New Legislation? Tachographs for Vans?

Dutchology

Going up in the years in a few weeks hopefully, from an 03 Focus to an 05 Focus van.

Have just heard through the rumour mill that there may be new legislation coming in where commercials (not just trucks) will have to be fitted with Tachographs. Is there any truth to this?

dashcamdanny

SO a VW caddy would need a Tacho.


Cant see it happening TBH

Maybe for C1 category vans though.

Silvera

dashcamdanny wrote: »

SO a VW caddy would need a Tacho.


Cant see it happening TBH

Maybe for C1 category vans though.

All commercials over 3500kg currently need Tachographs afaik ...wouldnt apply to Focus, Caddy, etc

'Pub talk' I'd reckon :rolleyes:

Dutchology

Hopefully. Thanks folks

CiniO

This would need to be EU wide legislation and nothing like that coming soon.
But I'm sure it will happen soon.
At the moment lots of employers on the continent are using drivers for slavery work with driving of 20 - 30 hours in a row without sleep.
It might just come cheaper for employer to get few 3500kg transit vans get few lads, and let them do a run from Sweden Spain and back in 2 days, instead of getting one artic truck with one driver who can only do 9 hours driving a day and Sweden to Spain and back would take more than a week.

gavman1

Im afraid you have heard correctly, it maybe a year or so of yet but any commercially taxed vehicle will need to retro fit a tacho.plus the person driving will be required by law to have a digital tacho card and they will also be bound by driving hours legislation.the reason for it (they say)is to cut down on the amount of people falling asleep at the wheel.so if you say drive a truck all week long and then do nixers at the weekend all your driving hours will need to be recorded on your tacho card.alot of peopls dont know this yet but the rsa is going to be privatised in the neer future so ye can bet your bottom doller these new laws will be inforced and the penelties will be huge.

CiniO

gavman1 wrote: »

Im afraid you have heard correctly, it maybe a year or so of yet but any commercially taxed vehicle will need to retro fit a tacho.plus the person driving will be required by law to have a digital tacho card and they will also be bound by driving hours legislation.the reason for it (they say)is to cut down on the amount of people falling asleep at the wheel.so if you say drive a truck all week long and then do nixers at the weekend all your driving hours will need to be recorded on your tacho card.alot of peopls dont know this yet but the rsa is going to be privatised in the neer future so ye can bet your bottom doller these new laws will be inforced and the penelties will be huge.

Any links?

I don't believe such thing could apply only to Ireland.
It's either EU wide or none.

gavman1

CiniO wrote: »

Any links?

I don't believe such thing could apply only to Ireland.
It's either EU wide or none.

Im not all together surs it would have to be an eu wide thing, after all we set our own speed limits, drink drive levels etc.as for a link I dont have one but anyone doing the latest cpc modules will be hearing about changes coming down the line.liks I said it may be a while of yet.

dashcamdanny

How does one retro fit a tachograph into a Corsa van or an old caddy?
I will eat my hat if it happens.

gavman1

dashcamdanny wrote: »

How does one retro fit a tachograph into a Corsa van or an old caddy?
I will eat my hat if it happens.

When is a commercial vehicle not a commercial vehicle? Im just telling ye what they are planning.doesnt mean they have thought it through.this is ireland after all.

Dord

dashcamdanny wrote: »

How does one retro fit a tachograph into a Corsa van or an old caddy?
I will eat my hat if it happens.

The new ones were retrofit to buses and coaches that had the old paper format. They're about the size of a radio.

gctest50

dashcamdanny wrote: »

How does one retro fit a tachograph into a Corsa van or an old caddy?
I will eat my hat if it happens.

want a bit salt with that :P

vauxhall corsa kit :

http://www.tachosupplies.co.uk/product/vauxhall-corsa-van-tachograph-kit


merc sprinter :

http://www.tachosupplies.co.uk/mercedes-benz-sprinter-vdo-1381-2-0-dtco-tachograph-head


citroen relay :

http://www.tachosupplies.co.uk/citroen-relay-vdo-digital-tachograph-kit-fwd-2006-vdo

Cant see this happening, totally impractical for an awful lot of small commercial and 4x4 users.

Fozzie Bear

gavman1 wrote: »

alot of peopls dont know this yet but the rsa is going to be privatised in the neer future so ye can bet your bottom doller these new laws will be inforced and the penelties will be huge.

