New cyclist not impressed with other cyclists

Lombardo86

This morning had to have been the worst morning i have had since i started on the bike commute to work (Maybe 5 -6 months ago).

On two separate occasions, cyclists banged on the side of cars doors to let the drivers know they were in the cycle lane (broken line), one of which i then had the pleasure of cycling behind for a kilometer or two only to see him then break 2 separate red lights.

So this guy:
a) didn't know the rules regarding cycle lanes
b) didn't obey the rules he should know about driving / common sense

I consider myself a cyclist now - i wouldn't be getting back into the car for a commute anytime soon., however i have to say i am not one bit impressed by other cyclists on the road. There is a serious sense of entitlement about them (The minority ill admit - but a larger minority than there should be)

Edit: If somebody banged on my car door the way the cyclists did, i'm not too sure i would have been as quiet as this mornings recipients.

iwillhtfu

The world has plenty of ass holes of every variety all you can do is try not end up being one.

Safe cycling leave Karma do it's thing.

Lombardo86

iwillhtfu wrote: »

The world has plenty of ass holes of every variety all you can do is try not end up being one.

Safe cycling leave Karma do it's thing.

You sound like the voice of experience!

07Lapierre

What about all the other cyclists that do obey the ROTR? Why tar everyone with the one brush just because you witnessed TWO idiot cyclists?

YouTube is full of videos showing stupid drivers but there are plenty of good ones out there.

Lombardo86

07Lapierre wrote: »

What about all the other cyclists that do obey the ROTR? Why tar everyone with the one brush just because you witnessed TWO idiot cyclists?

YouTube is full of videos showing stupid drivers but there are plenty of good ones out there.

If you read the original post ill specifically call out they are in the minority.
Am i not allowed talk about my experience?

Boards.ie - discussion forum??

iwillhtfu

Lombardo86 wrote: »

You sound like the voice of experience!

There's plenty more in life to worry about try not get hung up on other people's stupidity

smacl

07Lapierre wrote: »

What about all the other cyclists that do obey the ROTR? Why tar everyone with the one brush just because you witnessed TWO idiot cyclists?

YouTube is full of videos showing stupid drivers but there are plenty of good ones out there.

Stupid behaviour stands out against a backdrop of normal behaviour, regardless of mode of transport.

doolox

Many see themselves as easy targets for guards, traffic wardens and other members of the public with whom they share the public space.

In any dispute between a motorist and a non-motorist it will always come down in favour of the non-motorist in terms of penalties and costs.

The motorist has an identity through his number plates and a licence which can be lost and an insurance record which can be tarnished and lead to extra costs. The cyclist and pedestrian do not have the same obligation to provide proof of identity etc. so can always avoid prosecution with a little subterfuge. Unless the guards are lucky enough to get a third party to identify a culprit and they are cute enough to say nothing they cant be identified and followed up unless the offence is serious enough to warrant extra effort by the guards. Kicking a door does not justify this effort.

I always make an effort to stay moving in traffic on narrow roads by coasting up slowly to traffic lights so as not to become a stationary target for such people. City centre is the worst and the narrow roads between Lucan and Castleknock are becoming bad for cyclists riding around at high speed, often breaking the speed limits of 30 or 50 at blind t junctions with no engine noise to warn you and undertaking stationary or crawling traffic on the inside at high speed. Such creatures make even left turns or pull ins a gamble.

07Lapierre

as iwollhtfu says, ignore them and try to enjoy your commute.. Life's too short.

Lombardo86

You are all very correct - and i'm not disputing that.

I am just shocked at that disregard for their own safety. I feel quite vulnerable on the bike myself as i don't trust a) other drivers b) pedestrians who don't seem to see cyclists c) don't trust car indicators

I make a point to be as safe as i can on the bike and i still feel at risk. I can only imagine the situations majority of these risk takers/red light breakers find themselves in.

sleepyheadh

That whole banging on the car door thing is just ridiculous..I think some people think they are NYC bike messengers on the daily commute. Just take it easy guys.

