When is it rape?

Goshen

I'm not speaking legally here. Not sure how I'm speaking to be honest.
When is it 'rape' when you comply out of fear etc. but 'comply'.

Goshen

Goshen wrote: »

I'm not speaking legally here. Not sure how I'm speaking to be honest.
When is it 'rape' when you comply out of fear etc. but 'comply'.

Do you have a specific question? Do you think you might have raped someone?

Surely the only definition that should matter is the legal one, but personally it is when the person doesn't or can't consent.

Riskymove

"Rape" is a legal matter and can only really be defined in a legal way

What I would say generally is that if your consent (to anything) is coerced through force or fear etc. then it isn't really consent.

Goshen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you have a specific question? Do you think you might have raped someone?

Surely the only definition that should matter is the legal one, but personally it is when the person doesn't or can't consent.

Lol no. I'm female. Thanks for your help.

Goshen

Goshen wrote: »

Lol no. I'm female. Thanks for your help.

Are you saying women can't be rapists? Obvious troll is obvious.

Goshen

Riskymove wrote: »

"Rape" is a legal matter and can only really be defined in a legal way

What I would say generally is that if your consent (to anything) is coerced through force or fear etc. then it isn't really consent.

This is what I needed to read. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Goshen

As I said, I will not be pursuing legal action. Pretty difficult to prove anyway. It is basically to try to come to terms with something myself and I need a word to describe it.

tara73

Goshen wrote: »

I'm not speaking legally here. Not sure how I'm speaking to be honest.
When is it 'rape' when you comply out of fear etc. but 'comply'.

do you mean you have sex out of fear for your physical wellbeing and generally don't want to have sex?
if a person is threatening you with the words if you don't have sex with him he's doing 'xyz' to you, you need to make it clear to the person you are not interacting with him/her anymore.
but if it's that bad, you fear for your physical health, you need to get away as quickly as possible and also report it to the guards.

would be good if you could give more infos as it is difficult to figure out what your definite problem is.

Goshen

tara73 wrote: »

do you mean you have sex out of fear for your physical wellbeing and generally don't want to have sex?
if a person is threatening you with the words if you don't have sex with him he's doing 'xyz' to you, you need to make it clear to the person you are not interacting with him/her anymore.
but if it's that bad, you fear for your physical health, you need to get away as quickly as possible and also report it to the guards.

would be good if you could give more infos as it is difficult to figure out what your definite problem is.

I think I have given adequate detail.

Hannibal Smith

Some one putting you in fear is an assault in its self. 'Consenting' out of fear is not consent.

spurious

OP, can you talk to a Rape Crisis Counsellor?
The very fact that you are asking here means you are not happy with what happened. Apart entirely from any legal things, you should speak to someone about how you feel about it.

OP, you should consider contacting your local rape crisis centre.

Goshen

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Some one putting you in fear is an assault in its self. 'Consenting' out of fear is not consent.

I pretty much knew that but could not find words to describe what is happening. Cheers

Hannibal Smith

Goshen wrote: »

I pretty much knew that but could not find words to describe what is happening. Cheers

Can you get out of the situation?

Goshen

spurious wrote: »

OP, can you talk to a Rape Crisis Counsellor?
The very fact that you are asking here means you are not happy with what happened. Apart entirely from any legal things, you should speak to someone about how you feel about it.

Will be something I consider at a later date than today. Thanks though, I would not have considered this.

Goshen

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Can you get out of the situation?

I can and I can't. Out of the frying pan into the fire...

mapaca

Are you safe now? You can phone the rape crisis centre for help or advice on this anytime 1800 77 88 88

beyondbelief67

Goshen wrote: »

Will be something I consider at a later date than today. Thanks though, I would not have considered this.

Sometimes it can still feel a bit raw emotions wise to talk to the rape crisis centre but if you need advice from them you can email them too if you feel to shook up to talk.
And I think the advice you get from there will help you in so many ways, and they will also give you advice you might not of thought of too, preserving clothing etc, if your still in fear you could also contact women's aid or women's refuge.
Most of all stay strong and stay safe.

Goshen

mapaca wrote: »

Are you safe now? You can phone the rape crisis centre for help or advice on this.

Depends on your definition of safe. Generally, if I have sex with him on demand, I am safe and well looked after. Problems manifest when I don't want sex. So mostly I comply.

Goshen

I would like to apologise for suspecting that the OP is a troll and reiterate what everyone else is saying - contact your local rape crisis centre. Sooner rather than later.

Goshen wrote: »

Depends on your definition of safe. Generally, if I have sex with him on demand, I am safe and well looked after. Problems manifest when I don't want sex. So mostly I comply.

