Have you ever considered dating/marrying a homosexual person of the opposite gender ?

wakka12

To avoid discrimination. Im a gay male and I hadn't put much thought into it until yesterday when I was reading this question on yahoo answers and this gay guy in egypt was talking about how he married a lesbian egyptian girl because there was no chance that either the man or womans families would accept their homosexuality

. And I thought it seemed like a good idea seeing as I would like to have a family when Im older, and marrying a man wouldn't be accepted by my family even if I came out. Do you know anyone who has done this? I actually made an account on a lesbian site for this reason, lol creepy I know , but some girls I messaged actually said they'd be interested if push came to shove and family were urging them to settle down. Also got interest from some asexual girls or girls who want to marry a man but only for love and not anything sexual.

eviltwin

Live a life? No thanks.

gravehold

wakka12 wrote: »

To avoid discrimination. Im a gay male and I hadn't put much thought into it until yesterday when I was reading this question on yahoo answers and this gay guy in egypt was talking about how he married a lesbian egyptian girl because there was no chance that either the man or womans families would accept their homosexuality

. And I thought it seemed like a good idea seeing as I would like to have a family when Im older, and marrying a man wouldn't be accepted by my family even if I came out. Do you know anyone who has done this? I actually made an account on a lesbian site for this reason, lol creepy I know , but some girls I messaged actually said they'd be interested if push came to shove and family were urging them to settle down. Also got interest from some asexual girls or girls who want to marry a man but only for love and not anything sexual.

It's a fine plan if you want to lose half of your possessions and end up paying maintenance to a women cause you want to stay in a closet.

people think gays are making mockery of marriage already no need to give them more ammo

wakka12

gravehold wrote: »

It's a fine plan if you want to lose half of your possessions and end up paying maintenance to a women cause you want to stay in a closet.

people think gays are making mockery of marriage already no need to give them more ammo

What? she's gay too. Its a mutually beneficial agreement.

gravehold

wakka12 wrote: »

What? she's gay too. Its a mutually beneficial agreement.

What if she decides in a few years she is no longer afriad to be gay and want's to be with a girl publicly so divorces you and gets half your assets and maintenance.

You need to come to terms with your sexuality and not hide. First you are afraid of straight people so want to run away and create a place with no straight people and now have a fake marraige so people won't think you are gay.

A marraige based on a lie won't last

wakka12

gravehold wrote: »

What if she decides in a few years she is no longer afriad to be gay and want's to be with a girl publicly so divorces you and gets half your assets and maintenance.

You need to come to terms with your sexuality and not hide. First you are afraid of straight people so want to run away and create a place with no straight people and now have a fake marraige so people won't think you are gay.

A marraige based on a lie won't last

And what if she doesn't? Its a two way street. If she feels she is in such a hard situation that she ever enters into this marriage then I doubt shell ever be in the position to come out. And I have come to terms with my sexuality thanks, but my family won't accept be being in a relationship with a boy.

gravehold

wakka12 wrote: »

And what if she doesn't? Its a two way street. If she feels she is in such a hard situation that she ever enters into this marriage then I doubt shell ever be in the position to come out. And I have come to terms with my sexuality thanks, but my family won't accept be being in a relationship with a boy.

You told them you are gayand are out?

People change she might marry you now but get courage later to come out, what if you need to move for a job but she doesn't want to.

A marraige not based on love is doomed to fail and shows what you really think of the institute of marraige if you would marry someone to hide being gay.

wakka12

gravehold wrote: »

You told them you are gayand are out?

People change she might marry you now but get courage later to come out, what if you need to move for a job but she doesn't want to.

A marraige not based on love is doomed to fail and shows what you really think of the institute of marraige if you would marry someone to hide being gay.

Im out to some members of my family but they said they wouldn't accept me being in a relationship with a male. Well thats her problem isn't it. I could marry a person based completely on love and they could divorce me later because they no longer love me. Your point makes no sense.

