Wrong occupation on Car Insurance

Tipsy McSwagger

So my car insurance is up for renewal in a month and i have just gotten an e-mail which has cut last years by a good amount. I checked the form from last year to see what i paid and it says I work as an accountant. I never have worked as an accountant and don't remember putting it in that I did, i am currently not working at all. What should I do? Be honest and ring up or just take the quote?

Special Circumstances

I'm guessing this is 123.ie
They seem to have added loads of fields that they never asked for when existing customers signed up first - so they just made up fictitious sh1t to fill the blanks.

A bit bonkers, they wouldn't be long pulling the rug from under you if you omitted important info or misled them, but they can pad out the info with random BS rather than clarifying it with you or warning you about it.

I know somone who was living at a "Brothers of Charity" facility according to 123 - their quote went UP when they explained they were not living in a centre for people with intellectual difficulties.

TL/DR - I wouldn't risk anything except full disclosure - you can be sure the regulations and T&Cs are there for their advantage, not yours...

blackbird 49

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I'm guessing this is 123.ie
They seem to have added loads of fields that they never asked for when existing customers signed up first - so they just made up fictitious sh1t to fill the blanks.

A bit bonkers, they wouldn't be long pulling the rug from under you if you omitted important info or misled them, but they can pad out the info with random BS rather than clarifying it with you or warning you about it.

I know somone who was living at a "Brothers of Charity" facility according to 123 - their quote went UP when they explained they were not living in a centre for people with intellectual difficulties.

TL/DR - I wouldn't risk anything except full disclosure - you can be sure the regulations and T&Cs are there for their advantage, not yours...

+1

seamus

It's kind of catch-22. Now that you know this data exists you have no defence for keeping quiet about it.

The question will always come up in the event of accident about what you were doing at the time of the accident. If you tell them that you were on your way to the social welfare office or a training course, that could land you in trouble when they realise that you're not an accountant.

Pov06

Same happened to my dad. Renewal said he is a van driver. He has never been a van driver.

Chris_Heilong

This is very serious if what you guys are saying is true, that the insurance broker is entering false details and in the event of an accident you might not be covered.

When you do call them just remember all calls are recorded with the insurance/brokers so ask how did this happen and let them admit blame.

Special Circumstances

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

9935452

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

So my car insurance is up for renewal in a month and i have just gotten an e-mail which has cut last years by a good amount. I checked the form from last year to see what i paid and it says I work as an accountant. I never have worked as an accountant and don't remember putting it in that I did, i am currently not working at all. What should I do? Be honest and ring up or just take the quote?

Personally id go onto the website and see can you as an accountant get the same or similar quote online and then get another quote for your correct occupation and compare , they might be the same.
Regardless i would correct them . If they have the wrong information it could invalidate your insurance in the case of an accident

Tipsy McSwagger

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I'm guessing this is 123.ie
They seem to have added loads of fields that they never asked for when existing customers signed up first - so they just made up fictitious sh1t to fill the blanks.

A bit bonkers, they wouldn't be long pulling the rug from under you if you omitted important info or misled them, but they can pad out the info with random BS rather than clarifying it with you or warning you about it.

I know somone who was living at a "Brothers of Charity" facility according to 123 - their quote went UP when they explained they were not living in a centre for people with intellectual difficulties.

TL/DR - I wouldn't risk anything except full disclosure - you can be sure the regulations and T&Cs are there for their advantage, not yours...

It's with AA acting as as a broker for AXA

Pov06

In my dad's case it was Liberty Insurance.

Perhaps they bodged something up during the transition from Quinn Direct to Liberty :rolleyes:

darragh o meara

Get it changed ASAP. I had a claim denied 2 years ago for this very thing, had previously worked in an office which I was made redundant from, I had went back to college and never thought to ring them up. Come the time I had to claim, being an honest person I told the investigator I was on my way to college when it happened, few days later claim was denied and my policy cancelled for non disclosure... Ombudsman sided with insurer too, basically saying I should have known better..

Getting a policy after a cancellation for non disclosure was very difficult indeed, ended up with a 3k excess on my policy for a car worth 1500.. 2 separate insurers told me that non disclosure is almost as bad as a drink driving conviction in the eyes of insurers.

Your problem probably lies with the fact that the sales person who gave you the quote needed sales and knew what occupations gave lower quotes, thus increasing his/her chances of a sale....

