What should I do?

noway12345

I was doing my shopping in aldi on the Long Mile Road in Dublin if anyone knows it. When I finished shopping I got into my car and went to the exit. You have to turn left on the exit from aldi and there's 2 lanes; a bus lane on the left and another on the right. When attempting to exit there was 2 cars coming in the right hand lane. I decided I'd turn onto the bus lane and then go into the right hand lane when the cars pass me.
Once I started to speed up and get into second gear I was looking in my right wing mirror trying to get into the other lane. For a reason unknown to me at the time, the other 2 cars slowed down. I thought it a bit strange, I was between the first car and the second, I decided to speed up to overtake the first car and turn right. When I was in the process of doing this a man stood out in the road about 30 metres ahead and waved me into the side of the road. It was a policeman who wasn't in uniform and had an unmarked jeep parked in the bus lane.
He had the blue lights on in his front window (this was the reason the other 2 cars were slowing down earlier). I pulled in behind his jeep and let down my window. The conversation went something like this:
Guard: "you don't look like you're driving a bus, what are you doing in the bus lane?"
Me: "I was trying to get into the other lane but I couldn't get space."
Guard: "you're after coming all the way along here, you had loads of opportunities"
Me: "No, I just came out from aldi (I pointed to the shopping bag beside me in the passenger seat) I had no chance to get out"
Guard: (sarcastically) "Oh I'm blind am I? I didn't just see big gaps where you could have moved"
Me: (angrily) "there was no gaps, I just came out from aldi, what was I meant to do?"
Guard: "do you have your licence?"
Me: (I didn't say anything just handed him my licence from my pocket.)
Guard: (started taking down details on a little tablet type thing, not sure what it was, then went around to the back of my car to take down the number plate I presume, he the returned to the window side)
Guard: "You've had your licence for long enough to know you can't drive in the bus lane, you'll get a summons in the post"

I didn't say anything as I realised it wasn't helping my cause and took off.

What I want to know is what happens now? Nothing like this has ever happened to me before. I get the summons in the post and can I argue my case when I go to court? What way does it work? I don't have a clue what to do. I understand I shouldn't be in the bus lane but I was in it for maybe 50 or 60 metres while trying to get out.

ABajaninCork

Fixed Penalty. E80 and three points. 28 days to pay the fine. If you don't pay, then it doubles. If still unpaid? Court.

noway12345

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Fixed Penalty. E80 and three points. 28 days to pay the fine. If you don't pay, then it doubles. If still unpaid? Court.

So I can't challenge this?

ABajaninCork

You could. But I wouldn't bother. If you challenge this in court, it might turn out worse (i.e. bigger fine). Just pay it and be done with it.

Fiskar

If the Garda saw the situation you portray he would have let you off. Obviously he saw you, saw ample time for you to get out of the bus lane but while the other cars saw him, you didn't.
Take the fine, in future block the bus lane out of Aldi to get into the correct lane (or be patient) .

noway12345

ABajaninCork wrote: »

You could. But I wouldn't bother. If you challenge this in court, it might turn out worse (i.e. bigger fine). Just pay it and be done with it.

But I don't think I did anything wrong. 80 euro is not something I have lying around at the moment. My rent is due at the end of the month and I'm struggling to get enough money to pay it. This 80 euro will make it impossible.

noway12345

Fiskar wrote: »

If the Garda saw the situation you portray he would have let you off. Obviously he saw you, saw ample time for you to get out of the bus lane but while the other cars saw him, you didn't.
Take the fine, in future block the bus lane out of Aldi to get into the correct lane (or be patient) .

There wasn't, the other 2 cars slowed way down. If the gaurd hadn't of been there they would have drove on and I would have slipped in behind them. I don't know what the guard was doing there. Thinking about it after I'm guessing he stopped someone else on the road and was still there when I was on the road. Maybe he couldn't tell that the other drivers had slowed way down. I don't know for how long he seen me driving, I had to point out to him that I came out of aldi.

Rob Thomas

noway12345 wrote: »

But I don't think I did anything wrong. 80 euro is not something I have lying around at the moment. My rent is due at the end of the month and I'm struggling to get enough money to pay it. This 80 euro will make it impossible.

I know you are disappointed but you just have to take this on the chin. Regardless of the circumstances, you were in the Bus Lane so technically you are in the wrong. I understand it's a lot of money but that's even more of a reason not to take the chance of a higher cost in court when your defence is what it is. The Guard is not going to chance his opinion and ultimately the court would side with his version of events in 99.99% of cases.

In respect of time to pay, you have 28 days from the date of the notice, not the date of the offence, and it will take a couple of weeks to come so just try to save the money over the 5-6 weeks.

