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Froth in Receiving Jar..

  • 27-04-2015 11:41am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,194 ✭✭✭


    At peak milk times of the year we have a serious problem with froth in the receiving jar. It's can be so bad at times that we have to run the milk pump continuously. Has anyone had a similar problem, and could it lead to milk fat damage and lower milk fat test results. would appreciate any help.
    Tagged:


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭satstheway


    Same problem here have hat to take off machines on very bad occasions. Only at peak.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭mf240


    Same problem here a few times in the last couple of weeks.

    Had to run pump full aswell. And then of course forget to change it back!!

    Was going to try milking without a filter sock to see if the jar emptied quicker.

    Its a major pain .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,721 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Depending on the lid and setup it can help to swing out the spreader for washing the jar during milking.
    It deflects the milk down the jar and so it creates less froth by not falling directly into the milk in the jar.

    Doesn't always work but worth a try.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭satstheway


    Would an anti vortex plate help it empty quicker


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,194 ✭✭✭alps


    Any issues in running the milk pump full time, other than the noise of it??..
    The froting in ours is is definitely happening before the receiving jar..you can see it arriving in from the milk pipe..


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,721 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    It's ok if your sure it never runs dry for very long.
    I never liked the notion f them running dry for any length of time I think it would be hard on the shaft seals.

    I'm not sure the vortex plate will help. The froth isn't there because the pump can't empty the jar but rather the speed of milk entering the jar and the vertical drop. Running the pump full time just removes the milk from the jar so milk entering has nothing to splash into and froth.
    It's a balls of a problem and near identical machines often don't have the problem.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 520 ✭✭✭Pacoa


    Had that problem here and milking machine guy put a small pipe in from the top of the jar through the lid so that it sucks a small bit of air in and the bubbles break up the froth. Improved it a good bit so might be worth checking out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    And I'm only on row 2 out of 13
    Ywr5sO.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 116 ✭✭bt12


    froth seems to be worse this year, have tried alot of methods
    shower head is giving best results , air bleed is only average, dome type
    reciever have also helped alot the pounding of milk in glass jars drives it mad


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,721 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    alps wrote: »
    Any issues in running the milk pump full time, other than the noise of it??..
    The froting in ours is is definitely happening before the receiving jar..you can see it arriving in from the milk pipe..

    MAybe air leakage in air bleeds or claws or milk line if its frothy before receiver jar..


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,219 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    we got rid of the jar and put in a very big stainless steel vessel instead, might over spill once a week at this time of year but thats it, only due to alot of recordig jars emptying into it together


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,194 ✭✭✭alps


    Yes Brian, could be the air bleeds. Milk tubes really "hopping" at the point they drop into the top of the milk line. It's a 3 inch milk line and the milk can still shoot through in gushes.
    Apart from trying to find the remedy here, can these issues damage fats and lead to reduced test levels. That was welcome when we had a fat quota. ..All different now..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    I notice some alfa receivers (from Holland afaik) have the milk entrance in the side of the jar. Was told it was better for washing & also cut out frothing but have no personal experience.

    I think the anti-vortex plate solves a different problem (pump cutting in but not able to empty) - presumably froth would make this worse but the plate wouldn't stop the froth.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    The double diaphragm pump in our machine gave up last year and we put in an electric milk pump while we were finding a new one and with the electric pump it was a disaster couldn't milk 5 cows without the jar filling with froth, no issues with the double diaphragm. However there is a lot of froth in the bulk tank all the time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Fat is really delicate and any extra air drawing or pumping will affect your sample. If you put cream in a jam jar and shake for 3-4 mins you'll get an idea of how its structure changes.

    We would only use a variable speed milk pump as it will change speed depending on amount of milk flowing.

    Our parlours are Delaval with 3" milk lines entering receiving vessel from the side this frothing is not an issue.If it was me I'd be sorting out this frothing ASAP as its compromising your sample and costing money.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Brown Podzol


    Milk entering from the side here and frothing dosen't seem to be a problem. Stanless steel 50ltr vessel from Fullwood.
    This debate is going on for years and I herd a fellow say once that froth was a problem for him only when oilseed rape meal was included in the ration.
    Local milking machine man was saying that he is taking a supply of cooled milk from the other side of the plate cooler and putting it into the top of the receiving vessel and spraying over the milk in the jar, says it works.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭Viewtodiefor


    Fat is really delicate and any extra air drawing or pumping will affect your sample. If you put cream in a jam jar and shake for 3-4 mins you'll get an idea of how its structure changes.

    We would only use a variable speed milk pump as it will change speed depending on amount of milk flowing.

    Our parlours are Delaval with 3" milk lines entering receiving vessel from the side this frothing is not an issue.If it was me I'd be sorting out this frothing ASAP as its compromising your sample and costing money.

