A bad smell in the air.....

excollier

anyone smell a (very big ) rat?
http://openness.microsoft.com/blog/2015/04/21/microsoft-debian-8-linuxfest/

Tom Dunne

It's just a sales event for Microsoft Azure.

Nothing more than than Microsoft finally realising that "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em".

They have a load of Linux images available for use on Azure, this is just adding another one to the list, so they saw an opportunity to jump on the bandwagon to promote Azure.

L.Jenkins

I can see it becoming a wing of MS if under a different name. The open source server market would be an interesting one if MS were to join in and it wouldn't surprise me with Oracle and Redhat supplying the market in some way.

Johnboy1951

..... and those who see nothing to worry about in this must have very short memories ....

Not even 20 pieces of silver, just a few slices of cake ...... nice one MS ...

mass_debater

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer

Tom Dunne

Am I missing something?

I really don't see the issue here. Amazon also offer a large selection of Linux images for their cloud service.

mass_debater

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Am I missing something?

I really don't see the issue here. Amazon also offer a large selection of Linux images for their cloud service.

In one hand they claim to be embracing the open source movement, in the other they are members of the secure boot and uefi cartel

Kavrocks

mass_debater wrote: »

In one hand they claim to be embracing the open source movement, in the other they are members of the secure boot and uefi cartel

I dont see what the issue with UEFI is. Secure Boot ok but UEFI seems like a good progression.

excollier

But MS are pushing in the direction of allowing manufacturers to not be compelled include the secure boot switch facility - effectively closing hardware to anything other than Windows. Unless, of course, you are willing to pay extra for your hardware to be switchable so it will accept Linux or BSD or whatever else isn't Windows.
Anti-competitive - you bet, but without dirtying their hands.

Kavrocks

excollier wrote: »

But MS are pushing in the direction of allowing manufacturers to not be compelled include the secure boot switch facility

Wasn't that a rumour which was backtracked on a week after it was first reported?

excollier

No smoke without fire........

mass_debater

No option to disable it on Arm hardware

gctest50

excollier wrote: »

Anti-competitive - you bet, but without dirtying their hands.

but the Debian app for Windows10 runs well, loads .debs really quickly

excollier

Maybe they truly believe that they own your hardware.

excollier

gctest50 wrote: »

but the Debian app for Windows10 runs well, loads .debs really quickly

But what if I don't want Windows in future? I don't have a trace of it now, and don't want it in future.
Why should MS have the power to make me pay extra for hardware they neither own nor manufacture?
If others want Windows, fine, but no-one should be penalised for not wanting it.
Anyway, this cosying up to Debian is more than a little creepy.

Kavrocks

This escalated into a rant about Microsoft quickly.

excollier

If the cap fits. There's a lot to rant about, but I'll let it rest there

gctest50

excollier wrote: »

But what if I don't want Windows in future?............

when the revolution comes we will all drive Mercedes

what if i don't want to drive a Mercedes

when the revolution comes you won't have a choice etc

moc moc a moc

excollier wrote: »

There's a lot to rant about, but I'll let it rest there

Good. I'm sick of people ranting about Microsoft as though they are the second coming of Hitler. Grow up and discuss facts, not FUD.

Johnboy1951

moc moc a moc wrote: »

Good. I'm sick of people ranting about Microsoft as though they are the second coming of Hitler. Grow up and discuss facts, not FUD.

That would be nice ....... could we get the same commitment from the MS FUD spreaders?

Is it not reasonable to react to FUD to attempt to correct it?

http://techrights.org/2015/04/27/more-blackmail-and-propaganda/

Tom Dunne

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

http://techrights.org/2015/04/27/more-blackmail-and-propaganda/

I don't think I've ever read a tech article that is so hysterical.

It's full of hearsay and hysteria:

Some say that Microsoft is developing software to wipe Android from Android devices and install Windows instead.

Microsoft’s booster Julie Bort helps an anti-Android company right now

Seriously? What's an anti-Android company? Apple?

This kind of hysterical anti-Microsoft drivel does nothing other than reinforce jaded stereotypes of rabid Microsoft haters.

Johnboy1951

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I don't think I've ever read a tech article that is so hysterical.

It's full of hearsay and hysteria:





Seriously? What's an anti-Android company? Apple?

This kind of hysterical anti-Microsoft drivel does nothing other than reinforce jaded stereotypes of rabid Microsoft haters.

As I pointed out that is what you are going to get when the likes of MS and its supporters/fan-boys refer to other OSs as cancer and other such FUD.

As an aside .... I have no idea how anyone could actually hate an OS ...... seems rather hysterical to use 'hate' in that regard.

syklops

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

As an aside .... I have no idea how anyone could actually hate an OS ...... seems rather hysterical to use 'hate' in that regard.

Does that mean you also can't love an OS?

Johnboy1951

syklops wrote: »

Does that mean you also can't love an OS?

It most definitely does ....... and also means I have no idea how anyone could 'love' any OS.

Tom Dunne

I wonder if I'd love my Lenovo Yoga even more if it ran Linux.

syklops

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I wonder if I'd love my Lenovo Yoga even more if it ran Linux.

I love all my Lenovo devices. They run a mixture of android and linux.

L.Jenkins

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I wonder if I'd love my Lenovo Yoga even more if it ran Linux.

syklops wrote: »

I love all my Lenovo devices. They run a mixture of android and linux.

The best Lenovo of all is the one that has had some minor cosmetic work carried out with the use of a hammer!

4512

Probly ****e

syklops

Itzy wrote: »

The best Lenovo of all is the one that has had some minor cosmetic work carried out with the use of a hammer!

This should be good.

Why?

L.Jenkins

syklops wrote: »

This should be good.

Why?

