Manifold - mechanical switch

2012paddy2012

I have three rads in kitchen. I want to be able to control them mechanically at hotpress manifold. All pipes supply/return are dropped down from hotpress.
Is it possible to fit a -lever- switch over the manifold so that a turn of the lever will stop these three rads from heating , while the rest of house heats as normal when central heating is on.

I have an alternative heat source in kitchen , I want to be able to turn off the 3 rads with the turn of a switch(lever).But also be able to turn them on again on way to bed at night sot hat they will come on with heating in the mornings!😀

Dtp1979

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

I have three rads in kitchen. I want to be able to control them mechanically at hotpress manifold. All pipes supply/return are dropped down from hotpress.
Is it possible to fit a -lever- switch over the manifold so that a turn of the lever will stop these three rads from heating , while the rest of house heats as normal when central heating is on.

I have an alternative heat source in kitchen , I want to be able to turn off the 3 rads with the turn of a switch(lever).But also be able to turn them on again on way to bed at night sot hat they will come on with heating in the mornings!😀

Yes. Either a basic lever valve, or a motorised valve

rightjob!

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

I have three rads in kitchen. I want to be able to control them mechanically at hotpress manifold. All pipes supply/return are dropped down from hotpress.
Is it possible to fit a -lever- switch over the manifold so that a turn of the lever will stop these three rads from heating , while the rest of house heats as normal when central heating is on.

I have an alternative heat source in kitchen , I want to be able to turn off the 3 rads with the turn of a switch(lever).But also be able to turn them on again on way to bed at night sot hat they will come on with heating in the mornings!😀

motorized valve at the manifold or else just get trvs fitted to the rads

2012paddy2012

Thanks for the quick reply. I want to stay away from motorised. The basic lever valve sounds ideal. I have 8 rads. I see eight supply/return on manifold. I have a guy coming who will be he says identify the 3 pipes from kitchen ( another mystery to me/don't need to know tho!) on the manifold. That's grand. I just wondered then at that point .... Rather than bending down into manifold each time I wanted to turn off each...lever value .... Individually ..... Can you just join the three relevant pipes and control from one (master) lever valve?
If you can ....can you fit the lever , say in this case two foot away from the manifold ...so it's just a matter of me then just sticking my hand in at eye lever and turn one lever as and when required ...sorry for long reply

2012paddy2012

No too messy extra electrical etc.... Motorised. Have trv fitted no use as if I turn them down in the evening .....the kitchen will be freezing in the morning .... When heat comes on ....unless I think of turning the trv back up before I go to bed ��thks anyway

K.Flyer

Check if its possible to zone the ki

Sorry, phone rang and somehow I posted that

I was suggesting to zone the kitchen with a motorized valve and thermostat in the kitchen.
The idea being when your other heat source heats the room beyond the stat setting the valves will close the rads.
Consequently when the room cools the stat re-opens the valve.

2012paddy2012

Zone the ki? I have 2 zone heat/ water control in kitchen. This is grand ...I just want to control rads in kitchen from hotpress ...its beside the bedroom if it's just a matter of pushing a lever on or off its perfect so handy ...save messing with cabling etc .... With easy access to manifold ...I was hoping it was a handy way of mechanically controlling rads with limited ... Fuss!

2012paddy2012

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Zone the ki? I have 2 zone heat/ water control in kitchen. This is grand ...I just want to control rads in kitchen from hotpress ...its beside the bedroom if it's just a matter of pushing a lever on or off its perfect so handy ...save messing with cabling etc .... With easy access to manifold ...I was hoping it was a handy way of mechanically controlling rads with limited ... Fuss!

Ah I see lol this for that great idea indeed.I really want a very handy straight forward fitting / mechanical is fine as I will be passing by the hot water tank \ manafold at night on way to bed so I can just flick it on or off as required this tho

rightjob!

if you dont want a motorized valve fitted you can find the 3 flows or returns and run them into some 3/4 with a lever valve fitted on it so you can turn it manually

2012paddy2012

rightjob! wrote: »

if you dont want a motorized valve fitted you can find the 3 flows or returns and run them into some 3/4 with a lever valve fitted on it so you can turn it manually

Bingo that's it ... Thanks a mill ... That exactly what ....I want.
One quick thing! The manifold is very low ... I wondered you run the "3/4" (pipe) up a foot or two vertically and fit lever at a height ... So that the lever will be at a height that makes it handy to access? ( hot water rises!?) just thinking - missus @ kids thks again paddy

rightjob!

