Handy tools for sheep/Toolbox essentials for every sheep farmer

Green farmer

I bought a 5* ram lamb last summer for the stap. He saw the factory last month. Personally I'd only buy from a breeder who I trusted from now on, such as rangler amongst others. What I mean is a breeder who will genuinely go through the lambs, select the ones fit for purpose and factory the rest, instead of flogging every single ram lamb born as breeding stock .The star rating is noble in theory, but unfortunately is still in its infancy and only as good as the information that the breeder inputs in to it. My gut feeling is the only star rating I'd trust from now on

ganmo

davidk1394 wrote: »

How does that work ? Sounds like a good idea

we'll order 100 e tags get all the replacements into one pen and between me and dad start catchin the biggest/best 10 in no particular order then jus work our way askin each other is that better. we usually have 60 or so replacements so the spare tags will be put into suffx ewe lambs for sale the next year.

now i havent properly looked at the numbers but those that seem to stay longest in the flock seem to be in the 20-40 range

fanadman1

AntrimGlens wrote: »

I have a notebook and pencil which stays in the toolbox which is permanently strapped to the quad. Upload any data to the computer at night and only take the reader with me when working with the whole flock such as dosing, clipping, weighing, weaning etc as it saves quite a bit of writing at those times. Toolbox contains fencing pliers, hammer, rope, baler twine, staples, knife, pen strep, alamycin, Terramycin spray, markers. And a pile of other stuff. Just means you can never ignore the problem by saying I don't have "it" with me today if it's always in the box.

that box sounds like my van ha carry nearly all that stuff bar the notebook i really need to start takeing better notes tbh.

razor8

rangler1 wrote: »

OH is really into computers so we have a programme from TGM software and everything is compatible with that, scales, phone, reader, we can get information out on the farm on the phone or the reader, for instance when we're culling and when running the reader along the race it'll beep over any ewes that were flagged at lambing for culling.
Likewise we weigh at weaning and that highlights the ewes that are not doing the job.
It's hard to see the advantage in that recording with lambs, there's not a huge variation in weaning weights unless the ewe is very poor and you won't need a scales to spot her...same with the lambplus stars, huge difference in cattle between a one star and five star bull, but sheep Ireland are only claiming maybe 2kgs at weaning....is it really worth the bother.
Lifting management is much more rewarding

Hi rangler, how does the phone info work, is it a app or did you have to purchase something extra? I have only reader handheld at the moment

Not sure I agree on post above, if you have got to the stage that you have productive ewes you like you might not see major difference in weaning weights but for someone building up a flock Having never recored before I think you will see major differences.

skoger

Green farmer wrote: »

No one can accuse you of going in half prepared Antrim :pac:

I also like the whiteboard in lambing shed idea ormond.

We have a whiteboard too but this year we used a clipboard instead. You can bring the clipboard to the ewe and write down there and then. When you're walking back to the whiteboard on the wall you start doubting yourself and wonder was it ewe 843 or 834?

rangler1

razor8 wrote: »

Hi rangler, how does the phone info work, is it a app or did you have to purchase something extra? I have only reader handheld at the moment

Not sure I agree on post above, if you have got to the stage that you have productive ewes you like you might not see major difference in weaning weights but for someone building up a flock Having never recored before I think you will see major differences.

It definitely highlights the poor ewes
OH tells me that TGM Software lets you download the phone app and use it for 14 days free if you wanted something to try out......probably in the hope of reeling you in

MayoAreMagic

Not to be too cynical rangler, but couldn't you have the same thing, minus the price of the software and the reader, by just using a well placed spot of marking spray?

ganmo

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Not to be too cynical rangler, but couldn't you have the same thing, minus the price of the software and the reader, by just using a well placed spot of marking spray?

and a notebook to write down what that mark means

rangler1

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Not to be too cynical rangler, but couldn't you have the same thing, minus the price of the software and the reader, by just using a well placed spot of marking spray?

The red marker won't highlight the mothers of the lambs that gained less than 200gms/day up to weaning, that's next thing we cull for after the obvious thing you cull for (prolapse, blind spins, etc )
I often say at the time of culling that I could pick out 25 smashing looking ewes for breeding (but they'd all have a history) and the guy that'd buy them would learn more about sheep from them than any teagasc course would teach him

MayoAreMagic

ganmo wrote: »

and a notebook to write down what that mark means

From the post I got the impression it was used for marking culls. But even if you did need a notebook, it would cost you a euro or two, and you still have to input into the software what this list of tag numbers means compared to what another list of numbers means - i.e. same as the notebook.

