Europe-wide crackdown on speeding

I.S.T.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0416/694435-speed-europe/

Wonder what you guys think of this crack down on speeding? It is beneficial or just a publicity exercise?

The Garda have made a bit of a PR blunder by tweeting their speed trap locations which all happen to be on roads with no fatal or serious crashes in the last 8 years!

https://twitter.com/irishspeedtraps

I.S.T.

OSI wrote: »

Do I put speed cameras on sharp bendy and dangerous roads where people are liable to loss control, where they'll only see the van/camera at the last second resulting in them braking sharply and greatly increasing the risk of them losing control, or do I put them on wide open roads where they're easily seen giving people plenty of time to see them, slow down and mentally readjust their driving going forward?

There are more than just two options.

Valetta

They're just shooting cash cows in a fish barrel, or something.:D

osheen

Most People who do 120kph in a 80 or 100kph zone will also do 60 or 70 in a 50 so if you are caught on a nice bit of road why complain ?
Aand as said above it is as much about visibility and being seen to be out as catching people .

Valetta

osheen wrote: »

Most People who do 120kph in a 80 or 100kph zone will also do 60 or 70 in a 50 so if you are caught on a nice bit of road why complain ?
Aand as said above it is as much about visibility and being seen to be out as catching people .

This is it.

It's about making people aware of speed limits, and they go where thwy will have the largest volume of traffic.

I.S.T.

osheen wrote: »

Most People who do 120kph in a 80 or 100kph zone will also do 60 or 70 in a 50 so if you are caught on a nice bit of road why complain ?
Aand as said above it is as much about visibility and being seen to be out as catching people .

I disagree. The people driving on the Naas road to and from work everyday are not the same people having fatal crashes on the N77 south of Abbeyleix. The locations are motivated more by political and revenue reasons than road safety.

Valetta

OSI wrote: »

I'd be a bit more willing to take road safety concerns from someone that wasn't making money from selling data on avoiding something they claim is only in place to make money. Tad ironic, no?

That no sense makes

I.S.T.

OSI wrote: »

I'd be a bit more willing to take road safety concerns from someone that wasn't making money from selling data on avoiding something they claim is only in place to make money. Tad ironic, no?

Making money?! Are you having a laugh? The money generated doesn't even cover the web hosting costs!

Valetta

OSI wrote: »

The OP sells an app and Garmin GPS data highlighting the location of speed cameras in Ireland.

Ah... now sense it makes

kona

They are shooting fish in a barrel the facts are there.

Somebody needs to get thru to these muppets speed doesn't cause 100% of all accidents like they seem to believe.

I.S.T.

Dublin Port Tunnel and Belfield flyover today. Two extremely safe roads.

Valetta

kona wrote: »

They are shooting fish in a barrel the facts are there.

Somebody needs to get thru to these muppets speed doesn't cause 100% of all accidents like they seem to believe.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that if no-one breaks the speed limit, they won't get a cent.

Also, they have never claimed that speed causes 100% of all accidents.

kona

Valetta wrote: »

You seem to be ignoring the fact that if no-one breaks the speed limit, they won't get a cent.

Also, they have never claimed that speed causes 100% of all accidents.

Do they ever have vans to detect simpleton driving? Or European clampdowns on it?

Money is irrelevant if it's all about safety.

Valetta

kona wrote: »

Do they ever have vans to detect simpleton driving? Or European clampdowns on it?

Money is irrelevant if it's all about safety.

Not sure if that's a sly dig??

Guards stop and caution drivers for numerous driving offences every day of the week without fining them.

ardmacha

This is windows dressing. What Europe needs to do is have a uniform legal situation so that people who travel around can be given points etc everywhere and where police forces can easily check the insurance status or vehicles from any European country.

Valetta

ardmacha wrote: »

This is windows dressing. What Europe needs to do is have a uniform legal situation so that people who travel around can be given points etc everywhere and where police forces can easily check the insurance status or vehicles from any European country.

Agree 100%.

The number of people driving around on foreign licenses breaking all sorts of laws, knowing they can't get points is ridiculous.

carzony

Seen a few traffic guards about my local area this afternoon which is rare enough...

kona

Valetta wrote: »

Not sure if that's a sly dig??

Guards stop and caution drivers for numerous driving offences every day of the week without fining them.

Do dig at all, just saying that now it's 3 points for speeding you could be halfway to losing your license if you went up and down the same road and missed the van. 60 in a 50 is hardly "speeding" but you could do this and be stung.

Points should be inplay for people taking the piss , not a few k over a already stupid speed limit.

Hachiko

Very poor drivers in Ireland, a combination of very bad rural roads + crap drivers lead to accidents. It never ceases to amaze me with the carry on. By and large most of the people are fine but a very large number of people are brutal and cause problems, for everyone else.

