Problem with Niece not paying phone bill as agreed

Chorus_suck

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Aard

You're enabling her selfish and irresponsible behaviour. Let her stand on her own two feet and stop paying for her phone!

AlmightyCushion

If you cancel the phone contract now then you'll be hit with a big cancellation fee so that's not much of an option. Are you on a contract at the moment? If not or if you are chose to the end of it then could take the phone and sim and transfer your number to it and use it. Even if you don't actually do it telling her you plan on doing it might make her cop on a bit. In future you should get them to take the phone out in their own name and you transfer the 25 euro to her account as opposed to the other way around. Or she could just pay her own bill like most other adults.

mickdw

You are foolish to be paying a phone bill for a working person.
As you are now into a new 24 month deal and seeing that she has no intention of paying the bill, Id teach her a lesson and have the phone blocked if possible.
One day without her phone and no access to her number should get you an apology.

Call me Al

What do you do now? You stand up for yourself and don't let her take you for granted or treat you badly.
Is it bill pay? Are YOU tied into a contract? The answers to these will decide your course of action.

qwerty1991

Wow your niece sounds very thankless when you have treated her so well!

Is this a long term phone contract and is it In your name or hers? If it is in your name then even if she refuses to pay, you will be landed with the bill unfortunately. And even if you cancel it you will be stuck with the cancellation fees.

assuming the bill is in your name, maybe you could ring the mobile company and ask them to suspend all service for a month but still pay that months bill. If your niece finds that she cannot use her phone, I would say she would be quick to find you the money for the bills.

Call me Al

Call me Al wrote: »

What do you do now? You stand up for yourself and don't let her take you for granted or treat you badly.
Is it bill pay? Are YOU tied into a contract? The answers to these will decide your course of action.

Eta is see it's 24 month in your name.
Personally I'd be taking the phone back. And then I'd probably use it myself if I could get out of my own contract.

Stavro Mueller

I'd be tempted to ask for the handset back and either keep it or sell it. I'm assuming it's an iPhone or a top of the range Android if you're paying €50 a month.

I guess this relationship is broken for now but if you could negotiate some sort of agreement with her, a monthly standing order of €25 from her account to yours would solve the having to keep looking for money thing.

Call me Al

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Chorus_suck

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Stavro Mueller

So if your niece has a job now, how is she being paid? I think she's pulling the wool over your eyes if she's still claiming she has no bank account. These days it's next to impossible to have a job and not have a bank account. Most employers pay their staff electronically these days and it's an arrangement that suits everyone. Even if they were still old-skool and pay by cheque, she wouldn't have a hope in hell of being able to cash it anywhere. Even the banks won't cash them these days if you're not a customer of theirs. Even less plausible is the idea that she's being paid in cash. So it's possible someone's lying by omission here.

Call me Al

But you're not being a prick about the whole thing. She is the one who us reneging on the deal. And she's an adult, not a wayward childish teenager. Does she normally take you for granted like this? If the gentlemans agreement was there that she pay half, and not that you'd continue on as before, then I can't see how you can't not stand up to this behaviour.

You aren't doing her any favours enabling this sort of stuff.

coolbeans

Chorus_suck wrote: »

Thanks for the advice.

A few things:
1. Niece does not have a bank a/c. She operates with a prepaid credit card.
2. Phone is in my name as it's the continuation of a contract that's been in place since she was in her early teens.
3. Phone is a decent phone ... and I'm not interested in taking it for myself or taking over her account for myself.
4. I want to keep the relationship in some way decent and not be a prick about the whole thing. I remember what it's like being that age. My problem here is that I'm too close to the situation and finding it hard to judge what's right/wrong.

TL/DR I'm happy enough to keep paying half her bill as agreed ... and want to keep some sort of relationship with her ... but don't want a row every month over this. So what's the best way to deal with this now?

You're a big part of the problem here. This woman should have nothing but respect and gratitude for what you've done for her but instead it's the opposite. By continuing with this you're nothing but a useful idiot validating and indeed encouraging bad behaviour . She should be paying her own phone bill.

Buona Fortuna

Hi Chorus,

I agree with the poster above who didn't understand how your neice doesn't have a bank a/c.

