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If you ain't no punk holler "we want pre-nup!"

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    #2
    LadyAthame
    Closed Accounts Posts: 793 ✭✭✭LadyAthame


    Please change the title to pre-nup it's disturbing.

    And yes fair is fair it's a good idea.


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    #3
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    LadyAthame wrote: »
    Please change the title to pre-nup it's disturbing.

    And yes fair is fair it's a good idea.

    It is!


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    #4
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Why marry then if you want a pre-nup?

    One of the rules of marriage is shared ownership


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    #5
    edword
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭edword


    marriages with pre nup agreements signed by both parties are statistically more likely to end in divorce, so i think farmers are being a bit short sighted here because by ensisting on pre nups you are increasing the likelihood or odds that their wife will eventually divorce them. have to wonder what theyre hiding really, but they havent earned a reputation for being greedy for nothing


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    #6
    LadyAthame
    Closed Accounts Posts: 793 ✭✭✭LadyAthame


    efb wrote: »
    It is!
    Thank you....we want nothing pre nipped.
    At the moment, the enforceability of existing pre-nuptial agreements in the courts is decided on a case by case basis and family law judges are not bound to divide the assets according to these agreements.

    A recent survey showed that seven out of ten farmers of both sexes and all ages are now in favour of pre-nupital agreements being recognised - despite opposition from the Catholic Church which says pre-nuptial agreements could damage or undermine the belief that marriage is for life.

    I think it eases antagonism in separations. Agreed they should be made legally binding.

    In the UK you can even enter into pre-cohabitation agreements. They would be good idea too.


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    #7
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    edword wrote: »
    marriages with pre nup agreements signed by both parties are statistically more likely to end in divorce, so i think farmers are being a bit short sighted here because by ensisting on pre nups you are increasing the likelihood or odds that their wife will eventually divorce them. have to wonder what theyre hiding really, but they havent earned a reputation for being greedy for nothing

    T'would be terrible if anything happened to her....


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    #8
    Sky King
    Registered Users Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Sky King


    edword wrote: »
    marriages with pre nup agreements signed by both parties are statistically more likely to end in divorce, so i think farmers are being a bit short sighted here because by ensisting on pre nups

    Maybe the only thing keeping people in a sh!tty marriage is the idea that they might have to sell all their stuff to pay off some hoebag of a wife (....or husband!!) if they split up.


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    #9
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    At the moment, the enforceability of existing pre-nuptial agreements in the courts is decided on a case by case basis and family law judges are not bound to divide the assets according to these agreements.

    so they're not necessarily legally binding anyway so what's the point?


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    #10
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Sky King wrote: »
    Maybe the only thing keeping people in a sh!tty marriage is the idea that they might have to sell all their stuff to pay off some hoebag of a wife (....or husband!!) if they split up.

    I'd say that's quite likely. Been loads of threads in the relationship issues forum from guys saying they are in sexless marriages/have a cheating wife/don't love her/are unhappy/etc. People say "well leave her for fvck sake" and the response is "I can't afford to keep paying a mortgage on a house I'm not living in, pay maintenence, as well as rent somewhere else".

    A fair number of guys (and girls too I'm sure) that are in unhappy marriages don't seek divorce cause it'd cripple them financially to exit the marriage, I'd say.


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    #11
    DoYouEvenLift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    Getting married, lol


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    #12
    tritium
    Registered Users Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭tritium


    I'm pretty OK with legally enforceable pre nups. The idea that someone is entitled to half of everything you've ever worked for based on zero contribution on their part is silly.


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    #13
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,959 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    edword wrote: »
    marriages with pre nup agreements signed by both parties are statistically more likely to end in divorce, so i think farmers are being a bit short sighted here because by ensisting on pre nups you are increasing the likelihood or odds that their wife will eventually divorce them. have to wonder what theyre hiding really, but they havent earned a reputation for being greedy for nothing

    Well that's the tail wagging the dog. It's an understandable but wholly spurious use of statistics.

    People who suspect they are marrying a gold digger are more likely to get a prenup and some of them are bound to be correct so that's going to add bias to the stats. People who have a specific asset that they want to protect (farmers) are likely to be slightly different to the norm which will include 60 year old, recent lotto winners who marry a 25 year old and surprises surprise get both a prenup and a divorce.


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    #14
    LadyAthame
    Closed Accounts Posts: 793 ✭✭✭LadyAthame


    edword wrote: »
    marriages with pre nup agreements signed by both parties are statistically more likely to end in divorce, so i think farmers are being a bit short sighted here because by ensisting on pre nups you are increasing the likelihood or odds that their wife will eventually divorce them. have to wonder what theyre hiding really, but they havent earned a reputation for being greedy for nothing
    That's not true.
    Only 5% of divorces that occur in the United States have a prenuptial agreement. 49% of US marriages end in divorce. Only five to ten % of people in the US get a pre-nup. That means only half or less of those who get pre-nups will end up divorced. Which is the same as the rest of the couples who don't.

    I would say people who go through divorces are statistically more likely to regret not having a pre-nup. I have seen some pretty messed up things simply because it was never agreed what would happen to property before hand.

    They are practical documents rather than cynical safety nets. They ensure children are provided for.They often make a difference between the marriage that lasts one year and the one that lasts fifteen years and produces three kids and they should. Fair pre-nups can be a positive thing. They can have in-fidelity clauses.

    It can save on party from the debts of another.Prenuptial agreements are often thought to be about wealth, but a prenup can also protect someone against a spouse who is entering a marriage with a lot of debt. It can limit liablity for certain things.

    It clearly defines division of assets.It's sad but true, love doesn't always last. At least it makes couples talk about money. It's a squirmy touchy subject.

