Girlfriend is going the Catholic route(no sex before marriage etc).Now i'm torn

LegacyUser

So just when life is going well and you have a wonderful relationship with someone you're big into, she goes and drops somewhat of a bombshell. So a week or two ago my girlfriend of about 8 months delivered the news that lets be honest, no guy ever wants to hear. "I no longer want to have sex with you".

Ok so it wasn't delivered in such a way, but long story short, she wants to practice Catholicism to a fuller extent and as such that means a lot of changes.

If honest, she very much is the 'marrying' kind of girl. What I mean is, she ticks every box. She is smart, ambitious, funny, approachable, kind, outgoing, and drop dead gorgeous. We just click. We have a lot of similar interests and have pushed each other to achieve different things in a short space of time.

I knew early on that religion was a relatively big aspect of her life, or at least her families (mothers) life. This I had no problem with, and we have had a sexual relationship for several months now. I'd be what some might call a passive or convenient Catholic. Baptised, went to church during my childhood, got less pushed through my teens, and even less pushed in my 20s. I just haven't really given too much thought to my faith if honest.

Seeing as we're still not seeing each other too long, I certainly wouldn't have been entertaining the idea of marriage for a few years. I'm in my early 30s, and she's in her mid twenties.

She also mentioned that she would not live with someone until married. This again goes against my gut feel that I'd want to live with someone for a certain length of time before even proposing to them. I'd be a believer that you only truely get to know someone once you live with them. I guess I have developed this from past experiences.

I'd also be a believer that sex has a pretty big part to play in a relationship. Turning off that switch for a few years is something I'd find tough to go through.

So essentially I have a big dilemma. She appreciates the position this has put me in seeing as this was not how we set out at the start, and knows that it may jeopardize us, but I respect her own beliefs and feel she should go down that path if she so wishes. I just really don't know how to go about this one right now. She doesn't expect a decision overnight, but at the same time doesn't want it dragged out.

CaraMay

And what happens after marriage? Catholics are only supposed to have sex in order to procreate. Are you happy with having sex 3/4/5 times for the rest of your life?

This sounds v bizarre. She has hooked you in for 8 months and now that she thinks you won't leave she has landed this on you. It makes no sense as she has already had sex with you.

Go with your gut here op but I don't see a satisfactory ending here for you

Oryx

You have some pretty fundamental differences between you. In order to reconcile them one or both of you would need to adapt your attitudes radically. Is that really going to happen? Tbh it doesnt look good.

tara73

this really made my blood boil. how crappy is it to have sex with you for the first 8 month to keep you bonded and committed to now telling you she'll won't do it anymore because of her catholic beliefs.

I respect people who make the decision -no sex before marriage- but only if they stick to their guns, tell their dates about their decision, so that they can make their own decision early on if they want to play along with it, if it's worth for them.

what are her thoughts for the future now? does she want to get married asap to have sex again or did she expects you to go without being intimate for a few years before getting married? absolutely nuts.

OP, surely you need to make your mind up about it yourself, nobody here can tell you what to do. but from my point of view it's hard to accept this and CaraMay makes a good point: what will come next? what if you decide she's so georgous, you marry her very soon (also to have sex again ) and she drops another bombshell: only sex for procreation or some other stuff out of the catholic text book.

paulmclaughlin

If she's willing to make such a big decision about your relationship without discussing it with you first, she's showing very little respect for your opinion.

If I were you, I'd leave.

arayess

CaraMay wrote: »

And what happens after marriage? Catholics are only supposed to have sex in order to procreate. Are you happy with having sex 3/4/5 times for the rest of your life?
u

<mod snip: don't insult other posters please>

once married catholic are supposed to ride like mad although the no contrception thing would mean plenty of kids.

My advice is that given you have had sex and assuming you want to stay with her is to play her game - give it a few weeks and she'll be back for more , it's highly unlikely she has had a taste and is giving it up.

but if not - then you've a decsion on your hands, I'd be jumping ship. nobody is worth that.

dee_mc

It sounds like you have very differing outlooks, for example if you were to get to the stage of marriage and having children, she would presumably want to bring them up to have a strong religious faith, something that's at odds with your own beliefs and practice.
Leaving the imaginary children out of the scenario, if I was in your situation, I would respectfully (but very, very quickly) explain to the person that I can't commit to a sex-free relationship, so I'm out.
You don't mention whether or not you love her (just that she's 'the marrying kind' and that she 'ticks a lot of boxes', which I would class as fairly detached terms for someone you're in a relationship with but perhaps I'm reading too much into your way of phrasing things) - if you love her, maybe you could try the sex-free relationship for a time and see how you go. If you don't love her, I'd say cut your losses and find someone else who ticks the more important boxes, like wanting to have sex with you and having a similar belief system to you.

LadyAthame

t sounds like you may have made your decision but are coming to terms with it. Your positions are pretty incompatible. What is her position on birth control after marriage? I would not want to wait until after marriage for a sexual relationship either. I do believe in waiting until you know one another though. Different people have different ideas about sex.

