Is journalism a viable career in Ireland?

Lollipop95

I recall reading threads on a similar topic a few years ago. Most people said that the journalism industry in Ireland was dying a death and that finding a job is impossible without connections in the industry. My question is, is this still the case? Are journalism graduates emerging from their 4 year courses only to discover they can't find work in the media. I should point out, I'm not a journalism student (would have loved to have studied it if I had the points, so I now keep writing as an enjoyable past time).

What is your view? Are there journalism jobs in Ireland or is the situation still the same as it was a few years ago?

TerrorFirmer

There are jobs but you need to be pretty good as the available jobs are quite limited - but they are there.

The whole 'you need to know someone' is rubbish which frankly I feel is perpetrated by bitter people who failed at it.

Most people do a Masters in Journalism, there are 3 or 4 year undergrads available now but to be honest sounds like a total waste of time to me.

You'd be far better off doing a different degree and then doing a Masters - and speaking of, having a paper qualification is important now for new comers to journalism.

darkpagandeath

Well, I would say investigative journalism is crying out for people.

Butters_Stotch

The problem you have is that all people want now is the clickbait crap you get on the likes of TheJournal.ie, all of which is written by half blind monkeys on minimum wage.

Firefox11

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Well, I would say investigative journalism is crying out for people.

Would definitely make a change from the cut and paste journalism that we seem to be getting today.

My name is URL

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Well, I would say investigative journalism is crying out for people.

Good luck finding an employer who'd be happy to print what you write though.

We all know what happens when people ask questions that their bosses might not want answered!

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/sep/17/irish-independent-ireland

The media in this country is an absolute joke. It's relationship with politics and the establishment is nothing short of incestuous.

darkpagandeath

Firefox11 wrote: »

Would definitely make a change from the cut and paste journalism that we seem to be getting today.

I would just be happy stories were not taken for gospel and basic investigation is don't then if found the facts don't match people get challenged on it.

KomradeBishop

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Well, I would say investigative journalism is crying out for people.

For people willing to fund it unfortunately, not for people willing to do it.

Harry Palmr

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Well, I would say investigative journalism is crying out for people.

Newspapers are not willing to fund this kind of slow expensive work for the most part, they can employ a room of opinion columnists for less.

highlydebased

It's viable once you don't expect to do a degree and walk straight into a job afterwards.

RomanKnows

No, not really. Traditional media outlets are struggling because people won't pay for news. Then you get sites like the journal.ie cannibalising the content from the traditional media outlets and sticking them in between articles like 'You'll remember these ads if you grew up in the 80's'. It's a completely unsustainable model in its current form.

KomradeBishop

Anyone wanting to do actual investigative journalism, would be better placed checking out non-Irish-based outlets with a good track record for adversarial investigative journalism; they are few and far between.

Santa Cruz

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Anyone wanting to do actual investigative journalism, would be better placed checking out non-Irish-based outlets with a good track record for adversarial investigative journalism; they are few and far between.

Irish colleges are throwing out journalism two a penny. Thers only so much work. Best thing is to go to London where there are so many outlets, TV Radio National and local media. Get a bit of experience of different cultures and political opinions.

Donkey Oaty

iv'e worked as a professsional journalist for many years and its not an easy job let me tell you even for one as skilled as me the subs mess with your copy so it dosnt look anything like what your orignaly wrote. is the pub open yet

KomradeBishop

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Irish colleges are throwing out journalism two a penny. Thers only so much work. Best thing is to go to London where there are so many outlets, TV Radio National and local media. Get a bit of experience of different cultures and political opinions.

Most outlets are completely toothless and putting out mostly garbage though; you'll be searching hard before you find an outlet that will do true investigative journalism, without political interference.

copestar

Instead of sitting on the couch waiting for that magical phone call from RTE with a job offer, how about you create your own job and start your own blog or website and report on the going-ons in your local community? Or you can take a specific issue (e.g. the rise of Islamism in Ireland) and focus on that. Mark Humphries is a popular Irish blogger who does some great investigative journalism.

superelliptic

Its a tough market but there the quality of journalism in Ireland has taken a nose dive in the past decade or so and this is not lost on most people. There needs to be a huge move away from tabloid rubbish back to properly investigated, Edited, and quality controlled journalism otherwise we are going to go the way of the US and have Fox as our only source of 'news'.