I think a couple of days "service interuption" would probably do the trick. Pay your bill late so that they stop the service temporarily. The reason could well be being €50 light over the last 2 months.

I wish you well, its a tricky enough situation.

Ranjo

Why was she arguing with you over it? Was the agreement clear on who pays what and when?

I'm just surprised that she would decide to be so argumentative when she's getting the good deal.

If you want to keep the relationship and keep the agreement going then you have to draw the line somewhere, and that might be a point that she doesn't like.

evolving_doors

She obviously knows you'll be hit with the cancellation if you pull the plug.And she might think she'll get a free phone to boot if she can get it unlocked.

If its family, then an intermediary to make her deception public. If she smokes (like I think you said )just think that you may as well be paying for them by freeing up her 'phone cash'.

miamee

Are this girl's parents around? Would they, or whoever brought her up, have a word? I presume she is still living at home with her parent or grandparents.
You are not being a prick about this situation, she is.
You are doing her a disservice if you roll over and start paying full whack for the bill with no consequences for her, how will she learn the value of money or how to budget if she has you throwing money at her when she can't be bothered to pay for her own phone?
If she can't afford even half of the bill for a fancy new phone then she shouldn't have the fancy new phone.

ABajaninCork

I don't believe your niece has no bank a/c - How is she getting her salary paid otherwise??

Pay the bill late. Let them cut off the phone. When the spoilt little madam rocks up asking about her phone, tell her to pay the bill for the last couple of months. And set up a SO transferring the money to your a/c every month. Oh - and a fulsome apology.

Or no phone!!

Stavro Mueller

I'd have no qualms about getting the handset back off her. Her world won't end if she has to get by with a €90 Huawei for the next 2 years. A nice phone on a costly plan is a luxury, not a necessity. She'll be fine. Seeing as she's smoking and drinking, €90 won't get her too far.

MistyCheese

She definately needs to put on her big girl pants and sort herself a bank account. It's part of growing up. So is paying your bills.

In the long run you will be helping her more by encouraging her to stand on her own two feet OP. You've been extremely reasonable with this young lady but now what she needs more than a phone is a push to be a l'il bit more responsible.

no.panic neva.panic

OP, tell your niece that she needs to get her half of the bill over to you before it is due or else it's not going to get paid, and keep to your word. Do not pay the next bill unless she fixes the outstanding amount with you. This is not being a dick about it, this is teaching an entitled madam the consequences of not paying her flipping bills.

The_Conductor

If she now has a fulltime job- how are they paying her? Cheques are pretty much history at this stage- it beggars belief that she doesn't have a bank account.

As for whether its fair for her to pay half her phone bill- its *her* phone bill- you are being amply generous paying half the bill- she has no reasonable expectation that you should continue to sub her in this manner.

I fully appreciate that she is your niece, she is family- and you don't want to cause trouble- believe you me I do. Mixing family and money- is a recipe for disaster.

At this stage- if you can't appeal to her maturity and better nature- I'd suck on a lemon and pay the bill for the length of the contract- and cancel it promptly thereafter (offering her the opportunity to take the contract over herself).

Life is short- family feuds are something that we can all do without.

Unfortunately- you structured this in such a way that she can (and is) ignoring it.

I'd issue her with an ultimatum- that either she pony's up- or you are calling and having the phone locked on the network. Really I would.

You have been amply generous to her- she is now abusing that generosity.

bjork

Your niece is in her early 20's, working and you are paying her phone bill?


Why?

She's big enough at this stage to pay her own. Suspend the phone account.
Job done

also time to sort herself out with a b/c

suds1984

Would it be possible to transfer the contract into her name? (Not sure if phone companies allow this sort of thing?) and then you could just give her her portion of what you said you'd pay and leave her with the responsibility of paying the bills etc.

Stavro Mueller

Op, I did a little googling and it would appear that it is possible to transfer the contract from one person to another. It may involve contacting customer care to do it. I noticed Vodafone have a form but I couldn't find one for Three. If your niece is able to afford to smoke and drink she can cover the extra €25 per month contract. And yeah, I doubt she's getting by without a bank account.

