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Ladbrokes goes into Examinership

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭ gymman39


    Shops are finished..all going online now


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭ okidoki987


    "Business as usual" according to the website.


  • Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭ archieknox


    Online has done a huge amount of damage to the stores. Interesting how Paddy Power seems to be going from strength to strength though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 porsche959


    As OP says, not good from competition point of view in Irish retail. I would expect Paddy Power will gobble up quite a few of these stores.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,023 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr


    archieknox wrote: »
    Online has done a huge amount of damage to the stores. Interesting how Paddy Power seems to be going from strength to strength though.

    PP offer a decent service and their shops are clean, comfy and nice to be in, LB seem to have the bare minimum service and staff can be a little unfriendly and uncaring.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭ Rackstar


    porsche959 wrote: »
    As OP says, not good from competition point of view in Irish retail. I would expect Paddy Power will gobble up quite a few of these stores.

    The competition is a different bookie offering different prices. Even if PP took all the shops it still wouldn't be good for competition.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭ JONJO THE MISER


    The staff for the most part are not the friendliest and the shops are a disgrace, look like something you would see in the 80's.
    And dont get me started on that ladbrokes life advert:mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭ racso1975


    I think it is just a gimmick to allow them lay off staff/cut wages and negotiate lower rents on the shops.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭ bradlente


    I doubt Powers would replace many of the shops,they're pretty much in every town and city already.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 porsche959


    Rackstar wrote: »
    The competition is a different bookie offering different prices. Even if PP took all the shops it still wouldn't be good for competition.

    I know. That's exactly my point.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 porsche959


    gymman39 wrote: »
    Shops are finished..all going online now

    Don't agree, there is a role for retail for foreseeable future. Numbers will likely continue to decline though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭ Howjoe1


    porsche959 wrote: »
    Don't agree, there is a role for retail for foreseeable future. Numbers will likely continue to decline though.

    Interestingly Boylesports used a policy of bigger shops that go with big rents instead of the more cost efficient online business. They must be coming under pressure surely?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Jamal Deep Locksmith


    Retail will only become a small auxiliary operation compared to web (esp. mobile only devices).

    Ladbrokes have been in fiscal difficulties for ages, their previous website was an exceedingly poor effort,
    - best described as a 'pale grey-wash of illegible small text' that probably lost them a considerable userbase.

    Their latest(beta) is better, but the failure to have time/clock on live events is a critical mistake along with (again) grey text.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭ Howjoe1


    most small chains gone or shrinking.

    Celtic, Cashmans gone.

    Bruce far less shops.

    Foxs gone or going?

    Hackett shops few and far between.

    Betpack umbrella of shops ..basic or worse.

    Stanjames came and went with a whimper

    others?

    Powers will have a monopoly soon.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Jamal Deep Locksmith


    Fair whack of shops, but only small part of the holding group overall. Guess could be flipped over as discounted property investment.
    Future of industry retail could be to diversity into mini-bingo halls, massage saloons, barbers, cocktail bars, pool halls...
    Ladbrokes said job losses were expected at all levels of its operation in the Republic of Ireland, where it has 840 employees and 196 betting shops.

    If you have shares in the group, either hope for recovery or cut the loss - at their lowest value in 15yrs @#106.10 [LAD]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 porsche959


    Howjoe1 wrote: »
    Interestingly Boylesports used a policy of bigger shops that go with big rents instead of the more cost efficient online business. They must be coming under pressure surely?

    Not too familiar with Boylesports, but in general for large bookmakers these days, retail stream is essentially a loss leader or minimally profitable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 porsche959


    If you have shares in the group, either hope for recovery or cut the loss - at their lowest value in 15yrs @#106.10 [LAD]

    They seem to have had some problems in recent years but are still the biggest in UK. Personally I'd probably hold, though easy to say as I don't hold shares.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭ okidoki987


    Paddy Power will gobble up quite a few of these stores.

    Not if there are loss making they won't and as bradlente said they are already in all the places that Ladbrokes are in anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭ okidoki987


    Interestingly Boylesports used a policy of bigger shops that go with big rents instead of the more cost efficient online business. They must be coming under pressure surely?

    Boyle have to have a retail business, they wouldn't survive with just an online business due to the competition.
    The shops are making money from what I hear but more due to the punters they have, they don't pay attention to the odds on offer or check around.
    If you have shares in the group, either hope for recovery or cut the loss

    They may well be getting rid of a loss making part of their business, shares should recover but you then relying on their online business :eek: along with their money making UK shops.
    Strange that PP & Boyles can both make money from their shops in Ireland
    and Ladbrokes can't?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭ SteM


    Was taking to a mate there that has a pretty high up job and he reckons that over the past few years they have been paying approx €1.2m pa on rent on shops that are no longer open. Leases all signed before the crash.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 porsche959


    SteM wrote: »
    Was taking to a mate there that has a pretty high up job and he reckons that over the past few years they have been paying approx €1.2m pa on rent on shops that are no longer open. Leases all signed before the crash.

    That makes sense.

    From chatting to an English acquaintance on social media that has a not very high up job there, she commented: "The Ireland part of the business has been a mess for years."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭ Jamal Deep Locksmith


    Guess it could make sense to pick up LAD shares now that the price is about rock bottom, and if they rid themselves of the previous monotone website, and tweak a bit more life into the newer beta version. Wouldn't be tempted though.

