Juveniles and golf

SevesThreeIron

Jeez, what a frustrating afternoon. Window of opportunity final opens up - kids elsewhere, work finished early, weather decent - and the course is clogged up with juveniles. Even the driving range has been taken over. Got a spot at the end of the driving range and another young lad arrives in beside me, chatting away about some guff to his buddies. Just threw my hat at it and came home. That's it now until next week probably, if lucky. Grrrr.

I was a juvenile myself for years and will get my kids involved as soon as they're old enough. But at a basic level, not being able to use the facilities as a full member, and paying a wad of cash for the privilege, because kids are out in force is wrong to me. I don't know if it happens in other clubs but in our place it's like this all summer.

Dbu

SevesThreeIron wrote: »

Jeez, what a frustrating afternoon. Window of opportunity final opens up - kids elsewhere, work finished early, weather decent - and the course is clogged up with juveniles. Even the driving range has been taken over. Got a spot at the end of the driving range and another young lad arrives in beside me, chatting away about some guff to his buddies. Just threw my hat at it and came home. That's it now until next week probably, if lucky. Grrrr.

I was a juvenile myself for years and will get my kids involved as soon as they're old enough. But at a basic level, not being able to use the facilities as a full member, and paying a wad of cash for the privilege, because kids are out in force is wrong to me. I don't know if it happens in other clubs but in our place it's like this all summer.

I think its great to see kids out playing golf. Its good for your club down the road.
It beats them hanging around shops dossing

SevesThreeIron

I hear you and you're on the money, it is great for the club which is I suppose why they encourage it. Personally, I couldn't care less about the future of the club. I find it a pain in the neck I can't use the facilities I've paid for. I'd happily jump ship if there was a better alternative. I'd say I'm in the minority on this one but there you go.

Wichita Lineman

Most clubs have the opposite problem in that not enough kids are being encouraged or facilitated to play golf for a whole host of reasons. They are the future after all.

kiers47

SevesThreeIron wrote: »

I hear you and you're on the money, it is great for the club which is I suppose why they encourage it. Personally, I couldn't care less about the future of the club. I find it a pain in the neck I can't use the facilities I've paid for. I'd happily jump ship if there was a better alternative. I'd say I'm in the minority on this one but there you go.

If your club had taken the stance you would have liked them to take in the past. It is very likely you would have no option but to be looking for an alternative.

quagmire47

SevesThreeIron wrote: »

Jeez, what a frustrating afternoon. Window of opportunity final opens up - kids elsewhere, work finished early, weather decent - and the course is clogged up with juveniles. Even the driving range has been taken over. Got a spot at the end of the driving range and another young lad arrives in beside me, chatting away about some guff to his buddies. Just threw my hat at it and came home. That's it now until next week probably, if lucky. Grrrr.

I was a juvenile myself for years and will get my kids involved as soon as they're old enough. But at a basic level, not being able to use the facilities as a full member, and paying a wad of cash for the privilege, because kids are out in force is wrong to me. I don't know if it happens in other clubs but in our place it's like this all summer.

One word... Headphones. I can't believe you're actually giving out about this. It's also not the fault of the juveniles that you can only get out once a week. Do me a favour.

SevesThreeIron

Wichita Lineman wrote: »

Most clubs have the opposite problem in that not enough kids are being encouraged or facilitated to play golf for a whole host of reasons. They are the future after all.

There's all kinds of ways to promote junior golf without letting them out on the course at the expense of full members. Stuff like Snag Golf, driving range skills challenges, tuition, kids competitions which there are already plenty of. The future is important but so is the present, i.e. the 1k a year from full members.

SevesThreeIron

quagmire47 wrote: »

One word... Headphones. I can't believe you're actually giving out about this. It's also not the fault of the juveniles that you can only get out once a week. Do me a favour.

Headphones aren't going to help me get onto the course when it's clogged up. Playing once a week isn't the point - the point is that it's regularly like this. I could play five times a week and meet with the same problem.

Don't know why you can't believe what you're reading. It's not that outlandish to be cheesed off that I can't use the service I'm paying for.