It seems she is asking you compromise completely and she is not prepared to at all. She is putting her faith before you guys, that is her choice but I think Catholicism is a fairly unlivable faith and it's going to go further than no sex. It's not like she is saying I was to be a practicing Buddhist.People have different ideas about sex, some are based on faith or personal preference. Some people need monogamy , some are adventurous and some are not. But it tends to be a huge issue over time. I respect your GF's wishes she sounds like a wonderful person. I am not going to weigh on sexual morality, but more on compatibility, it's a big deal in the bedroom.

Is this going to be fair to either of you?What are her expectations after marriage? Will either of you be truly happy? It seems either you would be or she would not?Can you possibly compromise ? I mean both of you?

I can't think you will be happy long term. These are fundamental lifestyles differences. I wouldn't personally want to wait for marriage for sex.

freshpopcorn

I would really have to think about getting into a relationship who would be very religous.
I'd have to think about the implications it would have on my life and if we had children. What impact would it have on there lives. For example if one of our kids told us when they were they were gay how would my wife react. Would she want them to be happy and be themselves or would she tell them what the bible says.
What I'm saying is you need to have a good long talk about ye and if ye have children. To know where ye both stand on issues.

Tokyo

arayess - please refrain from calling other posters 'liars' - that kind of response is against both the forum charter and the site rules (and personally, I can understand perfectly the valid point that the poster you quoted is trying to make). if you have an issue with a post, report it, though I'd strongly suggest reading the forum charter first before posting again, as responses like that usually earn an infraction or ban.

Regards,
~Mike

orthsquel

hmm... I have to ask: is she really invested in her religion and re-discover or immerse herself in it, or is there any chance that perhaps she is testing your interest in her that you're not just there for the sex but for more than that, or that she is signalling in some way she's not ready for a very serious relationship that could potentially lead to living together ? I'm probably wrong in my thought process but it did occur to me that maybe she is checking what level your interest is in her given it's only 8 months and whether it can last.

Having said that, if you put aside the sex and the what ifs of a possible future with her, there really isn't anything wrong in her looking to develop herself spiritually in her religion. It is her choice. But you have your choices too.... would you have any interest in re-discovering Catholicism yourself, since you haven't really thought about your beliefs in a long while? Or would you prefer to not to go down that route? Is she as equally respectful towards you about being a lapsed Catholic or would she be perhaps encouraging you to develop yourself spiritually?

tbh I think the sex and not living together until married is only part of an issue, I'd be more focused on where religion stands in the relationship and if it will impact on it while she re-discovers it and into the future and what your level of involvement is going to be. I think you should know where you stand, particularly if you have similar views and if those views you thought she had alter as a result and how that effects your relationship and how you feel about her as a person and how well matched or not you could be in values, beliefs and views.

To be really honest, if I was involved in a not yet serious relationship with someone who was about to go on a spiritual journey of discovery, I'd be more inclined to let them walk that path on their own for the journey that is in it for them, and let them make their own conclusions and enjoy the experience, rather than them having to have to think about how it will effect a relationship and the person they care about accepting or rejecting their newly discovered religious and spiritual values, beliefs and views. Even if it just either cements a long held belief more deeply in a way they understand it, provokes them to consider other religions, confirms that they are happy as is, or overturns their entire belief system, values and views to the polar opposite, or they shed all interest in any religion.

DukeOfTheSharp

Regardless of her logic when it comes to this situation, it's still unacceptable. She's moving the goal posts and after eight months together I don't think she fully understands what position she's putting you in. I mean, you two aren't even going out that long and she drops this ridiculousness on you? It shows that she wasn't even willing to discuss this with you before she made the decision, and judging by her background, I think it's more a 'mammy wants me to marry soon' kind of mentality.

Think about it this way: she's already moved the goal posts once, what's going to stop her from doing it again if you did, somewhere down the line, marry her? You can't rely on someone like that to make clear relationship decisions, there'll always be something else she'll want changed - probably due to 'mammy's point-of-view'. I know it sounds harsh, but one doesn't go from a standard sexual relationship for eight months to 'no sex before marriage' overnight, and I think she's more than a little immature to do this, it shows that she isn't really willing to discuss these kinds of things, instead dropping them on you without warning. If anything it's good that she's done it now, you can dodge this particular bullet.

mailforkev

It's break up time unfortunately.

She has just redefined your relationship unilaterally so probably no coming back from that.

LegacyUser

If she was as a religious and catholic as she is now claiming she is, she shouldn't have had sex with you from day 1. She's broken that rule and she can't claim she'll be a pure virgin on her wedding night. It seems very strange that she's come to this conclusion after 8 months, maybe she is getting hassle from her mother but no sex and no living together before marriage would be major no no for me.
If i were you op I'd meet her for a short drive with Andrea Bocelli's 'Time to say goodbye' playing in the background and end it.

