Ladbrokes goes into Examinership

okidoki987

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/0421/695712-ladbrokes-examinership/

Not good news for competition.

gymman39

Shops are finished..all going online now

okidoki987

"Business as usual" according to the website.

archieknox

Online has done a huge amount of damage to the stores. Interesting how Paddy Power seems to be going from strength to strength though.

porsche959

As OP says, not good from competition point of view in Irish retail. I would expect Paddy Power will gobble up quite a few of these stores.

Timberrrrrrrr

archieknox wrote: »

Online has done a huge amount of damage to the stores. Interesting how Paddy Power seems to be going from strength to strength though.

PP offer a decent service and their shops are clean, comfy and nice to be in, LB seem to have the bare minimum service and staff can be a little unfriendly and uncaring.

Rackstar

porsche959 wrote: »

As OP says, not good from competition point of view in Irish retail. I would expect Paddy Power will gobble up quite a few of these stores.

The competition is a different bookie offering different prices. Even if PP took all the shops it still wouldn't be good for competition.

JONJO THE MISER

The staff for the most part are not the friendliest and the shops are a disgrace, look like something you would see in the 80's.
And dont get me started on that ladbrokes life advert:mad:

racso1975

I think it is just a gimmick to allow them lay off staff/cut wages and negotiate lower rents on the shops.

bradlente

I doubt Powers would replace many of the shops,they're pretty much in every town and city already.

porsche959

Rackstar wrote: »

The competition is a different bookie offering different prices. Even if PP took all the shops it still wouldn't be good for competition.

I know. That's exactly my point.

porsche959

gymman39 wrote: »

Shops are finished..all going online now

Don't agree, there is a role for retail for foreseeable future. Numbers will likely continue to decline though.

Howjoe1

porsche959 wrote: »

Don't agree, there is a role for retail for foreseeable future. Numbers will likely continue to decline though.

Interestingly Boylesports used a policy of bigger shops that go with big rents instead of the more cost efficient online business. They must be coming under pressure surely?

4068ac1elhodqr

Retail will only become a small auxiliary operation compared to web (esp. mobile only devices).

Ladbrokes have been in fiscal difficulties for ages, their previous website was an exceedingly poor effort,
- best described as a 'pale grey-wash of illegible small text' that probably lost them a considerable userbase.

Their latest(beta) is better, but the failure to have time/clock on live events is a critical mistake along with (again) grey text.

Howjoe1

most small chains gone or shrinking.

Celtic, Cashmans gone.

Bruce far less shops.

Foxs gone or going?

Hackett shops few and far between.

Betpack umbrella of shops ..basic or worse.

Stanjames came and went with a whimper

others?

Powers will have a monopoly soon.

4068ac1elhodqr

Fair whack of shops, but only small part of the holding group overall. Guess could be flipped over as discounted property investment.
Future of industry retail could be to diversity into mini-bingo halls, massage saloons, barbers, cocktail bars, pool halls...

Ladbrokes said job losses were expected at all levels of its operation in the Republic of Ireland, where it has 840 employees and 196 betting shops.

If you have shares in the group, either hope for recovery or cut the loss - at their lowest value in 15yrs @#106.10 [LAD]

porsche959

Howjoe1 wrote: »

Interestingly Boylesports used a policy of bigger shops that go with big rents instead of the more cost efficient online business. They must be coming under pressure surely?

Not too familiar with Boylesports, but in general for large bookmakers these days, retail stream is essentially a loss leader or minimally profitable.

porsche959

Jamal Deep Locksmith wrote: »

If you have shares in the group, either hope for recovery or cut the loss - at their lowest value in 15yrs @#106.10 [LAD]

They seem to have had some problems in recent years but are still the biggest in UK. Personally I'd probably hold, though easy to say as I don't hold shares.

okidoki987

Paddy Power will gobble up quite a few of these stores.

Not if there are loss making they won't and as bradlente said they are already in all the places that Ladbrokes are in anyway.

okidoki987

Interestingly Boylesports used a policy of bigger shops that go with big rents instead of the more cost efficient online business. They must be coming under pressure surely?

Boyle have to have a retail business, they wouldn't survive with just an online business due to the competition.
The shops are making money from what I hear but more due to the punters they have, they don't pay attention to the odds on offer or check around.

If you have shares in the group, either hope for recovery or cut the loss

They may well be getting rid of a loss making part of their business, shares should recover but you then relying on their online business :eek: along with their money making UK shops.
Strange that PP & Boyles can both make money from their shops in Ireland
and Ladbrokes can't?