And yes btw I think nothing of marriage. I think its all for show and unnecessary, what of it? I don't have to think of it as a sacred bond. Thats your opinion.

gravehold

wakka12 wrote: »

Im out to some members of my family but they said they wouldn't accept me being in a relationship with a male. Well thats her problem isn't it. I could marry a person based completely on love and they could divorce me later because they no longer love me. Your point makes no sense.

You want a Marraige based on nothing more then fear of what people think of you, marry for love not fear sure love might break down but it at least has a chance to last.

If you family know your gay a shame marriage while you have gay sex with men won't change their opinion of you.

eviltwin

gravehold wrote: »

You want a Marraige based on nothing more then fear of what people think of you, marry for love not fear sure love might break down but it at least has a chance to last.

If you family know your gay a shame marriage while you have gay sex with men won't change their opinion of you.

Is it any different to people who marry for money or status?

wakka12

gravehold wrote: »

You want a Marraige based on nothing more then fear of what people think of you, marry for love not fear sure love might break down but it at least has a chance to last.

If you family know your gay a shame marriage while you have gay sex with men won't change their opinion of you.

I told them Im bisexual. And I can marry for whatever reason I want thanks

gravehold

wakka12 wrote: »

I told them Im bisexual. And I can marry for whatever reason I want thanks

Are you though, if you are fine a real woman you love at least if you want to marry a woman, why try to marry a lesbian as a shame marriage

wakka12

gravehold wrote: »

Are you though, if you are fine a real woman you love at least if you want to marry a woman, why try to marry a lesbian as a shame marriage

No I'm gay. But telling my family I was bisexual softened the blow tremendously, trust me.

gravehold

wakka12 wrote: »

No I'm gay. But telling my family I was bisexual softened the blow tremendously, trust me.

So you havn't come to terms with your sexuality, gay people saying they are bi does a great disservice to the actual bi people.

Come to terms with being gay and lose the fear of what straight people think of you and your life will be better, talk to a your lgbt youth group or college group before getting onto a shame marraige with is doomed to fail and end up costing you a ton of money. Only marry for love soon that will be an option open for you.

wakka12

gravehold wrote: »

So you havn't come to terms with your sexuality, gay people saying they are bi does a great disservice to the actual bi people.

Come to terms with being gay and lose the fear of what straight people think of you and your life will be better, talk to a your lgbt youth group or college group before getting onto a shame marraige with is doomed to fail and end up costing you a ton of money. Only marry for love soon that will be an option open for you.

You don't know anything about my life. Some people can't come out. It does a great disservice to everyone who is in difficult situations with regards their sexuality by telling everyone they should come out. I have come to terms with my sexuality, its actually very rude to say that as its taken me years to do so. My family opinions of homosexuality have nothing to do with me accepting being gay. Now please stop, I know whats best for me, not you.

bjork

wakka12 wrote: »

....
. And I thought it seemed like a good idea seeing as I would like to have a family when Im older, .....

Is she supposed to bear your fruit aswell? How will that work?

wakka12

bjork wrote: »

Is she supposed to bear your fruit aswell? How will that work?

If we were both interested in having children you could easily work something out

bjork

wakka12 wrote: »

If we were both interested in having children you could easily work something out

So be gay when you're young and be heterosexual when you're older?


It's not the first time I've seen it happen tbh

gravehold

wakka12 wrote: »

You don't know anything about my life. Some people can't come out. It does a great disservice to everyone who is in difficult situations with regards their sexuality by telling everyone they should come out. I have come to terms with my sexuality, its actually very rude to say that as its taken me years to do so. My family opinions of homosexuality have nothing to do with me accepting being gay. Now please stop, I know whats best for me, not you.

You are telling people you are bi when you are gay, this is why people assume all bi men are gay cause people like you, I am saying come to terms with being gay then come out, stop lying to people that you are bi,think of a shame marraige to hide being gay is not coming to terms qith being gay.

You need to talk to someone a councillor or lgbt group about your hetrophobia, you think straight people are going to beat you up and want to run away to place with no straights. You have a irrational fear, straight people are not as bad as you think.