Since I have been in the UK I have noticed the standard of driving is considerable better, the roads are far more complicated and you need to be on the ball here all the time. You still get the usual sunday drivers but its not as bad as Ireland.

carzony

400 drivers caught speeding apparently..

Valetta

carzony wrote: »

400 drivers caught speeding apparently..

400 fools easily separated from their money.

kona

98,650 cars checked. 659 caught speeding.

Says it all really , time to focus on something else.

blastman

Valetta wrote: »

Agree 100%.

The number of people driving around on foreign licenses breaking all sorts of laws, knowing they can't get points is ridiculous.

What is that number?

Alias G

kona wrote: »

60 in a 50 is hardly "speeding" but you could do this and be stung.

.

what exactly us your definition of speeding then.

Frigga_92

Valetta wrote: »

Also, they have never claimed that speed causes 100% of all accidents.

Well actually, the various authorities consistently couple "x amount of people died on our roads last week/last month/last year" with some design of "slow down" campaign.
For example, "196 people tragically lost their lives on Irish roads last year. To date 47 people have died, and although that is 5 fewer than this date last year, it is still 47 too many,” Chief Superintendent Aidan Reid said". (Taken from http://www.thejournal.ie/checkpoints-garda-marathon-2050524-Apr2015/)
Using those statistics in respect of this "slow down" campaign without any breakdown of what was the cause in each case is an attempt to make a link between speed and all road deaths.
A more truthful statement would be "x people lost their lives on the road last year and x% was as a result of speeding". Although, x% would possibly be a lot lower than the figures they try to convince the public of.

kona

Alias G wrote: »

what exactly us your definition of speeding then.

100 in a 60. 150 in a 120 that's speeding.

I know what your reply is going to be so you don't have to bother.

Alias G

kona wrote: »

100 in a 60. 150 in a 120 that's speeding.

I know what your reply is going to be so you don't have to bother.

Well at least you are aware that's your head is up your backside since you don't want me to reply.

ironclaw

Didn't concern us too much

kona

Alias G wrote: »

Well at least you are aware that's your head is up your backside since you don't want me to reply.

Calm down kid

Alias G

Perfectly calm

kona

Alias G wrote: »

Perfectly calm

Now accept that it's my opinion that giving somebody 3 points for 60 in a 50 is very unfair. That's a quater the way to bye bye license.
And that constantly relating speeding to every accident is stupid.

jimgoose

Bleh. Lot simpler in the old days, when they couldn't even see a FireBlade or ZZR as it passed, just hear a quick, indistinct sort of WHOOOMMM!!

wonski

kona wrote: »

100 in a 60. 150 in a 120 that's speeding.

I know what your reply is going to be so you don't have to bother.

100 in a 60 is way more dangerous than 150 on a motorway imo.

There are some limits that are too stupid to follow, especially the 80 km/h on roards that should be limited to 30 km/h. There are no speed checks on those, fortunately.

kona

wonski wrote: »

100 in a 60 is way more dangerous than 150 on a motorway imo.

There are some limits that are too stupid to follow, especially the 80 km/h on roards that should be limited to 30 km/h. There are no speed checks on those, fortunately.

Course and you should get your points!

100 on the m50 is another joke.

Anything 30 kmph is a joke tho.

Alias G

kona wrote: »

Now accept that it's my opinion that giving somebody 3 points for 60 in a 50 is very unfair. That's a quater the way to bye bye license.
And that constantly relating speeding to every accident is stupid.

It may be your opinion but it is entirely wrong in my opinion. I have been hit for points in a 50 zone myself and have no problem accepting that's the points were completely justified. I was travelling at 63kph. Not saying every speed limit in the country is correctly designated but 50 zones will typically be urban and be used by loads of vulnerable road users. Points work because drivers moderate their behaviour if they have been issued them.

PaulPriest

Hachiko wrote: »

Very poor drivers in Ireland, a combination of very bad rural roads + crap drivers lead to accidents. It never ceases to amaze me with the carry on. By and large most of the people are fine but a very large number of people are brutal and cause problems, for everyone else.

Since I have been in the UK I have noticed the standard of driving is considerable better, the roads are far more complicated and you need to be on the ball here all the time. You still get the usual sunday drivers but its not as bad as Ireland.

Having moved to Ireland from the UK (Essex at that - where you drive 10mph faster the nomwnt you enter the county) and regularly travelling back - I'd concur.

The bodywork on cars in this country is much worse - either there's way more scrapes, people don't get them fixed, or both. having some kind soul take out a couple of panels and an alloy in a church carpark, I've just left it, since I know they'll be another one before too long.

