2015 All-Ireland Senior Hurling Championship Discussion Thread

Fireball07

Not much talk about this, but the Leinster Championship round robin stage actually started today so definitely time for a discussion thread.

Antrim hit a last-minute goal to beat Laois in what sounded like a great game; 8 goals up in Ballycastle: Antrim 5-17 Laois 3-22. Laois had a pretty good year last year, they were a threat to the big teams but lost to Offaly in the league this year after beating them in 2014 and now they've lost to an Antrim team who got relegated from 1B. Don't know how they lined up today but apparently Matthew Whelan hadn't been hitting the same levels at centre-back and I think Brian Campion retired, who would be a big loss in the backs too, despite having someone like Zane Keenan involved.

Westmeath beat Carlow by 2 points aswell, 2-19 to 2-17, good win for them. As of now, you'd still make both Antrim & Laois the favourites to reach the quarter-final.


Overall, Paddy Power are giving the current odds as:

11/4- Kilkenny & Tipperary
13/2- Cork
7/1- Clare
15/2- Limerick & Waterford
11/1- Dublin
14/1- Galway
25/1- Wexford
325/1- Offaly
500/1- Antrim, Carlow, Laois & Westmeath


Seems fair enough, I would have made Tipp favourites simply because KK have lost JJ Delaney & Brian Hogan and they are two experienced, classy backs. The losses of Herrity, Walsh, Shefflin, Fogarty won't be as heavily felt but it does gnaw away at the depth. Tipp have now lost Noel McGrath though and he's a huge player too, so maybe having them level is now fair.

The odds on Dublin look a little short as they did have an impressive league campaign despite capitulating against Cork. Waterford's league victory is deservedly recognised. I do think that this will be a very open Championship though... even the likes of Wexford would fancy themselves beating any of the others in a one-off game; Clare have a point to prove, as do Cork & Limerick. It should be interesting.



As for provincial Championships:

Munster
11/8- Tipperary
3/1- Cork
7/2- Waterford
7/1- Clare
15/2- Limerick


Clare & Limerick obviously at significantly longer odds than Cork & Waterford because they have an extra round to get through and against the favourites Tipperary at that. It would seem that they make Cork & Clare slight favourites in those games, although have listed Clare & Limerick at evens so far.

Leinster
8/13- Kilkenny
4/1- Dublin
11/2- Galway
7/1- Wexford
50/1- Laois & Offaly
275/1- Antrim
500/1- Carlow & Westmeath

With Kilkenny odds-on to win Leinster, their might be some value there especially if someone like Dublin really target it. Last year KK drew with Galway so maybe Wexford (presuming they win their quarter-final) will fancy their chances in the semi-final.






I certainly can't wait for the 24th May, exams over, start of the Munster Championship; should be a cracker in Thurles with both Limerick & Clare having a lot to prove after disappointing league campaigns and both will fancy themselves as All-Ireland contenders too. Adding in the fact that they are neighbours and Limerick will feel they have something to prove after their failure to perform in 2013 and it should be an exciting clash if nothing else.

Fireball07

Could a mod please change 'Threat' to 'Thread' in the title?

Good win for Antrim, if they go on to win the group it sets them up for a shot at Offaly. If it was in Antrim you'd give them a chance as they were only pipped by Offaly at home last year but probably in Portlaoise so hard to see them getting a result.

Laois look to have lost the bit of impetus they had, also for a side hoping to make progress this is the 2nd year in a row they have fallen against their nearest rivals Antrim. They will probably be facing Wexford now, they beat them in the Walsh Cup but Wexford won well when they met in the league. Wexford had an ok league, will be interesting to see if they can push on this year.

Fireball07

Borders no.2 wrote: »

They will probably be facing Wexford now, they beat them in the Walsh Cup but Wexford won well when they met in the league. Wexford had an ok league, will be interesting to see if they can push on this year.

I would have said Wexford would have been very disappointed with their league. Losing to both their main threats, Limerick & Waterford. It seemed that against Limerick that they didn't seem to believe... Limerick scored 4 goals, seemed to score any time they wanted; Wexford threw away a lead and had Limerick rattled. And they were never in the game against Waterford.

So, despite giving Cork a game, they also fell away badly there and after a good year in 2014, beating Clare & Waterford, their league was not of the same standard.


I'd still say they should beat Laois who also had a poor league and maybe that can get Wexford in order. By all accounts, Wexford were hammered by Clare in a challenge game recently too (although hard to read into them).

Deedsie

Borders no.2 wrote: »

Good win for Antrim, if they go on to win the group it sets them up for a shot at Offaly. If it was in Antrim you'd give them a chance as they were only pipped by Offaly at home last year but probably in Portlaoise so hard to see them getting a result.