Big Bag of Chips

I wouldn't bank on her growing a conscience and paying her share (which, by the way, is the full bill never mind half!) if you cut it off. She'll just walk into a shop and buy one in her own name.

She has a bank account. She may not have had a bank account when this agreement started but you can be certain she has one now. She probably opened one when she started college. You are being taken for a mug. Where are her parents? Why are they allowing this? I can't see a time where I would allow my brother or sister pay for anything for my child on an ongoing basis. Once off, dig out, maybe. But you say this has been the arrangement for years?? And now that she's working full time she still expects someone else to finance her?

I think you are stuck with this contract. Its up to you whether or not you lock the phone/try to get it back from her/try to cancel the contract at a hefty price... Although you're already going to be paying a hefty price for her for the next 2 years anyway.

I think you're a bit soft and she's going to continue taking advantage. The brass neck of her to abuse you instead of being mortified and offering to take over the full bill immediately. She has an enormous sense of entitlement, but it seems it is encouraged by those around her, by you for paying her way for so long, and by her parents by allowing her to abuse your generosity for so long.

Ring the phone company. See what, if anything they can do for you.... Or continue paying for her social life until 2017!

gnf_ireland

As with some others I dont for a minute believe your niece does not have a bank account. In any event you can pay for a phone bill using a credit card mandate !

Might not want to be late paying as it might be a pain for you, but a simple thing you could do is ask the provider for a new SIM card and do a sim swap. This will cut off service from the old SIM card.

Text your niece before you do it and say the new SIM is at your house when she wants to act like an adult !!! Tell her she should also back up her numbers :-)

Also worth noting she cannot transfer the number to another provider as you actually own it !!!

I think it's a lesson you need to teach her - she is already acting quite selfishly in my view !

Stavro Mueller

Would showing up at her house (better still if she's still living at home and you get your brother/sister onside) with the paperwork for changing the ownership of the account be an option? Come at it from the angle of "Listen Mary, our arrangement isn't working out any more. Anyway now that you're over 18 and are working, it'd be better if you took ownership of the account"

Valentina

Your niece has a bank account. Of course she does.

Transfer the bill into her name and bank account.

Set up a standing order for €25 for the next 22 months if you are happy to continue paying half. That way you are fulfilling your side of the deal and she can worry about paying the balance herself.

OU812

Tell her you're paying it into her account from now on and putting it in her name.

Ask for her bank account details for the standing order, then update the phone company with the new details & transfer ownership.

arayess

others are saying that you are being taken for a mug - which is true . but you need to also consider that you are doing her no favours in the long term.
She has a job and needs to be able to get by on her wage without hand-outs from you (or others) you are actually doing her a disservice.

If you did indeed care for her you'd implement some tough love and stop paying for it

IlmoNT4

OP I'd head over to her house with a contract transfer form and tell her, I'm sorry but this isnt working out, you havent held up your part of the deal so the phone is yours, and no 25 euro from me.

You are not helping her in the long term OP.... This is not how she should be behaving towards an aunt that has been so generous to her. If anything she should have come over to your house when she got her first job, with a bunch of flowers and a contract transfer form and said thank you for helping me when I was a student. Not giving you the two fingers, while out working, drinking and smoking.

Come on....
If she wouldnt transfer the contract, then I would suspend the account but before any of that I would go and talk to her face to face, keep it calm but firm, this isnt working out and I'm disappointed in the behavior not you etc. There are a couple of things she needs to understand
-This can be resolved without anyone falling out
-You have to pay your way, thats just reality in the real world. Do you want her to mature into an adult that uses people and thinks this type of behavior is ok?

hairyslug

its in your name, right, go into a shop and ask for a sim change, it will make her sim inactive and as you said you are not to concerned about not getting the phone back.
If in time she cops on to herself and you can patch things up, just give her the new sin.
you won't have any cancellation few to pay or anything that may affect your credit ratings for not paying a bill in your name

seventeen sheep

I'd be interested to know how the phone conversation went, and how it developed into a row? As in, did she start by apologising and say she'd repay you at some undefined point in the future, or is she saying she just can't afford it, or is she arguing that you never had the agreement in place ...?

