Gardai Investigating Voter-Registration promo

conorh91

Hyper-criticism of the Gardai has descended to an all-new low.

A garda from a Dublin Garda station posed for the media with retired Supreme Court Judge, Catherine McGuinness, to encourage voter registration in the upcoming referenda.

However, because the former Judge is a Yes voter in at least one of the referenda, the Gardai have been accused of political bias because a Garda appeared in a voter-registration promo with a Yes voter

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/yes-equality-denies-politicising-garda%C3%AD-in-photo-shoot-1.2181325

This is not a marriage equality issue. I happen to believe No voters have some legitimate points and are being unfairly vilified.

But smearing the Gardai in this way is ridiculous. How can you accuse the Gardai of politicisation because one garda encouraged voter registration alongside a person who is voting Yes in one of the two referenda?

Is this not conclusive proof that the Garda smear campaign has gotten out of hand?

In my opinion, the Garda are almost as bad for bothering to "investigate" this non-issue.

JonEBGud

If your'e not in you can't win.

mynamejeff

what id like to know is who investigates those who investigate themselves ?

the coast guard ?

Rayne Wooney

No voters have legitimate points?

conorh91

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

No voters have legitimate points?

Personally, I think they do.

That's for another thread. I drew attention to this opinion because I don't want to distract this issue along Yes/No divisions.

Whether you are planning on voting Yes or No, surely you can see this story is a risible attack on AGS, and indicates that Garda-bashing has gotten way out of hand.

Dozer Dave

Ari Inexpensive Underdog wrote: »

I don't know what a tracker mortgage is.

Its a morgage that comes with a tracking number.

Yellowblackbird

Dozer Dave wrote: »

Its a morgage that comes with a tracking number.

Completely wrong.
A tracker mortgage is simply the loan that enables one to purchase a dirt track where one doesn't have the capital funds up front and the bank uses the dirt track itself as security against the loan and retains the deeds of the dirt track.

Pherekydes

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

No voters have legitimate points?

I'm sure some do.

ohnonotgmail

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

No voters have legitimate points?

If they do i would love to hear them on the marriage referendum thread. Assuming the points are not concerned with the right to adopt or have children. because those are irrelevant to the referendum.

seamus

At the end of the day it's a valid complaint.

While the Gardai were there as part of a voter registration push, it was one organised by the Yes side and the Gardai were in effect seen to be promoting a Yes vote, which is against the ethos of the Gardai as an impartial and apolitical body.

While it's not seen as in any way inflammatory or strange to support a Yes vote on this occasion, we still need to remember that this is a referendum like any other and there are standards of conduct which need to be maintained. Yes, it's a petty and vindictive complaint, but it's a valid one.

Little CuChulainn

seamus wrote: »

At the end of the day it's a valid complaint.

While the Gardai were there as part of a voter registration push, it was one organised by the Yes side and the Gardai were in effect seen to be promoting a Yes vote, which is against the ethos of the Gardai as an impartial and apolitical body.

While it's not seen as in any way inflammatory or strange to support a Yes vote on this occasion, we still need to remember that this is a referendum like any other and there are standards of conduct which need to be maintained. Yes, it's a petty and vindictive complaint, but it's a valid one.

It's not valid. It's a human rights issue, not a political one. Good luck trying to discipline a Garda for advocating human rights and equality.

ohnonotgmail

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's not valid. It's a human rights issue, not a political one. Good luck trying to discipline a Garda for advocating human rights and equality.

while i agree that it is a human rights issue, urging people to register to vote is a political act. the gardai should be apolitical. It is very easy to say that this is a petty complaint (and i agree it is) but if the guard was posing with somebody on the No side i think the reaction here would be very different.

Little CuChulainn

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

while i agree that it is a human rights issue, urging people to register to vote is a political act. the gardai should be apolitical. It is very easy to say that this is a petty complaint (and i agree it is) but if the guard was posing with somebody on the No side i think the reaction here would be very different.

If you don't want Gardaí involved in getting people to register then don't make them an integral part of the registration process.

ohnonotgmail

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

If you don't want Gardaí involved in getting people to register then don't make them an integral part of the registration process.

they are not an integral part of getting people to register. They should not care whether an individual is registered. What part do they play in the registration process? isnt that done by councils?

Little CuChulainn

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they are not an integral part of getting people to register. They should not care whether an individual is registered. What part do they play in the registration process? isnt that done by councils?

A Garda must certify your identity on the form. That's why they have the stamps in the photos.

ScumLord

conorh91 wrote: »

Is this not conclusive proof that the Garda smear campaign has gotten out of hand?

No, the gardi are supposed to be impartial enforcers of the law. This isn't really much more than a Faux pas, gardi will change guidelines and it won't be an issue again.

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

Completely wrong.
A tracker mortgage is simply the loan that enables one to purchase a dirt track where one doesn't have the capital funds up front and the bank uses the dirt track itself as security against the loan and retains the deeds of the dirt track.

