Are BMW really worth the bad things people say?

sdanseo

I'm driving around ten years, and my second car is on life support at the minute, I'm trying to get rid of it with the hope of trading up. I started with a 1.2L Corsa, moved on up to the 1.6 Vectra, and now I'm looking at something a little fancier and pokier. I've about €5,000 to €7,000 to spend, and have always wanted a BMW. In what I presume to be logical order, I've started looking at E90 316, 318 and 320's, in either fuel type. I've toyed with an E46 520d or E90 520i as well but I'm aware the running costs might be a little above my comfort zone.

Everyone around me seems to think I've taken leave of my senses.

BMW's, if I believe my family and friends, are trouble, more effort than they're worth, crap in the snow, more expensive than just about anything else, and to quote the most recent critic "you'd better have huge money to fix it when it goes wrong".

My question is, for someone who's kinda always wanted a beamer, and at 26 and with insurance well under €500 as it stands (and that's after recent increases) - is there any reason I shouldn't be looking at these?

Opinions (and of course alternatives) from the boards.ie petrolhead division really appreciated.

CianRyan

316 and 318 should't be an option, you're only paying for a badge. Other than that, **** the haters and carry on.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Avoid the 316. Paid 5k for one, and that again in repairs in the time I had it. Might sound silly, but every time someone told me "thats all the known problems, nothing else can go wrong"... it did

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

Ideally you'd be getting a straight six. An E46 325i coupe would be tasty, but the tax is €1080.

CianRyan

Yeah, I'd have an E46 325 over an E90 320.

CharlieCroker

Stick with the E39 5 series or the E46 3 series. They were better built IMO and petrol ones can be got for handy money these days. I'd also recommend a 6 cylinder petrol if your not doing much mileage.

sdanseo

Not doing terribly much mileage, no. Looking at about 200-250km a week.

One of the main things that struck me between E39/46 and E90/60 is the design difference, which is what makes me want the newer models. I think they're equally attractive outside, but the interior lets the older models down, from my acceptably uneducated view at least. From a driving perspective, having never got behind the wheel of any of the above, is the experience better in the older models as well as reliability?

I'm like the idea of taking the car out for a pure drive of a day off, maybe clocking up a good few miles just for the spin on proper driving roads, but I want to get as many creature comforts (A/C, Auto, Cruise, Heated everything) as I can into my budget while maintaining a reasonable reliability, if only because I'm used to driving pure crap. I'm willing to consider pretty much anything that isn't French, it doesn't have to be a BMW - I've just kinda always had a hankering for an E90/E60.

One note about automatic - while it seems nice, I don't want it to ruin the driving experience or poke a hole in the petrol tank either. Is an automatic BMW a total sin from an enthusiast's perspective?

unkel

sdanseo wrote: »

Everyone around me seems to think I've taken leave of my senses.

That reminds me

I used to own nearly new Japanese cars 20 years ago (like most people in this country) but I got bored with them. I was never a BMW fan but I came across an interesting car, a V8 5-series about 15 years ago. It had 106k miles on it and all the people around me thought I was crazy buying a German car with that huge mileage on it. It was surely about to die! Why didn't I buy another Starlet, Micra, Avensis, Primera or Corolla like all the rest of them and like I used to?

I bought it and the car was superb. Thank feck I've never looked back and I have owned some lovely V8 and straight 6 engined petrol cars. Most of them bought for very little money and no, I've never had any major problems costing big money with any of them

Foxhole Norman

sdanseo wrote: »

Not doing terribly much mileage, no. Looking at about 200-250km a week.

One of the main things that struck me between E39/46 and E90/60 is the design difference, which is what makes me want the newer models. I think they're equally attractive outside, but the interior lets the older models down, from my acceptably uneducated view at least. From a driving perspective, having never got behind the wheel of any of the above, is the experience better in the older models as well as reliability?

I'm like the idea of taking the car out for a pure drive of a day off, maybe clocking up a good few miles just for the spin on proper driving roads, but I want to get as many creature comforts (A/C, Auto, Cruise, Heated everything) as I can into my budget while maintaining a reasonable reliability, if only because I'm used to driving pure crap. I'm willing to consider pretty much anything that isn't French, it doesn't have to be a BMW - I've just kinda always had a hankering for an E90/E60.

One note about automatic - while it seems nice, I don't want it to ruin the driving experience or poke a hole in the petrol tank either. Is an automatic BMW a total sin from an enthusiast's perspective?

I've owned an E39 525i Sport Automatic for the last 7 months or so. People thought I was mad to be buying a BMW with such a big engine but once they're in it, they love it.

