Police raid paedophile home in tipperary

Specialun

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/police-storm-paedophile-hellhole-child-5443094

Poor kid...

Could you argue it was done a bit slow considering the guards were contacted in december

Menas

Ugh..makes your blood boil to read that, poor kid. And yes, how did it take 3 months from the initial report to the raid? Seems way too long.

eviltwin

I can't print here what I think or I'd be banned :mad: That sick fcuk. I hope he dies a long painful death. Absolute bastard. I have a son whose 5 and the thought of someone doing that to him...poor kid was only 6 How could you do that to a 6 year old.

Gatling

Specialun wrote: »

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/police-storm-paedophile-hellhole-child-5443094

Poor kid...

Could you argue it was done a bit slow considering the guards were contacted in december

It takes time to put a proper investigation in place to secure the evidence and get the warrants water tight .
Rather than rush in full of mistakes only for the alleged scum to walk free

eviltwin

Gatling wrote: »

It takes time to put a proper investigation in place to secure the evidence and get the warrants water tight .
Rather than rush in full of mistakes only for the alleged scum to walk free

If a child is at risk they should act, better to make a mistake than risk futher abuse

Dravokivich

eviltwin wrote: »

If a child is at risk they should act, better to make a mistake than risk futher abuse

Theyve been called out for rushing too many things involving children the last 2 years.

Damned if they do damned if they dont.

Gatling

eviltwin wrote: »

If a child is at risk they should act, better to make a mistake than risk futher abuse

Mistake that allows the abuse to continue in another jurisdiction .

Because that type of mistakes cost kids there lives .

TallGlass

eviltwin wrote: »

If a child is at risk they should act, better to make a mistake than risk futher abuse

True, I agree but after the whole blonde haired Roma gypsy child saga last year maybe they didn't want a repeat of that.

Sick bastards out there.

Specialun

I assume europol would have had some evidence aswell

Autonomous Cowherd

My jaw dropped when I read this in Independent online this morning. It is not just the abominations who are the parents of this poor child; it is the sick fcuks who purchase the rights to view the ...ugh I cannot even say it. Or those to whom he was prostituted. The fact that i share air with these demons makes me ill. These sick fcuks are the ones who number in their hundreds and thousands and make me frightened for the future of this planet. I cannot even express how angry and sad this makes me feel. And yes, there does seem to have been an unconscionable delay in rescuing the child.

conorhal

eviltwin wrote: »

If a child is at risk they should act, better to make a mistake than risk futher abuse

They knew for 3 months about the liklihood of an abused child but that doesn't mean that they knew who or where he was, it might possibly have taken that length of time identify the child to track the house down.

murpho999

This is a very sad case and terrible for the child.

But the faux outrage is OTT in my opinion. Fear for the planet etc.

Shocking as this case is, it's quite rare.

I do think though that there needs to be a documentary about how paedophilia is dealt with in future.

What we are doing now is not working as children are being abused and will continue to be

Saw a documentary on C4 recently and it was interesting. It interviewed paedophiles who genuinely did not want to abuse and sought help.

I think that should be encouraged instead of forcing them to go underground and offend.

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

It takes time to put a proper investigation in place to secure the evidence and get the warrants water tight .
Rather than rush in full of mistakes only for the alleged scum to walk free

3 full months or more?

How does it take three full months or more?

Tracing the IP address from the ISP... one or two days, maybe. A warrant is a standard form, as far as I know.

There must be a good reason why it's taken upwards of three months, but the above does not sound right.

That poor child.

SEPT 23 1989

I was watching a documentary about Strangeways prison last night and how the prisoners dealt with an animal who had been jailed a few weeks previously for raping a six year old girl

forget about money wasting courts when you are dealing with "people" like this

El Weirdo

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

... forget about money wasting courts when you are dealing with "people" like this

Really?

So anyone accused of child abuse should just be thrown in prison without a trial to let the other inmates deal with them?