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Bingo that's it ... Thanks a mill ... That exactly what ....I want.
One quick thing! The manifold is very low ... I wondered you run the "3/4" (pipe) up a foot or two vertically and fit lever at a height ... So that the lever will be at a height that makes it handy to access? ( hot water rises!?) just thinking - missus @ kids thks again paddy

yes you could run them up to a height saving you having to get down low to turn it,be no harm to put an airvent on the top of the loop.

air

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

No too messy extra electrical etc.... Motorised. Have trv fitted no use as if I turn them down in the evening .....the kitchen will be freezing in the morning .... When heat comes on ....unless I think of turning the trv back up before I go to bed ��thks anyway

You could fit Honeywell electronic TRV heads that have individual timing which allows for up to 4 on off cycles a day & two set points.
I have them for a few years & couldn't recommend them highly enough.

2012paddy2012

rightjob! wrote: »

yes you could run them up to a height saving you having to get down low to turn it,be no harm to put an airvent on the top of the loop.

Thks see pics ...is adding air thing an expensive addition !!! Thks again

rightjob!

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Thks see pics ...is adding air thing an expensive addition !!! Thks again

no not at all just it would be a high point and having the ventwould get rid of trapped air,they cost nothing

2012paddy2012

air wrote: »

You could fit Honeywell electronic TRV heads that have individual timing which allows for up to 4 on off cycles a day & two set points.
I have them for a few years & couldn't recommend them highly enough.

thank you. I have TRV heads on all 3 rads. The difficulty with presetting is that I don't plan on when lighting stove , if it happens to be nippy of an evening will throw on a bit of a fire ...its haphazourd ...not really suitable but thanks

freddyuk

If you have TRV's fitted already then set them to the temperature you want for the kitchen. If another heat source comes on it will over ride the TRV's and heat the kitchen. The TRV's will sense the higher temperature and turn off the rads "automatically". Your other heat source will then need to be controlled to set the room temperature. If the other heat source is then off ie. at night then the TRV's will open the rads circuit and if the central heating is on "automatically" heat the kitchen and be controlled by the central heating controller and the room stat.
I cannot understand what the problem is? You are planning to put a manual override on an automatic system! Just set the TRV's correctly and let them do their job.
If the room stat is in another room then the central heating may be off when you want heat in the kitchen and TRV's will not give you heat. In this case you will need to zone the kitchen with it's own stat. but that is not the problem you are looking to solve?

2012paddy2012

ok , stat is in hall. I am just up now typing this !! my kitchen is lovely and warm. The trvs are all open and on full as usual. The central heating was timed to come on. Last evening I had the central heating on and again all TRVS open and kitchen warm.


Just say: Last evening instead of the central heating I had my woodburner on. The kitchen would be very warm. With the rads as well it would be like a sauna. I turn the trvs to say "1". They sense the heat and "auto" turn down to the 1 (whatever low temp that is on TRV) that's perfect. Result ..Wood burner on Rads off or very cool.

When I came down to the kitchen as I just have , would the rads not be still cool or indeed I understand heat to the numerical value of "1" (low temperature) making the kitchen cool?

The problem is that I have a controller that heats water or/and central heating. Yes I require the kitchen only to be zoned.
Rather than pressing an electrical switch that controls a motorised valve in the kitchen ( with all that's goes with it) The push of a lever
is simple , requires less work , and is easy to operate as and when I need it! I really appreciate any advice , your very good.

I have had a disastrous experience with another plumber very recently on a simple job , that's why I am anxious to understand the simple mechanics of the job so I can watch and know what is being done , this time , so I don't have a repeat of last "JOB" !!

Its a danfoss controller in kitchen I would have though you could get a wireless controller fitted beside to control a motorised valve ...howevere
This way seems simple , controllable , and is sufficient ....and not terribly expensive im hoping.thks for your advice.

freddyuk

Don't touch the TRV's!! Set them to the "comfortable" setting that you want the kitchen to be. If the kitchen get's hotter than this setting the rads will turn off (you do not touch the TRV's). The rads will be cold and your WBS will be hot. Happy days.
In the morning the heating comes on and the WBS is off but the rads are set to the temperature you want so they heat up to this temperature whereupon the TRV's then turn off when this temperature is reached. (unless the room stat in the hall overrides this). If the hall is set too low then it will turn off the kitchen rads whatever and all other rads on that circuit so in this case you need a zone in the kitchen with it's own thermostat.

