What do the LGBT Community want from a "Yes" Vote?

Snegg

So this is a question that has been bothering me for a bit in relation to the upcoming referendum.
Now I'd be lying if I said I was fully informed in the differences between marriage and a civil union, but I'll give this a go anyway.

So I am really curious and unaware as to what members of the LGBT community want want if a "yes" vote were to occur.

When I think of marriage, I think of a ceremony where a bride walks down the isle of a church, the priest does is job, and then bob's your uncle.

But with a "yes" vote, this will still not be the case, due to the fact that most religious institutions are against homosexual marriage (not something I entirely agree with, but that's a sad fact).

So with regards to the differences between a marriage and a civil union, all tax stuff and similar things are equal, so a "yes" vote will make no difference in that regard.

But the biggest thing I see a difference with comes back to family. Such as a family home and a shared home, and also the legally recognised relationship between a child and there biological parent.
My first question is, shouldn't the definition of a family be changed, as opposed to marriage?

And secondly, is it just that LGBT members want to be able to ask someone "Will you marry me?", and to tell people that "I'm married"?
Or is there something much more that I'm missing.

Right now I'm on the fence as to which way I'd vote. Although a lot of the "No Campaign" posters seem irrelevant to marriage (focusing on surrogacy and other irrelevant topics), there is one poster that stands out to me, which reads;
"We already have civil partnerships, why redefine marriage?"
To be honest I think that is a fair statement, and I would like to know why marriage needs to be redefined, as opposed to either redefining civil partnerships or the family.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

We're here! We're queer! We want free beer!

yerwanthere123

They want equality.

LadyAthame

So I am really curious and unaware as to what members of the LGBT community want want if a "yes" vote were to occur.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057367896

So I am really curious and unaware as to what members of the LGBT community want want if a "yes" vote were to occur.

Well then with all due respect there is not a lot of point talking to you until you are.

Snegg

LadyAthame wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057367896



Well then with all due respect there is not a lot of point talking to you until you are.

I was hoping maybe you would enlighten me?

endacl

I think they want to force priests to carry out religious ceremonies against their will, have babies by surrogacy so they can sacrifice them at said ceremonies, and happyslap nuns.

That's just from reading the no posters though, so I may be missing some other stuff.

househero

If there is a yes vote. Expect the live register to fall again... Married unemployed people get shafted out of welfare. The gov would be loving it.

LadyAthame

Snegg wrote: »

I was hoping maybe you would enlighten me?

I am so glad you asked.

There are over 160 statute differences between civil partnerships and marriage.

Canis Lupus

http://www.marriagequality.ie/getinformed/marriage/faqs.html

Ultimately though for my interpretation it's simply about equality. Nothing religious if that's floating about your head. As long as we have one thing for gay people and one thing for hetro people there is a line between us even if it's a subtle one.

They're normal, average people, brothers and sisters and so on and so forth and they deserve to be able to marry someone if they fecking well want to.

Also there is a big thread on this already.

The Backwards Man

They want me to marry my dog

yerwanthere123

endacl wrote: »

happyslap nuns.

Finally a motion I can support.

Cookie_Monster

the tax break

Birneybau

The same rights straight people get when married, tax credits, legal recognition, straightforward transition of assets if one dies without a will. That kind of thing.

endacl

Birneybau wrote: »

The same rights straight people get when married, tax credits, legal recognition, straightforward transition of assets if one dies without a will. That kind of thing.

The right to tell mother in law jokes. That's a big one, apparently.

FloatingVoter

endacl wrote: »

The right to tell mother in law jokes. That's a big one, apparently.

We'll have to wait a generation. Because when Adam marries Steve, it'll be at least 16 years before their mutant baby Larry marries Harry.
Then Harry can tell us all about Steve.

endacl

FloatingVoter wrote: »

We'll have to wait a generation. Because when Adam marries Steve, it'll be at least 16 years before their mutant baby Larry marries Harry.
Then Harry can tell us all about Steve.

Tis complemicated all right...

FloatingVoter

endacl wrote: »

Tis complemicated all right...

Not half as complicated as the OP. I just saw mention of free beer.

blatantrereg

civil partnership doesn't offer the same legal rights as marriage. 160 statutory differences.

http://www.marriagequality.ie/getinformed/marriage/faqs.html

It's not complicated. It's simple. They aren't allowed do something everyone else is allowed to do because they are a minority. It is outrageous discrimination.

It really has broader significance than just Ireland here. It will effect how people view the subject internationally - this is the first referendum on the matter. It will effect how people view Ireland. The stereotype doesn't make us seem the most progressive so wouldn't it be nice to go against that.

Personally I've never bothered voting before in my life but I think I would be ashamed if I didn't vote for this. Children in 15 years time will view anyone who votes against this with abject disgust.

Lyaiera

My Spud Rock band, Ambiguous Chips will be playing a Yes Equality fundraiser in The Hairy Potato on Friday. Do come along.

NotYourYear20

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

They want equality.