Life's too short, it's unfair but try to move forwards.

Rackstar

noway12345 wrote: »

But I don't think I did anything wrong. 80 euro is not something I have lying around at the moment. My rent is due at the end of the month and I'm struggling to get enough money to pay it. This 80 euro will make it impossible.

It'll be a couple of months before the fine comes out I'd imagine and then you have a period of time to pay. It won't be out this month or next probably.

noway12345

Rob Thomas wrote: »

I know you are disappointed but you just have to take this on the chin. Regardless of the circumstances, you were in the Bus Lane so technically you are in the wrong. I understand it's a lot of money but that's even more of a reason not to take the chance of a higher cost in court when your defence is what it is. The Guard is not going to chance his opinion and ultimately the court would side with his version of events in 99.99% of cases.

In respect of time to pay, you have 28 days from the date of the notice, not the date of the offence, and it will take a couple of weeks to come so just try to save the money over the 5-6 weeks.

Life's too short, it's unfair but try to move forwards.

I know I was in the bus lane but it was only for 60 metres or so, 80 euro's for that is crazy and with the penalty points will my insurance go up? Are you sure there's no way of making my case in court? Has anyone got something like this overturned before?
Maybe I'll just have to accept it, at least it's not straight away as you say. It doesn't seem right though, I've seen some crazy driving in Dublin and the guards are nowhere to be seen and then a short time in the bus lane with only 2 other cars around. Anyway, I'm just venting now.

noway12345

Rackstar wrote: »

It'll be a couple of months before the fine comes out I'd imagine and then you have a period of time to pay. It won't be out this month or next probably.

That's good at least. Thanks.

Rob Thomas

noway12345 wrote: »

I know I was in the bus lane but it was only for 60 metres or so, 80 euro's for that is crazy and with the penalty points will my insurance go up? Are you sure there's no way of making my case in court? Has anyone got something like this overturned before?
Maybe I'll just have to accept it, at least it's not straight away as you say. It doesn't seem right though, I've seen some crazy driving in Dublin and the guards are nowhere to be seen and then a short time in the bus lane with only 2 other cars around. Anyway, I'm just venting now.

If they are your first points, most insurers won't apply a loading.

ABajaninCork

The Gards have 28 days to produce the ticket. It'll be sent in the post. From the date of issue on the ticket, it's 28 days to pay the E80. Fine then rises to E160 for the next 28 days. Effectively, you have 56 days from the date of issue to pay it. After that? Summons and court.

So you have a bit of time to save it up. Then off to the Post Office toute de suite!

MarkAnthony

noway12345 wrote: »

I know I was in the bus lane but it was only for 60 metres or so, 80 euro's for that is crazy and with the penalty points will my insurance go up? Are you sure there's no way of making my case in court? Has anyone got something like this overturned before?
Maybe I'll just have to accept it, at least it's not straight away as you say. It doesn't seem right though, I've seen some crazy driving in Dublin and the guards are nowhere to be seen and then a short time in the bus lane with only 2 other cars around. Anyway, I'm just venting now.

They're no where to be seen until you see them and they do you. It happens.

Why not slow down let things pass you and slip into the correct lane?

Anyways yes you can go to court, expect a bigger fine, more points and a legal bill if you want to effectively put the point across. Sucks but to be blunt you were in the bus lane so there is very little you can do I'm afraid.

Pat Mustard

This sounds like an unfortunate case.

If it was me, I wouldn't fight something over a minor traffic offence unless I was pretty sure of an acquittal.

Sometimes people just end up running afoul of the system and there little that can be done about it. An unfortunate side-effect of what is now an over-regulated system, in my opinion.

j1979p

I thought the fine for bus lane offence was €60? Has this been increased?

Marcusm

noway12345 wrote: »

I know I was in the bus lane but it was only for 60 metres or so, 80 euro's for that is crazy and with the penalty points will my insurance go up? Are you sure there's no way of making my case in court? Has anyone got something like this overturned before?
Maybe I'll just have to accept it, at least it's not straight away as you say. It doesn't seem right though, I've seen some crazy driving in Dublin and the guards are nowhere to be seen and then a short time in the bus lane with only 2 other cars around. Anyway, I'm just venting now.

Your defence is an admission that you committed the offence but only for a short period. This is a waste of court time and I would hope that would be reflected in a significantly increased fine. The first parking ticket I received was 2 minutes after the expiry of my ticket. It was a costly lesson. The next time, you'll need to be more observant of possible Garda checks or more patient/forceful when attempting to get into the traffic lane.

slimjimmc

noway12345 wrote: »

But I don't think I did anything wrong. 80 euro is not something I have lying around at the moment. My rent is due at the end of the month and I'm struggling to get enough money to pay it. This 80 euro will make it impossible.