Is there anything keeping you in that relationship or anything making you afraid to leave?

Goshen

Yes. Money basically.

Hannibal Smith

Goshen wrote: »

I can and I can't. Out of the frying pan into the fire...

I get you. I dont know whether youre an adult or not. Either way, you can take steps to get out of the situation safely. You dont deserve this and you dont have to let anyone near you if you dont want them to be. You can take steps to stop it.

beyondbelief67

Goshen wrote: »

Yes. Money basically.

If you contact women's aid you don't need any money to be safe they will help you with a place to stay, to be safe and with money, please never think you have to stay in a situation like this because of that.

Goshen

Goshen wrote: »

Yes. Money basically.

I'm not talking about anything more than money to survive. I'm not in Ireland but am Irish. That and the emotional hold he has over me. We have sex. I should be grateful or something. So he thinks

kylith

Jesus, get out of there. No amount of money is worth fearing for your safety.

mapaca

Yes, this situation is all wrong. Manipulation and abuse. You do not have to stay with him. You have taken the first step in posting here. Please contact rape crisis help or women's aid where you are. They can give you practical advice and support for the next step, when you're ready.

beyondbelief67

No matter where you are in the world there will be either a women's aid centre or women's refuge, both will give you advice and a place of safety, please know your not alone and there are people who can help you and who care.

Goshen

I 'choose' to stay with him apparently so his lawyer has advised him. As I said I just need to get words to describe stuff for myself so I can look at it and figure out what is going on

Tigger99

Goshen the very fact that he got advice from his lawyer doesn't mean you have to stay. You only have his word that he even spoke to him, why would he even speak to a lawyer unless he knew he raped you?

To even tell you of this conversation is so manipulative and sinister.

Money can be earned again, please don't worry about leaving a financially secure life (I get the impression that you are worried about how you'll survive financially) you being physically safe is much more important. Do you have family or friends that could help you out with a plane ticket home?

denhaagenite

Goshen wrote: »

Depends on your definition of safe. Generally, if I have sex with him on demand, I am safe and well looked after. Problems manifest when I don't want sex. So mostly I comply.

If you comply because you don't want problems to manifest then it is against your will. This is rape.

Goshen wrote: »

I 'choose' to stay with him apparently so his lawyer has advised him. As I said I just need to get words to describe stuff for myself so I can look at it and figure out what is going on

His lawyer does not know whether or not you have a choice in the matter. Be safe Goshen, get out ASAP.

Neyite

Dont listen to his lawyer. And especially don't listen to what your partner tells you his lawyer said, because its a very good chance that its at best, a stretch of the truth.

Get your own lawyer. Or, if you cant, contact a women's shelter organisation wherever you are, and they can advise you impartially. They also can counsel for rape.

Queen-Mise

1800 778888 is the number for the 24hr Dublin rape crisis centre.

Ring and ask to speak to a counsellor, they have a receptionist who answers first.

Rape is when consent is not given, if consent given out of fear or pressure etc, then it is still rape. Sex needs to be between two consenting and willing people.

Even if you don't decide to go down legal route, at least have a chat with someone professional yourself.

Stavro Mueller

OP do you have children with this man? Are you married to him? Could you tell us roughly where you're living? EU, Middle East. That might help us advise a little better.

mapaca

Goshen wrote: »

I 'choose' to stay with him apparently so his lawyer has advised him. As I said I just need to get words to describe stuff for myself so I can look at it and figure out what is going on

Women's aid or rape crisis services can help you to put words on what you are experiencing and feeling. Have a look at their websites for information too.

I wouldn't pay any heed to what he says his lawyer supposedly said. It just sounds like another controlling tactic to me.

Big Bag of Chips

Goshen, the truth is you do "choose" to stay with him. There are always options. They might not be easy options, but they are options. Staying in the situation you are in is not an easy option, long term. It might be easy in the short term to give in and do whatever it takes to keep the peace. But how long can you keep that up for? I'm guessing you are relatively young? You have many years of marriage ahead of you if you don't get out.

Nobody expects you to leave this evening. But you are not happy and you have recognised a very basic yet very serious flaw in your relationship. You need to start taking steps to have a happier future for yourself. Otherwise you will be back posting many more threads of escalating problems.

There is only so much advice anonymous posters can offer. You have to be the one who takes the steps to change things for yourself. You deserve a life where you are not a "slave" to someone else.

Stavro Mueller

By money what do you mean? Do you have anyone belonging to you here in Ireland who can get enough money to you to get you to an embassy or onto a plane?

Neyite

The truth of it OP, is that the vast, vast majority of men would be horrified if they saw their partner was not a willing participant and it would be an instant buzzkill for them. Most men would stop if their partner was not enjoying it. Most men wouldn't even start if their partner was not in the mood.