Wrong. A tracker mortgage is one where your money is invested mostly in tracker bars. Your investment can go up or down, or get eaten by bank staff, it's very risky.

ohnonotgmail

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

A Garda must certify your identity on the form. That's why they have the stamps in the photos.

this is the registration form i believe http://www.checktheregister.ie/appforms%5CRFA_English_Form.pdf

no mention of the gardai stamping it. You do need a form stamped by the gardai if you changed address. But that is just to confirm your identity. the same as they do for many other official forms. But actually you dont even need them for that as the change of address form can be signed by a doctor or council official. So i dont see how they are "an integral part of the process"

ohnonotgmail

custard gannet wrote: »

Answer the question.

nice if you let us know what question you are referring to.

What if the person was a No voter, would it be an issue?

Little CuChulainn

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

this is the registration form i believe http://www.checktheregister.ie/appforms%5CRFA_English_Form.pdf

no mention of the gardai stamping it. You do need a form stamped by the gardai if you changed address. But that is just to confirm your identity. the same as they do for many other official forms. But actually you dont even need them for that as the change of address form can be signed by a doctor or council official. So i dont see how they are "an integral part of the process"

It's too late for that form. This is the form people must get signed at this late stage.

http://www.checktheregister.ie/appforms%5CRFA2_English_Form.pdf

ohnonotgmail

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's too late for that form. This is the form people must get signed at this late stage.

http://www.checktheregister.ie/appforms%5CRFA2_English_Form.pdf

again you do not have to have your identity confirmed by the gardai. there are alternatives. Hence "not integral".

I said this in an earlier post

if the guard was posing with somebody on the No side i think the reaction here would be very different.

Do you think the reaction would be different if they had posed with a No campaigner?

bjork

There's more pictures of them promoting a "Yes Vote" in some college doing the rounds, I think they were registering students to vote, but the Gardai had a big ould pile of yes badges on the table



I though the Gardai were Apolitical?

Little CuChulainn

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

again you do not have to have your identity confirmed by the gardai. there are alternatives. Hence "not integral".

I said this in an earlier post


Do you think the reaction would be different if they had posed with a No campaigner?

Are you looking at the same form I posted? Secion 11 must be signed in the presence of a member of An Garda Síochána.

ohnonotgmail

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Are you looking at the same form I posted? Secion 11 must be signed in the presence of a member of An Garda Síochána.

read it again.

11.
Declaration
This section must be signed in the presence of a member of the
Garda Síochána at your local Garda Station
(section 12(a)
-
note 6) or in the presence of a Registration Authority Official (section 12(b)
–
note 6)

Phoebas

The Gardai have admitted that this was not appropriate.

Garda Press Office wrote:

While the event was held in good faith to promote the fact that people can register at Garda stations to vote in the upcoming referenda, it was not appropriate for this kind of photocall to take place given An Garda Siochana’s status as an apolitical and impartial organisation.

floggg

seamus wrote: »

At the end of the day it's a valid complaint.

While the Gardai were there as part of a voter registration push, it was one organised by the Yes side and the Gardai were in effect seen to be promoting a Yes vote, which is against the ethos of the Gardai as an impartial and apolitical body.

While it's not seen as in any way inflammatory or strange to support a Yes vote on this occasion, we still need to remember that this is a referendum like any other and there are standards of conduct which need to be maintained. Yes, it's a petty and vindictive complaint, but it's a valid one.

No they weren't. They were just there to support registration and there's nothing in the picture to indicate the Garda supprted a yes vote.

It's simpy Keith Mills and co kicking up a fuss (a) to continue to paint themselves as victims who are being persecuted just because they want to discriminate and (b) because they know a medium to high turn out will likely mean a yes vote.

bjork

In UCC

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDA_ewJVIAAH1mr.jpg

ohnonotgmail

floggg wrote: »

No they weren't. They were just there to support registration and there's nothing in the picture to indicate the Garda supprted a yes vote.

It's simpy Keith Mills and co kicking up a fuss (a) to continue to paint themselves as victims who are being persecuted just because they want to discriminate and (b) because they know a medium to high turn out will likely mean a yes vote.

I'll ask you the question i asked earlier that nobody seems to want to answer :

Do you think the reaction would be different if they had posed with a No campaigner? Or with a tableful of No badges?

floggg

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

again you do not have to have your identity confirmed by the gardai. there are alternatives. Hence "not integral".

I said this in an earlier post


Do you think the reaction would be different if they had posed with a No campaigner?

I can't see any complaints from the yes side if the no side want to help increase registration.

Honestly, registration is an apolitical act - it's what you do with the vote that's political.

bjork

What side are the force taking in the Abortion Debate?

Little CuChulainn

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

read it again.

It is primarily the responsibility of the Gardaí. It can only be witnessed by the other two in the event that you cannot get it signed by the Gardaí but you must have reason. In fact, you must submit said reason in writing.

ohnonotgmail

floggg wrote: »

I can't see any complaints from the yes side if the no side want to help increase registration.

Honestly, registration is an apolitical act - it's what you do with the vote that's political.

its not apolitical if they are distributing literature for one side.

Phoebas

floggg wrote: »

Honestly, registration is an apolitical act - it's what you do with the vote that's political.