Ya, I was doing my CPC module at the weekend and our teacher was saying this too. The RSA will eventually be fully modelled on VOSA in the UK. They are fully self financing and have the power to stop trucks without Police assistance. At the moment the RSA still need a Garda out on the road to stop & direct the trucks into the RSA inspector. They are also still Government funded but this will be gradually withdrawn to the point where the RSA will have to go out and make money to fund themselves.

The teacher was also saying that from around 2018 on all Tachographs will have Bluetooth. This means a Garda/RSA vehicle only has to pass by or follow the truck/bus to read the Tacho. No need to stop them unless something comes up from the reading or from a reg plate reading. Hauliers will be giving a traffic light classification based on the condition of their vehicles and mantainance records. Red, yellow, green. If the reg plate brings up a Red light they pull it over and make some money!

gctest50

Agustin Brave Programmer wrote: »

Cant see this happening, totally impractical for an awful lot of small commercial and 4x4 users.

they'll just come up with something like this :

Get automated reports covering mileage, trips, time spent on location and driving behaviour......

http://business.tomtom.com/en_ie/products/link/410/highlights/

with a slot for a "driver card"

if truck drivers have to put up with it - the rest of the commercials can too


.

challengemaster

Makes sense, it'll stop people using commercials as private vehicles too

bigroad

There is no way the farmers will stand for any of this .

dashcamdanny

gctest50 wrote: »

they'll just come up with something like this :



with a slot for a "driver card"

if truck drivers have to put up with it - the rest of the commercials can too


.

immm I dunno.

So a carpenter commuting to work each day in his small transit connect should have to put up with that.
Is he not entitled to commute to work just like you? His van is probably smaller than your car.

The whole idea is absurd .

Maybe vans over 3.5 tonne.

Uncle Ben

bigroad wrote: »

There is no way the farmers will stand for any of this .

Your possibly right. The EU wanted a sort of NCT / DOE for agricultural plant late last year if I remember correctly. Our govt got a derogation until 2020 I think. I can see the same thing happening again. Tachographs for all and sundry but does not apply to farmers.

CiniO

dashcamdanny wrote: »

immm I dunno.

So a carpenter commuting to work each day in his small transit connect should have to put up with that.
Is he not entitled to commute to work just like you? His van is probably smaller than you car.

But tachograph doesn't stop anyone to commute to work normally like you.
It just sets a limits on time driving allowed.

The whole idea is absurd .



Maybe vans over 3.5 tonne.

This applies already IMO.

Supergurrier

Load of balls tbh

Infracted

So why not make them mandatory for all cars and drivers? Soon itll be illegal to take a drink of water while driving.

mossy50

another money racket the RSA are a shower of arse holes

Grimreaper666

Infracted wrote: »

So why not make them mandatory for all cars and drivers? Soon itll be illegal to take a drink of water while driving.

It already is................

CiniO

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

It already is................

It's not.
It's illegal for bus or taxi driver to drink or eat when carrying passengers in the bus or taxi.
But in no other case it's illegal.

Grimreaper666

You're not supposed to eat or drink while driving and also using a radio or any other controls are to be outlawed soon too.

challengemaster

CiniO wrote: »

It's not.
It's illegal for bus or taxi driver to drink or eat when carrying passengers in the bus or taxi.
But in no other case it's illegal.

If you're spotted by a Garda, you'll be done for driving without due care and attention.

Going Forward

Dutchology wrote: »

Going up in the years in a few weeks hopefully, from an 03 Focus to an 05 Focus van.

Have just heard through the rumour mill that there may be new legislation coming in where commercials (not just trucks) will have to be fitted with Tachographs. Is there any truth to this?

I heard the same thing.

From 2009:

http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2009/4/2/van-fleets-facing-their-biggest-ever-upheaval/30288/

Going Forward

gavman1 wrote: »

When is a commercial vehicle not a commercial vehicle? Im just telling ye what they are planning.doesnt mean they have thought it through.this is ireland after all.

In fairness, we usually embrace any such legislation with open arms if at all possible.

It keeps the RSA busy and earning.

jimbis

If anything it should be put into taxis before its done with say a carpenter or farmer! They do colossal hours behind the wheel.

challengemaster

challengemaster wrote: »

Makes sense, it'll stop people using commercials as private vehicles too

I doubt that. Private vehicles would be on the road a lot less than commercials (in general).


Either way, I think it's a bit silly. Is the idea really to prevent Man With A Van from falling asleep at the wheel? How often do we have that issue?