You intentionally entered a bus lane (presumably while it was still in operation) to use it as a merging lane, this is forbidden. It was an error of judgement that put you in an awkward situation. The proper thing would have been to wait behind the stop/yield line until the driving lane was clear and without blocking the bus lane.
If you go to court it would be advisable to get legal representation as he/she would know how to plead on your behalf.

Skatedude

You drove in the bus lane=illegal=wrong=fine not complicated

Little CuChulainn

Pretty sure there are no points for a bus lane fine. The device he was using is for recording your details digitally. He will dock it when he goes back to station and fine will be issued automatically. I wouldn't expect a long delay until it arrives.

glic71rods46t0

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Pretty sure there are no points for a bus lane fine. The device he was using is for recording your details digitally. He will dock it when he goes back to station and fine will be issued automatically. I wouldn't expect a long delay until it arrives.

It carries a €60 fine and 1 penalty point. The offence is failure to comply with traffic lane markings

Little CuChulainn

wcyp7ik9jur8hx wrote: »

It carries a €60 fine and 1 penalty point. The offence is failure to comply with traffic lane markings

There is a specific fixed charge offence of driving in a bus lane.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0135.html

Unless it's been change recently.

hullaballoo

Are there definitely penalty points for this as well?

Rob Thomas

hullaballoo wrote: »

Are there definitely penalty points for this as well?

List here. I can't see a specific mention but there's a lot of them!!!

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf

j1979p

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

There is a specific fixed charge offence of driving in a bus lane.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0135.html

Unless it's been change recently.

Yes, and it is €60 under Schedule 2 (as I thought)

plodder

noway12345 wrote: »

I was doing my shopping in aldi on the Long Mile Road in Dublin if anyone knows it. When I finished shopping I got into my car and went to the exit. You have to turn left on the exit from aldi and there's 2 lanes; a bus lane on the left and another on the right. When attempting to exit there was 2 cars coming in the right hand lane. I decided I'd turn onto the bus lane and then go into the right hand lane when the cars pass me.
Once I started to speed up and get into second gear I was looking in my right wing mirror trying to get into the other lane. For a reason unknown to me at the time, the other 2 cars slowed down. I thought it a bit strange, I was between the first car and the second, I decided to speed up to overtake the first car and turn right. When I was in the process of doing this a man stood out in the road about 30 metres ahead and waved me into the side of the road. It was a policeman who wasn't in uniform and had an unmarked jeep parked in the bus lane.
He had the blue lights on in his front window (this was the reason the other 2 cars were slowing down earlier). I pulled in behind his jeep and let down my window. The conversation went something like this:
Guard: "you don't look like you're driving a bus, what are you doing in the bus lane?"
Me: "I was trying to get into the other lane but I couldn't get space."
Guard: "you're after coming all the way along here, you had loads of opportunities"
Me: "No, I just came out from aldi (I pointed to the shopping bag beside me in the passenger seat) I had no chance to get out"
Guard: (sarcastically) "Oh I'm blind am I? I didn't just see big gaps where you could have moved"
Me: (angrily) "there was no gaps, I just came out from aldi, what was I meant to do?"
Guard: "do you have your licence?"
Me: (I didn't say anything just handed him my licence from my pocket.)
Guard: (started taking down details on a little tablet type thing, not sure what it was, then went around to the back of my car to take down the number plate I presume, he the returned to the window side)
Guard: "You've had your licence for long enough to know you can't drive in the bus lane, you'll get a summons in the post"

I didn't say anything as I realised it wasn't helping my cause and took off.

What I want to know is what happens now? Nothing like this has ever happened to me before. I get the summons in the post and can I argue my case when I go to court? What way does it work? I don't have a clue what to do. I understand I shouldn't be in the bus lane but I was in it for maybe 50 or 60 metres while trying to get out.

How far was it from the Aldi exit to where you were stopped, and were you indicating to get out of the bus lane the whole time?

noway12345

It was about 80 metres from aldi. I pass by there a good bit and I've looked at the spot he stopped me, was a very short distance. And yes I had my indicators on.
I've tried to look into this more and I've read some things where people have said they've gone to court and the garda never showed up, the case was thrown out in these instances. Is this a regular thing?

Losty Dublin

I know that stretch of road and junction quite well. Cars driving down the bus lane (Often at speed; there is a 30KMP zone just after Aldi.) are an issue that have actually caused a fair amount of minor accidents at Drimnagh Castle CBS. There's also an issue whereby cars in the bus lane are often blocking the bus stop at Walkinstown Avenue, which causes it's own delays and issues.