Autonomous Cowherd

murpho999 wrote: »

This is a very sad case and terrible for the child.

But the faux outrage is OTT in my opinion. Fear for the planet etc.

Shocking as this case is, it's quite rare.

I do think though that there needs to be a documentary about how paedophilia is dealt with in future.

What we are doing now is not working as children are being abused and will continue to be

Saw a documentary on C4 recently and it was interesting. It interviewed paedophiles who genuinely did not want to abuse and sought help.

I think that should be encouraged instead of forcing them to go underground and offend.

I do not feel 'faux outrage'. I actually have to stop myself from saying just eliminate these people from the face of the earth. And 'quite rare' is not true and becoming less true.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/father-offered-to-broadcast-abuse-of-daughter-online-1.2160607

This is an appetite that is cultivated by the availability of cameras, online payment facilities, anonymity and sick evil depraved people who have no moral compass. It is an appetite that is increased and stimulated by modern facilities mentioned, whereby barriers are broken down gradually in the minds of people.

Titus Andronicus

Of course the easy populous knee jerk reaction is to demand these bastard parents be lynched immediately.

After some mature reflection & dwelling on the matter for some time I've come to the conclusion they should be hung, drawn & quartered, live on TV, with Brian McFadden presenting.

Guy:Incognito

Must be horrible being a Garda on these cases. Presumably they have to watch a certain amount of the videos to confirm they are real/identities/locations etc then they have to deal directly with the victims and perpetrators.

I don't understand why people have a problem In understanding how the internet can tend to normalise and reinforce behaviours.

The internet does not cause these behaviours but it is a factor in reinforcing them.

Little CuChulainn

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

3 full months or more?

How does it take three full months or more?

Tracing the IP address from the ISP... one or two days, maybe. A warrant is a standard form, as far as I know.

There must be a good reason why it's taken upwards of three months, but the above does not sound right.

That poor child.

You are assuming the IP address the Gardaí were given was the same one given to the user by the ISP. I'd imagine people in that line of work make efforts to conceal their home ISP.

ZiabR

Very distressing to read that. The poor child. There really are some sick people in this country...

kylith

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

I do not feel 'faux outrage'. I actually have to stop myself from saying just eliminate these people from the face of the earth. And 'quite rare' is not true and becoming less true.

Not true. In the past paedophilia was barely something that'd raise an eyebrow, and brothels would specifically cater towards it. It's bad, but it's better than it was.

vicwatson

Gatling wrote: »

It takes time to put a proper investigation in place to secure the evidence and get the warrants water tight .
Rather than rush in full of mistakes only for the alleged scum to walk free

Yes remember a certain judge in Kerry that walked because of wrong date/out of date warrant?

Autonomous Cowherd

kylith wrote: »

Not true. In the past paedophilia was barely something that'd raise an eyebrow, and brothels would specifically cater towards it. It's bad, but it's better than it was.

This was a non-verbal child with Intellectual difficulties being prostituted via camera by his parent. Infants are being offered to be abused online by the fathers (primarily) for money. I don't know how you can say it is ''better'' than some casual, genteel option in a brothel that ''caters''.... (and ugh at that)

vicwatson

Gardai IT forensic team understaffed and overwhelmed - fact. This area of policing needs massive human investment and quickly.

kylith

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

This was a non-verbal child with Intellectual difficulties being prostituted via camera by his parent. Infants are being offered to be abused online by the fathers (primarily) for money. I don't know how you can say it is ''better'' than some casual, genteel option in a brothel that ''caters''....

Yeah, because the sale of your children to a Victorian brothel for the amusement of anyone with a shilling was 'genteel'.

I'm not looking to handwave away the awfulness of what goes on, I'm just saying that we as a society no longer see that sort of behaviour as acceptable and that makes us better than we were.

kylith

kylith wrote: »

Not true. In the past paedophilia was barely something that'd raise an eyebrow, and brothels would specifically cater towards it. It's bad, but it's better than it was.