Mine has a decent spec on it for a 13 year old car that could put some modern cars to shame. Mine has DVD/TV/NAV, PDC, Cruise, Dual Zone Climate/A/C, Leather Interior, Bluetooth including A2DP,everything you'd really want. The automatic in my view is fantastic, it's a bit jerky when cold but once it's heated up a bit it's seriously smooth. I don't think it detracts too much from the experience as there's still the optional Manual Sport mode in it and with the ability to add Flappy Paddles to it makes it even better.

The older cars, the E46 and E39 have pretty bulletproof engines, the best of which being the 2.5 and 3.0 M54 engined cars. They also, in my book, look much better than the newer E60's/E90's.

CianRyan

unkel wrote: »

That reminds me

I used to own nearly new Japanese cars 20 years ago (like most people in this country) but I got bored with them. I was never a BMW fan but I came across an interesting car, a V8 5-series about 15 years ago. It had 106k miles on it and all the people around me thought I was crazy buying a German car with that huge mileage on it. It was surely about to die! Why didn't I buy another Starlet, Micra, Avensis, Primera or Corolla like all the rest of them and like I used to?

I bought it and the car was superb. Thank feck I've never looked back and I have owned some lovely V8 and straight 6 engined petrol cars. Most of them bought for very little money and no, I've never had any major problems costing big money with any of them

Ah now, come on out of that.
They're fantastic cars but be honest here, your heart was broken over your turbos. Haha

Hachiko

sdanseo wrote: »

I'm driving around ten years, and my second car is on life support at the minute, I'm trying to get rid of it with the hope of trading up. I started with a 1.2L Corsa, moved on up to the 1.6 Vectra, and now I'm looking at something a little fancier and pokier. I've about €5,000 to €7,000 to spend, and have always wanted a BMW. In what I presume to be logical order, I've started looking at E90 316, 318 and 320's, in either fuel type. I've toyed with an E46 520d or E90 520i as well but I'm aware the running costs might be a little above my comfort zone.

Everyone around me seems to think I've taken leave of my senses.

BMW's, if I believe my family and friends, are trouble, more effort than they're worth, crap in the snow, more expensive than just about anything else, and to quote the most recent critic "you'd better have huge money to fix it when it goes wrong".

My question is, for someone who's kinda always wanted a beamer, and at 26 and with insurance well under €500 as it stands (and that's after recent increases) - is there any reason I shouldn't be looking at these?

Opinions (and of course alternatives) from the boards.ie petrolhead division really appreciated.

dont get a 316 or a 318 for the love of god.

I am sure BMWs are reliable once they are maintained, I am put off cars with Turbos so tend to avoid large CC BMWs and Audis for that matter. Don't think a 320 has a turbo if that is something you wanted. I wouldn't take much notice of your family, all you need is a car that has been looked after and has adequate services.

Foxhole Norman

Hachiko wrote: »

dont get a 316 or a 318 for the love of god.

I am sure BMWs are reliable once they are maintained, I am put off cars with Turbos so tend to avoid large CC BMWs and Audis for that matter. Don't think a 320 has a turbo if that is something you wanted. I wouldn't take much notice of your family, all you need is a car that has been looked after and has adequate services.

Is it bad that I bought my 13 year old 5 series with absolutely zero service history? :pac:

Toyotafanboi

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

I've owned an E39 525i Sport Automatic for the last 7 months or so. People thought I was mad to be buying a BMW with such a big engine but once they're in it, they love it.

Mine has a decent spec on it for a 13 year old car that could put some modern cars to shame. Mine has DVD/TV/NAV, PDC, Cruise, Dual Zone Climate/A/C, Leather Interior, Bluetooth including A2DP,everything you'd really want. The automatic in my view is fantastic, it's a bit jerky when cold but once it's heated up a bit it's seriously smooth. I don't think it detracts too much from the experience as there's still the optional Manual Sport mode in it and with the ability to add Flappy Paddles to it makes it even better.

The older cars, the E46 and E39 have pretty bulletproof engines, the best of which being the 2.5 and 3.0 M54 engined cars. They also, in my book, look much better than the newer E60's/E90's.

Worth noting that yours spent like a month off the road recently with an electrical gremlin. As an enthusiast it didnt phase you too much, but someone buying a car to rely on would be more than a little bothered by that.

Foxhole Norman

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Worth noting that yours spent like a month off the road recently with an electrical gremlin. As an enthusiast it didnt phase you too much, but someone buying a car to rely on would be more than a little bothered by that.

It was 3 weeks off the road due to negligence, the fuses were supposed to have been checked, they weren't.