SteM

Was taking to a mate there that has a pretty high up job and he reckons that over the past few years they have been paying approx €1.2m pa on rent on shops that are no longer open. Leases all signed before the crash.

porsche959

SteM wrote: »

Was taking to a mate there that has a pretty high up job and he reckons that over the past few years they have been paying approx €1.2m pa on rent on shops that are no longer open. Leases all signed before the crash.

That makes sense.

From chatting to an English acquaintance on social media that has a not very high up job there, she commented: "The Ireland part of the business has been a mess for years."

4068ac1elhodqr

Guess it could make sense to pick up LAD shares now that the price is about rock bottom, and if they rid themselves of the previous monotone website, and tweak a bit more life into the newer beta version. Wouldn't be tempted though.

Imagine the shop's 'rental:income' ratio would be less favourable in Ireland anyway due to lower foot-falls.

Read somewhere that Bet365 are the biggest (for on-line) in the uk - which is rather interesting as it uses a pure 'Flash™' based interface for desktop users. The main big 3 (across-the-line) and the others have estimated 9,200 c. shops, down from about 15,000 shops previous to web 2.0.

hefferboi

Maybe if they offered better odds than PP they could compete. They're soccer odds are more often than not worse than any other bookies.

SteM

Heard an interesting story the other day - at least I found it interesting.

So, Ladbrookes soccer odds (probably all odds) are set from the UK. In the UK they weren't doing a first goalscorer double odds promotion on the United V City game a few weeks ago but Ladbrookes here ran the promotion to compete with Powers.

The odds should have been adjusted to take into account the promotion but weren't. Agureo scores a nothing goal in the 88th minute. Ladbrookes Ireland loose the money they made on Grand National day(**)

If they're going to compete with Powers going forward it looks like they will have to become a self contained entity in the Irish market but I would imagine that will cost money to set up and maintain.

(**)This is the amount I've been told, I don't know enough about the betting industry or what they make to know where the amount is true. I know the bloke that told me very well though and he's been complaining about Ladbrookes slitting their own throat for the last 2 years or so now.

JONJO THE MISER

Used to take quiet a lot of money off them on political betting, the odds were unreal value on some of the markets, they dont offer as many now.

okidoki987

Read somewhere that Bet365 are the biggest (for on-line) in the uk

"Bet365 are the Biggest bookmaker in the world according to their ad".

okidoki987

Maybe if they offered better odds than PP they could compete. They're soccer odds are more often than not worse than any other bookies.

That is true but their shop prices are sometimes "very favourable"

okidoki987

So, Ladbrookes soccer odds (probably all odds) are set from the UK. In the UK they weren't doing a first goalscorer double odds promotion on the United V City game a few weeks ago but Ladbrookes here ran the promotion to compete with Powers.

The odds should have been adjusted to take into account the promotion but weren't. Agureo scores a nothing goal in the 88th minute. Ladbrookes Ireland loose the money they made on Grand National day(**)

If they're going to compete with Powers going forward it looks like they will have to become a self contained entity in the Irish market but I would imagine that will cost money to set up and maintain.

(**)This is the amount I've been told, I don't know enough about the betting industry or what they make to know where the amount is true. I know the bloke that told me very well though and he's been complaining about Ladbrookes slitting their own throat for the last 2 years or so now.

Betfred (Double, treble odds) & Boyles (Double in 1st 20 mins) were 9/2.
PP (Double if he scores 1st & 2nd goal) were 5/1.
Lads in UK & Online were jt best at 11/2 Aguero.
Lads in Ireland went 7/1 Aguero & also 7/1 Rooney.
They also have Double the odds special if 1st goalscorer scores in the 2nd half.
7/1 would have been expensive, 14/1 would have been nightmare stuff for them but not 100% convinced it would have cost them everything they made on the GN especially as the max stake on the double the odds special was €25.
The still do it but not really advertised that well.
One of the main problems they have had is the management and traders were transferred from Naas Rd to NI and then to HQ in UK.
Ireland is a totally different market to UK and I'd say impossible to run from over there.

CardinalJ

Ladbrokes have problems all over the place. Their website is a total sh1tshow. Betting by market instead of game for example and generally impossible to navigate. Investors have been at them to have a decent website offering for years and years but no result.

Their prices for a lot of the sports I bet on are set very well so I don't use them as I can get better with others. Then when I go to the shop (I don't bet online with anyone anymore), the odds in the shop are not the same as their site/oddschecker, so I just don't bother going in anymore.

Also as mentioned their shops are pretty horrible, staff relatively unhelpful, more often than not have to ring an office when cashing out if I've placed teh bet in another branch. I don't spend time in bookies, but in Stillorgan in Dublin for example there's a Boyles PP and Lads. Lads is horrible and the PP And Boyles are big with plenty of screens.