Talk about a distraction to a driver! Someone banging your door as you are trying to pay attention to the road.

smacl

Lombardo86 wrote: »

I am just shocked at that disregard for their own safety.

Darwin awards are always hotly contested. You do need to be an idiot to enter, so luckily the majority of us don't qualify.

JBokeh

Not sure is it the same cyclists, but if you go out for an exercise spin on a weekend morning you'll meet really nice lads out for a spin too, some will stay with you and have a chat, others will wish you well and carry on. Biggest arsehole I ever met on a weekend spin was a guy that didn't say hello as I passed him, but he looked really shocked to see me passing so I'll let it slide!

I've only cycled Cork city a few times, so i'm a bit nervous about it, but its the guys sitting half wheeling me or weaving around are the worst. Saw one fella overtake a stopped bus by just swinging into the other lane without looking over his shoulder, he nearly got taken out, and he did get honked at, then stopped dead and started roaring at the car. Thanks to that guy there is a few more people that think cyclists are dicks.

tunney

doolox wrote: »

Many see themselves as easy targets for guards, traffic wardens and other members of the public with whom they share the public space.

In any dispute between a motorist and a non-motorist it will always come down in favour of the non-motorist in terms of penalties and costs.

THis is pure sh1te.

"Sorry your honour I killed the cyclist I was playing with my radio there was sun in my eyes"

"Case dismissed"

doolox wrote: »

I always make an effort to stay moving in traffic on narrow roads by coasting up slowly to traffic lights so as not to become a stationary target for such people. City centre is the worst and the narrow roads between Lucan and Castleknock are becoming bad for cyclists riding around at high speed, often breaking the speed limits of 30 or 50 at blind t junctions with no engine noise to warn you and undertaking stationary or crawling traffic on the inside at high speed. Such creatures make even left turns or pull ins a gamble.

Speed limits do not apply to non motorised vehicles.

Maybe you should read up on then rules of the road? You seem rather ignorant of them.

tunney

Lombardo86 wrote: »

This morning had to have been the worst morning i have had since i started on the bike commute to work (Maybe 5 -6 months ago).

On two separate occasions, cyclists banged on the side of cars doors to let the drivers know they were in the cycle lane (broken line), one of which i then had the pleasure of cycling behind for a kilometer or two only to see him then break 2 separate red lights.

So this guy:
a) didn't know the rules regarding cycle lanes
b) didn't obey the rules he should know about driving / common sense

I consider myself a cyclist now - i wouldn't be getting back into the car for a commute anytime soon., however i have to say i am not one bit impressed by other cyclists on the road. There is a serious sense of entitlement about them (The minority ill admit - but a larger minority than there should be)

Edit: If somebody banged on my car door the way the cyclists did, i'm not too sure i would have been as quiet as this mornings recipients.

Personally I hate this time of year. People dust off the bikes, or buy new ones. "Become cyclists" and then ride their bikes completely ignorant of their surroundings and the consequences of their actions.

doolox

The ideal solution would be to have completely separate roads for cyclists and completely separate them from foot and motor transport. This costs money and will only happen if a way can be found to raise money from the cycling public that is realistic and enforceable, not easy things to do as many cyclists do not have a lot of money and are untraceable in practical terms.

The second best way would be a generally raised fund to make cycleways as a public benefit for all. The govt need to convince non-cyclists that is good for all transport users to have cyclists on a separate network physically separated from other users so that collisions with car/pedestrians etc are eliminated.

This will probably only happen as bikes become more common on our roads and cars become scarcer and more expensive and difficult to run and keep.

As the cycling population increases, cycling will become more "mainstream" and hopefully more influential.

Eventually, the govt may even invest in covered cycleways and even reduce or get rid of hills on cycle routes similar to the way engineers can use cuttings and viaducts to make train routes more level. Cost is a huge barrier to this and only dear oil and dear cars will make this happen.