Toyotafanboi

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

It was 3 weeks off the road due to negligence, the fuses were supposed to have been checked, they weren't.

I've never had to periodically check the fuses in any of my cars?

Either way, just saying. That would be a big deal for a lot of people.

magentis

You should have a look at the newer shape petrol 5 series op.I have spent alot of time in both and the newer shape interior is a far nicer place to be than the old one.

porsche boy

I had a E39 a few years back and loved it. The purr from the straight six, the solid build quality, comfy interior... The list goes on. Look at the E60 520. It's a 2.2, not hugely powerful but lovely to drive. Don't try and rag it, accept it's a cruse and drive it accordingly. You'll be a very happy man.

RUNNER 1

I had both 316 and 318 , nothing but problems with 316, 318 was a grand car never had any problems had a 98 and a 02 versions

Icaras

Had a 320 and 318 both low milage when I sold them (80k) but besides from teething problems when buying the 320 never had any issue. Serviced it every 10k to 15k.

Foxhole Norman

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I've never had to periodically check the fuses in any of my cars?

Either way, just saying. That would be a big deal for a lot of people.

Neither have I, just when there's an electrical fault they're the first thing that should be checked, in this case they didn't, otherwise it wouldve been resolved day 1.

But other than that and the radiator going it's been faultless.

CianRyan

It seems BMW drivers are lovers of rose tinted glasses. Haha

challengemaster

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I've never had to periodically check the fuses in any of my cars?

Either way, just saying. That would be a big deal for a lot of people.

I think what he means is that the first auto electrician he brought it to should have done their job right. First thing in an electrics problem that should have been checked would be the fuses. Obviously it wasn't.

Regularly checking fuses and electric systems is only for french cars

adocholiday

I currently drive a 2002 e46 318ci and I think it's a great car. I know it's only a 4 cylinder and that it lacks a lot of power but it was the right car at the right time for me. Never regretted buying it. Like anything else there are great cars out there but how they have been looked after is the key. If someone hasn't maintained car, regardless of what make it is, then you will likely have issues with it.

The only problem I've had with my e46 to date is the fuel pump packing in that cost €280 to fix, and the airbag light came on in the dash which I had fixed for €50. The reason people say that BMWs are so expensive to fix is because they are if you have the servicing/repairs done by BMW. The fuel pump repair was going to be €450 with BMW and the airbag light fix I was quoted €600! Get the name of a good indy mechanic (Valdas in Ballymount if you're in the Dublin area is highly recommended) and your maintenance costs will be very much on par with any car.

Toyotafanboi

Tl;dr - Aside from all the trouble, they are fairly trouble free :-)

Foxhole Norman

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Tl;dr - Aside from all the trouble, they are fairly trouble free :-)

Basically :pac:

Sammy_Jankis

Have owned a BMW e46 325ci for just over a year and have had absolutely no problems with it.

It had the cooling system replaced before I bought it (seems to be a common problem) and a full service.
Since then it has just had two new tyres, oil and filter changed.

I check the oil and coolant every month as it is 12 years old but that's about it. I average 36mpg which I think is fantastic coming from an rx8!

jca

challengemaster wrote: »

I think what he means is that the first auto electrician he brought it to should have done their job right. First thing in an electrics problem that should have been checked would be the fuses. Obviously it wasn't.

Regularly checking fuses and electric systems is only for french cars

Incorrect, the first thing to check when chasing an electrical problem is the battery and it's connections especially if it lives in the boot.

unkel

CianRyan wrote: »

Ah now, come on out of that.
They're fantastic cars but be honest here, your heart was broken over your turbos. Haha

All my BMWs have been petrol. And normally breathing. No turbos there at all

nc19

sdanseo wrote:

My question is, for someone who's kinda always wanted a beamer, and at 26 and with insurance well under €500 as it stands (and that's after recent increases) - is there any reason I shouldn't be looking at these?

Can you afford, nay will you bother with proper yearly servicing and maintenance???
Also, before you buy it get the tyre size (front and rear) and get some prices....might change your mind then.

Couldn't tell you the amount of idiots who bought bmws for the perceived prestige and are now driving around on shıte......

saabsaab

Had a 316tdi. Engine good, bodywork electrics fine, suspension needed parts often cost a bit to fix and hard on tyres too. If getting one get it checked out first..

CianRyan

unkel wrote: »

All my BMWs have been petrol. And normally breathing. No turbos there at all

Sorry! I thought I was replying to MM for some reason.
I laughed at the thought of him having no issues with his BMWs. :pac:

Their NA cars are much more reliable.

sdanseo

Cheers for the reply lads. Seems a 316/318 probably best avoided. I'm not thinking a 320d or 320i as I don't think I can justify the tax on anything larger than 2.0 or possibly 2.2 when I factor in finance repayments (already sorted and drawn down) as well as a hike in insurance and petrol.

