How does one become competent at taking bodyfat assessments using a caliper?

CM24

So, I always hear that the only reliable means of getting a bodyfat measurement is to either get a DEXA scan or have someone experienced with Harpenden calipers take your measurements for you. However, I've always heard that it takes hundreds of measurements before a person can be considered reliable using the calipers.

So, my question is, who are you supposed to ''practice'' taking measurements on? I'm sure most people have a friend or family member who'd be happy to strip off and get measured, but I can't imagine them agreeing to do it more than a dozen times. I guess if you're a PT at the gym you could offer free assessments but it's not really ethical to give hundreds of people bodyfat %'s that could be miles off.

Can anyone enlighten me? I know there's a few PT's here (Transform, Hanley?) that do Caliper measurements.

(I have gotten myself a Slimguide caliper. According to Lyle McDonald, it gives quite similar readings to the much more expensive calipers, and it's also easier to use. I haven't used it yet though. In the long run though, I'd like to be able to provide assessments using the Harpenden calipers.)

Hanley

You spend the first 6+ months doing on people, making a balls of it and bluffing your way thru before you start to get consistent.

Do all the sites you want, repeat 3x, and when you regularly and consistently get all 3 repeats the exact same or very close, you know you're just about competent.

COH

I use the harpenden calipers. Practice practice practice. Be consistent in your measuring sites and practice practice some more.

Transform

COH wrote: »

I use the harpenden calipers. Practice practice practice. Be consistent in your measuring sites and practice practice some more.

yup lots of practice or simply shadow a trainer as they do them.

Harpenden calipers for me also and just as a side note -

Client gets dexa scan done in the morning €€€€ spent,
afternoon calipers test using Parrillo formula (JP formulas were much lower) and it tested within 0.5% of dexa scan result.

Thats more for trainers to know but might interest others also

cc87

Depending what setting you are/want to work in, might be worth looking at ISAK accreditation.

http://www.isakonline.com/courses

CM24

I'd be so worried that I'd mess up the measurements and somehow give the client a higher bodyfat % than their previous test! I guess if that happens I'll just tell them the caliper is a bit off and give them a more generous estimate instead! I have a couple of fellow traners who'll let me do a few practice goes on them anyway.

I've been working as a PT for about a month now and thus far, nobody has actually asked me to take their BF%. I think the majority of people coming to PT's just know that they're chubby and want to be NOT chubby. They don't really care about the actual %'s.

Everybody I see just constantly weighs themselves on the scale and uses that as a measure of progress. Problem is, the weighing scale in the gym gives wildly different measurements if you move it even a couple of inches around the floor. Not to mention the fact that nobody is consistent with regards things like, the time of day they weigh in, what clothes they're wearing, what workout they just did, what they ate/drank, time of the month (females), glycogen status etc.

Next time I see someone weigh in and look disappointed with themselves I'll approach them and offer them a BF% assessment and explain the reasons why it's a better measure of progress.

Mellor

Hanley wrote: »

Do all the sites you want, repeat 3x, and when you regularly and consistently get all 3 repeats the exact same or very close, you know you're just about competent.

This makes the most sense to me. When you are getting consistent numbers, you can be confident that they are become accurate. Only the numbers matter imo. If they are going down, you are losing fat. The accuracy of the bf% value is purely down to the formula.

Transform wrote: »

Client gets dexa scan done in the morning €€€€ spent,
afternoon calipers test using Parrillo formula (JP formulas were much lower) and it tested within 0.5% of dexa scan result.

Thats more for trainers to know but might interest others also

A while ago I was looking for an BF measurement. A few trainers offered it as part of a 1hr initial assessment. And it worked out as almost the same as a dexa. I went for the dexa as I felt the extra info (FFM & fat mass breakdown by bodypart) was worth it/

CM24 wrote:

I'd be so worried that I'd mess up the measurements and somehow give the client a higher bodyfat % than their previous test! I guess if that happens I'll just tell them the caliper is a bit off and give them a more generous estimate instead! I have a couple of fellow traners who'll let me do a few practice goes on them anyway.

I've been working as a PT for about a month now and thus far, nobody has actually asked me to take their BF%. I think the majority of people coming to PT's just know that they're chubby and want to be NOT chubby. They don't really care about the actual %'s.

What club are you based in?
I'll volunteer for practice if you want; . Might even get a chance to compare with dexa.

Hanley

CM24 wrote: »

I'd be so worried that I'd mess up the measurements and somehow give the client a higher bodyfat % than their previous test! I guess if that happens I'll just tell them the caliper is a bit off and give them a more generous estimate instead! I have a couple of fellow traners who'll let me do a few practice goes on them anyway.

I've been working as a PT for about a month now and thus far, nobody has actually asked me to take their BF%. I think the majority of people coming to PT's just know that they're chubby and want to be NOT chubby. They don't really care about the actual %'s.