I'd be very tempted to call the phone company and ask them to block the phone until further notice from you. Give her a weeks notice before you do this (and I'm only saying to do that to give the best chance of maintaining a relationship with you.) Don't unblock it until she's repaid you, and until you've set up a direct debit mandate from her bank account (and if she claims not to have one - which I sincerely doubt - get her to set one up.) Then, do up a basic contract between the two of you that she is responsible for the bill but you have agreed to pay €25 per month towards it (and do specify €25 rather than "half the bill", in case some month a massive bill arrives if she goes over her data limit or something.

Also, do speak to the phone company and explain the situation and ask if there's any way to transfer the account fully to her name. If you transfer the direct debit to her, you don't want your credit history to be affected if payments start bouncing!

If she refuses to agree to the above, and simply gets herself a new phone and leaves you with the large cancellation fee, it's an expensive lesson for you to have learned! Never put someone else's bill in your name.

She sounds like a spoilt ungrateful brat by the way.

Rubberchikken

be clear with her. if she wants to be treated as an adult, she has to act like an adult.
she made an agreement with you and she should do the decent thing and honour that. otherwise agree with her to finish this phone contract when it can be done and let her look after her own phone/payments.

she does need to be willing to discuss it with you. hanging up/not answering is childish and unfair to someone who seems to have been fair so far.

Big Bag of Chips

I think the time for negotiating has passed! You offered her a very good deal to pay half of her phone bill. She threw that in your face along with a bit of abuse, for good measure. She doesn't deserve any negotiations. She doesn't deserve you paying her phone bill. She doesn't need you paying her phone bill. You have been very generous for a long time, when, perhaps she needed it.

Now she doesn't need it.
She doesn't appreciate it.
End it.

mickdw

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

<Snip> Unnecessary quoting of previous post

What happens if she goes on a weekend trip to another county and runs up a silly bill for data usage. Toy will be left with the consequences op. Easy enough to do also if you are not concerned about the bill.

El_Duderino 09

Hey OP,

The opinions offered here have been fairly similar. Some more direct than oothers but they all agreed you have been very generous and your niece isn't showing the appreciation due to you meaning the arrangements appears to have run it's course.

What are your thoughts and what are you thinking about doing?

orthsquel

You early 20s niece is acting like a bratty teen about this issue tbh! Hanging up on you rather than discussing the issue is childish and just not on. You have been very good to her but you are ultimately paying the price.

Does she get a copy of the bill every month? Does she have access to it? Is the amount per month a set amount or does it vary depending on usage? If the bill isn't paid, who does it fall to? Have you discussed with your provider (through customer care) about transferring the account and what is involved (which from what I noticed recently under FAQs of my own provider seems straight forward) or changing the type of price plan to bring the cost down?

I think your options are limited... while you have said it, you ought to follow through on getting the account suspended or cancelled, even with a financial penalty. If you feel really bad about doing that, offer to buy her one of those cheap €10/€20 pre pay phones you can get in Vodafone I think.

The other alternative is as suggested, you get her bank details and she sets up with you a standing order paid direct to your bank account every month a set amount to uphold her end of the agreement. I honestly wouldn't believe she doesn't have a bank account, even if she has a pre pay debit or credit card like 3V (if they're still around) it would be very unusual for a company anywhere to pay wages or salaries in cash every week or month these days or even issue a cheque and have only come across it in very extreme circumstances such as payroll not processing bank details. I worked in a fast food place when cheques were still the norm near 13 years ago and even they paid by direct debit into the bank account!

Aside from that - does she pay for the pre pay credit card herself, or does someone else do that for her?

I don't think cancelling or suspending the account or transferring it to your name or anything like that would make you out to be a dick about the matter at all. I think it would be to her benefit to stand on her own two feet about her bill otherwise she will take the piss with other bills (rent, internet, tv if she's in houseshares or get blacklisted from service providers for non payment) and force her to manage her money better... and she might thank you for it in the long run.

The only other aspect I'd consider is that she's not telling you the truth about working. However, even if she is unemployed (and lying about it), if she can afford to smoke (tobacco alone would be anything from €6-€12 depending on brand and size, cigarettes are what about over the €12 mark a pack at this stage?) and drink then she can afford €25 towards a bill. She ultimately at some point while working will be faced with decisions about paying her way in rent and bills and other responsibilities and obligations Vs paying for a night out; the sooner she learns of this choice and that there isn't some soft cushion of an aunt or uncle or other relative to pay it all for her, the better for her in the long term.