LegacyUser

Your head must be in a spin, what a thing to throw at you after 8 months of a normal relationship! I'm an atheist, so if it were me, I just couldn't continue the relationship - but even if you have some degree of belief in Catholicism, there's still loads of things to be concerned about - probably most if not all have been mentioned already, but here's what I'd be worried about:

- how much of this did she communicate to you before now? Or was it just a bolt from the blue?
- how much of this came from her, or are her parents pushing her/influencing her heavily (and would that be the case in all life decisions that she makes?
- she is imposing the terms for the relationship, seemingly with no chance of compromise - is that how your relationship or marriage would be with her? Is it her way or the highway?
- will she want to rush you into marriage?
- could you marry someone without living together? I just couldn't, and by the sound of your OP, you wouldn't be too happy about that either
- what will her stance on contraception be? If she's going full-on catholic, that means either very little sex, or lots of kids - do you want kids?
- if you did have kids, will she be the sole decision maker on getting them baptised, and whether they'll go to a catholic school?
- what is her long term involvement in the church going to be? The no living together & no sex sounds a bit more than mass once a week, it sounds as though she may want to be more involved (I don't know, parish work, prayer meetings, stuff like that - would you be happy with that eating into your time together? I remember someone posting a few months back about how involved in the church her husband had become, to the neglect of his family - I couldn't live with that)
- how compatible are your views/hopes for life outside of religion? She sounds as though she is more of a 'traditional' catholic than anyone I know, more so than my parents and their friends! Does her traditional outlook extend to other areas of life - will she want to work after getting married, are you ok with it if she wanted to be a stay at home mother? Will her current family/the church always come first?
- has she friends of various backgrounds / religious persuasions? - like how open is she to other people believing/doing whatever they want in their lives, or wold that be an issue for her if she has very very strong catholic beliefs (I'm thinking of someone I worked with, who is highly religious, and kinda openly anti-gay people - I couldn't be with someone who had views like that in private, let alone in public!)

All the best in your decision, I feel that she has just upended the relationship and I couldn't live with that alone - even apart from the religious stuff, which I'm afraid is just not something that I could handle. Be careful that your current feelings for her don't cloud your view of what would future would be like with this woman.

LegacyUser

OP here again guys. Appreciate the responses.

Just to clear up.....I guess I'm posting here, not so much for an answer or for some random strangers to tell me what to do......more so posting to get my own thoughts almost on paper and to see just what others think. This would be a difficult thing for me to bring up with someone else I think. I'll possibly bring it up with my parents over the next few days but I'm not sure.

First off, and maybe a little in her defence, but she did hint at this about 5-6 weeks ago. She brought it up in conversation one evening about how she was exploring Catholicism a bit more which I had known for a few months anyway and was fine with it and let her do her own thing. But then she started mentioning the physical side of things.

Just a bit of background. She has an older sister who married without sex before marriage. This sister would be a big role model to her. She also has a younger sister whom I'm pretty sure has never had sexual relations. So yeah, it is a strong family belief by the looks of it.

In her defense, I don't think this is tactical as such. I genuinely believe she has been looking for her path for a while now and seems likely she is running with this. She said that as a teen, with her first boyfriend of a year or two, she actually didn't have sex. But then did in the next relationship as I guess she was just in a few years of exploration/confusion etc etc.

Unfortunately for me it just looks like the timing sucks in that she is coming around full circle now. When she brought this about a few weeks ago, I did suggest that it potentially could be negative for us, because I'd find it very hard to shift my fundamentals overnight. She has been battling with the idea since and has in recent days confirmed this is how she is feeling.

I'll be meeting her over the weekend but I brought up a few different topics with her over lunch today. Apparently, the Catholic Church have revised their views on sex after marriage, and have dropped the 'just for procreation' thing.

She doesn't seem to share the churches views on other sexualities though. She would be of the mindset of each to their own in that regard. A very good friend of hers is gay in fact. She wouldn't be into the 'judging others for their beliefs/orientations', just very much into live by her own code (new as it may be).

I brought up the topic of kids and she seemed pretty adamant that she'd want to bring them up the same way.

I didn't bring up the topic of contraception but certainly will be tomorrow.

She got very upset a few days ago when the subject came up again, and she did say that it isn't fair on me but it's something that she can't really help. Yes, it would have been ideal if she was in this place when we first got together, or if we hadn't met for another year or so, but a part of me can see how someone, particularly when young, can have a shift in beliefs.

The idea of turning off the sex switch is not appealing, and hard work. We went away for a night over Easter weekend and it almost felt like a chore in bed. A kiss and cuddle and then turn our backs on each other. I'm not sure if I can see myself sign up for that. I think that could potentially weigh on weekends away / holidays, and lets face it that's all that would happen until marriage.

The more I write the clearer it's getting. Maybe we just need time apart for her to go on that adventure of hers and if in the future we're both still single and she has seen other ways, it might be on again.

I am crazy about her, and we've mentioned the 'L' word a few times to each other alright. In ways I feel angry about the whole thing but in other ways I see a girl who was just battling her beliefs and now seems to have settled, so it's pretty hard to point that anger at her.

Stavro Mueller

Tabs101 wrote: »

If she was as a religious and catholic as she is now claiming she is, she shouldn't have had sex with you from day 1. She's broken that rule and she can't claim she'll be a pure virgin on her wedding night.