Besides, as someone who has done a bit of 'van work', for lengthy drives there's almost always two people in the van, or more, who take turns.

This wouldn't make any sense at all. But it would probably make a few Euro, so I'm sure it'll come in.

challengemaster

Deleted User wrote: »

I doubt that. Private vehicles would be on the road a lot less than commercials (in general).

Yes, but a tachograph shows when the vehicle has been moving. So it would be very easy for someone to figure out when it's not being used for commercial purposes.

Going Forward

challengemaster wrote: »

Yes, but a tachograph shows when the vehicle has been moving. So it would be very easy for someone to figure out when it's not being used for commercial purposes.

I wonder would Revenue also have an interest in the working hours of these vehicles at some time in the future.

challengemaster

challengemaster wrote: »

Yes, but a tachograph shows when the vehicle has been moving. So it would be very easy for someone to figure out when it's not being used for commercial purposes.

Ah, I can think of very few jobs where you wouldn't have a couple of 'call outs' at obscure hours/in the evening time.

I think that there'll be less and less of the private/commercial line blurring in the future though as pre-08 cars slowly start becoming less common. So if the idea is to hit people doing that, then it's probably a tad too late.


(that said, I'm not actually sure what the private post-08 tax is on things like Landcruisers and Pathfinders, so maybe it's still in people's interest to get a commercial to save on cash? )

emigrate2012

CiniO wrote: »

But tachograph doesn't stop anyone to commute to work normally like you.
It just sets a limits on time driving allowed.



This applies already IMO.

But said carpenter is using the van in his downtime(ie after work,before work/ school run) his only transport...that's simply unworkable.

As for cracking down on people who drive commercials as a private vehicle? What's wrong with that?

I'd prefer to drive one myself ( including the fact doe once a year{135 a year} and slightly higher insurance because it's a commercial.
-
Vans are built work,they ultra reliable driven as private vehicles(no regular heavy loads etc)

I don't think that's the issue.

The issue is driver hours,I know a gaggle of people who drive vans for a living(deliberate,chippy,sparks etc)
That would never work especially for the delivery guys self employment or no,all lot depend on hours to make ends meet.

Also taxi drivers.......

Special Circumstances

emigrate2012 wrote: »

But said carpenter is using the van in his downtime(ie after work,before work/ school run) his only transport...that's simply unworkable.

As for cracking down on people who drive commercials as a private vehicle? What's wrong with that?

I'd prefer to drive one myself ( including the fact doe once a year{135 a year} and slightly higher insurance because it's a commercial.
-
Vans are built work,they ultra reliable driven as private vehicles(no regular heavy loads etc)

I don't think that's the issue.

The issue is driver hours,I know a gaggle of people who drive vans for a living(deliberate,chippy,sparks etc)
That would never work especially for the delivery guys self employment or no,all lot depend on hours to make ends meet.

Also taxi drivers.......

I love everything about this post.

Can't work because terrible unfair on people using commercials for non commercial uses.

Ah shur we couldn't be paying all the taxes of private. Even if reliability was the motivation for private use and we could in fact buy and tax it privately.

Never work because there's too many people doing too many hours to use a tacho.

Special Circumstances

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I love everything about this post.

Can't work because terrible unfair on people using commercials for non commercial uses.

Ah shur we couldn't be paying all the taxes of private. Even if reliability was the motivation for private use and we could in fact buy and tax it privately.

Never work because there's too many people doing too many hours to use a tacho.

In fairness, I'd imagine a lot more tradesmen (for example) would own both a private and commercial if it was possible to do so without incurring the hefty penalty of having two insurance policies.


Obviously there are people out there buying commercials to use privately, but there are also genuine cases too, of people using their commercials in their down time because there's not really any feasible option (unless they're a named driver on a partner's car, etc. but often that's not workable, I'd imagine).

I'm in the position at the moment of wanting a van (commercial) but also wanting to keep my car (private). Two insurance policies will be a pain in the hole, cos I can only, as far as I know, have a NCB on one of those policies (so although I've got experience driving a private vehicle, the same insurance company consider me a significantly larger threat when I sit into a van, for some reason).

edburg

emigrate2012 wrote: »

But said carpenter is using the van in his downtime(ie after work,before work/ school run) his only transport...that's simply unworkable.

As for cracking down on people who drive commercials as a private vehicle? What's wrong with that?

I'd prefer to drive one myself ( including the fact doe once a year{135 a year} and slightly higher insurance because it's a commercial.
-
Vans are built work,they ultra reliable driven as private vehicles(no regular heavy loads etc)

I don't think that's the issue.