As such, it is regularly patrolled with traffic checks and they don't take too lightly to excuses, however honest that they may be. Best to suck it up as a day in court will cost you a day of your time and a higher penalty in court if found guilty.

plodder

I may have mis-read your OP. I thought that there was two lanes exiting the shop, one basically directing you into the bus lane. But, reading it again, I don't think that is the case. So, I wouldn't be so sure about challenging it in court. You'd also have to assume that the garda would turn up to court. There seems to be a sign right at the exit as well showing the times of operation. So, not much scope there either. Suck it up I think

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.323831,-6.336714,3a,75y,63.51h,69.5t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sHV8iFxzMSMLRPiaewydFpw!2e0

noway12345

There was 2 cars in the other lane, it wasn't busy and the gaurd was parked in the bus lane, surely that would have caused more of an obstruction? I think he had stopped someone else there and then seen me coming. I had to let him know I had come out from the aldi.

noway12345

plodder wrote: »

I may have mis-read your OP. I thought that there was two lanes exiting the shop, one basically directing you into the bus lane. But, reading it again, I don't think that is the case. So, I wouldn't be so sure about challenging it in court. You'd also have to assume that the garda would turn up to court. There seems to be a sign right at the exit as well showing the times of operation. So, not much scope there either. Suck it up I think

If you look to the left on that google maps you'll see 2 cars trying to exit. I'd say it's likely that they had to exit onto the bus lane eventually also. I think it's very harsh but I suppose there's no way out of it unless the garda doesn't show up.

?Cee?view

noway12345 wrote: »

When attempting to exit there was 2 cars coming in the right hand lane. I decided I'd turn onto the bus lane and then go into the right hand lane when the cars pass me.

I'm sorry, but it seems very clear that you do deserve to be fined in this case.

You intentionally drove directly into the bus lane and used it to attempt to merge.

You should have waited for the two cars coming from your right to pass and then driven into the driving lane.

You need to pay the fine, but more significantly, you need to learn your lesson and move on from this.

noway12345

?Cee?view wrote: »

I'm sorry, but it seems very clear that you do deserve to be fined in this case.

You intentionally drove directly into the bus lane and used it to attempt to merge.

You should have waited for the two cars coming from your right to pass and then driven into the driving lane.

You need to pay the fine, but more significantly, you need to learn your lesson and move on from this.

I still think it's harsh. Everybody would be getting fines regularly if their every little mistake was punished. Is this the kind of road system we want? If the driving is dangerous or causing trouble then people should be punished, I drove in the bus lane for 80 metres with no bus around. Surely stopping me while parked in the bus lane caused more of an obstruction?

schemingbohemia

noway12345 wrote: »

I still think it's harsh. Everybody would be getting fines regularly if their every little mistake was punished. Is this the kind of road system we want? If the driving is dangerous or causing trouble then people should be punished, I drove in the bus lane for 80 metres with no bus around. Surely stopping me while parked in the bus lane caused more of an obstruction?

What was your rush that you couldn't wait for the two cars to go past thus allowing you into the driving lane?

noway12345

schemingbohemia wrote: »

What was your rush that you couldn't wait for the two cars to go past thus allowing you into the driving lane?

There was no rush. I turned onto the bus thinking they would be passed me very quickly and I'd just turn out to the other lane. They slowed down by a huge amount, they did this because they seen the gaurd. I didn't see him and I didn't know why they had slowed down so much. Maybe I should have slowed down to 15kmph and wait for them to pass me but I decided to speed up and get ahead of the first car. I was inbetween both.

Little CuChulainn

That particular area is heavily patrolled due to congestion issues. It's patrolled by both local and traffic Gardaí. I wouldn't rely on them not showing up. You are unlikely to be the only one they have in court that day.

RainyDay

noway12345 wrote: »

I still think it's harsh. Everybody would be getting fines regularly if their every little mistake was punished. Is this the kind of road system we want? If the driving is dangerous or causing trouble then people should be punished, I drove in the bus lane for 80 metres with no bus around. Surely stopping me while parked in the bus lane caused more of an obstruction?

So are you suggesting a general free-for-all when it comes to bus lanes with no buses in sight?

?Cee?view

noway12345 wrote: »

There was no rush. I turned onto the bus thinking they would be passed me very quickly and I'd just turn out to the other lane.

But can you not see that this is what you've done wrong? It's a zero sum situation. You just shouldn't have done this. It's irrelevant whether you then travelled 10 or 100 metres in the bus lane. You shouldn't have chosen to drive into it in the first place.

noway12345

RainyDay wrote: »

So are you suggesting a general free-for-all when it comes to bus lanes with no buses in sight?