Mod edit: this poster is banned for a week for this personal abuse

ShoulderChip

I like how you are arguing so vehemently for something that you didn't ever think about before yesterday.

wakka12

bjork wrote: »

So be gay when you're young and be heterosexual when you're older?


It's not the first time I've seen it happen tbh

Well , thats the plan. But who knows..so much could change between now and the time when Im thinking about settling down.

wakka12

gravehold wrote: »

You are telling people you are bi when you are gay, this is why people assume all bi men are gay cause people like you, I am saying come to terms with being gay then come out, stop lying to people that you are bi,think of a shame marraige to hide being gay is not coming to terms qith being gay.

You need to talk to someone a councillor or lgbt group about your hetrophobia, you think straight people are going to beat you up and want to run away to place with no straights. You have a irrational fear, straight people are not as bad as you think.

I think you need to stop telling me what am I and what I should do

Also this is probably the tenth or so and last time Ill respond to you after accusing me of being a heterophobe yet again.

ShoulderChip

wakka12 wrote: »

I think you need to stop telling me what am I and what I should do

This is going to sound patronising but do me a favour, bookmark that post by you, maybe email it to yourself or archive it somewhere,

How amazing will it feel in ten years time when you wake up some day beside your man / partner /husband and take a look at it and see how foolish you were being now.

Now go make that happen, yeah sure you can have the ridiculous back up plan if things don't change in ten years time, there is some safety there, thats the worst that could happen, now go make the best happen even if you can think of a hundred reasons now why it wont.

wakka12

ShoulderChip wrote: »

This is going to sound patronising but do me a favour, bookmark that post by you, maybe email it to yourself or archive it somewhere,

How amazing will it feel in ten years time when you wake up some day beside your man / partner /husband and take a look at it and see how foolish you were being now.

Now go make that happen, yeah sure you can have the ridiculous back up plan if things don't change in ten years time, there is some safety there, thats the worst that could happen, now go make the best happen even if you can think of a hundred reasons now why it wont.

Well one can hope

pl4ichjgy17zwd

To be honest, this sounds like a bad idea for all involved, especially possible kids. By all means, if you decide to have kids with a friend in the future, I think that's great, but they shouldn't believe their parents are happily married and in love if they're not. What if they found out about other partners? What if one of your kids turned out to be gay, how would they feel if they found our their parents felt it should be hidden?

You yourself deserve better too. You are entitled to be happy. I understand family pressures, really I do, but definitely don't be aiming for this. I hope you're able to find someone you really love to settle down with and I wish you all the best in that endeavour.

wakka12

Valentin Immense Peddler wrote: »

To be honest, this sounds like a bad idea for all involved, especially possible kids. By all means, if you decide to have kids with a friend in the future, I think that's great, but they shouldn't believe their parents are happily married and in love if they're not. What if they found out about other partners? What if one of your kids turned out to be gay, how would they feel if they found our their parents felt it should be hidden?

You yourself deserve better too. You are entitled to be happy. I understand family pressures, really I do, but definitely don't be aiming for this. I hope you're able to find someone you really love to settle down with and I wish you all the best in that endeavour.

Thank you for your post
But what would be so bad about being with a woman whom I became very close with, like a sister. The only aspect missing between us would be sexual desire, most elderly couples are like this as in they're not physically attracted to each other.

pl4ichjgy17zwd

wakka12 wrote: »

Thank you for your post
But what would be so bad about being with a woman whom I became very close with, like a sister. The only aspect missing between us would be sexual desire, most elderly couples are like this as in they're not physically attracted to each other.

I suppose the way it limits your potential to be truly in love and share a life with a partner in that way. What would you do if you really fell in love with a man while in this marriage? They might not be okay with being kept a secret. They would likely not want the kind of limited relationship you'd be able to give. You're essentially setting yourself up for a romantic, loveless life. If it's what you and a woman choose, you'll make your own choice, but it seems very sad to sacrifice those opportunities for appearances.