Laois look to have lost the bit of impetus they had, also for a side hoping to make progress this is the 2nd year in a row they have fallen against their nearest rivals Antrim. They will probably be facing Wexford now, they beat them in the Walsh Cup but Wexford won well when they met in the league. Wexford had an ok league, will be interesting to see if they can push on this year.

Very harsh on Antrim always travelling. Would they ever consider playing it in Louth? More neutral than Portlaoise?

poolboy

Deedsie wrote: »

Very harsh on Antrim always travelling. Would they ever consider playing it in Louth? More neutral than Portlaoise?

They played Laois in Antrim.

PlayByTheRules

I see JJ Delaney in his first role as a pundit is going for Tipp this year. I think if someone else takes care of KK, Tipp will have a great chance. Be nice to see Wexford compete with KK somewhat when they meet this year.

PTH2009

I dont think Kilkenny will retain this year

Munster

I think Clare will win it. They will beat Limerick in the Quarter final and Beat Tipp in the semi final. Cork i think will improve a lot from the league final and will beat Waterford in the semi final. Clare vs Cork final in Limerick with Clare Winning.

Leinster

I think Its Dublins year. It will be a tough Quarter final for them against Galway but home advantage will count for them. They should have enough in the semi final to beat Offaly/Group winners. Wexford should be too strong for the group runners up and will give Kilkenny a good game but home advantage will count and Kilkenny will just about overcome the challenge.I think Antrim and Laois will come through the group stage. Dublin vs Kilkenny final with the Dubs winning. Leinster is tight this year i would not be surprised if Galway beat Dublin and Wexford beat Kilkenny.

All Ireland

With my predictions in the Qualifers the teams wil be Limerick, Tipp, Waterford and Laois in one side and Antrim, Galway, Wexford and Offaly in the other. It really depends on the draw but i think Limerick, Tipp, Galway and Wexford will come through round 1 and if they seperated Tipp and Galway will go through to the Quarter Finals. The All ireland Quarter finals will look like this Cork vs Galway, Tipp vs Kilkenny. I can see the semi finals looking like this Galway vs Clare and Tipp vs Dublin with the All ireland final being Clare vs Tipp with Tipp winning

Deise_2012

PTH2009 wrote: »

I dont think Kilkenny will retain this year

Munster

I think Clare will win it. They will beat Limerick in the Quarter final and Beat Tipp in the semi final. Cork i think will improve a lot from the league final and will beat Waterford in the semi final. Clare vs Cork final in Limerick with Clare Winning.

Leinster

I think Its Dublins year. It will be a tough Quarter final for them against Galway but home advantage will count for them. They should have enough in the semi final to beat Offaly/Group winners. Wexford should be too strong for the group runners up and will give Kilkenny a good game but home advantage will count and Kilkenny will just about overcome the challenge.I think Antrim and Laois will come through the group stage. Dublin vs Kilkenny final with the Dubs winning. Leinster is tight this year i would not be surprised if Galway beat Dublin and Wexford beat Kilkenny.

All Ireland

With my predictions in the Qualifers the teams wil be Limerick, Tipp, Waterford and Laois in one side and Antrim, Galway, Wexford and Offaly in the other. It really depends on the draw but i think Limerick, Tipp, Galway and Wexford will come through round 1 and if they seperated Tipp and Galway will go through to the Quarter Finals. The All ireland Quarter finals will look like this Cork vs Galway, Tipp vs Kilkenny. I can see the semi finals looking like this Galway vs Clare and Tipp vs Dublin with the All ireland final being Clare vs Tipp with Tipp winning

If that happens I'll give you my house, my car, my dog, everything! You're from Waterford and after seeing them win the league, you have them down to not win a match for the rest of the year? Kilkenny to be knocked out at the 1/4 final? Behave

Fireball07

I can't see Galway doing much tbh and I don't see Clare beating Tipp if they do beat Limerick. Maybe later in the year but I think Tipp would be well-suited to taking on Clare. I could see Limerick beating Tipp, just because they have had the beating of them in the past couple of years; they have tended to win the midfield battle but I can't see Clare beating them there without Galvin.

Hard to know between Cork and Waterford. I could see Dublin winning Leinster alright, but I'd be really really shocked if KK went out at the quarter-final stage unless they were to come up against Tipperary. Maybe Clare or Limerick could beat them at the top of their game, but if they are playing them there that means they've lost a game already.

But it is very hard to call the whole thing, there should be some great matches this year. Last year, the two finals were great and the KK-Limerick semi-final game was very good but there were a lot of very one-sided games. The other semi-final, both quarter-finals, the Leinster final; the Munster final was a decent game but not top-level intensity and the Wexford-Clare games were exciting but really poor quality tbh. Such bad shooting.