Tipsy McSwagger

Waiting on a call back since yesterday. I'm just going to tell them I've been let go and am signing on. If I tell them it's been a mistake for nearly a year (my insurance is up in 3 weeks) they could cancel my insurance and do me for non disclosure.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Accountant is most likely the default profession as its top of the list, no one actually entered it as a profession, it just happens to be the first one.

Personally I'd pick whatever job I'm qualified to do regardless of whether I was working or unemployed. You can always say you were actively looking for work in that line. Would it even arise in s claim situation? Even if you were making a claim you can still say your a 'xxxxx' and who can say different.

myshirt

Darragh o meara, that's crazy, I can't believe it. Are you 100 % serious?

I agree with Cee Jay, there cannot be anything wrong with putting down what is your normal occupation, unless you have changed that. In any event, what gets my goat about Darragh O meara story is that' accountant' is not a regulated term. Absolutely anyone can call themselves an accountant and very easily meet the definition of it for insurance. How the hell did they nail him. Now if you called yourself a Chartered Accountant, different story. But anyone can be an accountant. Anyone here remember Bertie Ahern ffs.

darragh o meara

myshirt wrote: »

Darragh o meara, that's crazy, I can't believe it. Are you 100 % serious?

I agree with Cee Jay, there cannot be anything wrong with putting down what is your normal occupation, unless you have changed that. In any event, what gets my goat about Darragh O meara story is that' accountant' is not a regulated term. Absolutely anyone can call themselves an accountant and very easily meet the definition of it for insurance. How the hell did they nail him. Now if you called yourself a Chartered Accountant, different story. But anyone can be an accountant. Anyone here remember Bertie Ahern ffs.

100% serious. My solicitor told me afterwards that they will try anything to get out of paying a claim, at the same time he was dealing with the same company who refused a claim to someone who added alloy wheels to his car after he purchased it new. These weren't aftermarket wheels, bit OEM wheels from the dealers. The chap who bought the car regretted not getting day one so went back to the dealer and bought them a few months later. He also had a case where a lad had bought a keg of beer and a cooler for a house party who had an accident on his way home with it in the back of his van, guess what.. he was suddenly using the van for non disclosed commercial use. They refused the claim which eventually got overturned by the ombudsman.

Lads if I could give ye one piece of advice, disclose everything and don't hand them the stick they need to beat you when your down... there are people employed by insurance companies whose job it is, is to find the one thing that'll allow them to save from paying out.

TwoShedsJackson

You can expect a premium increase if you're unemployed - they will assume you are either driving more to go to interviews etc. or just have more free time to drive if you're not working, hence more likelihood (however small) of a crash/claim.

pred racer

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

It's with AA acting as as a broker for AXA

darragh o meara wrote: »

100% serious. My solicitor told me afterwards that they will try anything to get out of paying a claim, at the same time he was dealing with the same company who refused a claim to someone who added alloy wheels to his car after he purchased it new. These weren't aftermarket wheels, bit OEM wheels from the dealers. The chap who bought the car regretted not getting day one so went back to the dealer and bought them a few months later. He also had a case where a lad had bought a keg of beer and a cooler for a house party who had an accident on his way home with it in the back of his van, guess what.. he was suddenly using the van for non disclosed commercial use. They refused the claim which eventually got overturned by the ombudsman.

Lads if I could give ye one piece of advice, disclose everything and don't hand them the stick they need to beat you when your down... there are people employed by insurance companies whose job it is, is to find the one thing that'll allow them to save from paying out.

This is why I don't deal with the AA for car insurance anymore, they sent me a statement of fact last year with incorrect information on it and then wouldn't change it.

And I'm a field service engineer, best of luck finding that on their lists!

darragh o meara

pred racer wrote: »

This is why I don't deal with the AA for car insurance anymore, they sent me a statement of fact last year with incorrect information on it and then wouldn't change it.

And I'm a field service engineer, best of luck finding that on their lists!

My issue wasn't with the AA by the way. It was another major well respected insurer....

listermint

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

The whole paying for PPI scam that the banks had been running for years was spear headed by Sales Commission.

One thing that i have learned to attribute to malice is greed, So i would not write this off to stupidity excuse the pun.

Folks will and can do anything for a commission especially if they dont think they will be in the job for long.