(PS the elderly are the largest growing group of people contracting STDs so don't be so sure about that attraction thing )

Annasopra

wakka12 wrote: »

Thank you for your post
But what would be so bad about being with a woman whom I became very close with, like a sister. The only aspect missing between us would be sexual desire, most elderly couples are like this as in they're not physically attracted to each other.

I don't get it at all really.

To me it seems like forcing yourself into limiting your own happiness in order to make your parents happy.

You need to realise your family may be very unaccepting at this point in time but they may not always be unaccepting. Families change. I know lots of examples of parents who were very anti gay at first but are now tge complete opposite.

Also marriage is a contract. You could end up splitting up and then having to wait 4 years for a divorce and then pay financial maintenance.

Really this is something you need to think about in depth before considering it seriously. It may not be a bad idea if it works for you but honestly what if it doesn't; what it if you meet a man and want to marry and you have to wait 4 years, what if she meets someone?

J_E

Look, I'm open minded with my sexuality, but I don't think I am in-built to marry a woman regardless of sexual orientation unless we have an intense emotional bond. If you are not actually attracted to the opposite gender, I think it's just kidding yourself to please others and a very sad situation underneath it all. I just can't understand this argument really. I don't want to marry my friends for a reason regardless of closeness.

ongarboy

OP - You've said you know exactly what you want and are happy with it so why even bother creating this thread if you are going to reject anyone else's opinions or considerations that may offer an alternative view?

Out of interest, why are your family and their happiness more important than you and your happiness? Why should their happiness come before yours? Turn the tables - if you had a sister or brother who was gay, would you insist they only be with an opposite sex person despite the fact you know it would make them miserable? I would think not, so why is it acceptable the other way around?

What happens when your parents pass away? Do you keep up the charade for the sake of brothers and sisters or future nieces or nephews? Have you considered the constant resentment that will build up inside you as you observe all your siblings at family gatherings with their partners (sharing love and romance in the real sense) as well as seeing all your friends pair off into real relationships. Will none of that bother you? I wouldn't be surprised if many suicides were as a result of this type of double life that victims could no longer handle as it eats them up inside as to what they are denying themselves.

I'm sure many have done what you propose to do and there was a time when it seemed like there was no other option but I gaurantee you there are plenty of options in 2015. Don't be naive and choose a life of lies, selling yourself short and tolerance/existing rather than "living" and celebrating life. You've only one chance at life - don't waste it!

L1011

No, because I see absolutely no reason to live a lie to keep anyone else happy. Ever.

I also suspect it'd be the start of a long, slow road to fairly serious mental issues in time - for you, not the people you've done something fairly insane to keep happy.

kaloshma

Please don't do it. It is plain bad business.
You may try laying the ground work toward coming out. You could start with setting up gay porn on your mobile or laptop. Make sure family find it on your system e.t.c.
Suspicion plays important role in such situation, by that they are all half prepared for what is coming.

nozipcode

wakka12 wrote: »

If we were both interested in having children you could easily work something out

Having a marriage of convenience to suit your families expectations of you is one thing, but bringing kids into it is just WRONG.

nozipcode

wakka12 wrote: »

most elderly couples are like this as in they're not physically attracted to each other.

What? Where did you pull this nugget of wisdom from?

SpaceTime

You can see why this might be considered in extremely homophobic countries where bring unmarried and over a certain age seems to lead to serious problems.

Crazy world we live in!

Hopefully after the 22 in Ireland you'd just marry a homosexual person of the same gender thus avoiding an awful lot of complications!

wakka12

nozipcode wrote: »

Having a marriage of convenience to suit your families expectations of you is one thing, but bringing kids into it is just WRONG.

Why? We can be good parents without being romantically involved with each other you know.

J_E

wakka12 wrote: »

Why? We can be good parents without being romantically involved with each other you know.

I'm saddened and confused as to why you are so certain there is nothing wrong at the core with this. By all means, stay in denial if it's what you feel is best for you. This will ultimately hurt and affect those around you though.

wakka12

J_E wrote: »

I'm saddened and confused as to why you are so certain there is nothing wrong at the core with this. By all means, stay in denial if it's what you feel is best for you. This will ultimately hurt and affect those around you though.