Russman

SevesThreeIron wrote: »

There's all kinds of ways to promote junior golf without letting them out on the course at the expense of full members. Stuff like Snag Golf, driving range skills challenges, tuition, kids competitions which there are already plenty of. The future is important but so is the present, i.e. the 1k a year from full members.

That sounds a little bit like "put them somewhere, just not near me" !:)

I can sort of see where you're coming from, but at the same time, surely no member expects to be able to use the club absolutely 100% as and when he pleases ? What if it was a society that were paying for a day out ?

Presumably these juniors are members ? why should they not use the facilities too ? Is it because they pay a reduced fee ? If that's the case I'd assume the membership has decided in its wisdom to set the fees at a particular level and set playing rights at a level they deem appropriate for juniors, no ?

With all due respect, you can't expect a club to "not" run junior stuff just because a member "might" arrive up. Especially when the schools are on their Easter break.

moycullen14

It's an issue during holidays, alright.

On our course, the (assistant) pro, keeps an eye on the kids and generally keeps them out of the way. They usually hang around and play a few holes when it's quiet, stop, and then start again.

Kids are good like that. It's the sort of thing that would drive me mad but they have all the time in the world and don't seem to mind stop/start and hanging around.

As with everything else, a bit of give and take and some subtle management and the problem is solved. Have a word with the captain/president and the pro. and suggest someone minds the kids during the holidays.

Being confrontational 'I've paid me money, the kids are ruining my life and should be shot' won't get you very far. :-)

Russman

SevesThreeIron wrote: »

Personally, I couldn't care less about the future of the club.

I think this might be the issue. Lots of clubs try to do the inclusive thing and most members buy into it. Most golf clubs are not really designed to be like a gym where you simply pay a sub and use the facilities.

What if the range had been full of say, other full members or lady members ie non juniors. ?

slave1

I believe, children are our future...

quagmire47

SevesThreeIron wrote: »

Headphones aren't going to help me get onto the course when it's clogged up. Playing once a week isn't the point - the point is that it's regularly like this. I could play five times a week and meet with the same problem.

Don't know why you can't believe what you're reading. It's not that outlandish to be cheesed off that I can't use the service I'm paying for.

Yes, I can't believe you're complaining. The juveniles pay a sum of money to use the facilities, clearly your club provides them with as much right as you to be out there midweek.

Your original post clearly stated you got a spot at the end of the range. Based on that it looks to me that there was a facility there for you to use.
It was the noise that p*ssed you off. It's not a library. Hence my suggestion of headphones.

The money you pay provides no guarantees of use of facilities. What do you do when you arrive at a busy ATM or toilet? You wait to use the facility.

The weather is smashing and it's the week of the masters. Of course the course is going to be busy.

My reaction is proportional to your expectation to be able to arrive down to your course and have the place to yourself.

SeanF

So basically what you're saying is this:

"It was a lovely day today and the golf course was really busy".

The fact that the players on the course were mostly juveniles is irrelevant.

Also, you went to the driving range, and it was noisy. It's a driving range, deal with it.

SevesThreeIron

Russman wrote: »

I can sort of see where you're coming from, but at the same time, surely no member expects to be able to use the club absolutely 100% as and when he pleases ? What if it was a society that were paying for a day out ?

Definitely don't expect to use the place 100%, that would be very unrealistic as you suggest. When I was a juvenile/student I always stood aside and let adult members play away unless they were a fourball or whatever and I was clearly faster and going to keep ahead. Don't see what's wrong with that. The society thing is a different issue in fairness, they're bringing in X amount of money, maybe a couple of grand and they're pencilled into the diary as playing at X time. I can easily avoid them.

moycullen14

SevesThreeIron wrote: »

Jeez, what a frustrating afternoon. Window of opportunity final opens up - kids elsewhere, work finished early, weather decent - and the course is clogged up with juveniles. Even the driving range has been taken over. Got a spot at the end of the driving range and another young lad arrives in beside me, chatting away about some guff to his buddies. Just threw my hat at it and came home. That's it now until next week probably, if lucky. Grrrr.

I was a juvenile myself for years and will get my kids involved as soon as they're old enough. But at a basic level, not being able to use the facilities as a full member, and paying a wad of cash for the privilege, because kids are out in force is wrong to me. I don't know if it happens in other clubs but in our place it's like this all summer.