    You probably wouldn't have the volume of milk coming off those cress breeds to cause frothing Frazz . More of a problem with higher yielders


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    You probably wouldn't have the volume of milk coming off those cress breeds to cause frothing Frazz . More of a problem with higher yielders
    Cows doing 29 litres and heifers on 26 being put through at about 150/hr I'd say there would be froth alright


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,219 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    everything filled up this morning, going to check in plate cooler later , milk doesnt seem to be going as fast as it should


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,721 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    whelan2 wrote: »
    everything filled up this morning, going to check in plate cooler later , milk doesnt seem to be going as fast as it should

    Filter before plate cooler helps keep it clean. But opening them is a horrible job. If the gaskets start moving you just feel like running away screaming. :(


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭cjpm


    _Brian wrote: »
    Filter before plate cooler helps keep it clean. But opening them is a horrible job. If the gaskets start moving you just feel like running away screaming. :(

    Ha! no need to run away screaming. A few tiny drops of superglue can make a big difference, keeping the gasket to the plate until you squeeze them all up again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,219 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    _Brian wrote: »
    Filter before plate cooler helps keep it clean. But opening them is a horrible job. If the gaskets start moving you just feel like running away screaming. :(
    thought there was someting wrong with sock. took that out during milking and it was clear, we got a flush system in before christmas and it keeps the bleedhole clear in the plate cooler


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭cjpm


    On the frothing issue, is there any air being sucked up through the pipe going into bulk tank? Obviously when the milk pump is not running.

    I'm not familiar with the system, however with a diaphragm pump there is a non return valve that prevents air and milk being sucked back into the receiver jar from the bulk tank.

    We used to have a problem with froth in the bulk tank. What we discovered was causing it was the pipe dropping the milk into the tank. This pipe was a vertical stainless steel pipe 3 ft long. Turns out that the milk was dropping in it so fast it was creating a syphon effect. Replaced the pipe with a longer length of rubber hose at an angle and the frothing stopped.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    Surely newer bulk tanks cool milk fast without need for a plate cooler? I've a 25 year old Mueller dx tank that cools the milk before I turn off the milking machine no need for a plate cooler.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭milkprofit


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    Surely newer bulk tanks cool milk fast without need for a plate cooler? I've a 25 year old Mueller dx tank that cools the milk before I turn off the milking machine no need for a plate cooler.

    Yep but plate cooler reduces coat of cooling


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,219 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    did the in plate cooler, bleedhole was clear, 2 of the plates where stuck together with ****e:eek:, last tbc was 15


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    cjpm wrote: »
    Ha! no need to run away screaming. A few tiny drops of superglue can make a big difference, keeping the gasket to the plate until you squeeze them all up again.
    Thank you for that tip:):)

    I've used more bad language putting plate cooler together than at any other job. I'm off to the 'the best thing you've learned on Boards' thread now;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,219 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Thank you for that tip:):)

    I've used more bad language putting plate cooler together than at any other job. I'm off to the 'the best thing you've learned on Boards' thread now;)

    Very hard not to cut the hands/arms of yourself too


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    whelan2 wrote: »
    Very hard not to cut the hands/arms of yourself too
    +1:mad:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭mf240


    I took out the plate cooler and fcuked it into the scrap . Im not putting it back either . Ye cant make me:cool::cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    Would a dx tank cool milk alrite without a cooler with 10 rows of a 14 unit at peak?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭Viewtodiefor


    Milked out wrote: »
    Would a dx tank cool milk alrite without a cooler with 10 rows of a 14 unit at peak?

    Yes so long as your compressors are sized right


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭darragh_haven


    whelan2 wrote: »
    Very hard not to cut the hands/arms of yourself too

    The super glue is very handy for the cuts too. Better than any plaster


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭stretch film


    The super glue is very handy for the cuts too. Better than any plaster

    Great for the cracks on the tips odf your fingers also


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Mulumpy


    Just after putting my one back together ha


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,219 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    how often do people open their plate cooler? If its not giving a problem? The crap that was in mine yesterday was very bad. I last opened it in November. Used to have to open it every month before this


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Mulumpy


    Have never opened mine and it's in over 20 years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,396 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    I always leave a sock in for washing, usually just rinse out the old sock after milking, and new one on before next milking. No plans on ever opening the plate cooler.

    Serious froth in the overflow jar this morning also though!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    Timmaay wrote: »
    I always leave a sock in for washing, usually just rinse out the old sock after milking, and new one on before next milking. No plans on ever opening the plate cooler.

    Serious froth in the overflow jar this morning also though!
    Should that be happening in a new parlour?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭Viewtodiefor


    Should that be happening in a new parlour?

    New parlours make no difference to froth they can be worse than old ones.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    New parlours make no difference to froth they can be worse than old ones.

    I was told before froth shouldn't happen because the pipe goes into side of the milk vessel and the pipes are bigger so there's not as much pressure on milk when hits jar causing it to froth


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭Viewtodiefor


    I was told before froth shouldn't happen because the pipe goes into side of the milk vessel and the pipes are bigger so there's not as much pressure on milk when hits jar causing it to froth


    Works sometimes not always.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    Yes so long as your compressors are sized right

    was going to go with a 10hp compressor, perhaps to 5hp ones would be safer in case one would fail the other would keep going


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