The phrase "there's none so pure as a reformed hoor" springs to mind here. That's the scary bit. If she has embraced Catholicism with this sort of gusto, you can be sure that she's going to refuse to use any artificial forms of contraception. She sounds like she's more dogmatic than your average catholic these days. That'd be fine if you were both on the same page but it doesn't sound like you are.

Even if natural contraception methods have improved over time, the risk of falling pregnant is still a lot higher than most people would be prepared to accept. You'd have your sex life back, yes, but you'd also be a slave to her cycle. Do you want that?

If I were you op I'd meet her for a short drive with Andrea Bocelli's 'Time to say goodbye' playing in the background and end it.

^^

Sorry OP but if she's determined to practice Catholicism to the letter I can't see this ending well. Over time I think you would come to resent it. It'd be better to set her free and let her find another man who holds the same beliefs as her.

stateofflux

I would get the hell out of there asap but remember she will most likely 'all of a sudden' want to have sex with you if/when you do end it

DoYouEvenLift

Is this even debatable? I wouldn't even give her a breakup in person, I'd send her a text

LegacyUser

I posted a little while ago, with a list of things that I'd be worried about if I were you - but I forgot to mention a biggie: do you feel that you'd be pressurised by her/her family to 'convert' to their views?

Well, not really convert as such; but there's a huge leap between WCF (weddings, christenings & funerals, which I gather is your style!) and their views. Obviously I don't know them, but I would strongly suspect that people with such dogmatic views might require you to subscribe to the same ethos. As I said in my last post, I'm an atheist, so that obviously colours my views - but you seem to have the quite usual irish WCF approach to Catholicism, and tbh I'd think that you should run if there's even a hint of pressuring you to hold the same views. Obviously I'd run, screaming(!) - but that's me. Even if you don't feel anything much one way or another about the church, being pressured into changing your views should be an enormous red flag for you.

All the best.

Eeden

Unfortunately it does seem that this can't work, unless you can accept her wishes... but she won't accept yours. She has changed the parameters without asking or referring to you. That does indicate a single-mindedness that won't accept any compromise.

beks101

What sort of relationship do you see yourself having with this woman if you abide by these 'rules'? Holding hands over dinner, dropping her home before bedtime? Going to mass together and talking about how wonderful Jesus is? Marrying within a year out of pure sexual frustration?

Honestly, she is essentially friendzoning you with this bombshell. After eight months of bonding and developing intimacy in no small part I'm sure thanks to a fulfilling sexual relationship, she is basically turning around and saying "I don't give a sh1t about you needs. Here's how it's going to be."

That's the part that would be the dealbreaker for me. There was no discussion about something that is fundamental to any romantic relationship. There's something deceptive, dishonest about it. She lured you in and now she's trapping you into a life you'd never in a million years have chosen for yourself, because by all accounts you love and adore her and already think she's the 'marrying' type.

She's putting her religion before your relationship, and you self-admittedly are not religious. If you bow down to this one, you can expect a life's worth of daft decisions and rules dictating your relationship and later your family life, your kids' lives, your social life, your LIFE.

Stick up for yourself here and call her on her selfish behaviour. Ask her exactly WHAT kind of relationship she is offering you here, after eight months of physical closeness and intimacy? Does she want a play pal? Someone to have on her arm but who's out the door before dark? Someone to spoon perhaps? Ask her if she has considered how that would make you feel.

LegacyUser

I am shocked at the other replies here, particularly the aspersions being cast on this woman who no one here knows personally except OP. If something else physical had happened to her and you were asking should you leave her because she was physically incapable of sex I wonder what reception you would have got, even 8 months in to a relationship. Things change in life, people change, that is life. She`s in her mid twenties which I would consider a time when people do ask big questions about life. There is nothing to indicate that this girl is anything other than genuine. There is also nothing to indicate that this is permanent either. You could openly and honestly say that the element of not having sex is really something you think you `ll have difficulty with. You can question her thinking around it - you are in a monogamous relationship right?.. and in the ten commandments only don`t commit adultery relates to relationships which you are not doing. You can ask about what her thoughts are around contraception in marriage. She sounds perfectly approachable and open to conversation. I know myself, I`m not catholic but, after a difficult labor with our son it was quite a while before sex was on the table and that can be part of a life together, you grow and change as a couple and that builds intimacy and love and understanding too. Sex is a valid and important part of a relationship and I`m not down playing that either. I think its very hard to get objective views around religion, it seems to be a hot button issue for most people obviously.

meeeeh

I don't know op, I am not religious (an atheist) but a lot of people that are very close to me are. It never bothered me because their lifestyle doesn't impact mine. But going to mass is quite a bit less significant than changing the rules on intimacy. I know priests and former priests that are less orthodox on the issue than her. Just as a thought, would she maybe have problems enjoying sex in some way?

Teyla Emmagan

A friend of mine had a sexless relationship in his late thirties. He was feeling a bit religious and met this girl at a Gospel church and they got together. All seemed very happy and normal. Most people had no idea how they met etc. Anyway they broke up for something unrelated and one night out he tells me they had never had sex. I think they were together two years?

So it's not like it can't be done when two people want the same thing OP (though obviously that's not how it is in your case). I was flabbergasted though, literally could not believe my ears. I can't even begin to understand why you would want to be in a relationship like that.