Just for your own sake OP as you seem like you might be someone who would be willing or might fall on you to provide it...... don't ever sign as guarantor for a loan or mortgage for her, ever in the future. Take this issue of your niece's behaviour towards you as a lesson to how you most likely will be treated by her in the future about money.

Call me Al

I think those last two sentences above are extremely important for you OP.
Take heed!

Eric Cartman

op call the operator and ask them to issue you a new sim card and cancel the old one, I'm sure your niece would start talking to you after that. set out a statement of all the money owed to date and say thats the price that its going to cost to get the sim back.

keep doing this every time she doesn't pay ,

and then OP after this contract runs its course don't ever pay for a phone again.

Stavro Mueller

On reflection the risk with disabling her sim is that she'll cut her losses. She might just nip into a phone shop and get a Pay as you go sim and a new number. Stick the sim into your phone, text her pals to say she has a new number and that'll be the end of that. You're stuck paying for a contract nobody's using and a phone you don't have.

mickdw

Stavro Mueller wrote: »

On reflection the risk with disabling her sim is that she'll cut her losses. She might just nip into a phone shop and get a Pay as you go sim and a new number. Stick the sim into your phone, text her pals to say she has a new number and that'll be the end of that. You're stuck paying for a contract nobody's using and a phone you don't have.

Better that than paying for phone service for unappreciative niece.
At least the would mean niece had to pay her own way and she would eventually realise that it was costing her more than if she had played ball.

Bummer1234

OP, im not sure if its a option but what is there mother or father doing about this, Have you spoken with them about this issue?

coolbeans

Would be nice to hear the OP's thoughts since so many people have taken the time to reply...

Taltos

Mod Note:
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coolbeans

Taltos wrote: »

Mod Note:
Hi coolbeans - please have a read of our charter. PI is not here for our amusement and OP's are under no obligation to give any updates. As a result we have called out the following in our charter.



As PI is strictly moderated please before posting again here take 2 minutes to familiarise yourself with the rules here.

Noted. Apologies.

myshirt

Op, the sentiment is good and fair play to you for helping your niece. If I can say to you however, consider what may be the real task here - and for me, this is the core of what is the real task here - ensuring that this young girl is capable of dealing with life's challenges and managing herself effectively. By stepping in as you have done, potentially you have insulated her somewhat. Ultimately, you cannot be there forever and at every obstacle. She needs to learn these skills.

The phone absolutely needs to be taken off her. You can actually change the number and continue on. If she will not give you the handset, have it locked and bricked remotely if needs be. And report it to the garda. This girl needs a swift kick in the pants, and I have every expectation it will do her the world of good in the long run. Your sentiment is caring, you are no doubt a good person, but I would ask you not to act counterproductive by letting her keep that phone or continue with that behaviour. Give that girl the kick in the pants. And give it to her swiftly, and with force.

Best wishes.

kylith

I'd call or, preferably, go visit her and tell that her options are 1) transfer the phone into her name and you DD e25 into her account every month for the duration of the contract (I think you would be silly to pay for a working adult's phone, personally), 2) you brick the phone, and get a new sim card and use it yourself or 3) she coughs up e25 at the start of every month and failure to do so will mean that option 2 comes into effect immediately and with no warning.

Miaireland

I agree with the others, the odds are your niece has a bank account but if not this is the perfect time for her to open one.

I think at this stage you are not doing her any favours by paying her bill at all. She needs to learn how to budget and be independent. She also needs to learn how to deal with hearing about things she doesn't like in a more mature manner.

I would get the account transfered into her name and I would tell her that now that she is working that you feel it is time that she paid herself.

tinkerbell

OP, you shouldn't be paying ANY of your niece's phone bill, never mind paying half! That is just insane. She has some neck on her to be accepting your money, that is some cheek. She is working now - she is no longer a penniless teenager and she's taking the piss now and making a fool of you by not paying up what you agreed with her. So time to ring up the phone company and get it transferred into her name, and never give her a penny again as she doesn't appreciate your generosity at all.