Firstly, I've had two through work and the design of both doesn't exactly appeal to me. Looks a bit too blocky. On the other hand, they perform well, but that's not something that would hook my interest.

I'd rather a top end HP or Alienware Machine, as they both perform very well and look good. The only downside being the price.

mass_debater

Itzy wrote: »

Firstly, I've had two through work and the design of both doesn't exactly appeal to me. Looks a bit too blocky. On the other hand, they perform well, but that's not something that would hook my interest.

I'd rather a top end HP or Alienware Machine, as they both perform very well and look good. The only downside being the price.

I was going to take you seriously until you said Alienware, that's just a Dell with go faster stripes. You do realise Lenovo bought the HP ThinkPad division

Tom Dunne

mass_debater wrote: »

You do realise Lenovo bought the HP ThinkPad division

Lenovo bought the IBM computer division, including the laptop rights.

Details here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo#Mergers_and_acquisitions

syklops

Itzy wrote: »

Firstly, I've had two through work and the design of both doesn't exactly appeal to me. Looks a bit too blocky. On the other hand, they perform well, but that's not something that would hook my interest.

I'd rather a top end HP or Alienware Machine, as they both perform very well and look good. The only downside being the price.

Performing well doesn't hook your interest?

Ok.

I had an Alienware. It was terrible and weighed a ton.

mass_debater

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Lenovo bought the IBM computer division, including the laptop rights.

Details here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo#Mergers_and_acquisitions

I knew that, not sure how I mixed that up

PrzemoF

"Microsoft’s commitment to openness and transparency is ingrained in our day-to-day approach to doing business alongside industry partners, including open source communities. To be successful in a mobile-first, cloud-first world, we need to be open. It’s good for our customers and our business"

I can't stop laughing!!!! :-D

I missed the memo that MS bought words "openness" and "transparency" and changed their meaning!

Tom Dunne

PrzemoF wrote: »

I missed the memo that MS bought words "openness" and "transparency" and changed their meaning!

In fairness, the company has done a huge u-turn on so many things since the new guy was appointed last year. Case in point: giving away Windows 10 free when it is released later this year. That would have been unthinkable up to very recently.

Yes, I think history has proven that you take a lot of what Microsoft says with a large pinch of salt when it comes to openness and transparency. However, I do think we are in a period of change for Microsoft as they come to terms with the reality of the modern IT market.

Johnboy1951

Tom Dunne wrote: »

In fairness, the company has done a huge u-turn on so many things since the new guy was appointed last year. Case in point: giving away Windows 10 free when it is released later this year. That would have been unthinkable up to very recently.

Just a corporate strategy to try to calm the angry Win 8 users.
They have not changed their aims or attitudes.

Yes, I think history has proven that you take a lot of what Microsoft says with a large pinch of salt when it comes to openness and transparency. However, I do think we are in a period of change for Microsoft as they come to terms with the reality of the modern IT market.

MS are definitely changing their corporate strategy, and even mouthing apparently correct words ....... but so far it has gone no further than that in any significant way.

There is no indication it is anything other than that, and even if it appeared more, one year is not sufficient to wipe out the decades of 'bad behaviour'.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/microsoft-clarifies-who-gets-free-windows-10-114730456889.html

Tom Dunne

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Just a corporate strategy to try to calm the angry Win 8 users.

While I don't want to turn this into a discussion about Microsoft strategy, calming angry Windows 8 users is possibly as far from the reality of the situation as you can get.

What is actually happening is that Microsoft is shifting to a subscription model for as much as they can. They realise that Windows operating system is no longer the cash-cow it once was, the future is in services such as office 365, azure, Xbox and many more besides.

PrzemoF

I heard about that guy, but giving closed source software for free is anti-openness in my dictionary. It gives nothing to the open source community, instead it keeps some users that "sit on the fence" of the open source on the ms side. Unfortunately word "free" in English has 2 meanings (I feel like RMS is watching over my shoulder what I'm typing here...), so it's easy to call something a free software even if it has nothing to do with "free like freedom" software.

Tom Dunne

PrzemoF wrote: »

I heard about that guy, but giving closed source software for free is anti-openness in my dictionary.

I honestly don't think Microsoft executives stay awake at night worrying that their purely commercial decision to give away Windows 10 is "anti-openess".

I don't think the concept of open source even registers on their radar.

However, trying to spin what they are doing as somehow anti-Linux/anti-open source displays a fundamental misunderstanding of market forces and the direction in which the broader ICT industry is moving. It's a strategic decision based purely on the premise of increasing revenue streams through getting people/companies to pay a smaller monthly/yearly premium rather than buying software outright.

It's pure economics.

PrzemoF

"MICROSOFT reportedly threatened to move its research facilities out of the UK if the government went ahead with plans to promote open source standards."

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2409808/microsoft-bullied-mps-over-government-switch-to-open-source-standards

It's hard to belive that changing one guy, even in the key position, could trickle down the ladder and change the way of thinking in the whole company that was built on having monopoly.

excollier

I hope the horrible, greedy, monopolistic, bullying ballbags clear off and take their proprietary ball home with them.

Nonmonotonic

Déjà Vu.

Johnboy1951

I am, and have been, surprised that some group/company/whatever of the Linux community has not forced MS, to either put up or shut up, about multiple patent infringements etc.

It seems obvious that over the years such claims were meant to, and did, do damage to the reputation and acceptance of 'Linux'.

If those were false claims, designed only to harm, there must surely have been a legal means of forcing a closure.

excollier

M$ will never really change. They want it all and will resort to any tactics to achieve it.

L.Jenkins

excollier wrote: »

M$ will never really change. They want it all and will resort to any tactics to achieve it.

They're a business at the end of the day and not a charitable organisation set up for the betterment of man and the IT world. So anything they do, good or bad wouldn't surprise me.