You could just tee-off, roar at them to get out of the way and threaten to brain the little feckers with a 3-iron. Works for me!

lowelife

Or actually ask to play a game with them, share your words of wisdom of being a junior once and what you had to do to get by, they'll probably laugh a bit too, they get a much fairer deal than we did back then, but even still they are members too.

Rikand

moycullen14 wrote: »

You could just tee-off, roar at them to get out of the way and threaten to brain the little feckers with a 3-iron. Works for me!

No wonder people are giving up golf.....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057404547

tessat

Not only are the children the future but it is a great way for parents to spend time with their children, a common and shared interest. As per my previous thread on handicaps my partner has just joined a club, he did so with my son (not his). They spend a great deal of time together now enjoying their new sport.
It is fantastic to watch the bond grow, I find it sad that anybody would see young people enjoying golf a bad thing. The energy and enthusiasm that young people bring to any sport is what will ensure it's longevity.

the_syco

SevesThreeIron wrote: »

kids elsewhere, work finished early, weather decent - and the course is clogged up with juveniles

It's mid-week. Adults generally use the driving range in the evening and play the courses at the weekend, and the kids generally have restricted access during those times.

If you have an issue, talk to your pro, and see if you can get a mid-week day that restricts who can play. In saying that, the pro may have looked at how little the adults play ball during the week, and allow the kids to play golf during these quite off-peak times.

Senecio

Sunny afternoon and mid term break and the course is full of juveniles. How rude of them to interrupt your day.

I pay €570 a year in Motor tax. I wish those in their Band A cars would piss off and leave me to myself on the M50 during peak hour.

Get over yourself.

Seanf999

I'm a junior, I'm 17, I play off the back tees or the regulars and I get held up by adults on the course. But I pay my fees as do they so who am I to complain.

A friend of mine was told he shouldn't be on the course on his own because he's only a child (granted he looks about 12) and he probably doesn't have a handicap and only came out for the weather.
He's playing off 6, he let the lad through to shut him up and was stuck behind him for two holes before he was let through again.

Everyone who pays their fees should have full access.

callaway92

Did the juveniles do something wrong or am I missing something?

callaway92

Seanf999 wrote: »

I'm a junior, I'm 17, I play off the back tees or the regulars and I get held up by adults on the course. But I pay my fees as do they so who am I to complain.

A friend of mine was told he shouldn't be on the course on his own because he's only a child (granted he looks about 12) and he probably doesn't have a handicap and only came out for the weather.
He's playing off 6, he let the lad through to shut him up and was stuck behind him for two holes before he was let through again.

Everyone who pays their fees should have full access.

I dunno what the point of the essay you wrote was, but ya the bolded part is all anyone needs say really.

Seanf999

callaway92 wrote: »

I dunno what the point of the essay you wrote was, but ya the bolded part is all anyone needs say really.

It shows it goes both ways but not everyone complains.

callaway92

Seanf999 wrote: »

It shows it goes both ways but not everyone complains.

Good point actually. I hate that when I was younger (being held up by adults)

Seanf999

callaway92 wrote: »

Good point actually. I hate that when I was younger (being held up by adults)

Some are nice enough to let you through, others can't swallow their pride

Ciaranra

SevesThreeIron wrote: »

There's all kinds of ways to promote junior golf without letting them out on the course at the expense of full members. Stuff like Snag Golf, driving range skills challenges, tuition, kids competitions which there are already plenty of. The future is important but so is the present, i.e. the 1k a year from full members.