I think what you are thinking is that the rads will "add" to the heat of the WBS therefore need to be turned down/off but in fact they will only be effective if the temperature you want is not yet reached. Once the room is hot they turn off. So when you turn them down to 1 it will take the same amount of time for them to cool off as if they turned off on their own at the setting of 3 or 4 BUT when the heating comes back on they will only heat to 1 and then turn off thus you have to turn them back up again!!
Try it.......

2012paddy2012

freddyuk wrote: »

Don't touch the TRV's!! Set them to the "comfortable" setting that you want the kitchen to be. If the kitchen get's hotter than this setting the rads will turn off (you do not touch the TRV's). The rads will be cold and your WBS will be hot. Happy days.
In the morning the heating comes on and the WBS is off but the rads are set to the temperature you want so they heat up to this temperature whereupon the TRV's then turn off when this temperature is reached. (unless the room stat in the hall overrides this). If the hall is set too low then it will turn off the kitchen rads whatever and all other rads on that circuit so in this case you need a zone in the kitchen with it's own thermostat.

I think what you are thinking is that the rads will "add" to the heat of the WBS therefore need to be turned down/off but in fact they will only be effective if the temperature you want is not yet reached. Once the room is hot they turn off. So when you turn them down to 1 it will take the same amount of time for them to cool off as if they turned off on their own at the setting of 3 or 4 BUT when the heating comes back on they will only heat to 1 and then turn off thus you have to turn them back up again!!
Try it.......

Aha lol the comfortable heat is on full on the trvs!!!! That's it!!! I don't want to go pulling out sofas etc stretching down to turn them up I want them back on full blast in mornings !!! Thks but I think that just won't work for what I want but thks a mill

freddyuk

Maybe someone else can explain it much better than I have! ??

2012paddy2012

If you turn trv to 1 in evening will it come on 1 in morn? 1 = one fifth of rad output thanks

2012paddy2012

Thanks Fred. I think your over thinking it lol if the trv is set to max which is a comfortable level at 5 and I turn them to 1 \i presume they will continue to output at 1 in morning making the room cool. If you can't get your head around it I understand. But I am grateful for your advice as far as it goes thanks

DublinDilbert

Mechanical TRV's can't be a little tricky to set to a specific temp, some have a very narrow range of control. They can also exhibit non-linearity such as different turn on/off points and delays.

Why not get 3 motorised TRV heads for the 3 rads and electrically wire them up to a room stat near the wood burner. When the wood burner starts throwing out heat it will turn off the 3 rads. Depending on the TRV's you have you probably have no need to touch the wet side of the heating system at all.

2012paddy2012

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Mechanical TRV's can't be a little tricky to set to a specific temp, some have a very narrow range of control. They can also exhibit non-linearity such as different turn on/off points and delays.

Why not get 3 motorised TRV heads for the 3 rads and electrically wire them up to a room stat near the wood burner. When the wood burner starts throwing out heat it will turn off the 3 rads. Depending on the TRV's you have you probably have no need to touch the wet side of the heating system at all.

Sounds perfect. It would be completely automatic. I am just thinking cabling new Trvs ,expense & disruption but that's perfect tho this unfortunately sounds very expensive but this paddy

Wearb

A TRV in a cool room, set at 1 will be open the same amount as a TRV set at 5. The difference will be that as the room heats up, one set at 1 will turn off sooner.

So to set up any TRVs, start off with a low setting and after an hour or so see how you feel about the temp of the room. Adjust until you get the temp comfortable, waiting an hour or so between adjustments. This only has to be done once. Take a note of each setting on each rad. (If you have older people staying, they may feel cold at that setting and you may need to up it another 1 until they are gone)

Turning a TRV up to full will not bring the room up to the temp sooner, it will only allow it to stay upen past the temp you had originally found comfortable.

2012paddy2012

Wearb wrote: »

A TRV in a cool room, set at 1 will be open the same amount as a TRV set at 5. The difference will be that as the room heats up, one set at 1 will turn off sooner.

So to set up any TRVs, start off with a low setting and after an hour or so see how you feel about the temp of the room. Adjust until you get the temp comfortable, waiting an hour or so between adjustments. This only has to be done once. Take a note of each setting on each rad. (If you have older people staying, they may feel cold at that setting and you may need to up it another 1 until they are gone)

Turning a TRV up to full will not bring the room up to the temp sooner, it will only allow it to stay upen past the temp you had originally found comfortable.