I think most teams are closer this year- Dublin & Waterford will be better, you'd think that Clare will be too and maybe Cork & Limerick will be.

redlead

It's impossible to predict really. Kilkenny, Tipp, Waterford, Dublin and Clare all very even at the moment. Limerick Galway and Cork maybe just a little behind them.

I think Clare are going to improve a lot this year and are almost coming in under the radar considering that they were All Ireland champs two years ago. I think they'll beat Limerick and catch Tipp out cold. They'll probably meet Waterford in the Munster final who would be disappointed not to beat Cork. Munster final could be real close, couldn't call it.

Kilkenny have an easy enough draw and will meet Dublin in the Leinster final. I think that's an easy enough matching to call.Kilkenny to win that.

Semis will be Kilkenny, Tipperary, Clare and Waterford I think. Can't call any of them which makes this championship so great. Can't wait.

Utopia Parkway

Fireball07 wrote: »

I can't see Galway doing much tbh

That's usually when we have a decent year. Not that I'm expecting one.

Can't look beyond KK and Tipp again this year and I think Clare might bounce back a little as well. Can't see winners outside those.

HatchetMan7

On paper it does look fairly even. Kilkenny and Tipp with overall stronger panels and experience. I would put Clare, Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Waterford fairly even. Limerick are trying to peak later in the championship IMO, so they may not beat Clare but they will be hard to beat when all their players are back and fit later on in the year. Its hard to predict what Clare are going to do this year but i wouldn't be surprised to see them playing in September. I think Wexford will be a tough game for anyone but IMO their half forward line looks a little weak compared to the rest of their team.
I see Kilkenny and Dublin in the Leinster final which could go either way. I think Clare will beat Limerick because Clare are a little fitter at this time of the year. Clare/Limerick v Tipp is a 50/50 due to the fact that Clare/Limerick have a game under their belt. Waterford v Cork is very hard to call. Before the League final i thought that Waterford would win the league final and Cork would win the championship game but Cork have some issues with their defence and If Harnedy is out through injury, its a huge advantage for Waterford. As for Galway i just think that they don't have enough pace in the forward line like previous Galway teams. They have alot of big men upfront but every team needs at least 2/3 quick forwards. All in all it should be a great championship with plenty of games won or lost in the last 5 minutes.

Fireball07

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

That's usually when we have a decent year. Not that I'm expecting one.

Can't look beyond KK and Tipp again this year and I think Clare might bounce back a little as well. Can't see winners outside those.

That is true, but I just don't see enough really talented hurlers on the level that some of the other teams have. Obviously, you have a few but there are some severe weaknesses. I think with a better manager, you'd make better use of the resources you do have though.

Deise_2012

Fireball07 wrote: »

That is true, but I just don't see enough really talented hurlers on the level that some of the other teams have. Obviously, you have a few but there are some severe weaknesses. I think with a better manager, you'd make better use of the resources you do have though.

How has Cunningham managed to stay this long? I thought for sure they would have got rid of him last year

redlead

Fireball07 wrote: »

That is true, but I just don't see enough really talented hurlers on the level that some of the other teams have. Obviously, you have a few but there are some severe weaknesses. I think with a better manager, you'd make better use of the resources you do have though.

Galway just don't have the players at the moment to compete with some of the other teams. Despite this, the lazy media will still be asking questions like "what's up with Galway"? as if they were Kilkenny on a bad run of form. On top of that the majority of the team just don't have any stomach for a fight. You know if you get a few scores on them the game is pretty much over. People can blame Cunningham all they want but some of the players need to take a long hard look in the mirror too. There's no shame in losing but a lot of the time they look like they don't care and are just going through the motions.

donnem33

Deise_2012 wrote: »

How has Cunningham managed to stay this long? I thought for sure they would have got rid of him last year

Same could be said with O'Shea with Tipperary. One big win against Galway last year saved him - and if Galway had beaten Tipp there would be no talk about them being All Ireland contenders this year!!

Its all about momentum and confidence and all it takes it one big win for a team to get on a roll and they become hard to beat!

Cats fur sale

People writing Galways obituaries here seem a bit presumptuous.

Realt Dearg Sec

Cats fur sale wrote: »

People writing Galways obituaries here seem a bit presumptuous.

In fairness it's never too early to get a start on something you'll have to do eventually anyway.

jkiamasnake

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

In fairness it's never too early to get a start on something you'll have to do eventually anyway.

Just like thinking referees are against you purposely? :P

Realt Dearg Sec

jkiamasnake wrote: »

Just like thinking referees are against you purposely? :P

When did I ever say that?