Because I just want a normal life ok:( I know you all say being gay is normal but lets face it gay couples aren't considered normal and it'll be a while before they are..Id love to think gay famiies are whats considered normal by society but they're not

J_E

wakka12 wrote: »

Because I just want a normal life ok:( I know you all say being gay is normal but lets face it gay couples aren't considered normal and it'll be a while before they are..Id love to think gay famiies are whats considered normal by society but they're not

Your internalised homophobia doesn't make my life any less 'normal' than anyone elses. There are many couples and families who stood up for an authentic life and now command respect. This comment and thread is starting to really, really rile me up so I'll leave it there.

wakka12

J_E wrote: »

Your internalised homophobia doesn't make my life any less 'normal' than anyone elses. There are many couples and families who stood up for an authentic life and now command respect. This comment and thread is starting to really, really rile me up so I'll leave it there.

I never said I didn't think it was normal , I just said society doesn't consider gay couples normal
Id love to be with a man but I don't like being considered different to everybody else.

J_E

wakka12 wrote: »

I never said I didn't think it was normal , I just said society doesn't consider gay couples normal
Id love to be with a man but I don't like being considered different to everybody else.

This is something you have to come to terms with - I don't think anyone here has had it smoothly either but I think I can say we have all faced our demons and come out much better for it. What I really can't handle though is that you are seeing a false relationship as a solution (and no matter what you say, yes it is false if the sole basis of it is to appease others). Ireland has had enough married with kids who lie to themselves or are buried in shame and have homosexual affairs, or come out when a family has already been established causing a much more painful transition. Nobody here can tell you what to do but I think the general point is that it is a short-term fix with long-term consequences, and I think it's heartbreaking to even consider such a thing without sorting the core issues first.

Annasopra

wakka12 wrote: »

I never said I didn't think it was normal , I just said society doesn't consider gay couples normal
Id love to be with a man but I don't like being considered different to everybody else.

I'm genuinely saddened that you would supress your own happiness and allow it to be determined by a) your own families negativity and b) your perceptions of societal beliefs and stigmas. I say perceptions because I don't believe your assertions about society are generally true. Of course there is homophobia from a minority but in general Ireland has hugely moved on.

floggg

wakka12 wrote: »

Why? We can be good parents without being romantically involved with each other you know.

Can you be good parents while unhappy, resentful and feeling trapped into a life of somebody else's choosing.

OP it sounds like you don't want us to contradict you, and just wanted us to tell you how great an idea this was. But it's not.

Honestly, why would you sacrifice your chance of happiness for a family who value their prejudices more than your happiness?

At the end of the day you are free to do what you wish, but plenty of people have been down this path and it doesn't usually end very well at all.

floggg

wakka12 wrote: »

I never said I didn't think it was normal , I just said society doesn't consider gay couples normal
Id love to be with a man but I don't like being considered different to everybody else.

You know most of us had those same thoughts and fears at some point. But we also realised that we could never truly be happy living a lie.

In my case I was lucky that I realised it before things went very dark and scary. For others, they realised it too late and sacrificing your identity for others benefit can do some real nasty and unseen damage to your sense of self and well being.

But I can tell you know from the other side of the closet my life is pretty normal. Sure, there are moments when I realise I'm a minority here (mainly referendum related) but by and large my life is extremely normal.

I will admit I have a supportive and loving family which makes things easier. But I also knew coming out that if it came to it I would have to choose my own sanity and well being over them if they weren't willing to accept me.

Once you decide to be yourself and to surround yourself with people who will love and accept you for who your are (rather than who they want you to be) live quickly does become normal.

In fact, they whole gay thing is actually pretty mundane once you get used to it.

Kiwi in IE

wakka12 wrote: »

I never said I didn't think it was normal , I just said society doesn't consider gay couples normal
Id love to be with a man but I don't like being considered different to everybody else.

It's society that needs to change wakka12 not you and it is changing. Hopefully in a week and a half the country will prove that to you.

