Penalty points impact on insurance

tombrown

My wife & I both got separately hit for speeding recently and are due 3 pts each.

I am currently on 2 pts and she is on 4 (all from when speeding was 2 pts a go). At the time neither of them impacted insurance premiums (or so I was told)

So two quick questions :

1) Any idea what this situation will do to our respective insurance premiums? i.e. are we facing a hike in the order of 5-10% or more like 50-100% (we both have max NCB)

2) Should I declare points to insurance company as soon as they are applied or just when I next renew?

thanks

Paul.k.b.90

2 points generally dont make that much of a difference but with 5 and 7 points each I would imagine you will see some sort of hike in your premiums.

The points should be declared to your insurers right away AFAIK

coylemj

tombrown wrote: »

2) Should I declare points to insurance company as soon as they are applied or just when I next renew?

Download your policy document and see what it says. Anyone who tells you what you do or do not need to do without knowing who you are insured with is just guessing.

9935452

Full disclosure is the term the insurance companys use. If it was me i would tell them straight away be happy everything was right rather than risking having no cover

Uncle Ben

tombrown wrote: »

My wife & I both got separately hit for speeding recently and are due 3 pts each.

I am currently on 2 pts and she is on 4 (all from when speeding was 2 pts a go). At the time neither of them impacted insurance premiums (or so I was told)

So two quick questions :

1) Any idea what this situation will do to our respective insurance premiums? i.e. are we facing a hike in the order of 5-10% or more like 50-100% (we both have max NCB)

2) Should I declare points to insurance company as soon as they are applied or just when I next renew?

thanks

For a start I'd consider slowing down in speed limit zones.

Seth Brundle

In terms of renewing insurance, the combined points are counted if you are each named on the others policy for many if not all companies.
In this case, when you renew with herself on your policy then your policy has six points. Same will apply when your wife renews.

Your existing NCB etc is irrelevant.

AA tried to whack my policy up from about 400 to about 1500 when I disclosed ours last Sept. Many other companies were following the same practice (in the end it worked out as Aon quoted me lower than the original AA and I got 50% off a new blues shirt).

ardmacha

tombrown wrote: »

My wife & I both got separately hit for speeding recently and are due 3 pts each.

Such a well matched couple, many's the man got a bollocking off the missus when the insurance went up owing to his points. :rolleyes:

stefanovich

9935452 wrote: »

Full disclosure is the term the insurance companys use. If it was me i would tell them straight away be happy everything was right rather than risking having no cover

He said he was due points meaning, I would imagine, he is waiting for a letter. Perhaps it won't arrive? If it does though you better be ringing your insurance immediately.

tombrown

Had the letters with the number plate photo, the fine and the news we woudl get 3 pts. I believe the pts get allocated when we acknowledge & pay the fines

Thanks for all the responses, including the smart ones. My wife is the worse offender. Her original 4 pts came from getting snapped on the way to and AND on the way back from the local recycling center, by the same van within a 20 minute period

CarrickMcJoe

Maybe she doesn't like doing the recycling!

Craftylee

I believe 2 points has hardly any effect - reason for this is because "many" drivers tend to behave more when they know they have 2 points on there license. But from there I'd imagine it's a steep curve of pain to the wallet

gaiscioch

9935452 wrote: »

Full disclosure is the term the insurance companys use. If it was me i would tell them straight away be happy everything was right rather than risking having no cover

According to the usually reliable Citizens' Information website here:

"All penalty points added to your driving licence whether by way of payment of the fixed charge notice or by way of conviction in the courts are recorded on the National Driver File. This enables insurance companies to have access to penalty point information held on a driver record."

This is news to me. When did the state allow private corporations to access this information? If this is accurate, why would a driver need to inform them as they have the information in front of them? Indeed, would it be fraud of some sort for the insurance company to accept a premium from somebody who didn't declare the points, which the insurance company was at any rate aware of, if non-declaration meant the insurance company would void the policy? (they accepted money in the knowledge that they would be voiding the policy in the event of an accident)

I just got 3 penalty points - my first in five years - for speeding at 69km in a 60km zone. I resent the clear money-making exercise that is alternating the speed limit from 120km to 100km to 80km to 100km to 60km to 50km... in the space of just 7 or 8km with a speed camera of some sort thrown in somewhere (between Clonee and Blanchardstown being a perfect example of this).

endacl

Uncle Ben wrote: »

For a start I'd consider slowing down in speed limit zones.