Everybody I see just constantly weighs themselves on the scale and uses that as a measure of progress. Problem is, the weighing scale in the gym gives wildly different measurements if you move it even a couple of inches around the floor. Not to mention the fact that nobody is consistent with regards things like, the time of day they weigh in, what clothes they're wearing, what workout they just did, what they ate/drank, time of the month (females), glycogen status etc.

Next time I see someone weigh in and look disappointed with themselves I'll approach them and offer them a BF% assessment and explain the reasons why it's a better measure of progress.

Don't wait for them to ask. Offer to do it.

Also helps you sell.

ie If a dude is 20% bodyfat and wants abs he needs to be around 13-14% to START to see em. That's a 6-7% drop at 0.75% or so per week, meaning he needs 10-12 weeks of solid consistent work.

Zillah

I don't know what the hell to make of the calipers. I did a three-point test on myself last week and the calculator spat out 6.5%. It's low but it's not that low. (I think I got 3, 9, and 10, for chest, stomach and thigh, respectively). Even when I tweaked the numbers higher as an experiment I had to go a hell of a lot higher to even get to 10%, which is where I'd have expected it to be.

I have to assume I am making a balls of it but I can't see how I could be getting it so wrong. Might just get a pro to tell me out of sheer curiosity. Obviously they'd be able to use more measurement sites too.

Mellor

I'd imagine if you were 6.5% you'd know.

CM24

Zillah wrote: »

I don't know what the hell to make of the calipers. I did a three-point test on myself last week and the calculator spat out 6.5%. It's low but it's not that low. (I think I got 3, 9, and 10, for chest, stomach and thigh, respectively). Even when I tweaked the numbers higher as an experiment I had to go a hell of a lot higher to even get to 10%, which is where I'd have expected it to be.

I have to assume I am making a balls of it but I can't see how I could be getting it so wrong. Might just get a pro to tell me out of sheer curiosity. Obviously they'd be able to use more measurement sites too.

You're not supposed to use them on yourself though, are you? I'd imagine it's pretty hard to get the angle/pressure perfect. Must be hard to keep your body totally relaxed while doing it too. I've only ever tried it on myself using an Accumeasure calipers, which is designed for self-measurements. Could never get much consistency out of them though.

Zillah

CM24 wrote: »

You're not supposed to use them on yourself though, are you? I'd imagine it's pretty hard to get the angle/pressure perfect. Must be hard to keep your body totally relaxed while doing it too. I've only ever tried it on myself using an Accumeasure calipers, which is designed for self-measurements. Could never get much consistency out of them though.

It's better to have someone else do it for you, but the three-point test can be done on oneself. The other measurement sites you can't do alone. I'm not sure relaxing matters much, you pinch the skin/fat and pull it outwards, you can't tense skin and fat the way you could muscle.

Mellor wrote: »

I'd imagine if you were 6.5% you'd know.

I have been doing a cut for the last couple of months with six-pack-summer being the goal. It's definitely low, as I said, I'd have guessed 10% based on appearance, but it's hard to see how I could be going so wrong with the measurements.

Alf Veedersane

Did you carry the 1?

Common error.

Zillah

I was actually off by a decimal place, it's 65% body fat. Still some work to do.

CM24

While we're on this topic, have any of you guys had any experience with using Ultrasound as a method of testing body composition? I had a chat with one of the older trainers at my gym and he said that it's the ''gold-standard'' these days. He used a device called the BodyMetric which hooked up to his laptop and gave detailed body composition information.

So, I did a bit of reading about it and found this 2013 study. http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jobe/2013/280713/

''It appears that the BodyMetrix BX2000 with Body View software could be the user-friendly ultrasound alternative to skinfolds and other field methods for estimating body fat percentage. This is a breakthrough in moving ultrasound from just providing accurate tissue thickness images at a specific location to using ultrasound to estimate total body fat.''

He said that he preferred it even to the Harpenden calipers. He had a load of reasons why, but one of them was that it means you don't have to go taking a calipers to a womans chest and buttocks area, as you would have to do when doing the BioSignature test.
He said it could show if the person was suffering from high cortisol levels and how their hydration status was, amongst other things.

The 3 grand (Australian Dollars) price tag put me off though.

Mellor

My understanding is that the ultrasound is just going to give you and accurate fat tissue measurement at that site. Basically a very accurate caliper reading.
But from there all the same estimating applies when it comes to 3/7/9 sites and formulas.

I had a go of an infrared scanner recently. You stand on a plate holding handles to lock your pose. And a it spins your around 360 while scanning up and down. The output is a very accurate 3D image, whichs gives you chest, arm, leg measurements etc.
It estimated bf%, but that part was still in beta and mine was pretty far out.

Alf Veedersane

I'm not sure if it's necessarily the gold standard in bodyfat measurement but it does say that the study results correlated closely with DXA scans and it has the added advantage of being portable.