I have a six year old and although I had already talked to him a little bit about the fact that couples are sometimes man/man woman/woman, I had never mentioned the word gay to him. He is in the local Catholic National School and one day recently after I picked him up he said to me "Mummy, I know what gay is". Now to be honest my initial reaction was that my hackles raised and I thought 'WTF has that school been telling them'. I stayed calm however and asked him what is it. He responded "It's when a boy marries a boy or a girl marries a girl", very matter of fact, end of story. I was so relieved and immediately felt guilty for thinking badly of the school. He told me that an older child in the school had told him and his friends. This is the future, the Iona types are the past, so hang in there and don't compromise your happiness.

SpaceTime

I actually think this SSM debate might have actually woken up a lot of people up and made them think about the whole concept of being gay.

I think a lot of people are definitely opening their minds to the fact that Irish society includes a lot of gay people.

I just have this sense that assuming this passes it's a bit like the nation coming out of the closet and realising it's actually OK to admit and accept that a good % of us aren't straight.

Homophobic society basically is just a society in denial due to weird hang ups .

There's something very much more powerful about the population deciding this than it being passed by parliament or ruled by a court.

We're getting a huge opportunity to finally being the LGBT community out of the shadows and extend the national hug and make them feel warmly part of the broader Irish community.

wakka12

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

It's society that needs to change wakka12 not you and it is changing. Hopefully in a week and a half the country will prove that to you.

I have a six year old and although I had already talked to him a little bit about the fact that couples are sometimes man/man woman/woman, I had never mentioned the word gay to him. He is in the local Catholic National School and one day recently after I picked him up he said to me "Mummy, I know what gay is". Now to be honest my initial reaction was that my hackles raised and I thought 'WTF has that school been telling them'. I stayed calm however and asked him what is it. He responded "It's when a boy marries a boy or a girl marries a girl", very matter of fact, end of story. I was so relieved and immediately felt guilty for thinking badly of the school. He told me that an older child in the school had told him and his friends. This is the future, the Iona types are the past, so hang in there and don't compromise your happiness.

That story made me really happy

BattleCorp

Dude, you only have one life.

No point holding to a lie for the rest of your life to keep other people happy.

Live your live the way that makes you happy, don't try to live anybody else's.

wakka12

Welll just wanted to make a little update in case anyone cares at all haha I just feel like I need to tell somebody even if its online strangers! So I know this wasnt that long ago but Im really ashamed of myself for ever having been thinking this way, it just seems really sad to me to live a lie like this. The referendum win helped but Ive also met a guy, it seems almost too good to be true.

He's been my best friend since we started in college together and we both drunkenly came out to eachother recently while on holidays after much speculation on both ends over the last few months. But neither of us really had the courage to ask each other, turns out we both really liked each other and we've been seeing each other since we arrived home. At first it was awkward, having never thought of him in a sexual way before because he was always a good friend. But it looks like it could be a really great relationship , we have so much in common so all the ground works been covered.

Anyway, what I just wanted to say is that a life with another man seems like the right thing for me in the future, it just seems normal now and how it should be for me. I also feel blessed, I know how hard it is even for straight couples to find a guy or girl they care a lot about, so as a gay man I feel incredibly lucky.
Thank you to anybody who took the time to read i just really needed to get that off my chest

Pride Before Ignorance

A lot of the older generation kind of had a defacto form of this in Ireland. If a brother and sister were single and pushing on a bit in the country side they almost became like husband and wife in their later years (living in the same house etc.) but nothing sexual obviously.

It seems like a bit of a no brainer-share the bills, company, some level of extra security etc.

Based on the above I can't see why so many people are against the OPs idea to be honest.

Pride Before Ignorance

A lot of the older generation kind of had a defacto form of this in Ireland. If a brother and sister were single and pushing on a bit in the country side they almost became like husband and wife in their later years (living in the same house etc.) but nothing sexual obviously.

It seems like a bit of a no brainer-share the bills, company, some level of extra security etc.

Based on the above I can't see why so many people are against the OPs idea to be honest.

PS Really happy you met someone new OP!!!!!