There's a need for quality journalists, but you will find the industry hard work I'd imagine as the sh1te ones are ten a penny.... =(

copestar

superelliptic wrote: »

otherwise we are going to go the way of the US and have Fox as our only source of 'news'.

What are you on about? There are plenty of news sources in the US other than Fox news.

Mr_Muffin

Why not create a Boards.ie newspaper that is free and circulated throughout Dublin daily?

SpaceTime

The main thing you need is a really good portfolio and a very good understanding of Irish liable law. For broadcast journalism what's key is ability to work on your own, a good voice, an ability to read script and a neck of the finest brass!

The qualifications are useful but the portfolio is vital ... The biggest issue is that you'll end up working for very little or even for free for the first while.

You have to treat it as a passion and a calling as you'll find it's a tough career to make money in and you're only as good as your most recent reports.

Good luck though! It's a very rewarding and extremely interesting job if you are really into it!

I would strongly suggest that you inform yourself about Irish defamation / libel law before you start writing or blogging anything that's too investigative though. It's a really restrictive system and you so need to know where you stand and what you can say without waking into a law suit. This stuff is much more straight forward in the USA.

Grays Sports Almanac

Your PLC is in journalism, isn't it?

SpaceTime

Grays Sports Almanac wrote: »

Your PLC is in journalism, isn't it?

(Looks for the thumbs down button ...)

The problem is that journalism is a set of skills and a natural flair for communication.

A degree in it will get you in the door. After that, it's what you produce that will determine whether you sink or swim. There are plenty of highly qualified journalism graduates who turn out to be awful journalists. I find they're usually the same people who think it's all about connections.

A portfolio is the only way you can prove that you can do what you claim to be able to do.

You basically have to make an impact by showing that you can consistently deliver top notch content. It's really as simple as that.

I'm not saying that a masters or degree in journalism isn't useful - it's a good foundation and a foot in the door but it's not what will land you or keep you in a job.

Also an undergraduate degree in something that allow you to analyse the world or a specific area of academia followed by a masters makes more sense in many ways as you'll have a default area of special interest and expertise.

Being able to work across different media is increasingly essential too. Online has blurred the lines between broadcast and print big time !

Also if you're very keen, apply in the UK too. You can get great experience in all sorts of places over there because the market is just so much bigger.

hfallada

copestar wrote: »

Instead of sitting on the couch waiting for that magical phone call from RTE with a job offer, how about you create your own job and start your own blog or website and report on the going-ons in your local community? Or you can take a specific issue (e.g. the rise of Islamism in Ireland) and focus on that. Mark Humphries is a popular Irish blogger who does some great investigative journalism.

I say maybe only 0.01% of blogs ever actually make some half decent money. Think of any successful blogs and imagine the only serious one is something like huffington post and that only worked as the founder was a super rich person with good connections.

KomradeBishop

copestar wrote: »

Instead of sitting on the couch waiting for that magical phone call from RTE with a job offer, how about you create your own job and start your own blog or website and report on the going-ons in your local community? Or you can take a specific issue (e.g. the rise of Islamism in Ireland) and focus on that. Mark Humphries is a popular Irish blogger who does some great investigative journalism.

Good luck doing any meaningful investigative journalism, without an organization with deep pockets, ready to defend you in court.

Sh1tbag OToole

Only if you're renting out a few units at the same time. The units will keep you rolling in enough cash to buy you a constant supply of Starbucks swill and the odd replacement Macbook pro and some skinny jeans, the journalism will help you pass the time while you're drinking the said swill

copestar

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Good luck doing any meaningful investigative journalism, without an organization with deep pockets, ready to defend you in court.