If I were you OP I would run and never look back.

gsi300024v

Is she testing you?
Is she knowing you'll not go along with this so using it to break up with you?
Is she wanting to get married sooner rather than later and this will motivate you?
I suppose for me the believing in a man in the sky would be hard to deal with too. But you'd not be the only couple where one is religious and one is not.
Might be worth talking to her more about this in as non confrontational way as possible. Figure how this decisions of her's came about and why?

gsi300024v

I'd also wonder is it she wants to be more Catholic or just that consciously or subconsciously she wants to or feels pressured into behaving in a similar way to her sister and mother?
Does she care a lot about how her parents and family think about how she lives her life in general? Would she do something they do not agree with because it's her view not theirs?
I'd an ex gf who went the other way, from being no sex before marriage etc and wanted to work for the church to the opposite, wanted a bf, live with them and enjoy healthy sex life.
Would she be informing her parents of this new way of living? To her it must seem more normal maybe to not have sex until after marriage what with her sisters life style choices and possibly her parents too.
Does she spend much time with them?

tinkerbell

You can't just decide after 8 months of "living in sin" :rolleyes: that you want to suddenly practice no sex before marriage. This is not supposed to cause offence (although it prob seems that way) but is she a bit thick? You can't go from having sex to no sex before marriage. It doesn't work like that. It's one or the other. She's already broken the "rules". There isn't an Undo button where she can just pretend she's a virgin again. Seriously, she's some dope. I just find this so bizarre. The sex ship has sailed, it's done. And pretending now to be serious about her religion is a bit hypocritical.

If she wants to be a more involved Catholic, then that's her choice but she can't punish you for it. This whole thing just sounds nuts to be honest. Does she think that saying a decade of the rosary and three Hail Marys will undo the 8 months? So odd...

Think you need to have a very serious talk with her OP. You listed out all her great qualities so don't just dump her without having a serious discussion but if she refuses to even discuss, then walk away. I find it more bizarre that she thinks that it makes sense to decide not to have any more sex before marriage after having sex for the previous 8 months.

Blue Iris

I'm a firm believer in people being true to themselves but this has created a huge dilemma for you. The last sentence of your first post struck a chord with me. She doesn't expect you to decide immediately but she doesn't want the decision to be dragged out. That seems unfair to me. She's already expecting a huge amount from you and then she wants an answer from you fairly quickly.

The happiest relationships are those where there is a fairly even balance of power. She appears to be moving most of the power into her arena even if she is not conscious of this. You have every right to take as long as you need to think this through fully for yourself and she should give you all the space you need to do this.

ViveLaVie

tinkerbell wrote: »

You can't just decide after 8 months of "living in sin" :rolleyes: that you want to suddenly practice no sex before marriage. This is not supposed to cause offence (although it prob seems that way) but is she a bit thick? You can't go from having sex to no sex before marriage. It doesn't work like that. It's one or the other. She's already broken the "rules". There isn't an Undo button where she can just pretend she's a virgin again. Seriously, she's some dope. I just find this so bizarre. The sex ship has sailed, it's done. And pretending now to be serious about her religion is a bit hypocritical.

If she wants to be a more involved Catholic, then that's her choice but she can't punish you for it. This whole thing just sounds nuts to be honest. Does she think that saying a decade of the rosary and three Hail Marys will undo the 8 months? So odd...

Think you need to have a very serious talk with her OP. You listed out all her great qualities so don't just dump her without having a serious discussion but if she refuses to even discuss, then walk away. I find it more bizarre that she thinks that it makes sense to decide not to have any more sex before marriage after having sex for the previous 8 months.

You clearly have a very vague understanding of Catholicism because you're completely wrong. The whole idea of sin and forgiveness is predicated on the concept of recognising your mistakes and resolving not to commit the same sins again. It doesn't matter how many times she had sex before. She can in fact absolve herself of those sins now with confession and move forward without sin.

I am not of the same opinion as the OP's girlfriend but I do think it's important to clarify this. Calling her a dope and thick is just rude and obnoxious tbh particularly when what you're saying isn't even true in Catholic terms.

Larbre34

Your outlook is an important as hers. You need to find someone that does want a sexual co-habiting relationship, she needs to find someone who doesnt.

Tell her that when she tries to guilt you when you break up with her. She is the one that did a 180 in the middle of enjoyable partnership.

tinkerbell

ViveLaVie wrote: »

You clearly have a very vague understanding of Catholicism because you're completely wrong. The whole idea of sin and forgiveness is predicated on the concept of recognising your mistakes and resolving not to commit the same sins again. It doesn't matter how many times she had sex before. She can in fact absolve herself of those sins now with confession and move forward without sin.

I am not of the same opinion as the OP's girlfriend but I do think it's important to clarify this. Calling her a dope and thick is just rude and obnoxious tbh particularly when what you're saying isn't even true in Catholic terms.