    And legalizing them does not force all couples to.



    If you are determined for your marriage to succeed then don't let it get in the way and work at it. But saying that a pre-nup would make you more likely to divorce is not a sign of a strong relationship. Marriage is hard. It will be hard. It will be awful at times. Don't delude yourself. You could stipulate counselling etc before divorce.

    I think there is a social stigma to them.


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    #15
    Grays Sports Almanac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭Grays Sports Almanac


    efb wrote: »
    Why marry then if you want a pre-nup?

    One of the rules of marriage is shared ownership

    But em...when you stop being married, why would you still want to share everything?


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    #16
    The Diabolical Monocle
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭The Diabolical Monocle


    Don't marry.


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    #17
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,666 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    It's probably a good idea

    Obviously whatever a couple build together should be split evenly with appropriate adjustments if there's kids involved, but if there's a significant difference between what both had at the start, then it makes sense.
    While we might all like to think, and hope, that marriage is for life there's any number of reasons why that might not turn out to be true.. and not necessarily because one side cheats.


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    #18
    Lt J.R. Bell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Lt J.R. Bell


    efb wrote: »
    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/seven-out-of-ten-farmers-want-prenup-agreements-31171750.html

    Farmers getting cold feet? Maybe it's the wellies!

    Farmers looking for prenup!

    Would you blame them?.Plenty of gold diggas about

    Once the children are provided for, pre nups should come into existence. Also, shorter divorce law periods. 4 years is crazy


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    #19
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,670 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »
    Would you blame them?.Plenty of gold diggas about


    Well anyone would be stupid to rush into marriage then surely without really getting to know the person first, and if you're bringing material assets into the marriage, then you're making certain vows, and those vows have to mean something. Pre-nup agreements totally devalue the meaning of these vows, leading to a situation like in the States where people simply don't take their marriages seriously because they know they always have an easy get-out clause if they have a pre-nup.

    Once the children are provided for, pre nups should come into existence. Also, shorter divorce law periods. 4 years is crazy


    This I actually agree with, four years is ridiculous to be waiting for a decree of divorce.


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    #20
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    efb wrote: »
    Why marry then if you want a pre-nup?

    One of the rules of marriage is shared ownership

    Do you think thats how it work when it gets to the divorce courts?

    If it is then why does the perception exist that women are favoured by the courts more than men in these cases?


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    #21
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Well anyone would be stupid to rush into marriage then surely without really getting to know the person first, and if you're bringing material assets into the marriage, then you're making certain vows, and those vows have to mean something. Pre-nup agreements totally devalue the meaning of these vows, leading to a situation like in the States where people simply don't take their marriages seriously because they know they always have an easy get-out clause if they have a pre-nup.





    This I actually agree with, four years is ridiculous to be waiting for a decree of divorce.

    People change, particularly where there's large quantities of money involved. What you say is true to a point but goes completely out the window when divorce proceedings kick off.


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    #22
    RhubarbCrumble
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,174 ✭✭✭RhubarbCrumble


    edword wrote: »
    have to wonder what theyre hiding really, but they havent earned a reputation for being greedy for nothing

    Not so much greedy I would say as mean, and I'm speaking from experience.


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    #23
    facing_west
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 20 ✭facing_west


    RhubarbCrumble wrote: »
    Not so much greedy I would say as mean, and I'm speaking from experience.

    what could be more mean than thinking you are entitled to half of something you never paid for or created ?

    any man with significant assets takes a big risk getting married today , such is the overwhelming bias by the courts against men in these cirucumstances


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    #24
    LadyAthame
    Closed Accounts Posts: 793 ✭✭✭LadyAthame


    facing_west wrote: »

    any man with significant assets takes a big risk getting married today , such is the overwhelming bias by the courts against men in these cirucumstances

    I agree with recognizing pre nups etc but no one is forcing them to marry.


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    #25
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    LadyAthame wrote: »
    No one is forcing them to marry.


    what is the problem with somebody protecting their assets before they enter a legally binding agreement?


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    #26
    LadyAthame
    Closed Accounts Posts: 793 ✭✭✭LadyAthame


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    what is the problem with somebody protecting their assets before they enter a legally binding agreement?
    I agree with recognizing pre nups ...i have no issue with it /them..i..i still think the ...a plague will befall his house reaction to marriage in general is over the top


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    #27
    facing_west
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 20 ✭facing_west


    LadyAthame wrote: »
    I agree with recognizing pre nups etc but no one is forcing them to marry.

    your rationalising a culture of grotesque entitlement


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    #28
    LadyAthame
    Closed Accounts Posts: 793 ✭✭✭LadyAthame


    facing_west wrote: »
    your rationalising a culture of grotesque entitlement
    By saying pre-nups should be recognized?


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    #29
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    facing_west wrote: »
    your rationalising a culture of grotesque entitlement

    you are going to have to explain that one.


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    #30
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    efb wrote: »
    One of the rules of marriage is shared ownership
    Another one is it has to be between a man and a woman. I take it that you consider gay marriage a bad idea too?
    LadyAthame wrote: »
    I agree with recognizing pre nups etc but no one is forcing them to marry.
    If you cohabit with someone for five years (two if there's a child in the mix), you already will have the financial obligations foisted on you, automatically. If unmarried, you are in a severe disadvantage in terms of rights to your child (naturally only if you're a man) or taxation.

    So there is more than a little coercion taking place where it comes to marriage, and that is before one considers the social coercion that's long been present.


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    #31
    facing_west
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 20 ✭facing_west


    LadyAthame wrote: »
    By saying pre-nups should be recognized?

    by trotting out a line like

    " no one is forcing them to marry "


    like saying no one is forced to be a rally driver so if they get hurt , its their own fault effectively


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