I can't post links but check out Mark Humphries site. He does plenty of investigative journalism, especially in places where RTE are too afraid to shine their light. He has produced excellent pieces exposing the extreme Wahhabi-ist groups behind the construction of mosques in Ireland and their connections to the Muslim Brotherhood. You won't read about that in the Irish Times.

Lollipop95

Grays Sports Almanac wrote: »

Your PLC is in journalism, isn't it?

nope, business! As I said in my opening post, I'm not studying journalism - I like writing as a hobby and heard many people saying that job prospects are quite bleak in this country

SpaceTime

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Good luck doing any meaningful investigative journalism, without an organization with deep pockets, ready to defend you in court.

The system is designed to make it as expensive as possible ... Same in Britain too!

My name is URL

copestar wrote: »

I can't post links but check out Mark Humphries site. He does plenty of investigative journalism, especially in places where RTE are too afraid to shine their light. He has produced excellent pieces exposing the extreme Wahhabi-ist groups behind the construction of mosques in Ireland and their connections to the Muslim Brotherhood. You won't read about that in the Irish Times.

You won't see it in the Irish Times because everything Humphries says is fueled by his bigotry and sheer lunacy

Brand new usewr with 3 posts and you're telling people to check out that gom's site. Jaysis

LostPassword

copestar wrote: »

I can't post links but check out Mark Humphries site. He does plenty of investigative journalism, especially in places where RTE are too afraid to shine their light. He has produced excellent pieces exposing the extreme Wahhabi-ist groups behind the construction of mosques in Ireland and their connections to the Muslim Brotherhood. You won't read about that in the Irish Times.

Hahahahah

It does not surprise me that you think that Mark Humphrys is an excellent journalist, and can't spell his name. He gets the audience he deserves

Sitting in an office in DCU and using google is not exactly investigative journalism. OMG THESE MOSQUES ARE BUILT BY ISLAMISTS WHO BELIEVE IN ISLAM!!!

copestar

My name is URL wrote: »

You won't see it in the Irish Times because everything Humphries says is fueled by his bigotry and sheer lunacy

Is anything he posts on his site incorrect? If so, please post evidence.

KomradeBishop

He actually made a tit of himself right here on Boards.ie before, if I recall correctly - will try find a link.

copestar

LostPassword wrote: »

OMG THESE MOSQUES ARE BUILT BY ISLAMISTS WHO BELIEVE IN ISLAM!!!

Oh dear. Can somebody please explain the difference between Muslims and Islamists to this user.

LostPassword

copestar wrote: »

Oh dear. Can somebody please explain the difference between Muslims and Islamists to this user.

Oh yus. I am to be edumacated!

copestar

LostPassword wrote: »

Oh yus. I am to be edumacated!

Go on. What do you think the difference between Muslims and Islamist is? I can almost hear you furiously typing your search query into google.

KingBrian2

superelliptic wrote: »

Its a tough market but there the quality of journalism in Ireland has taken a nose dive in the past decade or so and this is not lost on most people. There needs to be a huge move away from tabloid rubbish back to properly investigated, Edited, and quality controlled journalism otherwise we are going to go the way of the US and have Fox as our only source of 'news'.

There's a need for quality journalists, but you will find the industry hard work I'd imagine as the sh1te ones are ten a penny.... =(

Does not help when Newscorp buys up most of the media and set the agenda. They are full of opinionated humbugs looking for a story and trying to make people angry. If people got away with what the press does they would be hit with a libel suit. Some countries don't allow this happen and in Ireland we have seen successful cases against media publications that have impugned a persons character. Fact should be presented at all times not distortions and innuendo.

KomradeBishop

KomradeBishop wrote: »

He actually made a tit of himself right here on Boards.ie before, if I recall correctly - will try find a link.

Ya here we go - here he is (Humphrys) acting apologist for Israel's blockade on Gaza and annexation of Palestinian land; nice:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056426494&page=5

LostPassword

copestar wrote: »

Go on. What do you think the difference between Muslims and Islamist is? I can almost hear you furiously typing your search query into google.

It's an artificial distinction invented by ignorami who overlay a model of christianity on a religion that has never distinguished between secular and religious realms.