Got my 6 year old started this year he enjoys being on course gets bored on the range so i take him out late when its less busy. Hate to think a fellow member would have a problem with this

Rikand

Ciaranra wrote: »

Got my 6 year old started this year he enjoys being on course gets bored on the range so i take him out late when its less busy. Hate to think a fellow member would have a problem with this

The only problem for your 6 year old and the club is that he might not be covered by insurance, should anything untoward happen to him while on the course....

zl1whqvjs75cdy

I remember being a junior at my old course and the senior members were always totally disrespectful and completely uncompromising when it came to us. I was never very good as a junior but I was ok, got down to 13 at my lowest so its not like I was hacking up the course, but seniors would regularly insist on playing through, even when they had no right and the course was jammed in front of us. They were none too polite about it either. It put me off playing golf as I got the impression that everyone in the club was a total asshat. Haven't really picked up a club since I was 17 (26 now) and several of my golf buddies from those days are the same. This isn't a boo hoo poor me sob story, merely pointing out that the hostile attitude of seniors towards juniors is damaging the game at a local level.

Russman

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

I remember being a junior at my old course and the senior members were always totally disrespectful and completely uncompromising when it came to us. I was never very good as a junior but I was ok, got down to 13 at my lowest so its not like I was hacking up the course, but seniors would regularly insist on playing through, even when they had no right and the course was jammed in front of us. They were none too polite about it either. It put me off playing golf as I got the impression that everyone in the club was a total asshat. Haven't really picked up a club since I was 17 (26 now) and several of my golf buddies from those days are the same. This isn't a boo hoo poor me sob story, merely pointing out that the hostile attitude of seniors towards juniors is damaging the game at a local level.

True enough, but its not the case in all clubs.
I remember when I was a junior (way back when !!) there was never any real issue with the seniors, of course there were one or two grumps who'd give out if you won something but that was about it. For one season though, I was a junior member in a different club and it was totally different, I can't remember how many times juniors would be told "....well, I'm giving you a ruling and you can't play this evening......."
Thankfully most clubs are more enlightened nowadays.

shabalala

OP getting a hammering here, and rightly so, that's all that is bad about golf.
Shame on you.

Ciaranra

Rikand wrote: »

The only problem for your 6 year old and the club is that he might not be covered by insurance, should anything untoward happen to him while on the course....

I think 6 hes covered he will be official junior member this weekend
So doubt he be allowed to join if there is an issue with insurance

Redzah

SevesThreeIron wrote: »

Jeez, what a frustrating afternoon. Window of opportunity final opens up - kids elsewhere, work finished early, weather decent - and the course is clogged up with juveniles. Even the driving range has been taken over. Got a spot at the end of the driving range and another young lad arrives in beside me, chatting away about some guff to his buddies. Just threw my hat at it and came home. That's it now until next week probably, if lucky. Grrrr.

I was a juvenile myself for years and will get my kids involved as soon as they're old enough. But at a basic level, not being able to use the facilities as a full member, and paying a wad of cash for the privilege, because kids are out in force is wrong to me. I don't know if it happens in other clubs but in our place it's like this all summer.

Does your club not use the BRS booking system? Most clubs utilise this and don't give access to the Juveniles to book a time. Therefore, they can only go out when there is a gap in the timesheet on the day in question which is fair and most juveniles are delighted to be able to hang around the club and go out when there is a free slot.

As a full member all you have to do is book a slot on BRS or ring the pro shop and book a time. It is unlikely that the club pro would tell you that the tee is full as the juveniles have booked all the tee times and If this is the case then it is something to be dealt with at a committee level.

However, if you just show up on the easter break during the best weather of the year and expect to be able to just go out, then I believe you're own naivety has contributed to your frustration.

blue note

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

I remember being a junior at my old course and the senior members were always totally disrespectful and completely uncompromising when it came to us. I was never very good as a junior but I was ok, got down to 13 at my lowest so its not like I was hacking up the course, but seniors would regularly insist on playing through, even when they had no right and the course was jammed in front of us. They were none too polite about it either. It put me off playing golf as I got the impression that everyone in the club was a total asshat. Haven't really picked up a club since I was 17 (26 now) and several of my golf buddies from those days are the same. This isn't a boo hoo poor me sob story, merely pointing out that the hostile attitude of seniors towards juniors is damaging the game at a local level.

This sounds very familiar, although I do still play. When I was a junior it was drilled into us to call the adults through, even when we knew they were going to hold us up. As a two ball on a course where you were waiting for the group in front over every shot you'd still be expected to call a fourball behind through. Some people were truly ignorant about it - might not even get a thanks.

The women members tended to be the rudest and most uncompromising of all to us.