The issue is driver hours,I know a gaggle of people who drive vans for a living(deliberate,chippy,sparks etc)
That would never work especially for the delivery guys self employment or no,all lot depend on hours to make ends meet.

Also taxi drivers.......

How many carpenters/electricians drive 9 hours a day??

Vast majority of them make the commute as part of there day so first hour of day is getting to job, van parked tacho switched to other work for couple hours go get lunch, tacho on break, work couple hours, drive home, tacho on break.

I don't think a tacho going to effect them so muc, even your couriers have 2 drivers all day now as standard.

I have seen tacho's in vans in a number of countries, so I doubt it just Ireland.

JBokeh

Hows this going to work for the postman or anyone else making deliveries? They're hard pushed enough to make all the deliveries with the time they do have, never mind if they'd to be stopping for breaks

It makes absolutely no sense to introduce this for small vans, car vans and 4x4 and will be a pain for people who use their van as their main car as well as for work as they could easily go over the hours travelling places at weekends or in the evenings etc.

My opinion is this hasn't a hope of being introduced its just a bit of talk and nothing more.

jca

CiniO wrote: »

It's not.
It's illegal for bus or taxi driver to drink or eat when carrying passengers in the bus or taxi.
But in no other case it's illegal.

Is it? That's ridiculous. It would be some picky copper who'd do a driver for drinking a drop of water.

dashcamdanny

Could the same argument not be pinned on many company cars as well.

Most sales reps in their Astras clock up more milage that bob the builder in his Hiace.

TrailerBob

When this law is introduced I shall be sending out invitations to a public hat eating to take place in the town square...

The tax system for commercial vehicles is already unenforceable... Add a a hundred thousand extra tachographs to the mix and sure it would do a great job distracting Gardai from the pressing road safety issues.


Won't happen

gavman1

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Could the same argument not be pinned on many company cars as well.

Most sales reps in their Astras clock up more milage that bob the builder in his Hiace.

Ah well ye see here comes the grey area around this kind of legislation.ye see, it says in the driving hours legislation that driving must be the primary role.now are they thinking of changing this or are they going to set clearer guide lines.you couldnt say that a sparks driving to a site for a days work is primarily driving for his days work.having said that, if he aint breaking the law then he has nothing to hide.

gavman1

TrailerBob wrote: »

When this law is introduced I shall be sending out invitations to a public hat eating to take place in the town square...

The tax system for commercial vehicles is already unenforceable... Add a a hundred thousand extra tachographs to the mix and sure it would do a great job distracting Gardai from the pressing road safety issues.


Won't happen

Its not going to be the gardai inforcing this, it will be the rsa in a different guize.they said that having to pay back tax on a car that hasnt been used in years would never happen and we all know were that ended up.its easily inforcable and very profitable.

R.O.R

If this does come in to force, who's going to pay for these Tachographs to be fitted, and who's going to compensate for the loss of productive time?

It's not going to be feasible to retro fit Tacho's to all commercial vehicles. All new commercial vehicles from xx day of xx month of xx year would work, but taking all commercials off the road to have a Tacho fitted would be a logistical nightmare.

Uncle Ben

I don't see the taxi regulator paying for meters. If this comes to pass I'd say the registered owner of the vehicle will be hit.. If this comes to pass.

guil

gavman1 wrote: »

Ah well ye see here comes the grey area around this kind of legislation.ye see, it says in the driving hours legislation that driving must be the primary role.now are they thinking of changing this or are they going to set clearer guide lines.you couldnt say that a sparks driving to a site for a days work is primarily driving for his days work.having said that, if he aint breaking the law then he has nothing to hide.

That's the law already, someone with a small commercial used to transport tools or materials to their work is exempt from using a tachograph even if they have a little 7.5 ton truck.

gavman1

guil wrote: »

That's the law already, someone with a small commercial used to transport tools or materials to their work is exempt from using a tachograph even if they have a little 7.5 ton truck.

Yes but what they are proposing is that any vehicle thats on commercial tax will need a tacho.its a cash grab make no mistake.

guil

Regardless if they do or don't, those drivers will still be exempt.

Infracted

challengemaster wrote: »

If you're spotted by a Garda, you'll be done for driving without due care and attention.

Really? You actually think this? A mandatory court appearance for taking a drink of water. You really are stretching your law credentials if anything. You gave me a good chuckle if anything because I know you made it up.