Deise_2012

donnem33 wrote: »

Same could be said with O'Shea with Tipperary. One big win against Galway last year saved him - and if Galway had beaten Tipp there would be no talk about them being All Ireland contenders this year!!

Its all about momentum and confidence and all it takes it one big win for a team to get on a roll and they become hard to beat!

Ah but O'Shea was only on his 2nd year last year, the first year they lost to Limerick and then had KK in Nowlan park in the qualifiers....you can be forgiven for that. If they had lost to Galway in the qualifiers, for sure he would be given the P45, but they went on and played magnificent hurling for the rest of the year.

I know it's about momentum and confidence, but Galway haven't made progress since 2012. In saying that, I think they'll beat Dublin, everyone tipping Dublin to win, Galway will love that

glasagusban

Limerick and Galway being very underrated here. Limerick two points off the eventual winners last year in a game where there was very little to separate the two. Galway close to pipping Tipp last year and as one poster said the momentum that would have generated could have seen them do anything... Dublin and Waterford highly rated on the basis of league form, not sure that's not a little misplaced, I'd still rank galway and limerick ahead of both.

Mountainlad

In fairness, the conditions suited Limerick down to the ground. They were competitive and fairplay, but they didn't win the game. Waterford drew with Kilkenny in 2013, but we still haven't beaten them 55 years, that doesn't change on account of a good performance against them. Wouldn't write anyone off solely based on the league but Limerick need to drive on from last year, especially up front.

But how can anyone still rate Galway? They had one good year. They haven't beaten Waterford in the championship in 12 attempts so I'll believe it when I see it. Dublins form in the last few years is an even better comparison. They were in a Leinster final last year (Galway were not) they won Leinster the year before (beating Galway handy in the final). Galway have won two games in the last two years, both scraping home against Laois. Waterford annihilated Laois last year without even playing well. They did not nearly beat Tipp last year, they were bet comfortably enough in the end. You can talk about what the score was on 55-60 mins but a game is 70 minutes long and you're only as good as the score after. Was it 2006 or 2007 they played Kilkenny and we heard the same thing when Brennan got two late goals. They didn't achieve much in the immediate aftermath of that either.

Sorry to any Galway people, but as an outside observer ye seem to be as fed up with them being hyped up for a fall as anyone.

glasagusban

Mountainlad wrote: »

In fairness, the conditions suited Limerick down to the ground. They were competitive and fairplay, but they didn't win the game. Waterford drew with Kilkenny in 2013, but we still haven't beaten them 55 years, that doesn't change on account of a good performance against them. Wouldn't write anyone off solely based on the league but Limerick need to drive on from last year, especially up front.

But how can anyone still rate Galway? They had one good year. They haven't beaten Waterford in the championship in 12 attempts so I'll believe it when I see it. Dublins form in the last few years is an even better comparison. They were in a Leinster final last year (Galway were not) they won Leinster the year before (beating Galway handy in the final). Galway have won two games in the last two years, both scraping home against Laois. Waterford annihilated Laois last year without even playing well. They did not nearly beat Tipp last year, they were bet comfortably enough in the end. You can talk about what the score was on 55-60 mins but a game is 70 minutes long and you're only as good as the score after. Was it 2006 or 2007 they played Kilkenny and we heard the same thing when Brennan got two late goals. They didn't achieve much in the immediate aftermath of that either.

Sorry to any Galway people, but as an outside observer ye seem to be as fed up with them being hyped up for a fall as anyone.

I'd say galway's last 12 games v kk are far more relevant than their last 12 v Waterford. They probably have a better record than Tipp for playing kk.

GerB40

glasagusban wrote: »

I'd say galway's last 12 games v kk are far more relevant than their last 12 v Waterford. They probably have a better record than Tipp for playing kk.

I don't mean to sound petty but does a good record vs any team matter if there's no silverware to show for it? After all, isn't that the aim of inter county hurling?

Fireball07

redlead wrote: »

Galway just don't have the players at the moment to compete with some of the other teams. Despite this, the lazy media will still be asking questions like "what's up with Galway"? as if they were Kilkenny on a bad run of form. On top of that the majority of the team just don't have any stomach for a fight. You know if you get a few scores on them the game is pretty much over. People can blame Cunningham all they want but some of the players need to take a long hard look in the mirror too. There's no shame in losing but a lot of the time they look like they don't care and are just going through the motions.

I would agree that Galway don't seem to have enough of the players. But I think they could play a game that suited the players that they do have better.

You always hear reports that some Galway players care a lot more about their club than county and about divisions between particular clubs. I don't know if it's true but it can't help.