This would be true if the OP committed an actual sin. Sex is not a sin and to think it is in this day and age is ridiculous and is insulting to the OP - that the intimacy they clearly enjoyed for 8 months needs to be classed as a sin and "forgiven" and that they should be ashamed of their "behaviour". It's not like going to confession and getting penance for say stealing, for example.

It'd be one thing if the OP's gf had been upfront about this from day 1 but she hasn't. If she had, she could've found a partner with similar views and not "sinned". I've no problem with people wanting to abstain before marriage but to have sex for 8 months and then decide to tell your partner that you now suddenly think it's sinful is rude and obnoxious. She has just made a major decision on their relationship. Practice what you preach.

Or are we in a time warp and we've just been zapped back to 1950s Ireland?

bobbyj946

CaraMay wrote: »

And what happens after marriage? Catholics are only supposed to have sex in order to procreate. Are you happy with having sex 3/4/5 times for the rest of your life?

arayess wrote: »

once married catholic are supposed to ride like mad although the no contrception thing would mean plenty of kids.

There are a few posts like this here and they are complete nonsense. I am not a member/follower of any faith and I strongly disagree with the catholic church on many things around sex/marriage but I must defend them to a point and say that these types of posts display a high amount of immaturity and nativity. First read the humanae vitae to get a better understanding of the churches official position, secondly most take their own view on church beliefs to better suit themselves.

OP I'm in the same position/age with the exception that I knew entering it and our relationship has become somewhat less conservative over the years.

This problem depends very much on the couple so I doubt you'll get great advice from strangers online, all I can say is if you really care for her give this new relationship a shot. If she is perfect for you the long run happiness will out weight this short term difficulty.

When i started in my relationship she was like you descried; sister role models, very very religious, absolutley no sex, i knew she was amazing but i wondered about our future together. Over time with constant very light pressing things got more relaxed. Id always be pushing the boundaries, every so lightly and never got annoyed from rejection. Pretty much the definition of thin edge of the wedge. Now we're engaged and happy.

The only point that I'm trying to draw from my experience, is that even though you don't think it is possible at the moment her views my soften.

Best of luck.

PS good username.

CaraMay

It's really quite a strange turn. As tinkerbell said it's quite obnoxious to consider their intimate moments as sin. So what is her exact thinking about abstaining from now on? I don't see the benefit in it meaning she has lost her virginity already so what is the big deal with continuing to have sex?? I just don't understand her logic.

I suspect her sister and mother are guiding her in this with a view to getting you up the aisle soon.

CaraMay

bobbyj946 wrote: »

I am not a member/follower of any faith .

Then you clearly don't know that up until recently Catholics were told only to have sex to procreate. Given the girls strong stance on this issue, its important for the op to find out if this is her stance and / or if sex is available outside of those times.

bobbyj946 wrote: »

When i started in my relationship she was like you descried; sister role models, very very religious, absolutley no sex, i knew she was amazing but i wondered about our future together. Over time with constant very light pressing things got more relaxed. Id always be pushing the boundaries, every so lightly and never got annoyed from rejection.

There is a lot which is upsetting about these statements. I find it interesting you call my post, based on Catholic doctrine, immature yet you confess to constantly pressing your fiancée to loosen up.

Shrap

So many things that I couldn't tolerate about your gf's sudden turn around OP (despite you saying it's been on the cards to some extent for the last 5 weeks or so).

If she is testing/exploring her own faith, then why ask you to make a decision on your future together? If she has any guts then she'd have finished with you, not put it up to you to become faithful to her faithfulness. So she must be testing you. Is that the kind of relationship you'd like? One where you're basically being experimented on to see how far you can be pushed before you leave or cave in and ask her to marry?

You've talked about future kids and she would want them brought up in the same way. Hmm. About time you did have a think about your religious beliefs then and thinking about yourself as a teen when you were let make your own choices in this regard. Your kids wouldn't be let. They may well turn out as utterly confused as she appears to be. Still interested in kids with her?

I can hear the love in your voice nearly, through your words. So I'm sorry to say that what I would consider most hurtful about this is that you're clearly not the one for her. How anyone could possibly throw something so final and impactful into the works out of choice, for whatever reason (unless psychological or physical problems that they are working on with a view to resolving) if they were actually in love is beyond me.

Like others have said, I'd also have serious problems trusting her take on how your married life would pan out (if you decided to go that route). Who's to say she wouldn't turn around and ban all non-procreative sex in the same fashion as she's just now behaved?

As for this being a test.....well if it is, then it's a sorry example. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't really, as if you leave then she and her family can blame you for not being willing to practice abstinence until marriage, and if you ask her to marry you then you can be looked on as only being after the sex. Great choice she's given you, not.

Sorry for your troubles

bobbyj946

First no insults intended. I will expand my points as it might also help the OP.

CaraMay wrote: »

Then you clearly don't know that up until recently Catholics were told only to have sex to procreate.

The Humanae Vitae was released in 1968. It outlines the churches view on contraception, it forbid artifical contraception but supported responsible family planning through the use of natural family planning. The distinction is that one should always be open to having children. If used correctly modern approaches to NFP have an extremely high success rate, i remember seeing rates higher than some artificial methods. This you can say is a contradiction (which i do) but it is the church's view not mine. If your interested JP2 explicitly addressed this but as it's off topic I'll leave it.