OK thanks I will turn the 3 trv s to 1 this evening and light the stove . they will turn down when temp rises. In the morning when central heating comes on the kitchen will be nice and warm ?😀😀😀😀 will do ....you will have saved me a nice few Bob if it works ....I will report back tomorrow!!! Fingers crossed !!!

Wearb

You should set them when the oil central heating only is on. That way you will not have anything else adding heat to the room. The setting may not be 1. It may be less than 1, or any fine setting between 0 and fully open. This you will not know until you go through the setup described in my previous post.

2012paddy2012

Wearb wrote: »

You should set them when the oil central heating only is on. That way you will not have anything else adding heat to the room. The setting may not be 1. It may be less than 1, or any fine setting between 0 and fully open. This you will not know until you go through the setup described in my previous post.

I will follow your post step by step thank you. As you are aware at 5 is comfortable as is. I will try what you advise this evening.

Wearb

If it's already comfortable at five, then your rad is probably running at full capacity. But that should mean that now that the outside temps rise, 5 should now start to become too hot.

Still you should run the setup. You might find that a lower number will give the same comfort Keep at it until you find the correct setting for each rad. It will not be the same for them all.

Btw. Make sure your hall stat is calling for heat during all of the setup.

2012paddy2012

Wearb wrote: »

If it's already comfortable at five, then your rad is probably running at full capacity. But that should mean that now that the outside temps rise, 5 should now start to become too hot.

Still you should run the setup. You might find that a lower number will give the same comfort Keep at it until you find the correct setting for each rad. It will not be the same for them all.

Btw. Make sure your hall stat is calling for heat during all of the setup.

This hall stat at max always.... Trvs all at5 its perfect. I am told that if I follow step up it will work I am going to try it this evening.
I turned one down to 2

2012paddy2012

Wearb wrote: »

If it's already comfortable at five, then your rad is probably running at full capacity. But that should mean that now that the outside temps rise, 5 should now start to become too hot.

Still you should run the setup. You might find that a lower number will give the same comfort Keep at it until you find the correct setting for each rad. It will not be the same for them all.

Btw. Make sure your hall stat is calling for heat during all of the setup.

This hall stat at max always.... Trvs all at5 its perfect. I am told that if I follow step up it will work I am going to try it this evening.
I turned one down to 2 unknown to wife last week she twigged it straight away as room was cooler! I will hold judgment till tomorrow!
I have my own view lol I will follow as instructed and see ......maybe it will work .....who knows but thanks

Wearb

Having hall stat at max is really unusual. Is there a radiator with TRV in the hall?

2012paddy2012

freddyuk wrote: »

Maybe someone else can explain it much better than I have! ??

You explained it adequately!!! That's great when they cool when wbs is on...perfect......I want them hopping in the morn when boiler comes on.... Without having to turn the tvr back up!!!

2012paddy2012

Wearb wrote: »

Having hall stat at max is really unusual. Is there a radiator with TRV in the hall?

Rad in hall OK no trvtho. I have the boiler at 7 it goes to 10....I never really bothered with hall stat its max and house is comfortable ..I don't see any reason to change it ...there is no problem everything is grand ....should I turn up boiler and down stat?????if so why this paddy

Wearb

Set the boiler stat to mid point and let the hall stat to control it. That is assuming that the hall stat turns off the boiler and not just a valve or pump.

All this advice assumes that your system is working properly. This all goes out the window if your system or part of it is sludged up or otherwise restricted.

2012paddy2012

Wearb wrote: »

Set the boiler stat to mid point and let the hall stat to control it. That is assuming that the hall stat turns off the boiler and not just a valve or pump.

All this advice assumes that your system is working properly. This all goes out the window if your system or part of it is sludged up or otherwise restricted.

Its 8 months old and serviced two weeks ago. You say hall stat will or indeed should switch off boiler when turned to nought ? Is that the way standard stats work?will check later thanks paddy

Wearb

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Its 8 months old and serviced two weeks ago. You say hall stat will or indeed should switch off boiler when turned to nought ? Is that the way standard stats work?will check later thanks paddy

It should switch it off unless another stat is calling for heat. Let your oil run for about 10 minutes from cold and then turn your stat to zero. It should turn off the boiler. If there is a pump over run fitted it may run for a minute extra, but if started from cold, this overrun should be very short.

2012paddy2012

Wearb wrote: »

It should switch it off unless another stat is calling for heat. Let your oil run for about 10 minutes from cold and then turn your stat to zero. It should turn off the boiler. If there is a pump over run fitted it may run for a minute extra, but if started from cold, this overrun should be very short.