When a Garda is doing a photocall with someone campaigning on the Yes side or providing Yes badges to people registering to vote, then it becomes political.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDA_ewJVIAAH1mr.jpg

The Gardai themselves had accepted that the photocall was inappropriate.

ohnonotgmail

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It is primarily the responsibility of the Gardaí. It can only be witnessed by the other two in the event that you cannot get it signed by the Gardaí but you must have reason. In fact, you must submit said reason in writing.

that doesnt affect anything i have said. that photo posted of the Yes badges on the table in front of the garda is a disgrace to the force. If they were No badges i would be saying the same thing.

Little CuChulainn

Phoebas wrote: »

When a Garda is doing a photocall with someone campaigning on the Yes side or providing Yes badges to people registering to vote, then it becomes political.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDA_ewJVIAAH1mr.jpg

The Gardai themselves had accepted that the photocall was inappropriate.

There is no photo showing a Garda giving out badges. The photo above is taken from a particular angle to make it look like that but the other photos show that she has a bunch of forms and a station stamp in front of her.

ohnonotgmail

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

There is no photo showing a Garda giving out badges. The photo above is taken from a particular angle to make it look like that but the other photos show that she has a bunch of forms and a station stamp in front of her.

they are on the table in front of her

Phoebas

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

There is no photo showing a Garda giving out badges. The photo above is taken from a particular angle to make it look like that but the other photos show that she has a bunch of forms and a station stamp in front of her.

I like to see the other photos. The photo I can see has the Garda with a big pile of Yes badges. If it was a pile of No badges I doubt people would excuse it so easily.

bjork

Here's it from another angle


http://i60.tinypic.com/iw7wis.jpg

Little CuChulainn

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they are on the table in front of her

Phoebas wrote: »

I like to see the other photos. The photo I can see has the Garda with a big pile of Yes badges. If it was a pile of No badges I doubt people would excuse it so easily.

https://twitter.com/MichaelKellyIC/status/590090411273756673/photo/1

Like the man says. No photo of her handing out badges, only witnessing forms.

suicide_circus

Don't see what the big deal is. The integrity of the democratic process as it applies to referenda in this country was completely and irrevocably undermined with Lisbon II.

ScumLord

bjork wrote: »

Here's it from another angle


http://i60.tinypic.com/iw7wis.jpg

Is that guard making people kiss her ring?

My name is URL

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they are on the table in front of her

That's just because of the angle the photo was taken at. The badges are actually in another room 4 miles away =p

Meh.. hardly a big deal in any case. Not sure what the point in defending it is when Gardai have said it was inappropriate though.

ohnonotgmail

bjork wrote: »

Here's it from another angle


http://i60.tinypic.com/iw7wis.jpg

that looks conclusively to me that the badges are in front of the garda.

ohnonotgmail

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichaelKellyIC/status/590090411273756673/photo/1

Like the man says. No photo of her handing out badges, only witnessing forms.

the badges are on the table in front of the guard.

bjork

ScumLord wrote: »

Is that guard making people kiss her ring?

Yes, when she got away with having the badges, the power went to her head

ohnonotgmail

ScumLord wrote: »

Is that guard making people kiss her ring?

ewwwwww

floggg

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

its not apolitical if they are distributing literature for one side.

I fully accept they shouldn't be there with Yes literature.

The photocall in question didn't have any Yes material.

The students union stuff with the badges is inapproropaite- but that's not what Keith Mills was complaining about in the article posted.

Phoebas

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichaelKellyIC/status/590090411273756673/photo/1

Like the man says. No photo of her handing out badges, only witnessing forms.

That photo is even worse.
It not only shows the badges on her table, but in proximity to huge banners advocating a Yes vote. She is effectively participating in a Yes campaign event.

In an environment where the media interviews are carried out with stopwatches to ensure that there is no scent of bias, allowing the Gardai to appear to advocate one side is inappropriate.
And the Gardai have accepted this themselves in relation to the incident in the OP.

ohnonotgmail

floggg wrote: »

I fully accept they shouldn't be there with Yes literature.

The photocall in question didn't have any Yes material.

The students union stuff with the badges is inapproropaite- but that's not what Keith Mills was complaining about in the article posted.

but it did have somebody campaigning for the Yes side. Why couldnt they just have a photocall without campaigners present? who organised the photocall? what is the gardai or was it the Yes campaign?

floggg

Phoebas wrote: »

When a Garda is doing a photocall with someone campaigning on the Yes side or providing Yes badges to people registering to vote, then it becomes political.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDA_ewJVIAAH1mr.jpg

The Gardai themselves had accepted that the photocall was inappropriate.

There was nothing in the photo of anything political, and fact that she's involved in the campaign doesn't chaste the message.

If they added in somebody from Iona it wouldn't have changed the message, but perhaps they should have just to avoid this reaction.

Though of course Iona "aren't" campaigning are they. That might involve them having to disclose who in the US is funding them.

Phoebas

floggg wrote: »

There was nothing in the photo of anything political[...]

Aw c'mon - now you're just taking the piss.