CaraMay wrote: »

I find it interesting you call my post, based on Catholic doctrine, immature yet you confess to constantly pressing your fiancée to loosen up.

I assume the connection you are drawing is to say the approach i took in our relationship was immature because I neglected/disrespected her views by pressing her?

At all times through out our relationship i have fully respected her views, they are part of what makes her who she is

My point to the OP was that everybody's views/beliefs can and generally do change, you can show them another set of views (ie your own), but you need to do it gently, over time and with baby steps. You also need to be willing to shift your own views and meet in the middle.

You don't always know when starting out if you'll be able to meet in the middle but some relationships are at least worth the chance.

The word immature was really intended for the other poster.

CaraMay

bobbyj946 wrote: »

The Humanae Vitae was released in 1968. It outlines the churches view on contraception, it forbid artifical contraception but supported responsible family planning through the use of natural family planning. The distinction is that one should always be open to having children. If used correctly modern approaches to NFP have an extremely high success rate, i remember seeing rates higher than some artificial methods. This you can say is a contradiction (which i do) but it is the church's view not mine.

Understood however when we were being taught religion in the 70's/ 80's and 90's we were certainly advised through our school that sex was for procreation only. OP needs all the different permutations explored and explained.

MagicMarker

She's cracked. Move on.

tinkerbell

bobbyj946 wrote: »

First no insults intended. I will expand my points as it might also help the OP.



The Humanae Vitae was released in 1968. It outlines the churches view on contraception, it forbid artifical contraception but supported responsible family planning through the use of natural family planning. The distinction is that one should always be open to having children. If used correctly modern approaches to NFP have an extremely high success rate, i remember seeing rates higher than some artificial methods. This you can say is a contradiction (which i do) but it is the church's view not mine. If your interested JP2 explicitly addressed this but as it's off topic I'll leave it.

I'm sure the majority of women would rather take family planning advice from their GP, not from the Pope, a man who has never reproduced. You mention "if used correctly, it can be more effective than artificial methods". "Used effectively" is laughable. That's a one way ticket to the delivery suite, that is.

It's a big gamble as in order to know your cycle inside out, you'd need to be tracking everything with exact precision and blips could happen. Not to mention the huge families that were a thing of the pre-80s or so. It's not a coincidence that the norm went from 5-10 kids to 2-3 kids or so after the ban on contraception was lifted in this country.

Anyway, this is slightly off topic I guess although still probably relevant given that if the gf wants to do everything by the book then he's to open himself to the possibility of having 10 kids because I sure as heck wouldn't trust the natural family planning way.

suicide_circus

Marriage is not known for increasing women's sex drive OP. If there's no sex now there probably wont be much once you've tied the knot. And that's another thing, after 8 months, do you want to marry her? Had it even entered your mind prior to the sex embargo? Are you going to rush into marriage or be sporting the bluest balls this side if the Vatican for the next few years?
Listen, your drsire to be a young man who has sex is just as valid as her desire to be a young woman who doesn't have sex.
Ultimately it is her decision and you will have to respect it, just as she will respect your decision to leave if you do.
I know it is counter intuitive to break up with a girl you describe as "drop dead gorgeous" but there are plenty of them out there.
This girl wants to explore her Catholicism while being very a la carte with its doctrines, honestly sounds like she doesn't know what she wants, you can look forward to decades of vague spiritual whims and lots of doing things to keep her sainted mother happy.

seenitall

Hi OP,

In view of your gf's beliefs, I remeber a thread on here from a couple of years ago or so, where the OP was a middle-aged man who only had sex about 6 times with his wife in the past 20 years. They had 6 children; he had "hit the target" every time it had been required.

The man was absolutely miserable, controlled, hen-pecked and trapped in a loveless, sexless marriage.

But hey, at least he has a good practising Catholic for a wife, and is certainly being kept on the straight and narrow himself.

Think very, very carefully what any long-term tie to this lovely, kind, drop dead gorgeous, marrying-type girl will entail and what kind of life of you can look forward to with her.

My own opinion is that life is too short to be a slave to someone else's sky-fairy's rules and regulations, no matter how attractive the person. I value my peace of mind more than anyone else's ideas about what my life should be. And I mean anyone.

But, your life, your choice, OP. And the best of luck with it.

LadyAthame

seenitall wrote: »

The man was absolutely miserable, controlled, hen-pecked and trapped in a loveless, sexless marriage.

But hey, at least he has a good practising Catholic for a wife, and is certainly being kept on the straight and narrow himself.

Why if she is so catholic does she not find someone catholic?

I am not catholic i consider myself pagan. Sexuality to me is not to be ashamed of as long as it involves mutual respect and consent. But to me i want to find someone who while not necessarily the same as me can live happily with my spiritual life.

And you want to live with her before marriage? How is that going to work?

Also i don't want to raise any kids i might have with dogma of religion not even my own. I want them to be free independent thinkers. I don't want them to be indicted into a religion for life as babies. They have a right to choose. I want them exposed to science logic and all religions i wan them to make their own crazy mistakes. Is she going to dictate to them what to think?