By getting rid of rain, motor traffic and steep hills on main cycling commuter routes more people would be tempted to leave the car and take to the bike as the fears of getting wet, tired or knocked down would be removed from the bike equation for many of the less fitter people in our society.

Carlos Orange

07Lapierre wrote: »

Why tar everyone with the one brush just because you witnessed TWO idiot cyclists?

I think slightly more than 2 cyclists go through red lights. Its something I see everyday walking to work. At least the number cycling the wrong way down one way streets seems to be trending down. I don't think my brain will ever fully adjust to that.

07Lapierre

psinno wrote: »

I think slightly more than 2 cyclists go through red lights. Its something I see everyday walking to work. At least the number cycling the wrong way down one way streets seems to be trending down. I don't think my brain will ever fully adjust to that.

Agree, lots of idiots on the road.. what we need is better enforcement of our current road laws for all road users.

CramCycle

MOD VOICE: Just to nip it in the bud before it starts, if you have not read the forum charter before, read it before posing again. These threads can go well or they can go badly. Any breach of the forum charter going forward will be dealt with by cards and no warnings.

buffalo

doolox wrote: »

The govt need to convince non-cyclists that is good for all transport users to have cyclists

It would be good for everyone if more people cycled: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ireland-set-to-be-most-obese-country-in-europe-who-says-1.2201731

tomasrojo

Similarly, as an avid pedestrian, I am shocked on a daily basis by my fellow pedestrians.

bazermc

My crystal ball is telling me this thread will be locked by lunch time

sleepyheadh

bazermc wrote:

My crystal ball is telling me this thread will be locked by lunch time

Why is this going to be closed?

Lombardo86

Although i started it by venting - i think it will be closed because of the group just talking about x and y did a, b and c.

Perhaps we need to move towards how to fix/control/monitor/enforce etc

anncoates

If it's best to ignore stupidity on the roads (I completely agree) and accept it's a minority, does that means threads complaining about motorists and pedestrians will be frowned on, going forward?

seamus

The problem, ultimately is that many cyclists and practically all motorists consider cyclists to be nothing more than wheeled pedestrians. So to these cyclists, traffic laws are advisory suggestions, just like they are to pedestrians*. To other motorists, cyclists are an annoyance who need to keep off the road.

You need to learn to accept that other peoples' behaviour is beyond your ability to control. Like the car who drove straight through the red light at the canal at Baggot Street this morning through the green pedestrian light and didn't stop even when I had stepped out in front of him, and instead looked around him like I was crazy.

Just because you cycle a bike and the idiot in front of you cycles a bike, doesn't mean you belong to any kind of club or fraternity. When you're driving a car, you don't judge yourself by the standards of other drivers. When you're walking down the street, you don't judge yourself by the behaviour of other pedestrians. So when you're on a bike, don't allow the behaviour of others to reflect on you. Because it doesn't.

Everyone else is an idiot, no matter what mode of transport you're using.

*Yes, I know they're not, but to practically everyone in this country, traffic laws don't apply when you're walking

SteM

OP, what was the context of the cyclists banging on the car doors? I've seen cyclists so this before going along the canal but only when cars are pulling in on top of them without noticing them. Just because it's a broken line doesn't mean drivers shouldn't be mindful of cyclists already on their left.

Other than that I'd agree with you. My commute usually has me coming down the canal from rathmines to grand canal square at 7:30 and it's not too bad then but after 8am there are a lot more cyclists on the route and the behaviour of some of them is appalling.

Lombardo86

SteM wrote: »

OP, what was the context of the cyclists banging on the car doors? I've seen cyclists so this before going along the canal but only when cars are pulling in on top of them without noticing them. Just because it's a broken line doesn't mean drivers shouldn't be mindful of cyclists already on their left.

Other than that I'd agree with you. My commute usually has me coming down the canal from rathmines to grand canal square at 7:30 and it's not too bad then but after 8am there are a lot more cyclists on the route and the behaviour of some of them is appalling.