    Imagine the shop's 'rental:income' ratio would be less favourable in Ireland anyway due to lower foot-falls.

    Read somewhere that Bet365 are the biggest (for on-line) in the uk - which is rather interesting as it uses a pure 'Flash™' based interface for desktop users. The main big 3 (across-the-line) and the others have estimated 9,200 c. shops, down from about 15,000 shops previous to web 2.0.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭ hefferboi


    Maybe if they offered better odds than PP they could compete. They're soccer odds are more often than not worse than any other bookies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭ SteM


    Heard an interesting story the other day - at least I found it interesting.

    So, Ladbrookes soccer odds (probably all odds) are set from the UK. In the UK they weren't doing a first goalscorer double odds promotion on the United V City game a few weeks ago but Ladbrookes here ran the promotion to compete with Powers.

    The odds should have been adjusted to take into account the promotion but weren't. Agureo scores a nothing goal in the 88th minute. Ladbrookes Ireland loose the money they made on Grand National day(**)

    If they're going to compete with Powers going forward it looks like they will have to become a self contained entity in the Irish market but I would imagine that will cost money to set up and maintain.

    (**)This is the amount I've been told, I don't know enough about the betting industry or what they make to know where the amount is true. I know the bloke that told me very well though and he's been complaining about Ladbrookes slitting their own throat for the last 2 years or so now.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭ JONJO THE MISER


    Used to take quiet a lot of money off them on political betting, the odds were unreal value on some of the markets, they dont offer as many now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭ okidoki987


    Read somewhere that Bet365 are the biggest (for on-line) in the uk

    "Bet365 are the Biggest bookmaker in the world according to their ad".


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭ okidoki987


    Maybe if they offered better odds than PP they could compete. They're soccer odds are more often than not worse than any other bookies.

    That is true but their shop prices are sometimes "very favourable"


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭ okidoki987


    So, Ladbrookes soccer odds (probably all odds) are set from the UK. In the UK they weren't doing a first goalscorer double odds promotion on the United V City game a few weeks ago but Ladbrookes here ran the promotion to compete with Powers.

    The odds should have been adjusted to take into account the promotion but weren't. Agureo scores a nothing goal in the 88th minute. Ladbrookes Ireland loose the money they made on Grand National day(**)

    If they're going to compete with Powers going forward it looks like they will have to become a self contained entity in the Irish market but I would imagine that will cost money to set up and maintain.

    (**)This is the amount I've been told, I don't know enough about the betting industry or what they make to know where the amount is true. I know the bloke that told me very well though and he's been complaining about Ladbrookes slitting their own throat for the last 2 years or so now.

    Betfred (Double, treble odds) & Boyles (Double in 1st 20 mins) were 9/2.
    PP (Double if he scores 1st & 2nd goal) were 5/1.
    Lads in UK & Online were jt best at 11/2 Aguero.
    Lads in Ireland went 7/1 Aguero & also 7/1 Rooney.
    They also have Double the odds special if 1st goalscorer scores in the 2nd half.
    7/1 would have been expensive, 14/1 would have been nightmare stuff for them but not 100% convinced it would have cost them everything they made on the GN especially as the max stake on the double the odds special was €25.
    The still do it but not really advertised that well.
    One of the main problems they have had is the management and traders were transferred from Naas Rd to NI and then to HQ in UK.
    Ireland is a totally different market to UK and I'd say impossible to run from over there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭ CardinalJ


    Ladbrokes have problems all over the place. Their website is a total sh1tshow. Betting by market instead of game for example and generally impossible to navigate. Investors have been at them to have a decent website offering for years and years but no result.

    Their prices for a lot of the sports I bet on are set very well so I don't use them as I can get better with others. Then when I go to the shop (I don't bet online with anyone anymore), the odds in the shop are not the same as their site/oddschecker, so I just don't bother going in anymore.

    Also as mentioned their shops are pretty horrible, staff relatively unhelpful, more often than not have to ring an office when cashing out if I've placed teh bet in another branch. I don't spend time in bookies, but in Stillorgan in Dublin for example there's a Boyles PP and Lads. Lads is horrible and the PP And Boyles are big with plenty of screens.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭ SteM


    okidoki987 wrote: »
    Betfred (Double, treble odds) & Boyles (Double in 1st 20 mins) were 9/2.
    PP (Double if he scores 1st & 2nd goal) were 5/1.
    Lads in UK & Online were jt best at 11/2 Aguero.
    Lads in Ireland went 7/1 Aguero & also 7/1 Rooney.
    They also have Double the odds special if 1st goalscorer scores in the 2nd half.
    7/1 would have been expensive, 14/1 would have been nightmare stuff for them but not 100% convinced it would have cost them everything they made on the GN especially as the max stake on the double the odds special was €25.
    The still do it but not really advertised that well.
    One of the main problems they have had is the management and traders were transferred from Naas Rd to NI and then to HQ in UK.
    Ireland is a totally different market to UK and I'd say impossible to run from over there.

    I've been in shops where lads just go around from person to person asking them to put on €25 bets to get around that rule. Seen it plenty of times, sure what can the staff do? There be war if the staff refused the bets.


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