Indicating and lanes also seem to be a whole lot more optional to get right. The weird thing is the road markings and signage are generally better, and I find the differences an improvement (flashing orange traffic lights). The roads are also maintained better (or less wear) than the uk, although there's a lot more concrete than tarmac in places.

Also doesn't help that people treat the driving test and NCT (MOT in the UK) a lot less seriously.

Pure observations which I find interesting.

dr.fuzzenstein

The usual "think of the children" crap and window dressing.
Pulling out without looking or indicating, changing lanes without looking or indicating, dawdling along at 60 km/h and casually trying to run overtakers off the road, all fine, but 5 km/h over the speed limit "GET THAT BASTARD, CALL SWAT AND THE AIRFORCE, GO! GO! GO!".
Well, I guess it's easier than actually teaching people how to drive.
The aim is to have a blanket 40 km/h speed limit in the entire country, abandon all driver training programs, cover every inch of the road with speed cameras and fit sparklers to the top of the aerial of every car, because it will be Muppets bumper cars out there. If they really want to cut road deaths to zero, that's what they have to do.

ironclaw

@dr.fuzzenstein, agreed. Its Driver education thats needed and harsher penalties. Driving in the middle lane, turning with no indication and careless driving should all carry massive points and fines. And a firm education at the roadside and if a secondary offence, a driver ed course.

With some many cars on the road its inevitable that a collision will occur, we just have to educate people into how to avoid them (Following the rules) and what do in the split seconds before something occurs (Driving perception and anticipation)

Cantona's Collars

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The usual "think of the children" crap and window dressing.
Pulling out without looking or indicating, changing lanes without looking or indicating, dawdling along at 60 km/h and casually trying to run overtakers off the road, all fine, but 5 km/h over the speed limit "GET THAT BASTARD, CALL SWAT AND THE AIRFORCE, GO! GO! GO!".
Well, I guess it's easier than actually teaching people how to drive.
The aim is to have a blanket 40 km/h speed limit in the entire country, abandon all driver training programs, cover every inch of the road with speed cameras and fit sparklers to the top of the aerial of every car, because it will be Muppets bumper cars out there. If they really want to cut road deaths to zero, that's what they have to do.

+1

My missus came home very shaken yesterday evening,she's pregnant and had 2 kids in the back aswell.Some clown was behind a van that was approaching her,said clown decided to swerve across the road at speed to take a right turn despite being blind to any traffic approaching from the other direction.He didn't even see my wife who ended up on the opposite footpath inches from a wall as she swerved to avoid him.

It's constant sh1te like this that causes accidents yet I despair when I see a go safe van parked near where a speed limit drops from 60kph to 50kph.

Jesus.

ardmacha wrote: »

This is windows dressing. What Europe needs to do is have a uniform legal situation so that people who travel around can be given points etc everywhere and where police forces can easily check the insurance status or vehicles from any European country.

That's right Mr Turkey, go ahead & vote for Christmas

dr.fuzzenstein

zerks wrote: »

+1

My missus came home very shaken yesterday evening,she's pregnant and had 2 kids in the back aswell.Some clown was behind a van that was approaching her,said clown decided to swerve across the road at speed to take a right turn despite being blind to any traffic approaching from the other direction.He didn't even see my wife who ended up on the opposite footpath inches from a wall as she swerved to avoid him.

It's constant sh1te like this that causes accidents yet I despair when I see a go safe van parked near where a speed limit drops from 60kph to 50kph.

Totally agree. While I accept speed vans as part of daily motoring (it's not like they're hard to see), it pisses me off that you could otherwise do just about anything and do it in front of the cops and they won't even blink. Had there been the Garda Traffic corps sitting behind you wife, chances are they would have just merrily carried on and done nothing.

hfallada

It would be great if the Gardai, showed pedestrians how to cross the road. Cycling on O Connell St, Dublin is horrific. The amount of Old women who can barely walk deciding they arent going to wait for the green man at the spire and walk out in front a car or bike. Nearly every time cycle into town, I nearly hit an OAP as they cross the road, where ever they like and whenever they like.

visual

Don't have the statistics to hand but it was driver error that caused 90% of accidents and only a tiny % could be contributed to speed or mechanic fault.

Yet all the focus is on speed where theres ready revenue stream.

There is crashes most if not everyday on M50 mostly during rush hour and all below the speed limit.

ironclaw

visual wrote: »

Don't have the statistics to hand but it was driver error that caused 90% of accidents and only a tiny % could be contributed to speed or mechanic fault.

Yet all the focus is on speed where theres ready revenue stream.

There is crashes most if not everyday on M50 mostly during rush hour and all below the speed limit.