Sexual coercion is not indicative of a healthy loving relationship.

Goshen

Neyite wrote: »

The truth of it OP, is that the vast, vast majority of men would be horrified if they saw their partner was not a willing participant and it would be an instant buzzkill for them. Most men would stop if their partner was not enjoying it. Most men wouldn't even start if their partner was not in the mood.

Sexual coercion is not indicative of a healthy loving relationship.

You have no idea

IlmoNT4

OP if you are Irish and living in a foreign country, contact the local Irish embassy, they can help you get out and home if you dont have the money to leave. If he has your passport, call the embassy, they really can get you home.

Reach out to family and friends and dont be afraid to tell them whats happening to you. There is no shame, and they'll do their best to help you. The important thing is that you are out of the situation and safe before it escalates further.

There are womens aid and shelters in most countries. I dont know if you have children but if you are planning on leaving, please go to the police and file a report of whats happened to you. If you fear for your life, then go to the police/safe place today.

I know it is really difficult thing to process what has happened to you, the mind just blanks and doesnt want to call it what it really is...If someone is making you do something that you dont want to do, then its rape, even if you are married to him. If he is threatening you with rape, even if he is your husband, thats emotional abuse.
Be safe OP

Goshen

So. He is raping me. Do I just get away?

strobe

What would happen if you said you didn't want to have sex?

eeeee

Goshen wrote: »

So. He is raping me. Do I just get away?

Yes. Absolutely yes. Contact the embassy there if there is one where you are, a UK one if there if there's no Irish one. There are links in this thread to women's aid. Talk to them. You will need that support when you leave.
reconnect with friends and family too if you can, when he's out, delete messages etc. If he goes through your phone.

Mind yourself.

Goshen

strobe wrote: »

What would happen if you said you didn't want to have sex?

Different scenarios
He beats me up
He goes out,to get another woman
He gets depressed
He verbally abuses me

Goshen

Goshen wrote: »

Different scenarios
He beats me up
He goes out,to get another woman
He gets depressed
He verbally abuses me

Most common one is he gets drunk and I comply

IlmoNT4

OP its quite simple, if you are have been raped or threatened with rape then phone someone for help and get yourself out of that place and away from him.
If you have children, then take them with you.

You have heaps of options to leave

-Call family and ask them to book you a flight home, if you are afraid of your husband, dont tell him anything, just be gone when he comes home from work
-If he has your passport then call the Irish embassy. They will take it from there. They will probably contact the police. They will send someone for you and bring you to a safe place.
-If you have money and a passport, then pack a bag and check into a hotel or go to a friends house. Dont answer your phone, dont tell him where you have gone. Fly home and be with your family.

I know this is very distressing and you may not want to do anything right now today, but know that you have options to leave when you chose to. When you are ready to go, have a plan ready and support in place and then leave.

Stavro Mueller

While I can understand why you don't want to give us any details that would make you identifiable, you're not making it easy for any of us to advise you.

What is it that you want? Do you want to leave this man? What do you need in order to leave? Have you kids? Are you married?

Big Bag of Chips

If you don't/can't leave him, how do you see your life panning out? What do you hope for yourself in say 5 years?

He's not going to suddenly change and decide you are equal to him and worthy of respect. So if that's what your hope is, you need to rethink your hopes.

Goshen

Stavro Mueller wrote: »

While I can understand why you don't want to give us any details that would make you identifiable, you're not making it easy for any of us to advise you.

What is it that you want? Do you want to leave this man? What do you need in order to leave? Have you kids? Are you married?

I asked a question and have received a reply. I asked a question in relation to a moral definition of rape, which I have received.

Stavro Mueller

So is that all you want then? Asking randomers on an Internet message board won't hold any water legally you know. .

Goshen

Stavro Mueller wrote: »

While I can understand why you don't want to give us any details that would make you identifiable, you're not making it easy for any of us to advise you.

What is it that you want? Do you want to leave this man? What do you need in order to leave? Have you kids? Are you married?

Your gruesome search for details is exemplary of why I keep my **** to myself and do not go to police

Neyite

Goshen wrote: »

Neyite wrote: »

The truth of it OP, is that the vast, vast majority of men would be horrified if they saw their partner was not a willing participant and it would be an instant buzzkill for them. Most men would stop if their partner was not enjoying it. Most men wouldn't even start if their partner was not in the mood.

Sexual coercion is not indicative of a healthy loving relationship.

You have no idea

If you believe I have no idea what I'm talking about, then there is really no point in wasting my time trying to advise you any further.

All the best, OP.