It was in Harolds Cross.. stationary car. Cyclist was catching up through the traffic. This car eventually would turn left and had its indicator on but was at a stand still.

The car itself was over the dotted cycle line but the cyclist was under the impression the car wasn't allowed in here at all, which infuriates me.

So once he caught up - he banged on the door aggressively pointing at the cycle lane and went on his way (To break more red lights :-))

Johnny Jukebox

I'd agree that pro-actively banging on a car door is provocative and only riles people up.

However, reactively banging on a car door when you are in genuine fear of being binned is totally justified - what else can you do to get the attention of a driver who is blissfully unaware of your presence in the cycle lane ?

Lombardo86

Johnny Jukebox wrote: »

I'd agree that pro-actively banging on a car door is provocative and only riles people up.

However, reactively banging on a car door when you are in genuine fear of being binned is totally justified - what else can you do to get the attention of a driver who is blissfully unaware of your presence in the cycle lane ?

Agree with that point 100%. Just wasn't applicable in this scenario.

CramCycle

SteM wrote: »

My commute usually has me coming down the canal from rathmines to grand canal square at 7:30 and it's not too bad then but after 8am there are a lot more cyclists on the route and the behaviour of some of them is appalling.

I have changed my route to avoid the bike path here, between the cars running reds, the silly light turn around times at the Mount St. junction, the cyclists who ride through pedestrians when they have a red or flashing amber, the cars who park on the pedestrian and bike path on the junction, the cars that sit on the yellow box, the pedestrians who fall into or run across traffic.

If I do use it, I stick to the road for safety.

They are, as always a minority, but the minority is so visible in this area for all types of transport, it is impossible to ignore.

This said, my hero at this junction if the 10yo kid who gently slaps the bonnet of any car parked on the ped crossing, dragging his hand across it and stands in front of any cyclist who dares move across the red bike light when he has a green. He usually follows it with a statement of "Thank you for stopping".

Keyboard warriors have nothing on this guy, I applaud him.

laraghrider

sleepyheadh wrote: »

Why is this going to be closed?

Because the cycling forum is supposed to be for fans of the sport and those who partake in it as a past-time/hobby. This thread is a commuting issue and as such should be placed in the commuting and transport thread. It's only going to go one way from what I've read and that's cyclists -v- cars -v- road tax. Would you go into the soccer forum to complain about the 4 kids playing ball at the end of the road and ultimately from that determine that all soccer players are lawless idiots?

Saipanne

Cyclists would behave a lot better of they could be easily identified, like motorists can.

But you'll never find support for that idea in this forum. Strange, that.

tomasrojo

laraghrider wrote: »

Because the cycling forum is supposed to be for fans of the sport and those who partake in it as a past-time/hobby.

That's not all that true though, despite this forum being categorised under "Sport". I do occasionally look over at the Commuter forums, but most "utility" cycling discussions end up here. They're pretty much the only threads I contribute to, as I have no interest in cycling as a sport, bar a mild desire to get the jokes here and over at bikesnobnyc's blog.

seamus

Saipanne wrote: »

Cyclists would behave a lot better of they could be easily identified, like motorists can.

Funny that being easily identifiable doesn't seem to cause any other class of road user to behave.

tomasrojo

Saipanne wrote: »

Cyclists would behave a lot better of they could be easily identified, like motorists can.

But you'll never find support for that idea in this forum. Strange, that.

You won't find any realistic interest in the idea anywhere. Even in Switzerland, they only ever registered the bicycle, not the user, and it was for purposes of raising revenue for insurance (and the practice was dropped in 2012).

They haven't even introduced such a thing in Australia, the cycling-suppressing paragon. It's just too much trouble for too little return.

CramCycle

laraghrider wrote: »

Because the cycling forum is supposed to be for fans of the sport and those who partake in it as a past-time/hobby. This thread is a commuting issue and as such should be placed in the commuting and transport thread. It's only going to go one way from what I've read and that's cyclists -v- cars -v- road tax. Would you go into the soccer forum to complain about the 4 kids playing ball at the end of the road and ultimately from that determine that all soccer players are lawless idiots?