But yeah, at the moment, look at the Galway team... do they have the players to beat big teams in the heat of Championship? I don't see it tbh. I think it's completely fair to write them off and it's up to them to prove people wrong.

Utopia Parkway

Cats fur sale wrote: »

People writing Galways obituaries here seem a bit presumptuous.

Normally yes but it looks like Conor Cooney could miss the entire championship now with injury. Was arguably Galway's best player last year. Not sure I could see them coming back from that given everything else that's going on there. Even a big Galway style ambush of someone looks unlikely at this stage. But sure you never know with them. One thing they have going for them is there is absolutely zero positive hype about them this year. If anything the hype is very negative.

glasagusban

GerB40 wrote: »

I don't mean to sound petty but does a good record vs any team matter if there's no silverware to show for it? After all, isn't that the aim of inter county hurling?

Fair point. Just pointing out Galway's record against Waterford is irrelevant.

blue note

People are always saying that Galway have the players. Then when asked what players from them would improve your own team the answer is usually Joe Canning and then some searching for another couple to name. There are a few guys that would get into other teams starting line-ups alright, but not many that would really improve other teams.

Connorzee

All this talk of Galway... is this an All Ireland thread or a Christy Ring cup thread? Galway havent a hope. Joe Canning will go down as a pub quiz question, one of the best to never win an AI.

As for the championship, i'm hoping for a good summer of it once it really gets going. I'll predict a Tipp v Waterford AI final.

Fireball07

blue note wrote: »

People are always saying that Galway have the players. Then when asked what players from them would improve your own team the answer is usually Joe Canning and then some searching for another couple to name. There are a few guys that would get into other teams starting line-ups alright, but not many that would really improve other teams.

Even Canning could be better than he has been, although it must be hard dragging a team along. Johnny Glynn is an unbelievable ballwinner but is he a great hurler?

I do like Daithi Burke, Johnny Coen is talented, good in a sweeping role. Some of their players were great at underage level but haven't completely stepped up, looking at the likes of Niall Burke- clearly a good player but fades in and out of games. Jason Flynn, Padraig Brehony, a few others like that... good but not top class.

thinkstoomuch1

Connorzee wrote: »

All this talk of Galway... is this an All Ireland thread or a Christy Ring cup thread? Galway havent a hope. Joe Canning will go down as a pub quiz question, one of the best to never win an AI.

As for the championship, i'm hoping for a good summer of it once it really gets going. I'll predict a Tipp v Waterford AI final.

I'd agree with most of that but not all
Cunningham is good manager but outgrown Galway
Waterford haven't a hope getting to the all Ireland final imo way way over rated
Very much working in progress
Any time they won league failed dismally in championship as stats proved
Kk and clare are miles ahead of them
Most of this waterford team linked to clare in similarity won nothing under age clare had so still lot too prove


Kk we'll used to beating the sweeper as beat Dublin and clare twice and Waterford who despite this myth as o Connor said today paper haven't invented new system in same Galway three years ago and clsre have but clare more refined than Galway and Waterford defensive side while good is like Galway limited counter attack unlike clare brilliant style

Clare would out shoot waterford easily and all league and twice knowlan park had huge scores so would imo expose waterford defence at full back in tipperary got them for two goals and cork created two goal chances

Deise_2012

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I'd agree with most of that but not all
Cunningham is good manager but outgrown Galway
Waterford haven't a hope getting to the all Ireland final imo way way over rated
Very much working in progress
Any time they won league failed dismally in championship as stats proved
Kk and clare are miles ahead of them
Most of this waterford team linked to clare in similarity won nothing under age clare had so still lot too prove


Kk we'll used to beating the sweeper as beat Dublin and clare twice and Waterford who despite this myth as o Connor said today paper haven't invented new system in same Galway three years ago and clsre have but clare more refined than Galway and Waterford defensive side while good is like Galway limited counter attack unlike clare brilliant style

Clare would out shoot waterford easily and all league and twice knowlan park had huge scores so would imo expose waterford defence at full back in tipperary got them for two goals and cork created two goal chances

The last time we won the league, 2007....We won Munster and got beaten in the AI semi final. Where you getting those stats?

Realt Dearg Sec

Fireball07 wrote: »

Some of their players were great at underage level but haven't completely stepped up.

Galway in a nutshell. That sentence could describe Galway for about 25 years now.

jkiamasnake

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

When did I ever say that?

It wasnt directly related to you persay..just a tongue in cheek comment about kk people

I dont understand how Galway, Limerick and Waterford are being so hyped up!

Galway have such notions both in hurling and football and always end up getting destroyed when they after beaten after a 2 game winning streak. However as another poster alluded to - the year they are written off is usually the year they end up in the final. And lose.