Cold War Kid

Lollipop95 wrote: »

I recall reading threads on a similar topic a few years ago. Most people said that the journalism industry in Ireland was dying a death and that finding a job is impossible without connections in the industry. My question is, is this still the case? Are journalism graduates emerging from their 4 year courses only to discover they can't find work in the media. I should point out, I'm not a journalism student (would have loved to have studied it if I had the points, so I now keep writing as an enjoyable past time).

What is your view? Are there journalism jobs in Ireland or is the situation still the same as it was a few years ago?

Hey Lollipop. I'd say the internet is causing a drop in traditional print/broadcast opportunities. You'd be better off looking for digital-based work like The Journal. I don't know that there would even be full-time jobs - moreso freelance bits and bobs for a long time until you build up enough material for the prospects of a full-time job.

KingBrian2

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Ya here we go - here he is (Humphrys) acting apologist for Israel's blockade on Gaza and annexation of Palestinian land; nice:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056426494&page=5

That guy is a majorly ass hole for posting that.

Santa Cruz

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Good luck doing any meaningful investigative journalism, without an organization with deep pockets, ready to defend you in court.

If they publish the truth and are able to prove it they have nothing to fear. Otherwise its a "no smoke without fires style " of journalism that is similar to the local gossip

KomradeBishop

That's a naive view of how journalism works - you are taking a huge risk doing investigative journalism targeting wealthy litigious folk, if you don't have deep pockets to fund highly competent solicitors, for backing you when you end up in an extremely costly court case; even if you win in the end, you still have to be able to fund your way through the case, and have a competent defence.

The difficulties and dangers of engaging in real investigative work are well known:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2009/may/05/alan-rusbridger-ian-hislop

Wacker The Attacker

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

There are jobs but you need to be pretty good as the available jobs are quite limited - but they are there.

The whole 'you need to know someone' is rubbish which frankly I feel is perpetrated by bitter people who failed at it.

Most people do a Masters in Journalism, there are 3 or 4 year undergrads available now but to be honest sounds like a total waste of time to me.

You'd be far better off doing a different degree and then doing a Masters - and speaking of, having a paper qualification is important now for new comers to journalism.

You might say that, however, that was my experience.

beks101

Do your degree with a large side of unpaid media work right throughout - get involved with the local radio station, edit the college magazine, be a key figure in the college media production society and spend all of your spare time writing, editing, teaching yourself to self-shoot, sub and use all of the production tools that all the mainstream channels and publications use (iNews, Avid, Final Cut Pro etc)

The multi-media/digital thing is really where it's at and those are the skills that most editors / producers are going to look for in new recruits. Can you produce copy for digital platforms as well as the traditional ones, how fluent are you in using those tools and how quickly can you turn out copy?

The Irish journalism scene by and large is a damn sight more incestuous and far more closed off than most international industries (speaking as a journalist who has worked in Ireland, Canada and now UK) but damn hard work, drive and grit will always be recognized.

You just have to be prepared to start on the bottom of the pecking order, build up a portfolio of work and accept that your career will never allow you to keep normal hours or have a solid, stable 9 - 5.

Cold War Kid

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

You might say that, however, that was my experience.

Yep, I got a good lot of freelance work on a national radio show precisely because of someone who already freelanced there giving them my number (not even CV). That was 2006/7 - I assume things have become even more closed-off since then.

beks101

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Yep, I got a good lot of freelance work on a national radio show precisely because of someone who already freelanced there giving them my number (not even CV). That was 2006/7 - I assume things have become even more closed-off since then.

Yeah and you know, it's not strictly an Irish thing either. I work for an American network and when we're looking for freelancers in random countries, it becomes a "anyone know a good fixer/producer in Kenya/France/Ireland?" and they get hired on the basis that someone reliable in the company says "ah yeah Jim from Dublin is pretty solid, here's his number."

That's just the industry. And in one way, someone's ability or inability to navigate the networking thing is a good gauge of whether or not they will survive in the industry, as so much of the job is about effective and strategic communication skills.