While that might be true how it was treated, you see cases of paedophiles geeing just a fine in court so it was not view the same way as in modern society, however there is no way of saying its better or worse now. The role of the internet in reinforcing behaviour is a factor.

Autonomous Cowherd

kylith wrote: »

Yeah, because the sale of your children to a Victorian brothel for the amusement of anyone with a shilling was 'genteel'.

I'm not looking to handwave away the awfulness of what goes on, I'm just saying that we as a society no longer see that sort of behaviour as acceptable and that makes us better than we were.

I do not think it was ''genteel''...i used the word because you seemed to suggest that it was an almost acceptable practice at a certain time of the world, and that things are better now. Actually it is my opinion, and I will check into further because I could be wrong, that the internet and anonymity HAS increased the incidence of child sexual prostitution, if only because it is more ''possible'' and one incident can be broadcast to repeated profit.

murpho999

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

I do not feel 'faux outrage'. I actually have to stop myself from saying just eliminate these people from the face of the earth. And 'quite rare' is not true and becoming less true.



This is an appetite that is cultivated by the availability of cameras, online payment facilities, anonymity and sick evil depraved people who have no moral compass. It is an appetite that is increased and stimulated by modern facilities mentioned, whereby barriers are broken down gradually in the minds of people.

You do realise that paodophillia existed before the internet and cameras.

Truth was that society accepted it more and its practise was covered up. Look at the church as a good example.

We're actually heading in the right direction on it in my opinion.

walkingshadow

Anyone who harms a child has no place in society. End of.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

You do realise that paodophillia existed before the internet and cameras.

Truth was that society accepted it more and it's practise was covered up. Look at the church as a good example.

We're actually heading in the right direction on it in my opinion.

True it was covered up a lot in the past, but how is that relevant to the role of the internet in facilitating and reinforcing behaviours. The internet does not cause the behaviours they were always there.

On the other hand in the modern view of the issue we have got rid of the fig leaf of religious evil as the cause which is a good thing.

By the way everybody gets that there was paedophilia before the internet and cameras nobody is blaming the internet, the internet is something that facilitates communication, however people are fooling themselves if they believe that the internet has no role in reinforcing behaviour.

I was listing to both a psychologist and a doctor who specialises in mental health explain how the internet reinforces behaviour, maybe they were making it up to suit their own agenda and there is no scientific evidence to back it up.

Autonomous Cowherd

mariaalice wrote: »

By the way everybody gets that there was paedophilia before the internet and cameras nobody is blaming the internet, the internet is something that facilitates communication, however people are fooling themselves if they believe that the internet has no role in reinforcing behaviour.

I was listing to both a psychologist and a doctor who specialises in mental health explain how the internet reinforces behaviour, maybe they were making it up to suit their own agenda and there is no scientific evidence to back it up.

I agree, Mariaalice. How could it not reinforce behaviour? It is a simple dopamine kick-back reward system that encourages 'more'. Before we had access to endless sugar we did not eat as much of it; before we had access to porn of every imaginable variety and violence we settled for some passed-round playboys stored under the bed; before we had access to mobile phones we did not obsessively phone and talk to people at all ours of the day.

Using Internet abuse increases the producing of internet abuse.

seamus

I think you've said "reinforcing behaviour" about 20 times in this thread now mariaalice; with all due respect do you have anything to back up this claim, or is it just something that you've latched onto recently and now wholeheartedly believe?

Interesting in this case that the mirror seems to be going to great lengths to avoid saying "parents" and the text in both articles is identical in calling them, "the adults he was living with". The indo says "parents" twice, but then doesn't repeat it.

I wonder if this is because he was being cared for by relatives or was an adopted child?

seamus

seamus wrote: »

I think you've said "reinforcing behaviour" about 20 times in this thread now mariaalice; with all due respect do you have anything to back up this claim, or is it just something that you've latched onto recently and now wholeheartedly believe?