Limerick is always good to flop as soon as they get into croker. Also, theyve had a dreadful league. Fair enough they won Munster 2 years ago, but it Horgan wasnt wrongly sent off - would they have beaten cork? I dont think so. They wont do anything this year!

Waterford - even their own supporters at the beginning of the league were not fully confident of gaining promotion yet now that they won it they re expecting all irelands! Cork will beat them in the first game!

The semi finalists will be Kk, Tipp and 2 from Clare, Dublin, Cork, Galway, Waterford, Limerick and Wexford. There really is nothing between these teams. As some other poster stated all it takes is one big win, stay injury free and all of the above teams will fancy their chances of going all the way.

I just hope for the games sake that new teams come along and come august that Cork, Tipp or Kilkenny will be even in the semi finals! I can always dream anyway!

Realt Dearg Sec

jkiamasnake wrote: »

It wasnt directly related to you persay..just a tongue in cheek comment about kk people

I dont understand how Galway, Limerick and Waterford are being so hyped up!

Galway have such notions both in hurling and football and always end up getting destroyed when they after beaten after a 2 game winning streak. However as another poster alluded to - the year they are written off is usually the year they end up in the final. And lose.

Limerick is always good to flop as soon as they get into croker. Also, theyve had a dreadful league. Fair enough they won Munster 2 years ago, but it Horgan wasnt wrongly sent off - would they have beaten cork? I dont think so. They wont do anything this year!

Waterford - even their own supporters at the beginning of the league were not fully confident of gaining promotion yet now that they won it they re expecting all irelands! Cork will beat them in the first game!

The semi finalists will be Kk, Tipp and 2 from Clare, Dublin, Cork, Galway, Waterford, Limerick and Wexford. There really is nothing between these teams. As some other poster stated all it takes is one big win, stay injury free and all of the above teams will fancy their chances of going all the way.

I just hope for the games sake that new teams come along and come august that Cork, Tipp or Kilkenny will be even in the semi finals! I can always dream anyway!

Ah, I knew you were only joking.

As to your analysis though, far too harsh on Limerick, they were clearly a better side last year than they were the year before. I expect that trend to continue and I wouldn't read a jot into the league. I don't think Waterford people are expecting all Irelands, certainly that's not what I've seen. They were coming off the back of a terrible year, and needed to show early signs of progress. They targeted the league and have had great success crowding midfield to ensure possession and play percentages. How far that gets them in summer is another matter, but I don't see anything in Cork's performance in the league final to indicate that they will be show-ins in that opening game. They looked unfit, and lacking in sharpness. The championship was too close at that point to say they were keeping it in the tank. And anyway that wouldn't explain their horrible shooting, for example.

Still hard to look past Tipp and KK, the but there's nothing in what they've produced so far this year that leads me to believe they are way out in front of the rest, and in fact I expect one or other to be taken out by the teams just behind them.

thinkstoomuch1

Deise_2012 wrote: »

The last time we won the league, 2007....We won Munster and got beaten in the AI semi final. Where you getting those stats?

Fair point I suppose

My wording was not perfect but I responding to waterford being all Ireland finalist as poster predicted as such
I don't see it myself at all just my opinion
Be very lucky to beat cork again
Qualifier could be help for ye more games
Imo kilkenny clare tipp the front runners , tipp won't beat KK though


There's a gap for top four team with Dublin in transition, Galway huge problems , limerick having talent but questions remain over their system and manager, cork full back and subs bench
Imo however while cork are not all Ireland contenders would be ahead of others

Deise_2012

jkiamasnake wrote: »

It wasnt directly related to you persay..just a tongue in cheek comment about kk people

I dont understand how Galway, Limerick and Waterford are being so hyped up!

Galway have such notions both in hurling and football and always end up getting destroyed when they after beaten after a 2 game winning streak. However as another poster alluded to - the year they are written off is usually the year they end up in the final. And lose.

Limerick is always good to flop as soon as they get into croker. Also, theyve had a dreadful league. Fair enough they won Munster 2 years ago, but it Horgan wasnt wrongly sent off - would they have beaten cork? I dont think so. They wont do anything this year!

Waterford - even their own supporters at the beginning of the league were not fully confident of gaining promotion yet now that they won it they re expecting all irelands! Cork will beat them in the first game!

The semi finalists will be Kk, Tipp and 2 from Clare, Dublin, Cork, Galway, Waterford, Limerick and Wexford. There really is nothing between these teams. As some other poster stated all it takes is one big win, stay injury free and all of the above teams will fancy their chances of going all the way.

I just hope for the games sake that new teams come along and come august that Cork, Tipp or Kilkenny will be even in the semi finals! I can always dream anyway!