No, I'm suggesting a bit of common sense. Clearly when there is no obstruction or dangerous driving then this shouldn't be punished.

noway12345

?Cee?view wrote: »

But can you not see that this is what you've done wrong? It's a zero sum situation. You just shouldn't have done this. It's irrelevant whether you then travelled 10 or 100 metres in the bus lane. You shouldn't have chosen to drive into it in the first place.

So every car that ever puts a wheel in the bus lane should receive a fine? Have you never entered the bus lane?

Pat Mustard

Mod:

No more off-topic pot-shots at the OP; they are dragging the discussion off-topic.

?Cee?view

noway12345 wrote: »

So every car that ever puts a wheel in the bus lane should receive a fine? Have you never entered the bus lane?

Yes. Yes.

I've no problem with either proposition.

Otherwise, the entire concept is unworkable.

Let's look at it another way. You're not looking to be excused for an inadvertent mistake. You're looking to be excused for intentionally and knowingly breaking the rule. The former might be excusable. The latter shouldn't be.

Can you not now see that you should simply have waited until your lane was free? This would have been the safer and correct course (literally) to take.

Uno my Uno.

noway12345 wrote: »

No, I'm suggesting a bit of common sense. Clearly when there is no obstruction or dangerous driving then this shouldn't be punished.

The Rules are there to be followed, the bus lane is for buses, not for shoppers to pull out of Lidl. You broke the rules and you must expect to be punished for it. Yes it must sting like hell and yes it may be a hardship on you but you should look at adapting your future behaviour to make sure it doesn't happen again.

In other words, learn your lesson, don't do it again. I doubt you are too concerned about the "common sense" of other people's fines, just your own.

noway12345

?Cee?view wrote: »

Yes. Yes.

I've no problem with either proposition.

Otherwise, the entire concept is unworkable.

Let's look at it another way. You're not looking to be excused for an inadvertent mistake. You're looking to be excused for intentionally and knowingly breaking the rule. The former might be excusable. The latter shouldn't be.

Can you not now see that you should simply have waited until your lane was free? This would have been the safer and correct course (literally) to take.

My aim was to turn onto the bus lane to get to the right speed to slip in behind the second car who'd be driving much faster. Hardly crime of the century.

noway12345

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

The Rules are there to be followed, the bus lane is for buses, not for shoppers to pull out of Lidl. You broke the rules and you must expect to be punished for it. Yes it must sting like hell and yes it may be a hardship on you but you should look at adapting your future behaviour to make sure it doesn't happen again.

In other words, learn your lesson, don't do it again. I doubt you are too concerned about the "common sense" of other people's fines, just your own.

It was aldi and you can even see on the google maps link someone posted earlier that a car comes out from the turn off before aldi into the bus lane. It's a common thing. I'd think it harsh if it was someone else that was punished for this also.

Milly33

To me sorry but it sounds like the guard was on a power trip.. I would call into the guard station and ask to speak to a supervisor, try and get the guards name and explain your case...

Uno my Uno.

noway12345 wrote: »

It was aldi and you can even see on the google maps link someone posted earlier that a car comes out from the turn off before aldi into the bus lane. It's a common thing. I'd think it harsh if it was someone else that was punished for this also.

Regardless of which discount German supermarket it was and regardless of how frequently people do it, its illegal to drive in the bus lane. You have no hope of success if you contest the matter which will result in a larger fine and more points. Pay the Fine when it arrives and respect the rules of the road in the future.

Milly33

It is illegal when they decide it is. I have seen plenty of fecking cars driving in the bus land, people parking in bus lanes all this sorry but the guard is being a dick

noway12345

Milly33 wrote: »

To me sorry but it sounds like the guard was on a power trip.. I would call into the guard station and ask to speak to a supervisor, try and get the guards name and explain your case...

He got visably angry when I pointed out that I wasn't driving all the way up in the bus lane like he said and I'd just come out of aldi. I might try what you suggest. Thanks.

Uno my Uno.

Milly33 wrote: »

To me sorry but it sounds like the guard was on a power trip.. I would call into the guard station and ask to speak to a supervisor, try and get the guards name and explain your case...

I think the Garda saw somebody illegally driving in the Bus lane and gave them a ticket but who knows you might be right. I wouldn't expect too much sympathy at the Cop Shop though.

Stheno

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

I think the Garda saw somebody illegally driving in the Bus lane and gave them a ticket but who knows you might be right. I wouldn't expect too much sympathy at the Cop Shop though.

Agreed op just needs to pay the fine