MOD VOICE: You will find that the cycling forum covers all aspects of cycling, alot of the threads are commuting based, in fact alot of our regular posters only contribute to these style threads with many having no interest in the sporting side of things.

If you have an issue with a post report it giving clear reasons how you think it has broken the rules or why it is generally unsuitable

CramCycle

Saipanne wrote: »

Cyclists would behave a lot better of they could be easily identified, like motorists can.

But you'll never find support for that idea in this forum. Strange, that.

MOD VOICE: With a quick forum search you will find several threads discussing the issue, its pros, it's cons. Please have a read around before throwing generalisations.

smalltalk

Saipanne wrote: »

Cyclists would behave a lot better of they could be easily identified, like motorists can.

But you'll never find support for that idea in this forum. Strange, that.

Motorists can easily be identified and a minority still drive like idiots,I think we have established that a minority of road users are idiots and are a danger to themselves and others(road users=motorists+cyclists).I have no problem with some sort of I.D for cyclists.

bucketybuck

tunney wrote: »

Maybe you should read up on then rules of the road? You seem rather ignorant of them.

Or maybe he should become a cyclist, then he won't have to bother with them.

magicbastarder

Johnny Jukebox wrote: »

I'd agree that pro-actively banging on a car door is provocative and only riles people up.

a good few years back, cycling up the kilmacud road, i had to inch up past a car which was sitting about a foot from the kerb; as i passed, i tapped - and it was no more than a tap - the bonnet, and gestured to the driver that she should move out.
as luck would have it, i was knocked off my bike 500 yards further on, and while waiting for the cops to arrive, the motorist whose bonnet i tapped rolled up and accused me of assault. i was able to tell her that things were in hand, and that the police were already on their way. after her red mist dissipated, she scarpered before the cops arrived.

wrt40

magicbastarder wrote: »

a good few years back, cycling up the kilmacud road, i had to inch up past a car which was sitting about a foot from the kerb; as i passed, i tapped - and it was no more than a tap - the bonnet, and gestured to the driver that she should move out.
as luck would have it, i was knocked off my bike 500 yards further on, and while waiting for the cops to arrive, the motorist whose bonnet i tapped rolled up and accused me of assault. i was able to tell her that things were in hand, and that the police were already on their way. after her red mist dissipated, she scarpered before the cops arrived.

I'm not going to say serves you right, but wrap your knuckles on someone's car alone is enough to antagonise but to do it along with hand gestures and issuing instructions as if you have some sort of authority and really you only have yourself to blame for the outcome.

omri

You have good drivers that are aware of other road users and you have good cyclists that respect ROTR. It's the same the other way. You can't expect everyone to obey the rules, theres always a black sheep out there amongst the cyclists, bus drivers, taxi drivers and others. The hefty fines for breaking the red lights works on sensible people and it's up to everyone to use the common sense. I'd prefer to spend €750 on gear rather the fine and as a bonus I get a min or two to catch my breath

Being a cyclist and a driver gives a good perspective and lets you treat others the way you'd expect to be treated by other road users, whether you drive or cycle.

mcgratheoin

doolox wrote: »

the narrow roads between Lucan and Castleknock are becoming bad for cyclists riding around at high speed, often breaking the speed limits of 30 or 50 at blind t junctions with no engine noise to warn you and undertaking stationary or crawling traffic on the inside at high speed. Such creatures make even left turns or pull ins a gamble.

I cycle the Luttrellstown/Porterstown Road more or less every day between Lucan and Castleknock and I've never seen a cyclist breaking the 60kph speed limit there. To be fair, I've rarely seen a cyclist break a 50kph speed limit either - where in particular have you seen that?