I love the way everyone is saying Waterford people are expecting All Ireland's. We enjoyed last Sunday and got excited about the prospects we have this year. We haven't been to Croke Park in a few years so it would be nice to get there. If we do, who knows? But we're definitely not expecting AI's......If you win the league and go unbeaten, and hammer Cork out the gate... we were hardly going to spend last Sunday night talking about our potential teams in the qualifiers...dream big!

thinkstoomuch1

jkiamasnake wrote: »

It wasnt directly related to you persay..just a tongue in cheek comment about kk people

I dont understand how Galway, Limerick and Waterford are being so hyped up!

Galway have such notions both in hurling and football and always end up getting destroyed when they after beaten after a 2 game winning streak. However as another poster alluded to - the year they are written off is usually the year they end up in the final. And lose.

Limerick is always good to flop as soon as they get into croker. Also, theyve had a dreadful league. Fair enough they won Munster 2 years ago, but it Horgan wasnt wrongly sent off - would they have beaten cork? I dont think so. They wont do anything this year!

Waterford - even their own supporters at the beginning of the league were not fully confident of gaining promotion yet now that they won it they re expecting all irelands! Cork will beat them in the first game!

The semi finalists will be Kk, Tipp and 2 from Clare, Dublin, Cork, Galway, Waterford, Limerick and Wexford. There really is nothing between these teams. As some other poster stated all it takes is one big win, stay injury free and all of the above teams will fancy their chances of going all the way.

I just hope for the games sake that new teams come along and come august that Cork, Tipp or Kilkenny will be even in the semi finals! I can always dream anyway!

Good astute assement
I'd agree with most of that

Mountainlad

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Fair point I suppose

My wording was not perfect but I responding to waterford being all Ireland finalist as poster predicted as such
I don't see it myself at all just my opinion
Be very lucky to beat cork again
Qualifier could be help for ye more games
Imo kilkenny clare tipp the front runners , tipp won't beat KK though


There's a gap for top four team with Dublin in transition, Galway huge problems , limerick having talent but questions remain over their system and manager, cork full back and subs bench
Imo however while cork are not all Ireland contenders would be ahead of others

It wasn't wording, you were just wrong. The only other time bar 2007 that we won the league was 1963, when we lost the all Ireland to Kilkenny after a replay. You said stats proved we always had a bad championship. Hold your hand up

donnem33

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Ah, I knew you were only joking.

As to your analysis though, far too harsh on Limerick, they were clearly a better side last year than they were the year before. I expect that trend to continue and I wouldn't read a jot into the league. I don't think Waterford people are expecting all Irelands, certainly that's not what I've seen. They were coming off the back of a terrible year, and needed to show early signs of progress. They targeted the league and have had great success crowding midfield to ensure possession and play percentages. How far that gets them in summer is another matter, but I don't see anything in Cork's performance in the league final to indicate that they will be show-ins in that opening game. They looked unfit, and lacking in sharpness. The championship was too close at that point to say they were keeping it in the tank. And anyway that wouldn't explain their horrible shooting, for example.

Still hard to look past Tipp and KK, the but there's nothing in what they've produced so far this year that leads me to believe they are way out in front of the rest, and in fact I expect one or other to be taken out by the teams just behind them.

Good analysis...I would have similar views!! On any given day, all of the top 8 teams would fancy their chances and there is very little between them! Im sure we all agree on hoping for the continued trend of a good open exciting championship!

thinkstoomuch1

Mountainlad wrote: »

It wasn't wording, you were just wrong. The only other time bar 2007 that we won the league was 1963, when we lost the all Ireland to Kilkenny after a replay. You said stats proved we always had a bad championship. Hold your hand up

Look I said it wording and in response to waterford being all Ireland finalist no would not happen
Yes 1963 was great waterford never even came in to the debate with me that regard


Simply point was 2007 waterford didn't get all Ireland final after league and what very good team was huge disappointed for them but thankfully and like many cork men were delighted when got to all Ireland year later under Davy Fitzgerald

Deise_2012

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Look I said it wording and in response to waterford being all Ireland finalist no would not happen
Yes 1963 was great waterford never even came in to the debate with me that regard


Simply point was 2007 waterford didn't get all Ireland final after league and what very good team was huge disappointed for them but thankfully and like many cork men were delighted when got to all Ireland year later under Davy Fitzgerald

That wasn't your point !!! Your point was to show we had terrible Championship campaigns after winning the league. Stop digging the hole!

glasagusban

jkiamasnake wrote: »

The semi finalists will be Kk, Tipp and 2 from Clare, Dublin, Cork, Galway, Waterford, Limerick and Wexford.