Thks will try only the one stat paddy

Wearb

Not saying it shouldn't be done, but why was it serviced after just over months?

2012paddy2012

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Its 8 months old and serviced two weeks ago. You say hall stat will or indeed should switch off boiler when turned to nought ? Is that the way standard stats work?will check later thanks paddy

I had a guy in adding two small rads he gave boiler a once over all was as should be he just checked it to ensure it was OK....he installed it \ was satisfied it was running A1 doesn't require a service till Apr 2016. No issues anyhow he was there I asked him to Check it

dathi

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

You explained it adequately!!! That's great when they cool when wbs is on...perfect......I want them hopping in the morn when boiler comes on.... Without having to turn the tvr back up!!!

a trv is a thermostatic radiator valve it has a built in thermostat that measures the air temperature not the water temperature. it closes the valve to the radiator when the air temp is at the set point. so if you set your trv to 4 or 5 which ever you need in the morning and put on your oil, they will close the valve when the air tempature reaches the trv set temp. in the evening with the valve still set at 4/5 and you have the oil on and light your stove, when the air temperature reaches the set temperature of the trv the valve will close stopping the hot water flowing into the radiators in the room with the stove but will continue to heat the rads in the other rooms.

freddyuk

So do NOT touch the TRV just set it to 5. Leave it alone. Make sure that the valves are not blocked by dust/dirt/furniture/curtains as the air needs to circulate around them freely.

Phew!

air

For some reason Irish people in general seem to have no trust (or understanding) of automated control!

Wearb

air wrote: »

For some reason Irish people in general seem to have no trust (or understanding) of automated control!

So it's a genetic thing then. How about black people, or women, do they have similar problems?

air

Wearb wrote: »

So it's a genetic thing then. How about black people, or women, do they have similar problems?

Get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

2012paddy2012

Another disaster ... Plumber put lever on pipe from manifold in hot press which turned off one rad in kitchen ... Where it was thought the other rad was linked too.
Discover that that rad was plumbed direct to boiler ! Third rad is linked to sitting room therefore will turn off sitting room rad when stove on! Don't want that.
More money down the drain. See pic of trv .... Danfoss heating control in kitchen ... Sets hw and or c heat. Can I get an independent thermostat linked to three trv just for kitchen that will automatically detect when temp rises ( stove on) that I can set so it will auto shut down 3 kitchen rads BUT also work auto so that all three rads will come in in am when central heating comes on timed in morning .... Any links to products appreciated. Paddy

2012paddy2012

K.Flyer wrote: »

Check if its possible to zone the ki

Sorry, phone rang and somehow I posted that

I was suggesting to zone the kitchen with a motorized valve and thermostat in the kitchen.
The idea being when your other heat source heats the room beyond the stat setting the valves will close the rads.
Consequently when the room cools the stat re-opens the valve.

I think yr post is way to go. More info now. All three rads in kitchen are on different circuits so mechanical lever will not work as I just found out to my cost!
Can I get three wireless trv and replace the 3 that are fitted to rads? Can these be linked directly to wireless thermostat fitted in kitchen ... Resulting in if I light stove I can turn stat to zero ... (Or down ) and flick it back to max ( or whatever) when leaving kitchen at night so ... These 3 will come on with timed central heating in am ... If so can you link reliable system ... Am handy enough ... Could fit if fully wireless myself I'm sure.

Wearb

Your PM space is full Paddy2012

Wearb

Wearb wrote: »

So it's a genetic thing then. How about black people, or women, do they have similar problems?

Yea, but it true though:eek: although I'd say it's more to do with having absolutely no interest in learning how to use the heating controls after years of using light switchs with felt tip markings or flash timers.

I'v yet to meet a home owner who understands their climote, but it's not a issue as they look pretty:D (the climote that is)

Wearb

gary71 wrote: »

Yea, but it true though:eek: although I'd say it's more to do with having absolutely no interest in learning how to use the heating controls after years of using light switchs with felt tip markings or flash timers.

I'v yet to meet a home owner who understands their climote, but it's not a issue as they look pretty:D (the climote that is)

So it is a peculiar thing to the Irish then. I don't think so.

Most home owners I know, regardless of nationality have the same problems with these devices.

I don't know why I am touchy about this. Must be the approaching Easter Rising centenary.

Is mise Wearb.

2012paddy2012

Does anyone have experience of Honeywell I think it is? Just wondering if the wireless trvs and wireless stat set up ... For one room only - any experience of this appreciated . Good or bad.