Anyone around my age any experience moving from 1.6 midsize to a car like this able to offer any expectation of insurance cost before I ring Liberty and haggle?

nc19 wrote: »

Can you afford, nay will you bother with proper yearly servicing and maintenance???
Also, before you buy it get the tyre size (front and rear) and get some prices....might change your mind then.

Couldn't tell you the amount of idiots who bought bmws for the perceived prestige and are now driving around on shıte......

Reasonable running costs aren't a problem. I'm used to having to have a car taxed, fueled, tested and serviced as well as the odd unexpected issue, what I don't want to do is buy a lemon amongst a market of cars which seem to have a reputation for being lemons.

As for tyres, I've always tried to go midrange, currently running on Rikens which I'm told are Michelin made and quite reasonable. I can promise you I won't be putting Sunny tyres on a BMW.

landmarkjohn

I wouldn't dis the 2006 318i E90 completely.... we have one in the family and yes, it has had coil failure 3 times which is a PITA. The thing to do if you are really concerned is replace all 4 coils and plugs with an independent (€300 at a guess) and be done with it. Apart from the coil issue I think they are pretty reliable.

Get a minimum SE spec, sun roof, rear sensors, Xenons, Climate , leather in a good colour combination with good wheels and you have a decent car. Ours is the 129BHP version as opposed to later 143BHP but it is a good drive and I could easily live with it.

sdanseo

Sold my soul to the BMW devil and put a deposit on a 320i E90 today. Gorgeous car, unfortunately have to wait till tomorrow week to collect. Cheers to all here for the input, I did try out a couple of diesels and look at some E46 but the purr of petrol and the style on the E90 was too much for me :cool:

It's gonna be a long week.

CianRyan

sdanseo wrote: »

Sold my soul to the BMW devil and put a deposit on a 320i E90 today. Gorgeous car, unfortunately have to wait till tomorrow week to collect. Cheers to all here for the input, I did try out a couple of diesels and look at some E46 but the purr of petrol and the style on the E90 was too much for me :cool:

It's gonna be a long week.

Congrats, man!
We'll expect pictures from every angle.

sdanseo

CianRyan wrote: »

Congrats, man!
We'll expect pictures from every angle.

Stop, I'm already on the verge of turning most of my remaining money into car related stuff. I've a wish list with a new head unit, legal german plates and new door handles, because the small bit of wear on them is literally the car's only imperfection.

Hopefully.

Foxhole Norman

Congrats! It'll probably break your heart but it'll be worth it in the end :pac:

sdanseo

Twist in the tale.

Had the AA inspect the car and they reckon there's some damp on the steering rack as well as a slight rattle from the torque converter on the auto box. Apparently these can be a tricky repair and eventually go on every car.
Has anyone experience in getting dealers to rectify things like this? Dealer says the labour isn't a problem and seems willing to fix this but short of paying another 249 for it to be inspected again is there any way to know the job has been done satisfactorily?

Kinda had my heart set on this, but should I run a mile or is this just par for the course?

Foxhole Norman

sdanseo wrote: »

Twist in the tale.

Had the AA inspect the car and they reckon there's some damp on the steering rack as well as a slight rattle from the torque converter on the auto box. Apparently these can be a tricky repair and eventually go on every car.
Has anyone experience in getting dealers to rectify things like this? Dealer says the labour isn't a problem and seems willing to fix this but short of paying another 249 for it to be inspected again is there any way to know the job has been done satisfactorily?

Kinda had my heart set on this, but should I run a mile or is this just par for the course?

If the dealer would sort them FOC I'd go for it other than that, run, Torque converter is not something you want going.

sdanseo

Looking around, and there are plenty more 318's than 320's on the market it seems.

What is inherently wrong with the 318 (whatever about the smaller engine in the 316) that's so bad? From what I can see the major difference is the five-speed gearbox as opposed to the superior six-speed. Both 2.0L fourpots?

landmarkjohn

sdanseo wrote: »

Looking around, and there are plenty more 318's than 320's on the market it seems.

What is inherently wrong with the 318 (whatever about the smaller engine in the 316) that's so bad? From what I can see the major difference is the five-speed gearbox as opposed to the superior six-speed. Both 2.0L fourpots?