Isn't everywhere a speed limit zone? What am I missing?

Pov06

endacl wrote: »

Isn't everywhere a speed limit zone? What am I missing?

slimjimmc

gaiscioch wrote: »

This is news to me. When did the state allow private corporations to access this information?

Road Traffic Act 2014 Sect 5.
Came into force on 1st Aug 2014.

9935452

gaiscioch wrote: »

According to the usually reliable Citizens' Information website here:

"All penalty points added to your driving licence whether by way of payment of the fixed charge notice or by way of conviction in the courts are recorded on the National Driver File. This enables insurance companies to have access to penalty point information held on a driver record."

This is news to me. When did the state allow private corporations to access this information? If this is accurate, why would a driver need to inform them as they have the information in front of them? Indeed, would it be fraud of some sort for the insurance company to accept a premium from somebody who didn't declare the points, which the insurance company was at any rate aware of, if non-declaration meant the insurance company would void the policy? (they accepted money in the knowledge that they would be voiding the policy in the event of an accident)

I just got 3 penalty points - my first in five years - for speeding at 69km in a 60km zone. I resent the clear money-making exercise that is alternating the speed limit from 120km to 100km to 80km to 100km to 60km to 50km... in the space of just 7 or 8km with a speed camera of some sort thrown in somewhere (between Clonee and Blanchardstown being a perfect example of this).

Wouldnt an insurance company need your driver number off your license to check for penalty points. Ive been with 6 different insurance companys in my time and only the first one looked for a copy of my driver license,

Pov06

9935452 wrote: »

Wouldnt an insurance company need your driver number off your license to check for penalty points. Ive been with 6 different insurance companys in my time and only the first one looked for a copy of my driver license,

Trust me - if they don't have a copy of your licence they will definitely ask you for a copy when you go to make a claim :rolleyes:

gaiscioch

9935452 wrote: »

Wouldnt an insurance company need your driver number off your license to check for penalty points. Ive been with 6 different insurance companys in my time and only the first one looked for a copy of my driver license,

I had to send (to Blue) a scan of my licence as part of the process.

Liam McPoyle

Some insurers allow you up to 4 points without applying a loading. Off the top of my head Aviva apply a loading for any and all penalty points, regardless of the offence.

One of the principles of insurance is utmost good faith. It basically means that the onus lies with the policy holder to declare any and all changes to their driving status. If in the event of a claim it is discovered you had penalty points at inception or renewal stage and didnt advise the company then you run the risk of the claim been declined.

Always tell your insurer in the event of an incident, be it penalty points, any accident involving a third party even if they 100% state that they dont want to claim or will allow you to pay for the damages, EVERYTHING.

gaiscioch

Business Cat wrote: »

One of the principles of insurance is utmost good faith. It basically means that the onus lies with the policy holder to declare any and all changes to their driving status. If in the event of a claim it is discovered you had penalty points at inception or renewal stage and didnt advise the company then you run the risk of the claim been declined.

Given that the insurance company now has access to the National Driver File, and thus knows how many penalty points a potential client has, is there any point in the insurance company even asking how many penalty points you have?

Indeed, if a potential client lies about their number of penalty points will the insurance company, which can now easily check the veracity of the client's claim before taking them on, be able to extricate itself from a case on grounds that the insured lied about penalty points?

To Elland Back

gaiscioch wrote: »

Given that the insurance company now has access to the National Driver File, and thus knows how many penalty points a potential client has, is there any point in the insurance company even asking how many penalty points you have?

Indeed, if a potential client lies about their number of penalty points will the insurance company, which can now easily check the veracity of the client's claim before taking them on, be able to extricate itself from a case on grounds that the insured lied about penalty points?

The insurer will not check every answer you have put on to the proposal form / statement of fact until you have a claim. If you've lied, you have misrepresented in order to obtain insurance and they can void any own damage claim and pursue you to repay any 3rd party claim. End of

Pov06

gaiscioch wrote: »

Given that the insurance company now has access to the National Driver File, and thus knows how many penalty points a potential client has, is there any point in the insurance company even asking how many penalty points you have?

No because they can easily get away with taking money from people who lie and not have to pay a cent in the event of a claim. Literally the definition of free money.

To Elland Back

Pov06 wrote: »

No because they can easily get away with taking money from people who lie and not have to pay a cent in the event of a claim. Literally the definition of free money.