I used to find it all annoying to be honest. My subs might have just been 100e or so, but that was a lot of money to me.

tessat

We were down in the club again yesterday evening and my son (8) was brought around to all the members who were there and introduced as the clubs newest and youngest member. He got a roaring welcome. The ladies and men's captain both made points of telling us how welcome we all are in the club house and that the members are more like family. That they are delighted to have new young blood in the club, how they are the future.
Some of the stories here make me think how lucky we are to have such a fantastic club on our doorstep.

Russman

Redzah wrote: »

Does your club not use the BRS booking system? Most clubs utilise this and don't give access to the Juveniles to book a time.

Do many clubs use online booking for weekdays or non-competition days though ? I'd have thought its a bit "overkill" if they do, no ? Granted the situation the op found himself in may not have happened, but it also rules out (or makes it awkward for) a last minute decision to head up for a sneaky few holes on an evening.

TheDoc

I think the fact it was juveniles was irrelevant, its lovely weather out and obviously there is the Easter break for kids, but a lot of parents would take holidays as well over this period(due to kids being off).

So it could just as easily being a load of father and mothers out grabbing a sneaky game during their time off.

As a juvenile in the past myself, my club was excellent in terms of providing platforms and integration for junior golfers, throughout their time as juniors, to integrating them into full membership. The rules might have changed, but at the time I was a junior, I had full access to the course Mon-Friday outside of competition.

To enter competition at the age of 16 or under, I needed to with an adult in my playing group that was like a "monitor" as such. As in 4 young lads couldn't go out together, it needed an adult. This never caused problems.

As the junior club grew, and good golfers started to emerge, it transformed that if you were playing of 14 or under (handicap) you could put your name on the sheet yourself, into any available slot midweek or weekend. This was brilliant as I started to play much more golf, and started to meet people in my club that I'd never have met otherwise.

For the first few years of the Junior section, it was a rule that a junior couldn't win a prize in an adult competition. We were only eligible for class prizes. At an AGM there was a massively supported motion from the adult section of the club to change the ruling to allow juniors compete for top prizes. And so it was, myself picking up many an adult prize as a young-mid teen, and getting nothing but praise and congratulations, with no bad blood or begrudgery.

That only paid the club in good stead. I was one of the first juniors to play on an adult club team, along with a handful of others, and then all of a sudden most teams had some junior members. Club started to win pennants, competitions and challenge matches etc.

I know from friends at other clubs, I was blessed in my club. We were treated as equals, never had any grief, and were welcomed by adult members and it provided tremendous integration rather then contempt.

Unfortunately numbers have died off in the junior section over the last few years, but throughout the club now, through various handicapp ranges, there are guys and girs littered about who all came through the junior section, with some even now operating on committees and panels.

I'm 27 and while I've put golf on hold this year, I was more then welcoming to juniors as adults were to me when I was kid, happily playing in competition with the kids, or offering myself for practice matches ahead of their matchplay comps or even to walk around and give some pointers ahead of team based comps.

Every club should be welcoming and tolerant of junior golfers, and personally any club that isn't wouldn't get my money for a round.

TheDoc

lowelife wrote: »

Or actually ask to play a game with them, share your words of wisdom of being a junior once and what you had to do to get by, they'll probably laugh a bit too, they get a much fairer deal than we did back then, but even still they are members too.

Wonder did you even contemplate seeing if you could join in with a group that was out?

Appreciate if you just wanted a game by yourself, I'm like that too sometimes want to practice by myself and kindly decline invitations to join groups already on the tee.

But if you just wanted 18 holes might have been an option. As you said in your OP you hope your kids take up golf. I hope my daughter does too when shes old enough, and while I know my club is fine, I wouldn't be happy at a club where she would be treated as a sub standard member, and subject to things like "I pay more I should have more access".

The "juniors to let adults through" also grates me btw. We had it for about a year when the juniors started, assuming it was taken from another club with an established junior section. But it was scrapped the year after when it was pretty obvious that the juniors weren't out just messing and acting the maggot, and were actually perfectly fine golfers.