Im not trying to knock it, Im actually all for utilising modern technologies, it is just that, from what Im reading here, it isn't really justifying it's cost in this instance.

MayoAreMagic

rangler1 wrote: »

The red marker won't highlight the mothers of the lambs that gained less than 200gms/day up to weaning, that's next thing we cull for after the obvious thing you cull for (prolapse, blind spins, etc )

Why wont it? Surely at the point you identify her, you can mark her the same as putting her into the reader? I don't see the distinction there.

rangler1 wrote: »

I often say at the time of culling that I could pick out 25 smashing looking ewes for breeding (but they'd all have a history) and the guy that'd buy them would learn more about sheep from them than any teagasc course would teach him

So mark them down as educational ewes and add 20 onto the price

The real positive that I can see in the reader system is that the data is saved for the future, but as regards culling, why would you want data on ewes you have culled?

Username John

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

From the post I got the impression it was used for marking culls. But even if you did need a notebook, it would cost you a euro or two, and you still have to input into the software what this list of tag numbers means compared to what another list of numbers means - i.e. same as the notebook.

Im not trying to knock it, Im actually all for utilising modern technologies, it is just that, from what Im reading here, it isn't really justifying it's cost in this instance.

At a guess, I would saw the software gives two things
- Saving of the data
- Analysing the data

A notebook is fine for me, one notebook every year does me. But I'd say if you had a few hundred ewes, and to work out what lambs performed the best, from what ewes would get messy very quickly .

Also, a marker prob would do a lot for culling - but that's as long as your breeding policy is simple as well. A mark will tell you who you what ewes to get rid of, but it wont give you any more info when you are chosing ewe lambs to breed from next year.

I think you're right though Mayo, you'd have to work out if the software was useful to you, fitted your system, etc. No point in paying for something, if you feel you wouldnt get the value / use from it.

Green farmer

I'm still at the trying to fence my fields right stage, so anything computerised is far far away in the future for me, but I'd imagine these computer things would come in handy, when you get up to 300 + ewes , and they all look the same, and your under pressure to dose them all etc. Nice to have a computer taking pressure off you and beeping when you scan a problem ewe. Like everything really, it's only as good as the info put into system.

Connemara Farmer

Phone to record tag numbers of ewes and lambs, plus weights @ birth @ 40 days @ 120 days using the memo function. Then onto the computer into an Excel spreadsheet, which is handy as I can rank various attributes in the order I want them. I find paper/notebooks gets destroyed in wet pockets and there'll always be a wet day!

Green farmer

I see we're thinking along same lines, John

Connemara Farmer

Green farmer wrote: »

I see we're thinking along same lines, John

I'll also fire in notes like lameness type and frequency, dagging, flystrike, lambing difficulty, if I see a tag is missing, various stuff like that.

Username John

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Phone to record tag numbers of ewes and lambs, plus weights @ birth @ 40 days @ 120 days using the memo function. Then onto the computer into an Excel spreadsheet, which is handy as I can rank various attributes in the order I want them. I find paper/notebooks gets destroyed in wet pockets and there'll always be a wet day!

I do something similar. Not sure I'll do it to the same extent this year. I might regularly weigh a few lambs, just to track overall progress.

I found it was the data analysis + overall view that I was missing...
In excel - you can see the best performers, so you have that to guide you, but as Mayo pointed out, you could prob see that in front of you in the pen anyways...

What would be very good is best performer this year + how did that ewes lambs do previously + ewe history...

But as Green said - I have a good few things to sort out, before I get to that level

Username John

I suppose ultimately, all this data should help you using something like below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOGSiJb-7hc

Where everything has an EID, and you tell the PC to sort based on what criteria you want... Then it becomes very useful...

But - that's a step beyond, beyond the step, beyond the step that I have yet to take

Connemara Farmer

Username John wrote: »

you could prob see that in front of you in the pen anyways...

The thing you won't see in the pen in September or whenever is when was the lamb born? The two lambs you're looking at similar size, was one born on the first day or lambing and the other born on the last maybe 6 weeks later? One will have had stronger growth than another. It'll also help should you wish to pick lambs born inside the first 17 days for compacting lambing time.