Nothing IMO, the 318i has plenty of power and speed to get you into trouble. I believe you may find the 316i a little bit gutless for motorway driving. Real world driving is what you need to think about and for Irish conditions the 318i is more than adequate. If you were spending 5 days a week commuting on a German autobahn you might have the need for the extra power in a 320i....:)

DoctorStrange

4cly cheaper on fuel and tax but not as reliable - make sure you get a good one. A good one will cost more to buy.

A €250 AA inspection might save you a lot of money in the future. I don't know how much a torque converter costs - worth pricing.

Very easy to see a nice car and 'fall in love' but probably better to wait for the right one to come along - there are plenty of 318's around.

They come up for sale on the BMW driver forums now and again - often these will cost more but be in better condition. Look out for modifications as this can affect your insurance.

I bought a 325 a few months ago - glad I went with that over the 318.

Do you have a link to the car(s) you're looking at?

Hachiko

a 323i would be a better option, or a petrol lexus which will never go wrong.

and where did this come from? thats new to me and I have a been driving a bit.

Apparently these can be a tricky repair and eventually go on every car.

fran oconnor

Any ideas what these BMW 520's are like just having a look on don't deal etc seen this one for instance. Is this mileage to high? http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-5-series-520d-se-nct-d-06-16-tax-d/9292565

unkel

Very expensive for what it is. You can get a 520i for half that money. Do you really need a diesel / do you do big mileage?

fran oconnor

unkel wrote: »

Very expensive for what it is. You can get a 520i for half that money. Do you really need a diesel / do you do big mileage?

don't do massive mileage tbh, but I'm not really sure on BMW tbh. Don't what they are like on juice tax etc. I'm mulling over so many different cars tbh, trying to keep an open mind to all.

Foxhole Norman

525i 6 Cylinder Petrol on cheap (€750) tax.

https://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-5-series-525i-se-sat-nav-sunroof-/9038206

sdanseo

Foxhole Norman wrote: »

525i 6 Cylinder Petrol on cheap (€750) tax.

https://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-5-series-525i-se-sat-nav-sunroof-/9038206

That's on old tax. Regime changed July 2008.

As regards my own - AA had flagged the TC, some damp on the steering assembly, as well as the fact that tax went from annual to quarterly and then to none at all since this time last year. A few panels had also been painted but in the engineer's opinion never crashed or anything like that - in his words, apart from the two jobs needing doing, mechanically sound. We've been reassured by the dealer and he's agreed to repair all the above free of charge and we're going to take a chance with it.

Who knows, may be a bum deal but from what I'm hearing **** goes wrong with these anyway, may as well have one where a few things have been ticked off and fixed for free than one that'll surprise us. It's a decent price and that leaves a €2k reserve left for anything else that crops up.

magentis

sdanseo wrote: »

That's on old tax. Regime changed July 2008.

As regards my own - AA had flagged the TC, some damp on the steering assembly, as well as the fact that tax went from annual to quarterly and then to none at all since this time last year. A few panels had also been painted but in the engineer's opinion never crashed or anything like that - in his words, apart from the two jobs needing doing, mechanically sound. We've been reassured by the dealer and he's agreed to repair all the above free of charge and we're going to take a chance with it.

Who knows, may be a bum deal but from what I'm hearing **** goes wrong with these anyway, may as well have one where a few things have been ticked off and fixed for free than one that'll surprise us. It's a decent price and that leaves a €2k reserve left for anything else that crops up.

Nope its €750 a year to tax.Friend has one.Jan 08 reg.

sdanseo

magentis wrote: »

Nope its €750 a year to tax.Friend has one.Jan 08 reg.

I eat my words, you're right:

motortax.ie wrote:

The basis of assessment (BOA) is the vehicle detail which facilitates the calculation of the appropriate motor tax fee, e.g. engine capacity or CO2 emissions for private cars, weight for goods vehicles. The BOA for the vehicle details entered is CO2 EMISSIONS
The rates of taxation are as follows:
Tax Band Annual Half Year Quarter Year Arrears (Per Month)
171 - 190 750 416 211 75.00

Didn't know this bit:

Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Motor Tax System

The licencing for motor tax of new cars registered from 1st July 2008 is determined on the basis of the CO2 emissions level of the car, based on seven CO2 bands. The rates range from 100 euro a year for the greenest cars to 2,000 euro for cars with the highest emissions rating.
New cars registered between 1 January 2008 and 30 June 2008 initially had their motor tax charged on the basis of engine size. If it was beneficial for these cars to switch to the CO2 based motor tax system, this was effected on the first renewal of motor tax after 1 July 2008. New cars which were registered in the first six months of 2008 whose tax would be more under the CO2 based system will continue to pay motor tax on the basis of engine size.

fran oconnor

Really nice car that