Then again must be a culture thing within a club, the juniors in my place started shortly after the club itself opened, so it was there relatively from the start. I'd never consider demanding to be let through a group of juniors ahead of me...****..

neckedit

was gonna play this morning. Checked the BRS last night, booked from 8am-11am by Juvs!
"Ridiculous" I thought. ..I'm paying over 1000 € a year blah...blah...blah.... to be honest was delighted to see the time sheet full all day on a Thursday.....long may it continue and thrive. Personally the out look from the OP is unfortunately not that shocking but never the less it is in my opinion terrible, but the comment about caring about the Clubs Future is a real worry.

SevesThreeIron

shabalala wrote: »

OP getting a hammering here, and rightly so, that's all that is bad about golf.
Shame on you.

Will you go away out of that, shame on me? Look, I realised straight away I was never going to win this argument. I'm taking the non-populist stance which nobody agrees with. I certainly don't feel ashamed about that. My basic point is that juveniles/students shouldn't have the same privileges as full members in the circumstances I was pointing out initially.

SevesThreeIron

neckedit wrote: »

the comment about caring about the Clubs Future is a real worry.

That comment was in the context of someone stating juveniles are the future of the club, etc, etc. Now if it's a throw up between me getting onto the course or juveniles/students playing so as to ensure the future of the club, then I don't much care about the club's future.

Generally, away from the juveniles/students point, the club's future doesn't bother me much anyhow. 10 years ago they were looking for 10 grand as a membership fee. Now it suits them that I'm a member for much less than that. Cool, it suits me too so everyone is happy. But if I preferred the club down the road and it was cheaper, I'd happily move there. Plenty of lads are doing that at the moment. I would suggest it's not the oddest thing.

shabalala

SevesThreeIron wrote: »

Will you go away out of that, shame on me? Look, I realised straight away I was never going to win this argument. I'm taking the non-populist stance which nobody agrees with. I certainly don't feel ashamed about that. My basic point is that juveniles/students shouldn't have the same privileges as full members in the circumstances I was pointing out initially.

So on school holidays and sunny weather we ban Juniors? Very good......

Redzah

Russman wrote: »

Do many clubs use online booking for weekdays or non-competition days though ? I'd have thought its a bit "overkill" if they do, no ? Granted the situation the op found himself in may not have happened, but it also rules out (or makes it awkward for) a last minute decision to head up for a sneaky few holes on an evening.

Yeah, I believe a lot do, and if they don't then a simple call to the pro shop to put your name down is the other option. Either way it takes 2 minutes and provides certainty before you jump into the car to head to the club eliminating any frustration the OP refers to. I can't see how this is awkward in anyway, its such a quick 2 minute (or possibly less) task to provide certainty regarding a tee time.

SevesThreeIron

shabalala wrote: »

So on school holidays and sunny weather we ban Juniors? Very good......

In fairness now, disagree with what I'm saying all you like, but asking your own questions and then answering them isn't giving me much of a chance. Obviously I didn't say 'ban juniors' at those times you suggest. Where are you getting that from?

I don't see a problem with juveniles/students having specific times that they can play. Then I know when not to arrive down. Like ladies day, societies, classics, open competitions, whatever. Or as has been suggested above, give them an allotted time on a time sheet.

Redzah

SevesThreeIron wrote: »

In fairness now, disagree with what I'm saying all you like, but asking your own questions and then answering them isn't giving me much of a chance. Obviously I didn't say 'ban juniors' at those times you suggest. Where are you getting that from?

I don't see a problem with juveniles/students having specific times that they can play. Then I know when not to arrive down. Like ladies day, societies, classics, open competitions, whatever. Or as has been suggested above, give them an allotted time on a time sheet.

Alotted time in timesheet is one option and works but if the timesheet is also free at other times then what is the issue with the Juvenilles using the course at this time if it would not otherwise be used? Should it be kept free just in case Seve may or may not show up for a timeslot that he has not booked?

If you had the foresight to realise at 2pm that day, its a lovely day, I might drop up to the club at 5:30 and spend the 2 minutes putting your name down on the timesheet then I have little sympathy. Am I missing something?