Accountant is not the default at the top of the list for nearly all insurers in fact its a good few down the list.

Accountant however does statistically carry a very low weighted premium for driver claims.


Unusual how that one is selected often isnt it ...

ngcxt6

So whats happens if you're unemployed. Does your quote go up or down?

seamus

myshirt wrote: »

I agree with Cee Jay, there cannot be anything wrong with putting down what is your normal occupation, unless you have changed that.

Well, there can. As your occupation has a loading effect. So unemployed people and students are statistically riskier than accountants, to use this example, so will attract a higher premium.

Also "normal occupation" is a bit misleading. Someone could claim that they're an accountant, but working as barman while they job hunt. Bar staff are statistically much more likely to be in a crash (late nights, drinks after closing, etc). So it would be no defence to say that your "normal occupation" is accountancy, when you are actually a barman.
So in the same vein it wouldn't be a defence to claim that you're normally an accountant when you're actually unemployed.

To make this clearer, most of the insurers now actually ask specifically whether you're employed or not.

In any event, what gets my goat about Darragh O meara story is that' accountant' is not a regulated term. Absolutely anyone can call themselves an accountant and very easily meet the definition of it for insurance.

It's up to the insurance company to decide if what you do fits the criteria of "accountant", not you. That's the thing. If you think a court would reasonably agree with you that you're employed as an accountant, then stick "accountant" on the form.

Yes, anyone can call themselves an accountant. That doesn't mean the insurance company have to agree with that interpretation.

myshirt

Are unemployed people in a greater risk category than accountants? Woah.

In terms of the word 'accountant', read the standard precedent of your insurance contract and come back to me... you'll be surprised... I think the insurance industry are unaware that the term 'accountant' is undefined, it is quite an easy standard to meet.

power pants

could be more likely to crash your car if you are unemployed due to drink driving, drug taking or careless driving

Agricola

Feck, never paid much attention to this. Looks like I will have to resign from my imaginary teaching position that Ive held for the last number of years according to my insurer. Pity, I loved the imaginary holidays too

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

power pants

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

anyone can say they are an astronaut, doesnt mean it is true

challengemaster

myshirt wrote: »

Are unemployed people in a greater risk category than accountants? Woah.

Quote will go up.

This was explained in the AMA - unemployed people make more claims hence are higher risk.

Tipsy McSwagger

power pants wrote: »

could be more likely to crash your car if you are unemployed due to drink driving, drug taking or careless driving

I don't drink, take drugs and am a careful driver but way to generalize people.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

power pants

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

so if I was a trainnee chef, i could just put accountant down?

If I was a policeman, I could just put accountant down?

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

power pants

incorrect

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

power pants

therefore that means anyone can say they are an accountant as a profession?

seamus

myshirt wrote: »

Are unemployed people in a greater risk category than accountants? Woah.

Yep. Actuarial tables have all that fun stuff in them.
Pure speculation, but I imagine unemployed people are likely to in general do more mileage and drink more than an accountant who spends 45 hours a week in the office and goes home to sit in front of the TV at night.

In terms of the word 'accountant', read the standard precedent of your insurance contract and come back to me... you'll be surprised... I think the insurance industry are unaware that the term 'accountant' is undefined, it is quite an easy standard to meet.

draiochtanois wrote: »

Anybody can say they are an accountant ...

Yes, but that's irrelevant for your insurance company. This is a civil matter and your insurance company will cancel your policy if you've stated a falsehood.

It would be up to you to go to court and prove to the court's satisfaction that you in fact are an accountant even though you're really a commis chef and that your insurance company were wrong to cancel your policy.

It may not be a protected term, but it is a generally understood term. You can't claim to be an accountant to your insurance company unless most of your primary occupation quacks like accounting.

Just like I can call myself Lord Commander of Earth, since that's not a defined nor protected term, but if I put that down on my insurance policy I'm pretty sure it'll be a problem.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

power pants

out of work would mean "unemployed"

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

gizmo555

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I'm guessing this is 123.ie
They seem to have added loads of fields that they never asked for when existing customers signed up first - so they just made up fictitious sh1t to fill the blanks.

Insurance companies, like all data controllers, are obliged under the Data Protection Acts to keep the personal data they process accurate and up to date. Making fictitious sh1t up is certainly not compatible with that obligation. The OP should complain to the Data Protection Commissioner and the Financial Services Ombudsman.

edburg

Do they put unemployed down for emplyoyment??