Interesting in this case that the mirror seems to be going to great lengths to avoid saying "parents" and the text in both articles is identical in calling them, "the adults he was living with". The indo says "parents" twice, but then doesn't repeat it.

I wonder if this is because he was being cared for by relatives or was an adopted child?

I was getting annoyed with the posters who try and frame debate along the line of ...people blaming the internet for everything and people don't seem to realise that paedophiles existed before the internet....Its insulting and stereotyping. I don't agree with censorship mainly because it doesn't work.

Einhard

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

I do not feel 'faux outrage'. I actually have to stop myself from saying just eliminate these people from the face of the earth. And 'quite rare' is not true and becoming less true.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/father-offered-to-broadcast-abuse-of-daughter-online-1.2160607

Do you have evidence to support your claim that paedophilia is becoming more and more common? This case is horrific and any decent person would feel for the poor child, but let's not get carried away with hyperbole. It's too serious for needless exaggeration. It's not so long ago that an elderly man marrying a barely pubescent girl would have been considered acceptable in most parts of the world- in some areas it is still acceptable. Brothels dealing in children were quite common in many "respectable" parts of the world in the 19th century and beyond, and predatory sexual behaviour towards young children have always been with us, and always been engaged in by a very significant minority. So I don't see how one can claim that this type of behaviour is increasing.

If anything, society's revulsion towards it is increasing, and that revulsion manifests itself in demands for action, and the actions thus taken by police forces increase the visibility of such abhorrent behaviours. One only has to look at the way allegations regarding Jimmy Saville and others were dealt with in the UK, and the way those against the Church were handled here in Ireland, to see that authorities for too long ignored these crimes. They were widespread, but we didn't hear about them because nobody wanted to know. Which is a shocking indictment of society but that's neither here nor there.

mariaalice wrote: »

By the way everybody gets that there was paedophilia before the internet and cameras nobody is blaming the internet, the internet is something that facilitates communication, however people are fooling themselves if they believe that the internet has no role in reinforcing behaviour.

I'd well believe it. But in the past, society reinforced such behaviours. By marrying children to older men, and by adopting a passive approach to abuse which was known to be going on, society actively reinforced such behaviours. If one is engaging in abominable behaviour but nobody bats an eyelid over it, or looks the other way, then one is hardly going to self-examine one's actions from a moral standpoint.

El_Duderino 09

mariaalice wrote: »

The role of the internet in reinforcing behaviour is a factor.

Maybe it is. It can also be used as a means to catch perpetrators and host discussions like this one. The horse and cart probably facilitated and reinforced negative behaviours as it allowed paedos to travel larger distances to go to a brothel which catered for their tastes.

I doubt anyone thinks paedophilia is a good idea on account of the Internet

El_Duderino 09

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

I do not think it was ''genteel''...i used the word because you seemed to suggest that it was an almost acceptable practice at a certain time of the world, and that things are better now. Actually it is my opinion, and I will check into further because I could be wrong, that the internet and anonymity HAS increased the incidence of child sexual prostitution, if only because it is more ''possible'' and one incident can be broadcast to repeated profit.

You'll never be able to get decent info on this point. In the recent past, children couldn't tell anyone because even the police didn't take it seriously.

When you start to take a problem seriously, the first thing that happens is an explosion in reporting which often looks like an increase in incidents. It's impossible to tell for sure.

Reporting of concussion has doubled in 2 years in rugby since concussion has been taken seriously worldwide. It's doubtful that actual instances have doubled.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Maybe it is. It can also be used as a means to catch perpetrators and host discussions like this one. The horse and cart probably facilitated and reinforced negative behaviours as it allowed paedos to travel larger distances to go to a brothel which catered for their tastes.