You can get a crude (I'm sure there's a technically correct way of doing it) day weight gain by subtracting birth weight from current weight and divide by days alive - if you want to.

When you go to look at the ewes for culling, will you remember 100% which had the poor lamb? Was it yer one in the corner or the one in front of you? Shearing removes all marks (ear notches & tags excepted) and it's a busy time to be reapplying extra paint.

I'm into my third year at this and I believe the flock is improving, not only down to this but it's a factor.

Green farmer

Remind me of a story lads. I was building a house once. The joiner turned up to make a front door. An "old boy" . He arrived with a few light timber lat's under his arm. I showed him the front door and asked him to measure it for me. I noticed he hadn't brought any measuring tape with him. I was throwing my eyes up to heaven. Next he started putting the timber lat's up to the door frame. I thought he had lost the plot. He pulled out a little knife out of his pocket and notched out the width on one stick and the length on another. I asked him if he wanted a pencil or tape or paper. He said no, " my timber lat won't lie and it won't get misplaced like a piece of paper". A month later the door arrived, and fitted in perfect.
Same guy is retired now, but they were known to be the best specialist joinery shop in this side of the country.

Username John

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

The thing you won't see in the pen in September or whenever is when was the lamb born? The two lambs you're looking at similar size, was one born on the first day or lambing and the other born on the last maybe 6 weeks later? One will have had stronger growth than another. It'll also help should you wish to pick lambs born inside the first 17 days for compacting lambing time.

You can get a crude (I'm sure there's a technically correct way of doing it) day weight gain by subtracting birth weight from current weight and divide by days alive - if you want to.

When you go to look at the ewes for culling, will you remember 100% which had the poor lamb? Was it yer one in the corner or the one in front of you? Shearing removes all marks (ear notches & tags excepted) and it's a busy time to be reapplying extra paint.

I'm into my third year at this and I believe the flock is improving, not only down to this but it's a factor.

I agree with you on all of this Con.

But for me
- This year, all ewes lambed in 18 days (sounds better than it is, I don't have too many ewes)
- Any ewes for culling get a blue mark (and it gets put back on em after shearing) Mark on middle of back = 100% gone, on their end is a 'maybe' But anything else happens that ewe, she gets another mark on the middle.

But - I think recording is the way to go... Just not sure I am using the data correctly / properly / as good as I could be, I guess was my point.

Edit : Sorry for dragging the thread so far off topic OP

Green farmer

I like the ear notcher idea lads, that David mentioned. 3 notches and their out. Simple technology and a good starting point, to keep me going until the computers get here.

Nekarsulm

Username John wrote: »

I agree with you on all of this Con.


- Any ewes for culling get a blue mark (and it gets put back on em after shearing) Mark on middle of back = 100% gone,
Edit : Sorry for dragging the thread so far off topic OP

Reminds me of the year Ballyhaise Ag. College sheared all the ewes after scanning (I know) and didn't replace the marks as each one was done......:rolleyes:

Username John

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Reminds me of the year Ballyhaise Ag. College sheared all the ewes after scanning (I know) and didn't replace the marks as each one was done......:rolleyes:

Whilst losing the scanning details would be the worst (as I dunno if anyone keeps an individual record of that)

I wont laugh, as I haven't always been as diligent as I should have been

MayoAreMagic

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

The thing you won't see in the pen in September or whenever is when was the lamb born? The two lambs you're looking at similar size, was one born on the first day or lambing and the other born on the last maybe 6 weeks later? One will have had stronger growth than another. It'll also help should you wish to pick lambs born inside the first 17 days for compacting lambing time.

You can get a crude (I'm sure there's a technically correct way of doing it) day weight gain by subtracting birth weight from current weight and divide by days alive - if you want to.

When you go to look at the ewes for culling, will you remember 100% which had the poor lamb? Was it yer one in the corner or the one in front of you? Shearing removes all marks (ear notches & tags excepted) and it's a busy time to be reapplying extra paint.

I'm into my third year at this and I believe the flock is improving, not only down to this but it's a factor.

But surely all that info is what you have entered yourself? I mean the software is, at the lowest level, just a database you enter tag numbers into via an electronic reader, it isn't doing anything special with the data. You could do the exact same thing with a notepad and Microsoft excel on a pc. The machine isn't reading the weight or the growth rate off the tag, you are writing it in. The only thing I see different is the reader recording the numbers or the notepad, and Im pretty sure a rainy day doesn't go well with electronic equipment either!