With respect to the undertaking stationary traffic, or as i like to call it "filtering", I'd have to say things are pretty ok on that road from my point of view - there are only a few junctions where traffic builds up and most road users are courteous enough to either leave enough space for cyclists or to filter without banging on cars, I'm curious for more specifics on these "creatures" of which you speak...

magicbastarder

wrt40 wrote: »

you only have yourself to blame for the outcome.

i'm not sure what you mean; that by tapping on one motorists bonnet, i was to blame for being knocked down by a different motorist (who admitted full liability)?

magicbastarder

doolox wrote: »

the narrow roads between Lucan and Castleknock are becoming bad for cyclists riding around at high speed, often breaking the speed limits of 30 or 50 at blind t junctions with no engine noise to warn you

you're walking these roads?

jungleman

I love reading these cycling threads, but they always put the fear of god in me. I am terrified of cycling, scared shítless. I wouldn't even cycle to the shop 500m down the road. So I have a lot of respect for guys who cycle to work in Dublin CC, from my vantage point on Dublin Bus it seems like an absolute death-trap.

The quays are so narrow, and idiots always park or stop in the bus lane which forces the bus out into the middle lane and leaves hardly any space for cyclists.

Pedestrians (headphones in, usually) just blindly step out into traffic. They think because they can't hear a car engine that nothing is coming.

Taxi's (really not trying to generalise here), some of them have acute blindness when it comes to cyclists. Last Saturday across from Pearse St train station I saw a taxi just stop abruptly and pull in to pick up a fare; no indicator, no gradual reduction of speed, which nearly caused a mini pile up of cyclists behind him.


As a total outsider to the cycling world, I think city planning has to be responsible for any friction between cyclists and other road users. They introduced the bike-to-work scheme, and then the Dublin Bikes, and made absolutely no changes to the road networks to accommodate any extra cyclists in the city centre. It's only now that they are planning changes.

Anyways, stay safe out there, everyone.

Iwannahurl

Lombardo86 wrote: »

the rules regarding cycle lanes

What are the rules regarding cycle lanes, OP?

JBokeh

jungleman wrote: »

I love reading these cycling threads, but they always put the fear of god in me. I am terrified of cycling, scared shítless. I wouldn't even cycle to the shop 500m down the road. So I have a lot of respect for guys who cycle to work in Dublin CC, from my vantage point on Dublin Bus it seems like an absolute death-trap.

I was terrified of urban cycling, mainly because of being from the country, and also from reading the horror stories on here, and I've probably only done it 15 or so times, but it's not as bad as you'd think, most of it is a mental barrier as I found. after the 3rd time I got more confidence, and I didn't have to talk myself into doing it. First time I was expecting to be getting honked at, shouted at, swerved at and probably killed. I think i've developed a bit of a sense now for predicting where cars and busses are going. I'm still shaky, but I was a nervous wreck the first time!

Most of the horror stories are here because it is rare that someone will post about how great their commute into town was, but if they've a bad experience they'll post about it.

Chips Lovell

jungleman wrote: »

I am terrified of cycling, scared shítless. I wouldn't even cycle to the shop 500m down the road.

It's all perception really. I used to think that before I started cycling. Now I find it no more dangerous than driving.

If cycling were half as dangerous as it's made out by some people, nobody would cycle.

wpd

This morning had to have been the worst morning i have had since i started on the CAR commute to work

On two separate occasions, I saw 2 motorists driving while on mobile phones, doing their makeup while driving, changing lanes without indicating, one of which i then had the pleasure of driving behind for a kilometer or two only to see him then break 2 separate red lights.

So this guy:
a) didn't know the rules regarding driving on mobiles
b) didn't obey the rules he should know about driving / common sense

I consider myself a cyclist and a driver - i will be getting back into the car for a commute and sometime cycling., however i have to say i am not one bit impressed by other motorists on the road. There is a serious sense of entitlement about them (The minority ill admit - but a larger minority than there should be). In any case i will accept no one is perfect and life is too short to let the short comings of others affect my life.

Edit: If somebody banged on my car door the way the cyclists did while i was doing something stupid I would cop myself on.