Plan set - Constructive criticism needed

DVDM93

Male. 22 years old. 5'10". 10 stone/63.5 kg/140 pounds. Waist: 30" Chest: 36".

The above info is to give a clear idea of where I am at the moment.

I played football up until I was 18/19 where I was about 12 stone (stocky build, neither muscly or fat) but had to give it up due to work and college commitments and since then have been running myself. 10km-15km regularly, but not competitivly, just like keeping fit. I also cleaned up my diet which together explains the weight loss.

I'm skinny but very lean. A 'skinny six pack' type body. I'd like to start lifting which I'll be as good as new to. I'm hoping to bulk up in size with minimal fat gain (clean bulk)

Nutrition; aiming for 3400 calories going by Scoobys Workshop Calorie Calculator. 6 meals a day. 40% protein 40% carbs 20% fats. For 6 days a week I'll be eating food like chicken breasts, tuna, oats, sweet potato, brown rice, eggs, protein shakes, fage Greek yogurt, peanut butter, quinoa, couscous, brocolli, mixed berries, etc... I'll be allowing myself a cheat meal. Maybe a pizza take away once a week or once every two weeks. I'll also drink when I go out. Once a week, twice at most at a push where I consume over 1000 calories from Buckfast, but that's all I'll drink.

Supplements; whey protein, casein protein, creatine, BCAAs. Wasn't 100% sold on BCAAs but considering I'm only starting to lift it might help for the first few weeks/months.

Workout plan; planning on doing Ross Dickersons workout which is linked below. One of my friends at work uses it and has some great results from it.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/fitness-360-ross-dickerson-training-regimen.html

Where am I going wrong?

I know this is a TLDR post so I'd really appreciate any advice, the smallest bit of guidance would be a huge help to me.

papu

Do everything you've outlined there consistently and you won't be going wrong. No need to overthink the supplements, yes they might help but its marginal.

If you can manage 6 days a week fair play, make sure to get enough recovery.
That program seems kind of ambiguous as to how to progress the weights.
Something more structured like 5x5 or any bog standard linear program which specifies how to progressively overload might be a bit better to cut your teeth on.

Make sure your form is spot on for the compound lifts.

DVDM93

papu wrote: »

Do everything you've outlined there consistently and you won't be going wrong. No need to overthink the supplements, yes they might help but its marginal.

If you can manage 6 days a week fair play, make sure to get enough recovery.
That program seems kind of ambiguous as to how to progress the weights.
Something more structured like 5x5 or any bog standard linear program which specifies how to progressively overload might be a bit better to cut your teeth on.

Make sure your form is spot on for the compound lifts.

Thanks for the reply.

I manage running 6 days so will have time for the gym 6 days. Whether that will allow my body for enough recovery is another question.

As for compounds lifts bench press will be grand. But the likes of squats and deadlifts I'd be paranoid of lifting incorrectly. I'll need someone to show me how to execute them correctly but that isn't a problem. You go for the 5x5 programme ideally?

I've decided not to get the BCAAs. I'll get enough of what they offer through protein food and they seem like a waste of money if that's the case.

DVDM93

What type of cardio? How much? HIIT? etc... If any. (Would people recommend?)

papu

DVDM93 wrote: »

What type of cardio? How much? HIIT? etc... If any. (Would people recommend?)

Get someone to help you with the form , you can always film it and post it up here for people to look at, nailing down the form early on is one of the most important things, and will help you make the best progress!
5x5 isn't perfect , but you'll know what you need to do, what weights to add to the bar and from what I can tell it'll be easier than the program you've posted which essentially you'll have to do all the progression for yourself.
If you're looking to bulk i'd keep cardio to a minimum, you'll just have to re-eat those calories, that doesn't mean leave it out entirely, but i'd rather do dynamic stretching and mobility drills

Alf Veedersane

DVDM93 wrote: »

You go for the 5x5 programme ideally?

It's not that 5x5 is the go-to programme. It jus to has progression built into it.

You'll need to know what weights you can do the prescribed exercises for the workouts at the beginning and then try to progress week by week.

DVDM93

papu wrote: »

Get someone to help you with the form , you can always film it and post it up here for people to look at, nailing down the form early on is one of the most important things, and will help you make the best progress!
5x5 isn't perfect , but you'll know what you need to do, what weights to add to the bar and from what I can tell it'll be easier than the program you've posted which essentially you'll have to do all the progression for yourself.
If you're looking to bulk i'd keep cardio to a minimum, you'll just have to re-eat those calories, that doesn't mean leave it out entirely, but i'd rather do dynamic stretching and mobility drills

I'll do just that, thanks. I wouldn't dare lift heavy weight with incorrect form, too risky and stunts progress.

Scoobys Workshop recommended Starting Strength and 5x5. Would you personally advise me to do something different? Personal opinions are sometimes the best when learning and not something off a site.

Yes I'm looking to bulk but as clean as I can with minimal fat gain. I imagine gaining muscle without putting on a small bit of fat is near impossible. Would some cardio minimise fat more so or just stunt gains?