I take your point about the paint and shearing, but a similar point could be made about the reader and getting to each tag. What if the ewe was tagged in the left ear by mistake? Or there was a bit of dirt on the tag? Or the reader was malfunctioning after a bit of dose splashed on it? You could be halfway through before you realise you aren't getting many beeps. As I said earlier, Im all for using technology, but in the above instance, Id say the bit of spray in the middle of the back is actually the more reliable system.

Green farmer

Username John wrote: »

Edit : Sorry for dragging the thread so far off topic OP[/QUOTE




No bother, I'm happy for the thread go in whatever direction lads want to take it and have an interest in contributing. It's all about the sheep after all.

Bleating Lamb

Jaysus lads tis not all about them fancy computer yokes!.....one of most important thing needed is a good hoof clipper.

rangler1

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But surely all that info is what you have entered yourself? I mean the software is, at the lowest level, just a database you enter tag numbers into via an electronic reader, it isn't doing anything special with the data. You could do the exact same thing with a notepad and Microsoft excel on a pc. The machine isn't reading the weight or the growth rate off the tag, you are writing it in. The only thing I see different is the reader recording the numbers or the notepad, and Im pretty sure a rainy day doesn't go well with electronic equipment either!

I take your point about the paint and shearing, but a similar point could be made about the reader and getting to each tag. What if the ewe was tagged in the left ear by mistake? Or there was a bit of dirt on the tag? Or the reader was malfunctioning after a bit of dose splashed on it? You could be halfway through before you realise you aren't getting many beeps. As I said earlier, Im all for using technology, but in the above instance, Id say the bit of spray in the middle of the back is actually the more reliable system.

The reader isn't that particular and you'll be checking that it's reading right,
It'll query nos that are a bit iffy, also with the no. of ewes here , it's a bit of a pain to read manually.
During an inspection it's very easy find the numbers the inspector has in his note book....he read 50 of our flock last time and we had to find purchase, dose, and medicine records for all of those, it just makes life easier
When we're weighing we get DLWG since the last weighing and since birth if we want it, also the outdoor equipment is water proof.
Weighing takes about half the time and they all get weighed, the lamb is weighed and recorded as quick as you put in the tag no.....no waiting
Just edited to say that for what it is though, it's too bloody dear, no way does sheep justify it

MayoAreMagic

rangler1 wrote: »

The reader isn't that particular and you'll be checking that it's reading right,
It'll query nos that are a bit iffy, also with the no. of ewes here , it's a bit of a pain to read manually.

That is fair enough. But Im sure it is a bit of a pain to be querying nos that are a bit iffy too? Im just cautious of taking it as an all singing all dancing answer for everything. From what I can see, it has downsides as well as upsides, and for the money you need to spend on it, you aren't really getting much real added value. I mean the only issue I have heard so far is that with a notepad (I don't think you even need one but anyway) is it can get wet - well go and put up a shelf for it away from the elements for a fraction of the cost of all this software and hardware would be my advice.

rangler1 wrote: »

During an inspection it's very easy find the numbers the inspector has in his note book....he read 50 of our flock last time and we had to find purchase, dose, and medicine records for all of those, it just makes life easier
When we're weighing we get DLWG since the last weighing and since birth if we want it, also the outdoor equipment is water proof.
Weighing takes about half the time and they all get weighed, the lamb is weighed and recorded as quick as you put in the tag no.....no waiting

Is his notebook automated or just on paper?

How does the weighing work? Does it take the readings from the scales automatically? That would be handy in fairness.

rangler1

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

That is fair enough. But Im sure it is a bit of a pain to be querying nos that are a bit iffy too? Im just cautious of taking it as an all singing all dancing answer for everything. From what I can see, it has downsides as well as upsides, and for the money you need to spend on it, you aren't really getting much real added value. I mean the only issue I have heard so far is that with a notepad (I don't think you even need one but anyway) is it can get wet - well go and put up a shelf for it away from the elements for a fraction of the cost of all this software and hardware would be my advice.




Is his notebook automated or just on paper?

How does the weighing work? Does it take the readings from the scales automatically? That would be handy in fairness.

Don't think you read my last line/edit, any way if the lambs had electronic tags, it'd do it all.
OH did some work for the supplier in the development of the software, and it didn't cost us as much.....but for that we wouldn't have it.
It's unreal dear, maybe they all are