If an insurer finds out that you have misrepresented and wish to void a policy so as not to pay a claim, they have to refund the premium in full. Nothing free about it

deandean

Well, RSA screwed me at the rate of 50 euro per penalty point.
2 points = 100 extra.
4 points = 200 extra.
AND the penalty points are not cancelled on RSA's 'system' until the end of year in which the points are removed from your license!
Any excuse to extract more from the motorist....grrr

gaiscioch

deandean wrote: »

Well, RSA screwed me at the rate of 50 euro per penalty point.
2 points = 100 extra.
4 points = 200 extra.
AND the penalty points are not cancelled on RSA's 'system' until the end of year in which the points are removed from your license!
Any excuse to extract more from the motorist....grrr

And if you get caught breaking the speed limit even twice in a three-year period, you have a whopping 6 points. I'd say since speeding offences were increased from 2 to 3 points there will be a significant increase in the number of people who receive 12 points/are put off the road for 6 months. I got 3 points recently - my first in 5 or so years - for doing 69km in a 60km zone.

It seems a waste to buy an expensive high performance car (which I definitely don't have) when the risks of being caught speeding are so high.

UhOh

I always thought 6 points or more and you need to declare to your insurance.

K.Flyer

If the insurance companies have access to the points data-base surely it would make more sense if the wrong information is given by the applicant for the insurer to decline cover straight away.
At least the applicant knows he has no cover and might be more up front in future.

9935452

gaiscioch wrote: »

Given that the insurance company now has access to the National Driver File, and thus knows how many penalty points a potential client has, is there any point in the insurance company even asking how many penalty points you have?

Indeed, if a potential client lies about their number of penalty points will the insurance company, which can now easily check the veracity of the client's claim before taking them on, be able to extricate itself from a case on grounds that the insured lied about penalty points?

A good few insurance companys have the system fairly automated with the renewals cutting down on administration/office work and thus administration fees.
I would assume that if they were checking to see whether people had penalty points the administration fees would go up and thus the price of insurance would go up.
The likes of 123 charge admin fees for any extra work they do for you like transferring insurance to another car or losing your disc.

So in a bid to keep the price down they dont check a lot of stuff until there is a claim

Greenmachine

UhOh wrote: »

I always thought 6 points or more and you need to declare to your insurance.

You have to declare all points even, if you have only 1. No doubt some else somewhere thinks you only need to inform your insurance company if you have 12 points.

readytosnap

stefanovich wrote: »

he is waiting for a letter. Perhaps it won't arrive? .

probably right if using eircode

LeakingLava

A little bit off-topic:

A friend of mine got speeding points a few months back. He didn't have enough money at the time so he considered risking not telling the insurance company. Now that he has enough money for the expected increase of price, he wants to let the insurance know of his points. What's going to happen? He's just wondering what the insurance could do to him because the insurance will want to know of the exact date of the offence so will he have to pay for those months that the insurance was supposed to be increased?

Kalman

tombrown wrote: »

My wife & I both got separately hit for speeding recently and are due 3 pts each.

I am currently on 2 pts and she is on 4 (all from when speeding was 2 pts a go). At the time neither of them impacted insurance premiums (or so I was told)

So two quick questions :

1) Any idea what this situation will do to our respective insurance premiums? i.e. are we facing a hike in the order of 5-10% or more like 50-100% (we both have max NCB)

2) Should I declare points to insurance company as soon as they are applied or just when I next renew?

thanks

Usually for speeding points, in my case it was a 36% increase on the following year's insurance.

gaiscioch

Kalman wrote: »

Usually for speeding points, in my case it was a 36% increase on the following year's insurance.

They are some really expensive penalty points - a 36% increase on top of the €80 is very substantial. No wonder the great and the good of this great little country are going to such efforts to have them quashed.

Kalman

gaiscioch wrote: »

They are some really expensive penalty points - a 36% increase on top of the €80 is very substantial. No wonder the great and the good of this great little country are going to such efforts to have them quashed.

36% on top of my premium 571 euros. :mad:

It's designed to make you stop and think>>>in other words, slow down!

It certainly has that effect on me.

I know of a guy who was banned from the road [not for speeding] but for drink-driving>>he is now finding it extremely difficult to even get a quote for insurance. Their reasoning is "we don't want your business, you are too risky !