DVDM93

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's not that 5x5 is the go-to programme. It jus to has progression built into it.

You'll need to know what weights you can do the prescribed exercises for the workouts at the beginning and then try to progress week by week.

Thanks for the reply.

Ah yes I uderstamd the reasoning behind it. I'm genuinely willing to try anything that will help me. If you were in my position would you go for the 5x5. Any opinion on my nutrition & supplementation?

Alf Veedersane

DVDM93 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply.

Ah yes I uderstamd the reasoning behind it. I'm genuinely willing to try anything that will help me. If you were in my position would you go for the 5x5. Any opinion on my nutrition & supplementation?

Food looks good (apart from Buckfast-Jesus, it's awful stuff). You don't really need to worry about supplements. A simple whey at most.

The program itself is okay - not brilliant but worth trying out. You just need to know what to start at and try to progress each week. The likes of 5x5 and Starting Strength pretty much lay out what you do each workout with progression built in so it takes the thinking out of it.

As for cardio, it's set up for interval training by prescribing work:recovery at 1:2

DVDM93

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Food looks good (apart from Buckfast-Jesus, it's awful stuff). You don't really need to worry about supplements. A simple whey at most.

The program itself is okay - not brilliant but worth trying out. You just need to know what to start at and try to progress each week. The likes of 5x5 and Starting Strength pretty much lay out what you do each workout with progression built in so it takes the thinking out of it.

As for cardio, it's set up for interval training by prescribing work:recovery at 1:2

As rare as it is Buckfast is one of few alcoholic drinks I can stomach. Beer - nope, makes me bloated and full. Vodka - gag at the smell alone. Cider - manageable.

There are lots of rest days in them programmes too. I'd like to be at it 6 days a week, 5 at a very minimum. Might mix some compuund exercises with others if that would work.

Cardio sounds ok. Work for 15 seconds rest for 30. Work for 20 seconds test for 40. That idea right?

Alf Veedersane

DVDM93 wrote: »

As rare as it is Buckfast is one of few alcoholic drinks I can stomach. Beer - nope, makes me bloated and full. Vodka - gag at the smell alone. Cider - manageable.

There are lots of rest days in them programmes too. I'd like to be at it 6 days a week, 5 at a very minimum. Might mix some compuund exercises with others if that would work.

Cardio sounds ok. Work for 15 seconds rest for 30. Work for 20 seconds test for 40. That idea right?

If you like Buckfast you're either from Galway or Dundalk

As the program goes on, you'll find yourself being boll*xed if you're pushing yourself and you'll be grateful of rest days.

Yeah, work for 20/30/60 and rest for 30/60/120 for 20 minutes in total

DVDM93

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If you like Buckfast you're either from Galway or Dundalk

As the program goes on, you'll find yourself being boll*xed if you're pushing yourself and you'll be grateful of rest days.

Yeah, work for 20/30/60 and rest for 30/60/120 for 20 minutes in total

I've drank many a bottle down Spanish Arch. You can guess which one it is from that :P

Thanks for that. Advice like that for rest days are good to know, especially as a beginner.

Ah yes I see now, thanks

Alf Veedersane

The more you progress, the more it'll take out of you. And the more you'll look forward to the rest days.

DVDM93

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The more you progress, the more it'll take out of you. And the more you'll look forward to the rest days.

Thanks Alf you've been a great help. Same goes to you papu.

Chancer3001

Don't be afraid of lifting heavy once you're happy with technique.

I've bust through plateaus so many times when I either miscalculated the weight and accidentally lifted higher, or the only available weight in the gym was the next levek up.

Generally, you're stronger than you think

DVDM93

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Don't be afraid of lifting heavy once you're happy with technique.

I've bust through plateaus so many times when I either miscalculated the weight and accidentally lifted higher, or the only available weight in the gym was the next levek up.

Generally, you're stronger than you think

Thanks.

This will sound silly but is there any rough estimation as to what someone should be lifting with regress their body weight? For example someone being able to bench their body weight. Another being able to do 4/5s their body weight. etc... sorry if that seems stupid to you.

and for example a bicep curl. Would it be more beneficial doing 30 reps of 10kg? Or 30 reps, 20 with 10kg and 10 with 12kg. Lift max what I can then work my way down or lift the same weight consistently.

Brian?

DVDM93 wrote: »

Thanks.

This will sound silly but is there any rough estimation as to what someone should be lifting with regress their body weight? For example someone being able to bench their body weight. Another being able to do 4/5s their body weight. etc... sorry if that seems stupid to you.

and for example a bicep curl. Would it be more beneficial doing 30 reps of 10kg? Or 30 reps, 20 with 10kg and 10 with 12kg. Lift max what I can then work my way down or lift the same weight consistently.

There is no weight you "should" be lifting. You set a rep goal, that can be 5x5, 3x8, 8x3, 3x 12 etc. and if you complete the sets and reps you raise the weight next time you lift.

I've skimmed this thread. Have you settled on a program? Don't create your own.