Personally I am retired/unemployed due to disability and everytime I put retired down they ask for what I used to do before and never retired/unemployed.

Special Circumstances

gizmo555 wrote: »

Insurance companies, like all data controllers, are obliged under the Data Protection Acts to keep the personal data they process accurate and up to date. Making fictitious sh1t up is certainly not compatible with that obligation. The OP should complain to the Data Protection Commissioner and the Financial Services Ombudsman.

#KPMG

gizmo555

Special Circumstances wrote: »

#KPMG

darragh o meara

gizmo555 wrote: »

Insurance companies, like all data controllers, are obliged under the Data Protection Acts to keep the personal data they process accurate and up to date. Making fictitious sh1t up is certainly not compatible with that obligation. The OP should complain to the Data Protection Commissioner and the Financial Services Ombudsman.

Its up to the person taking out the policy to check if the information is correct on the documentation when it arrives, Or so I was told by the ombudsman office when I made my appeal. The insurance company won't care if you have Priest down as your occupation cos at the end of the day come the time to claim, they'll most likely find out and all your money paid to them over the years is theres for nothing, Harsh but its true. As per my post earlier, tell them everything and cover yourself. When I changed my occupation from student to Engineer last year, I had to prove that I was in fact an engineer and not a student.

gizmo555

darragh o meara wrote: »

Its up to the person taking out the policy to check if the information is correct on the documentation when it arrives,

That's fair enough, as far as it goes, but it certainly doesn't justify an insurance company just inventing random details if they don't know the actual data. They should just leave it blank and if necessary draw policy holders' attention to gaps in the information provided.

And, in addition to whatever the Financial Services Ombudsman may find, you are entitled to sue a data controller if you suffer a loss as a result of a failure to process your personal data in accordance with the Data Protection Acts. The Data Protection Commissioner has said in a recent speech that there has been a recent surge in cases being settled out of court.

Special Circumstances

gizmo555 wrote: »

A little sprinkle of KPMG dust, a dash of toothless legislation... et voila!

Joe public gets shafted again while the big boys laugh...

In other words, I don't see why legislation and ethics would be accepted by an insurance company as a reason to not make sh1t up to suit themselves in ireland...

Special Circumstances

darragh o meara wrote: »

When I changed my occupation from student to Engineer last year, I had to prove that I was in fact an engineer and not a student.

I'm imagining one of the yeehaws you'd get onto in quinn back in the day asking you tricky engineering related questions lol.

Shur engineer is like accountant. Anyone can pretend to be one.

DoctorStrange

So you're an accountant?

Yes.

In what sense?

Eh....

When was the last time you were paid / worked as an accountant?

Eh.....

Any other proof that you're an accountant?

Eh..... Your honor, 'accountant' is not really a well defined term......

Special Circumstances

DoctorStrange wrote: »

So you're an accountant?

Yes.

In what sense?

Eh....

When was the last time you were paid / worked as an accountant?

Eh.....

Any other proof that you're an accountant?

Eh..... Your honor, 'accountant' is not really a well defined term......

So you're an engineer?

Yes your honour.

In what sense are you an engineer?

In the same sense as the service guy that comes out to fix your SKY or your washing machine your honour.

Ah right, carry on...

JBokeh

darragh o meara wrote: »

When I changed my occupation from student to Engineer last year, I had to prove that I was in fact an engineer and not a student.

I did that, on a commercial policy, which I had since I was in school, I was a student, and after I got work after graduating I rang them to say I was an Engineer, said it made no difference, and my insurance only went down fractionally at the next renewal.

Strange, when I was in college I would drive my Jeep up on a Sunday or monday, take it to the shop for supplies that evening, and maybe a chipper spin once a fortnight. Total milage per week wouldn't have been more than 160KM. Now I do around 550KM a week not including errands, and my insurance group is less than before, which is odd

And yes I could get a commercial policy with my occupation down as student :pac:

billy few mates

Would you not just knuckle down and do the accountancy exams...? It should be easier than trying to change your details or having to explain yourself in front of the judge.....

They can't be that difficult, most of the bankers in this country are qualified accountants and look at them....!

To Elland Back

Only declare your true occupation. They're waiting for those that don't