I doubt anyone thinks paedophilia is a good idea on account of the Internet

I have always said the internet has pulled off the neat trick of both freeing and imprisoning at the same time.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You'll never be able to get decent info on this point. In the recent past, children couldn't tell anyone because even the police didn't take it seriously.

When you start to take a problem seriously, the first thing that happens is an explosion in reporting which often looks like an increase in incidents. It's impossible to tell for sure.

Reporting of concussion has doubled in 2 years in rugby since concussion has been taken seriously worldwide. It's doubtful that actual instances have doubled.

Very true which make the point that we don't know either way, I would say its probably not getting any worse, but we don't know either way.

ohnonotgmail

Titus Andronicus wrote: »

Of course the easy populous knee jerk reaction is to demand these bastard parents be lynched immediately.

After some mature reflection & dwelling on the matter for some time I've come to the conclusion they should be hung, drawn & quartered, live on TV, with Brian McFadden presenting.

You just had to go too far didnt you.

Autonomous Cowherd

mariaalice wrote: »

Very true which make the point that we don't know either way, I would say its probably not getting any worse, but we don't know either way.

''Reinforcing '' = to swell, increase, bolster, support, increase the number or amount of.....etc.

You will have to choose one side of the fence.

As for the internet increasing or creating appetites (perverted or otherwise) i wonder how widespread was hentai or bukkake before it was so well catered to and deemed more 'mainstream'? If something that is pathologically arousing becomes more widely available to view, then could one not assume that the arousing becomes ''reinforced''....that is, increased in amount and distribution?

I had never heard of bukkake I had to look it up sounds vile, I meant reinforced in someone who is already a paedophiles, motive means and opportunity. What I meant by not getting worse( maybe) is that their is more vigilance by society and more openness.

The internet alone will not make someone a paedophile.

I'd well believe it. But in the past, society reinforced such behaviours. By marrying children to older men, and by adopting a passive approach to abuse which was known to be going on, society actively reinforced such behaviours. If one is engaging in abominable behaviour but nobody bats an eyelid over it, or looks the other way, then one is hardly going to self-examine one's actions from a moral standpoint



Again what has that to do with the internet reinforcing behaviour? we all know what went on in the past in society I cant see how that's relevant at all.

folamh

mariaalice wrote: »

True it was covered up a lot in the past, but how is that relevant to the role of the internet in facilitating and reinforcing behaviours. The internet does not cause the behaviours they were always there.

On the other hand in the modern view of the issue we have got rid of the fig leaf of religious evil as the cause which is a good thing.

The internet also creates an incentive to produce more child porn material, thus presumably causing more pedophilic acts to occur.

There's this documentary on YouTube about internet pedophile rings in Britain. Members egg each other on to find new material and the ones who create their own material are legends. It's a huge circle of enablement.

On the other hand, the internet age has seemed to make the taboo status of pedophilia crystal clear, which is positive.

anncoates

Were the police acting on a tipp-off?

Mallagio

Possibly the only crime that really should have a death-sentence if convicted.

digzy

vicwatson wrote: »

Gardai IT forensic team understaffed and overwhelmed - fact. This area of policing needs massive human investment and quickly.

They need to keep resourses available for important things like speed cameras catching people breaking a 50kph speed limit and checking for car tax!

Do they still have to do passports.....fcuk ing unbelievable:(

Autonomous Cowherd

anncoates wrote: »

Were the police acting on a tipp-off?

Oh FFS!
This is a 6 year old special needs child that was tortured.:(

anncoates

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

Oh FFS!
This is a 6 year old special needs child that was tortured.:(

Actually, fair call. It was a bit of a dumb joke to make.

tayto lover

I think blaming the Social Workers or Garda for a delay in this case is OTT.
I'm sure many of the investigators have children of their own and would love to have stormed into this house and end the child's misery but they have to make sure they have a water-tight case before doing so. They could also have been investigating people with links to the child and maybe trying to find out if there were other children involved.