Killgore Trout

The frequency in the original program you mention isn't right for a beginner (imo as a relative beginner myself), a beginner won't be lifting enough to necessitate a whole week before doing more legs, or a week to recover for those other body parts targeted on other days.

I'd be fed amount of time in the gym too. SS and SL5x5 advocate 3 days - and many, myself included, swear by the results.

Starting Strength (summary http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/novice-lifters-start-here.html)

Stronglifts http://stronglifts.com/5x5/

I've been using Starting strength as a basis for my training since last summer (with some deviations - but i won't get into that here).

These programs harness the fact that you recover and become stronger ~2-3 days, you exploit this improvement to add a little more weight to the bar each time you lift.

At your age you should see savage improvements with one of these programs, and it will keep you satisfied as you will see decent progression week to week.

DVDM93

Brian? wrote: »

There is no weight you "should" be lifting. You set a rep goal, that can be 5x5, 3x8, 8x3, 3x 12 etc. and if you complete the sets and reps you raise the weight next time you lift.

I've skimmed this thread. Have you settled on a program? Don't create your own.

Ok I see, thanks.

No, I haven't settled on one get. I'm asking around as much as I can before I settle on one. Had this one recommended on 'Bodybulding.com' for beginners; http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/steve-cook-big-man-on-campus-12-week-college-trainer.html

You think my nutrition and diet are ok?

DVDM93

Killgore Trout wrote: »

The frequency in the original program you mention isn't right for a beginner (imo as a relative beginner myself), a beginner won't be lifting enough to necessitate a whole week before doing more legs, or a week to recover for those other body parts targeted on other days.

I'd be fed amount of time in the gym too. SS and SL5x5 advocate 3 days - and many, myself included, swear by the results.

Starting Strength (summary http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/novice-lifters-start-here.html)

Stronglifts http://stronglifts.com/5x5/

I've been using Starting strength as a basis for my training since last summer (with some deviations - but i won't get into that here).

These programs harness the fact that you recover and become stronger ~2-3 days, you exploit this improvement to add a little more weight to the bar each time you lift.

At your age you should see savage improvements with one of these programs, and it will keep you satisfied as you will see decent progression week to week.

Thank you for your reply.

I've had SS and 5x5 recommended quite a few times now to be honest. Sorry but this next question might sound a little stupid but... the fact that I will now be eating a lot more, but hope to clean bulk, will 4 days rest per week (3 days in gym) be enough to prevent a lot of fat gain? I would of thought eating that much a dry day would require more lifting time in the gym to gain muscle and minimize fat gain. Sorry again, I'm still learning.

I also love staying active and 4 days rest would drive me insane I think. But look if it's necessary, so be it.

Any comment on nutrition/supplementation?

Brian?

DVDM93 wrote: »

Ok I see, thanks.

No, I haven't settled on one get. I'm asking around as much as I can before I settle on one. Had this one recommended on 'Bodybulding.com' for beginners; http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/steve-cook-big-man-on-campus-12-week-college-trainer.html

Run far away from that nonsense. Train for strength. 3 full body workouts per week are ideal for a beginner. Something like starting strength is ok, but it pre supposes you have no issues that will effect you squatting. Get some instruction or coachin in the big lifts; squat, deadlift, bench, barbell row and press.

You think my nutrition and diet are ok?

Simple answer is I don't know. A wiser man than me suggested the following once. Pick a bodyfat % upper limit, that's the limiter of your diet. Measure this % every 7 days. Eat a calorie surplus of about 5-700 and happily put on weight until you hit this limit. Once this limit is hit, drop your calories by 5-700 until you hit your lower % goal. A decent range would be 14-18%, by that depends on you. 20% is fine with me.

You don't need supplements. You need food. Whey protein is for when you can't get enough protein into your meals or hadn't time to eat a meal.

That's a long aul post, eh?

Killgore Trout

DVDM93 wrote:

I also love staying active and 4 days rest would drive me insane I think. But look if it's necessary, so be it.

DVDM93 wrote:

I've had SS and 5x5 recommended quite a few times now to be honest. Sorry but this next question might sound a little stupid but... the fact that I will now be eating a lot more, but hope to clean bulk, will 4 days rest per week (3 days in gym) be enough to prevent a lot of fat gain? I would of thought eating that much a dry day would require more lifting time in the gym to gain muscle and minimize fat gain. Sorry again, I'm still learning.

DVDM93 wrote:

I also love staying active and 4 days rest would drive me insane I think. But look if it's necessary, so be it.

Throw in whatever sports you train for alongside your weight training. This kind of programming can be used by sportspeople looking to improve their strength.

Hit the pool, or the rower, x trainer, treadmill or play some football whatever.

Obviously training for something like a marathon and strength training aren't gonna complement each other. But just because you're doing a weight training programme doesn't mean you can't have an active lifestyle outside of that.

Killgore Trout

Resting means resting from the exercises. So you're resting from doing 5rm squats for example, this doesn't mean you have to avoid using the muscles used in this movement, just not doing 3x5rm squats or similar during the rest period.

Total rest would just not be practical as most people need to work and go about their daily chores. Though it sounds great if I could ever get the chance