A bold prediction.

thinkstoomuch1

Deise_2012 wrote: »

That wasn't your point !!! Your point was to show we had terrible Championship campaigns after winning the league. Stop digging the hole!

Look you have the right to read it in whatever way you want , I totally respect your opinion but disagree with it
As surely know my now I judge teams on all Irelands and lesser degree all Ireland finals certainly not munster championship and while I do rate the league when kk aren't there imo kinds of not same value in a final unless you beat KK along the way something waterford as of yet didn't do


I appreciate your attention to my posts on different threads just since Sunday just since I went against the popular view waterford and said long before Sunday game all that week lead up and after Sunday then imo I said would be better team in June as Waterford will find out
As you said before well leave it til June to decide

blue note

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Look you have the right to read it in whatever way you want , I totally respect your opinion but disagree with it
As surely know my now I judge teams on all Irelands and lesser degree all Ireland finals certainly not munster championship and while I do rate the league when kk aren't there imo kinds of not same value in a final unless you beat KK along the way something waterford as of yet didn't do


I appreciate your attention to my posts on different threads just since Sunday just since I went against the popular view waterford and said long before Sunday game all that week lead up and after Sunday then imo I said would be better team in June as Waterford will find out
As you said before well leave it til June to decide

What are you on about? We can read into it whatever way we want?

You said

Any time they won league failed dismally in championship as stats proved

Which we all took to mean that we fared badly in the championship in the years when we won the league. What other way is there to interpret what you said?

thinkstoomuch1

blue note wrote: »

What are you on about? We can read into it whatever way we want?

You said



Which we all took to mean that we fared badly in the championship in the years when we won the league. What other way is there to interpret what you said?

In have explained this already and points was that was a very very very good waterford team who because they didn't get to all Ireland final having been around for a few years was a big disappointment in with greats like mullane dan the man the legend ken mcgrath, under rated outside waterford prendergaat I'm huge fan of now doubt championship was huge disappointment waterford when struggled beat cork went to replay and limerick beat them well in the semi final
And remember yes imo that's was a loss that was dismal for Waterford in look at those greats players hammered limerick munster final and limerick total under dog in all Ireland Semi final
When you look back at this imo there's a lesson imo for Waterford in beat limerick, limerick turned them over later on and Waterford don't do favourites tag particularly well imo at times which is a valid concerns that could be shared with the now huge favourite tags waterford have in June for cork imo


Simple point was in realion to good league doesn't mean good all Ireland for Waterford, in kk and tipp to a lesser degree yet
Waterford got to league finals years ago didn't hsve great championship all Ireland wise

I'm not going to keeping making these points as this is generally hurling discussion thread not cork waterford debate which is what thread doesn't deserve become
Reason I mentioned waterford as clearly seen was in reference another poster saying they would get to the final this year
I disagree with that,maybe in time waterford will
And of course I could be wrong

GerB40

glasagusban wrote: »

A bold prediction.

It took me a second to think how that was a bold prediction...

blue note

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Simple point was in realion to good league doesn't mean good all Ireland for Waterford, in kk and tipp to a lesser degree yet
Waterford got to league finals years ago didn't hsve great championship all Ireland wise

What you said was Waterford winning a League title was not necessarily a good sign for the coming championship, as the stats have shown. But the stats have shown the opposite.

Now you've said that the years we got to league and were unsuccessful we didn't have great championships. When again the opposite is the case. In recent times we were twice in the league final other than our wins (in 1998 and 2004) and they were two of our best championship seasons.

thinkstoomuch1

blue note wrote: »

What you said was Waterford winning a League title was not necessarily a good sign for the coming championship, as the stats have shown. But the stats have shown the opposite.

Now you've said that the years we got to league and were unsuccessful we didn't have great championships. When again the opposite is the case. In recent times we were twice in the league final other than our wins (in 1998 and 2004) and they were two of our best championship seasons.

Now how have the statics of 2007 proved the league win was good for championship for Waterford please?!!
Waterford expectations start of the year was to push on and win an all Ireland or at least get to a final as their old nemis cork were under new management and not the cork of old after four finals in a row winning two

Struggled twice to beat a well psst it cork team team munster and the all Ireland needing a replay

Limerick total underdogs won that game convincingly let's be honest
This was a brilliant waterford team brought pride and glory to a certain degree to waterford in all but all Irelands and no doubt team expected reach all Ireland final after years close call with best teams that when they didn't do is in 2007 that year could imo be classed as major disappointment in Waterford were expected by all to reach the final
They were not a team in transition but a well mature and experience team based on previous years


And many limerick fans would honestly say limerick didn't think had real chance that year so waterford should been in the final but limerick totally deserves that's win