SteM

okidoki987 wrote: »

Betfred (Double, treble odds) & Boyles (Double in 1st 20 mins) were 9/2.
PP (Double if he scores 1st & 2nd goal) were 5/1.
Lads in UK & Online were jt best at 11/2 Aguero.
Lads in Ireland went 7/1 Aguero & also 7/1 Rooney.
They also have Double the odds special if 1st goalscorer scores in the 2nd half.
7/1 would have been expensive, 14/1 would have been nightmare stuff for them but not 100% convinced it would have cost them everything they made on the GN especially as the max stake on the double the odds special was €25.
The still do it but not really advertised that well.
One of the main problems they have had is the management and traders were transferred from Naas Rd to NI and then to HQ in UK.
Ireland is a totally different market to UK and I'd say impossible to run from over there.

I've been in shops where lads just go around from person to person asking them to put on €25 bets to get around that rule. Seen it plenty of times, sure what can the staff do? There be war if the staff refused the bets.

okidoki987

That doesn't just happen in Lads either.

The_Kew_Tour

In Cork anyway I always found the Ladbrokes staff odd and weird compared to Boyles and PP.

I don't know why , found that in Dublin too.

Backstreet Moyes

Was in Ladbrokes last Saturday and i couldn't believe how outdated it was compared to other bookies.

I don't bother with bookie shops any more but had no TV last Saturday so spent two hours in Lads after college to watch the racing.

I could never work in a bookies it is like a zoo. The screaming, shouting and the smell off people in their. Scumbags screaming and shouting throwing Euro's on everything from virtual to dogs and racing. The same people running up five seconds before something goes off and screaming their bet didn't get on in time.

I just don;t know how the staff put up with it i wouldn't be able to control myself with the abuse they put up with.

Boylesports again is another joke it's beside the local pub so i might pop in if out for a few drinks. The amount of times i have seen them enhance a horse on the screens and they are actually a bigger price than the price they are enhancing.

The_Kew_Tour

Nuts102 wrote: »

Was in Ladbrokes last Saturday and i couldn't believe how outdated it was compared to other bookies.

I don't bother with bookie shops any more but had no TV last Saturday so spent two hours in Lads after college to watch the racing.

I could never work in a bookies it is like a zoo. The screaming, shouting and the smell off people in their. Scumbags screaming and shouting throwing Euro's on everything from virtual to dogs and racing. The same people running up five seconds before something goes off and screaming their bet didn't get on in time.

I just don;t know how the staff put up with it i wouldn't be able to control myself with the abuse they put up with.

Boylesports again is another joke it's beside the local pub so i might pop in if out for a few drinks. The amount of times i have seen them enhance a horse on the screens and they are actually a bigger price than the price they are enhancing.

Its not a Ladbrokes just off O Connell street down a side street by any chance?

Not sure name of street but if they offered me 100euro a hour to work there I would say no.

The abuse I saw on staff one day in space of half hour was shocking.

Ladbrokes anywhere they just seem to be crap with worst type of punter.

Backstreet Moyes

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Its not a Ladbrokes just off O Connell street down a side street by any chance?

Not sure name of street but if they offered me 100euro a hour to work there I would say no.

The abuse I saw on staff one day in space of half hour was shocking.

Ladbrokes anywhere they just seem to be crap with worst type of punter.

No not from Cork.

I rarely deal with Ladbrokes but two incidents at Cheltenham totally put me off them.

Support a Cheltenham preview night for charity i got a voucher €5 off a €20 bet. So i stroll up do a trixie worth €20 and hand in €15 with the voucher. She starts banging on about how i need to make the bet €25 and give her €20. I tried my best to explain to her how she was wrong but she was talking loudly while others could hear.

I had €15 in my pocket so embarrassingly had to walk out without placing the bet at all.

I went up that evening and placed the bet anyway thrown the€25 on a 4/1 winner. I went up to collect €120 the Wednesday of Cheltenham around half 11 and they told me to call back later that day. €120 they couldn't pay out of the second day of Cheltenham.

SteM

Nuts102 wrote: »

No not from Cork.

I rarely deal with Ladbrokes but two incidents at Cheltenham totally put me off them.

Support a Cheltenham preview night for charity i got a voucher €5 off a €20 bet. So i stroll up do a trixie worth €20 and hand in €15 with the voucher. She starts banging on about how i need to make the bet €25 and give her €20. I tried my best to explain to her how she was wrong but she was talking loudly while others could hear.

I had €15 in my pocket so embarrassingly had to walk out without placing the bet at all.

I went up that evening and placed the bet anyway thrown the€25 on a 4/1 winner. I went up to collect €120 the Wednesday of Cheltenham around half 11 and they told me to call back later that day. €120 they couldn't pay out of the second day of Cheltenham.

Jeez, these are crazy stories. Just poor customer service and shop management, plain and simple.