RSA Fact Book 2011, 11% of fatal accidents are caused by 'Excessive speed' The major contributor is 'Wrong Side of the Road' and 'Other Action'

Not negating the fact that speed increases the chance of fatality, but simply speeding alone will not cause a crash.

dr.fuzzenstein

ironclaw wrote: »

RSA Fact Book 2011, 11% of fatal accidents are caused by 'Excessive speed' The major contributor is 'Wrong Side of the Road' and 'Other Action'

Not negating the fact that speed increases the chance of fatality, but simply speeding alone will not cause a crash.

Which is why "Speed Kills!" is an idiotic and useless slogan.
What really is funny is that wrong side of the road is completely ignored as a factor. How does that come about? It must be mainly overtaking. Who would one be overtaking? Mainly slowpokes driving along at 60 km/h. Why are they driving so slow? Because in their minds they equate slow=safe.
In fact one could argue that too slow creates new problems, i.e. more drivers overtaking=more head on crashes.
The slogan really should be Slow Driving Kills!

jimgoose

Jesus. wrote: »

That's right Mr Turkey, go ahead & vote for Christmas

Strictly speaking, that would be more like turkeys voting for a major overhaul of current turkey-farming facilities.

jimgoose

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Which is why "Speed Kills!" is an idiotic and useless slogan.
What really is funny is that wrong side of the road is completely ignored as a factor. How does that come about? It must be mainly overtaking. Who would one be overtaking? Mainly slowpokes driving along at 60 km/h. Why are they driving so slow? Because in their minds they equate slow=safe.
In fact one could argue that too slow creates new problems, i.e. more drivers overtaking=more head on crashes.
The slogan really should be Slow Driving Kills!

Lane discipline is certainly part of this wrong-side-of-the-road malarkey. And as for gowls merging at 40mph...

El_Duderino 09

Alias G wrote: »

It may be your opinion but it is entirely wrong in my opinion. I have been hit for points in a 50 zone myself and have no problem accepting that's the points were completely justified. I was travelling at 63kph. Not saying every speed limit in the country is correctly designated but 50 zones will typically be urban and be used by loads of vulnerable road users. Points work because drivers moderate their behaviour if they have been issued them.

Fair play for taking it on the chin. Your point is far from subtle and still far too subtle for some road users.

I wonder if it's an Irish thing or does every country have wollys who think they're rebels for speeding? Really sticking it to the man there lads.

El_Duderino 09

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Which is why "Speed Kills!" is an idiotic and useless slogan.
What really is funny is that wrong side of the road is completely ignored as a factor. How does that come about? It must be mainly overtaking. Who would one be overtaking? Mainly slowpokes driving along at 60 km/h. Why are they driving so slow? Because in their minds they equate slow=safe.
In fact one could argue that too slow creates new problems, i.e. more drivers overtaking=more head on crashes.
The slogan really should be Slow Driving Kills!

You're not wrong. I'd love to see campaigns aimed at all sorts of dangerous behaviours. Speeding is a behaviour they do actually try to stop so I would like more campaigns rather than getting rid of the speeding ones

dr.fuzzenstein

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You're not wrong. I'd love to see campaigns aimed at all sorts of dangerous behaviours. Speeding is a behaviour they do actually try to stop so I would like more campaigns rather than getting rid of the speeding ones

Speeding in itself is not an issue. I could do 140 km/h on the motorway all day and it's not an issue.
In fact I have done 240 km/h for a solid hour in Germany. Not a problem.
So there's an indication that speed in on itself is not an issue.
It's inappropriate speed.
If you do 60 or more past a school where kids are running around, it's dangerous. If you're doing anything close to the speedlimit on some backroads, it's dangerous. If you merge onto the motorway at 60 and drive on it at the same speed, you should have your license taken away.
But a lot of people drive like they're in a bumpercar, but they're thinking "Jaysis, I'm drrivin' shlow, so I'm saaafe!"
It will take decades to eradicate the two most dangerous ideas on Irish roads:
1: Speed kills and nothing else
2: I Am Entitle To Be On The Road!
Usually held by drivers who subscribe to No 1.

I.S.T.

ironclaw wrote: »

RSA Fact Book 2011, 11% of fatal accidents are caused by 'Excessive speed' The major contributor is 'Wrong Side of the Road' and 'Other Action'

Not negating the fact that speed increases the chance of fatality, but simply speeding alone will not cause a crash.

You won't believe this but...

Ireland is safest country to drive in in the EU
Ireland is a very safe country to drive in, in fact Ireland has the lowest death rate in the EU (3.4 deaths per billion vehicle kilometers travelled). Sweden 3.6, Iceland 3.82, GB 3.89, Germany 5.59. Source: Road Safety Authority Road Collision Facts 2012