Yet why would they want to join heterosexual couples in the dying institution of marriage and share their misery & mistakes?

efb

NotYourYear20 wrote: »

Yet why would they want to join heterosexual couples in the dying institution of marriage and share their misery & mistakes?

Most people believe in Marriage

NotYourYear20

efb wrote: »

Most people believe in Marriage

In my own personal & professional experience I would disagree strongly. Marriage has increasingly become an institution where financial liquidity & associated resources, usually determines whether a marriage will be a success or failure. The last seven years exemplify this perfectly. If some people 'believed' in marriage, then the vows they utter would actually mean something. Instead I've seen countless partners abandoned once the going gets tough. Which suggests marriage is increasingly becoming more of a financial convenience, rather than a coupling based upon undying love & loyalty.

eternal

Quit the moaning. Why shouldn't a homosexual have the same options as a guy and a girl to come together? Regardless of all the cynicism involved, people should have the right to choose who they settle down with. You can go on and on but the fact remains that if people really truly love each other then they will want to be together and the law should not stop that.

Geniass

NotYourYear20 wrote: »

In my own personal & professional experience I would disagree strongly. Marriage has increasingly become an institution where financial liquidity & associated resources, usually determines whether a marriage will be a success or failure. The last seven years exemplify this perfectly. If some people 'believed' in marriage, then the vows they utter would actually mean something. Instead I've seen countless partners abandoned once the going gets tough. Which suggests marriage is increasingly becoming more of a financial convenience, rather than a coupling based upon undying love & loyalty.

That's an argument (as such) for doing away marriage for everyone, not giving the LGBT an opportunity to be equally miserable as everyone else. :-)

JuliusCaesar

blatantrereg wrote: »

civil partnership doesn't offer the same legal rights as marriage. 160 statutory differences.

It's not complicated. It's simple. They aren't allowed do something everyone else is allowed to do because they are a minority. It is outrageous discrimination.

And strangely enough, there's no option for heterosexual couple to have a civil partnership, should they happen to prefer that option to getting married.

efb wrote: »

Most people believe in Marriage

Yes, we all have to believe in it, seeing nobody will give us a copy of the contract with all the small print

eternal wrote: »

Quit the moaning. Why shouldn't a homosexual have the same options as a guy and a girl to come together? Regardless of all the cynicism involved, people should have the right to choose who they settle down with. You can go on and on but the fact remains that if people really truly love each other then they will want to be together and the law should not stop that.

OP, your problem is confusing the religious ceremony with getting married. You know the bit in the church ceremony where the couple 'sign the register'? That's the civil marriage bit, the bit that's recognised by the State. If that wasn't done, the couple would have a religious marriage BUT it would not be recognised by the state. That's why kids can have a play marriage, but nobody dreams of holding them to it - it's not a real marriage, it's not recognised by the State.

Many people have just the State bit and leave out the religion, and get married in a Registry Office, or in a hotel by the Registrar - and are married. No priest/imam/rabbi/druid necessary.

Hope that explains it.

Think of all the atheists who would otherwise have to swallow their bile to walk up an aisle!! :eek:

galljga1

Essentially, equality is what they want. Click on the link in post 9, it is pretty much explained within. Within the page there is a link to 160 differences.

What they do not want is another thread regurgitating the same arguments.

galljga1

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

And strangely enough, there's no option for heterosexual couple to have a civil partnership, should they happen to prefer that option to getting married.

That is a good point. Am I right in saying that it will be made equal after the yes vote as civil partnership will no longer be available?

efb

NotYourYear20 wrote: »

In my own personal & professional experience I would disagree strongly. Marriage has increasingly become an institution where financial liquidity & associated resources, usually determines whether a marriage will be a success or failure. The last seven years exemplify this perfectly. If some people 'believed' in marriage, then the vows they utter would actually mean something. Instead I've seen countless partners abandoned once the going gets tough. Which suggests marriage is increasingly becoming more of a financial convenience, rather than a coupling based upon undying love & loyalty.

So anecdotal evidence then

Annasopra

It's really very simple

Constitutionally recognised civil marriage equality.

kylith

Snegg wrote: »

When I think of marriage, I think of a ceremony where a bride walks down the isle of a church, the priest does is job, and then bob's your uncle.

The problem there is that you're confusing marriage with a wedding. The wedding is the ceremony, a marriage is a civil contract entered into by two people.

If what you think of as 'marriage' were true then people who have the ceremony performed in a registry office wouldn't be married, yet they most definitely are.

Gay people want to be able into the same civil marriage contract as straight people, which they are currently unable to do. They wish to be entitled to the same protection under law, and to have the same rights and responsibilities as a heterosexual married couple.

No one will be forcing priests to perform a ceremony of marriage for gay people, though knowing the church's love for cash I'd say it won't be long before they decide to get in on the act.

Annasopra

galljga1 wrote: »

That is a good point. Am I right in saying that it will be made equal after the yes vote as civil partnership will no longer be available?

Yes.