Shrap

LadyAthame wrote: »

Why if she is so catholic does she not find someone catholic?

In fairness, I'd say she now thinks she should.





BTW, Paganism got nowt to do with this at all.

LadyAthame

Shrap wrote: »

In fairness, I'd say she now thinks she should.





BTW, Paganism got nowt to do with this at all.

No but what i'm saying is i'm saying i wouldn't try to convert them to a lifestyle based on it. I can't find someone then try and change them in that way. Acceptance is important.I am using an analogy. She is de facto forcing you into celibacy.

Also the TYPE of religion comes come into play she is not asking you to live by the rules of buddhism or heathenism but catholicism and to be honest i don't think they are fair or healthy. They relate to the heart of what is coming between you now.

You go on about her in your first post in glowing terms but if she is to live by these rules that is a big change how is you now CATHOLIC gf going to be different to the woman you have known? It seems she is going to live very differently.

Shrap

LadyAthame wrote: »

No but what i'm saying is i'm saying i wouldn't try to convert them to a lifestyle based on it. .

You wouldn't, but the issue is that the OP's gf would. Hence the problem.

LadyAthame

Shrap wrote: »

You wouldn't, but the issue is that the OP's gf would. Hence the problem.

I agree but the comparison highlights that her request might be considered unreasonable. I don't think most people would make it in this day and age with all the information out in the world most people have not given religion the rule over their lives. She has given it significant rule. You can't reason with faith. It's unusual. She has not alter her interpretation of Catholicism to the 21ist century. Most people do. She is giving huge control of her life to it. Or using it to control him. I don't think most people would do this. We are not living a hundred years ago when such things were usual. It's not normal and the op is living in a world/culture where most people would consider it an unusual request. All his couple friends will be having sex and he will not be.

In this day and age she is being a little odd. I think it's an unfair request.

Shrap

I agree. Which is why I said....

Shrap wrote: »

If she has any guts then she'd have finished with you, not put it up to you to become faithful to her faithfulness.

It's like requiring the OP to be super-religious by proxy. Not a runner, in my book.

LegacyUser

OP here again......

Shrap wrote: »

If she has any guts then she'd have finished with you, not put it up to you to become faithful to her faithfulness.

She must have guts, because she just did the above.

We just had an hour or two long conversation this afternoon. We had to leave the cafe as she was getting upset, the rest of the conversation happened in the car where she left in a ball of tears once she called it.

I started by basically stripping everything away and putting it together in it's simplest form:

- We met 8-9 months ago and have been having a fantastic, fun, healthy, trusting, sexual relationship
- A few weeks ago you mentioned the idea of you going back to 'full Catholic' and I said I couldn't stand in your way but at the same time warned it would probably jeopardize us. At the very least it would change the dynamic greatly
- Last week you told me you were in fact going to go this route
- I told her I'd possibly entertain the idea of it, but would certainly need time as it's a big shift in fundamentals
- You've now taken this definite path, how do you see us progressing without me following you down this path that I would otherwise have no interest in going?

This was the point in which she broke down the most, and then she just said she thinks we have to split. She said that even the fact that I was open to considering going that route goes to show how openminded I am and that I obviously care for her (I told her in most other cases I'd have ran for the hills well before today came).

She said that she can't believe she is saying goodbye to someone she's head over heels in love with, and ticks literally every box for her too. Unfortunately there is the small matter of this newly created box.

This is probably one of the more confusing days of my adult life. When she left the car we were both very visibly upset, and I said out loud to myself "What the fu*k just happened"?

To compound things, she said that one of the things she loved most about me was how happy I was in myself, and how I went about life. This, this of all things, lead her to convince herself that her own path is Catholicism. The very path that takes her away from the guy she loves. I had to joke when she said this "So I'm so a great guy, that I pushed you towards God".

I asked her what did she think would happen to us when she came to the Catholic conclusion. She said she was so afraid of what might happen, she almost blocked it out, and the idealist in her said that things would just be ok and work out. She then said the realist in her hit home once I was explaining everything in words, and she actually resented the fact that she would even consider having me change my core beliefs for her.

She broke down again saying she was so sorry for everything and left.

It's incredible what life throws at you sometimes.

Berserker

CaraMay wrote: »

I don't see the benefit in it meaning she has lost her virginity already so what is the big deal with continuing to have sex?? I just don't understand her logic.

She may have had some Catholic/religious 'light-bulb' style moment which has caused her to re-evaluate her view on sex before marriage. She has decided to change and follow a new path from a certain point in time, in my opinion, so the clock has possibly been reset on her loss of virginity, in a religious context.

CaraMay wrote: »

I suspect her sister and mother are guiding her in this with a view to getting you up the aisle soon.

OK, so you think her sister and mother have forced her to completely change her views on one of the most basic aspects of her relationship to get the lad up the aisle? I disagree and I think it is a personal decision. She could easily tell her mother and/or sister that she has stopped having sex with him and continue on without them knowing.

LegacyUser

I think she is trying to force your hand on the marriage front. She probably thinks this will get you up the aisle quicker!