Pat_custard

When I was junior me and 2 friends used to spend every day of our summer playing golf in our local club.. we played other sports but being young as we were and training would be at night we'd always have time during the day to go down a play a bit.

Our club had certain days were different divisions of members would play for example in summer juniors had comps on tuesdays and thursdays, men had their two days (we could play in mens comps if we were good enough i think you had to be below 15 handicap) and women had their two days, then I think sunday was just a free for all.

Even on our none playing days we would just go down and spend a few hours on the range or green. We used to love it.

But by jesus were there some moany adult members, both men and women. Us juniors were the absolute bane of their life, sundays especially. Everyone would assume we're just useless and would tell us to let them tee of first because we'd only hold them up before even seeing our tee shots or asking our handicaps (my two friends and I were three very good golfers for our age). Adult members would even try sneak out on junior days and completely ignore us or tell us to get some respect if we spoke to them about it not being their day. The club didn't care or want to help us because we were only paying pittance compared to the adults. It was honestly the most frustrating social club I've ever been a part of.

One summer when I was 17 (it was my last year as a juvenile and looking back I don't know how I lasted that long) we had just tee'd off on the 12 hole. we began to walk up and had just reached the fairway when we heard a call and it was a woman across the small river that divided 12 and 11. She was just after hitting her approach to 11 green and, she was the lady captain and asked if they could play through. Since we weren't holding them up and they were a 4 ball while we were a 3 ball we said no and walked on. A few days later I received a letter from my club saying I was SUSPENDED for gross misconduct towards the lady captain. I quit the golf club after that.

I recently went back to playing and I'm now in my 20's because the new mens captain is a member of the local gaa and when I told him my story he looked further into and it turns out the lady had been kicked out of the club herself for bullying.

I've lost interest in the sport since and it really annoys me taht I have and also to see the OP giving out about children, because of what happened to me

SevesThreeIron

Redzah wrote: »

Alotted time in timesheet is one option and works but if the timesheet is also free at other times then what is the issue with the Juvenilles using the course at this time if it would not otherwise be used?

No, I don't think you're missing anything at all. I've said that I think full members should have preference over juveniles/students in a straight head to head to use the course. Clearly you disagree so nobody is missing anything, just disagreeing.

On the issue of not ringing ahead beforehand, it hasn't been a problem up until literally this week. Combination of holidays and fine weather means the place has started booming again. It will stay this way from now on so I will definitely be checking ahead in future.

neckedit

SevesThreeIron wrote:

That comment was in the context of someone stating juveniles are the future of the club, etc, etc. Now if it's a throw up between me getting onto the course or juveniles/students playing so as to ensure the future of the club, then I don't much care about the club's future.

yeah...and I still think it's a worrying comment, juniors need to be encouraged to play the game so in turn the become the Full fee paying members that in turn keeps the club alive....your post, even though you know you're going to get stick for it, is an opinion that serves absolutely no good for the game what so ever.

Redzah

SevesThreeIron wrote: »

No, I don't think you're missing anything at all. I've said that I think full members should have preference over juveniles/students in a straight head to head to use the course. Clearly you disagree so nobody is missing anything, just disagreeing.

On the issue of not ringing ahead beforehand, it hasn't been a problem up until literally this week. Combination of holidays and fine weather means the place has started booming again. It will stay this way from now on so I will definitely be checking ahead in future.

The problem is that you relinquished your entitlement that comes with your full membership by arriving up without booking a tee time in advance, this is most likely an entitlement that the Juveniles don't have. I think as you've admitted above, you have learned from this experience and you will ring ahead in the future so the problem will be mitigated going forward.

Domo1982

SevesThreeIron wrote: »

Will you go away out of that, shame on me? Look, I realised straight away I was never going to win this argument. I'm taking the non-populist stance which nobody agrees with. I certainly don't feel ashamed about that. My basic point is that juveniles/students shouldn't have the same privileges as full members in the circumstances I was pointing out initially.

Well I doubt you posted on here to get a beating so you have been a bit naive I think.

You certainly seemed disconnected from the golfing public at large on here and I'm sorry, but no matter what the context is, saying that you don't care about your clubs future is pretty pathetic statement and probably gives us a pretty good snapshot of the kind of person you are.