HKC Quantum 70 vs GSD i70: questions please

robnet77

hi,
I would need to get a wirelss alarm installed and recently got three quotes, now I would have a few questions about HKC Quantum 70 vs GSD i70 solutions please.

1) do both apps provide near immediate (<90 seconds) notifications in case of alarm activated, without the need to log into the app continuously to check the system status?

2) do both panels send near immediate (<90 seconds) notifications in case they get tampered with?

3) are intertia and PIR sensors comparable in terms of technlogy and battery life?

4) do they offer a similar grade of protection? (e.g. are they both rated Grade 2?)

KoolKid

1) Yes, both will give you push notifications.
2) Yes both will send tampers. The i70 also now has smash & grab alerts & polling.
eg. If the front door is opened or an alarm event occurs & the server connection with the panel is lost you will get an alert.
Even without any alarm events you will also get a notification if server connection is lost for a set period of time.
3) Yes. Battery life should average 3 years. HKC did have issues with earlier devices & batteries but I think that's sorted now.
4)Both are grad 2 panels. However the installation will be only grade one unless its monitored.

The other main difference is all the above is free on GSD systems and the apps are free to download . With HKC you have to pay for each app & you have to sign up to an annual subscription. At the moment that subscription is €60 a year.

Evolution1

KoolKid wrote: »

1) Yes, both will give you push notifications.
2) Yes both will send tampers. The i70 also now has smash & grab alerts & polling.
eg. If the front door is opened or an alarm event occurs & the server connection with the panel is lost you will get an alert.
Even without any alarm events you will also get a notification if server connection is lost for a set period of time.
3) Yes. Battery life should average 3 years. HKC did have issues with earlier devices & batteries but I think that's sorted now.
4)Both are grad 2 panels. However the installation will be only grade one unless its monitored.

The other main difference is all the above is free on GSD systems and the apps are free to download . With HKC you have to pay for each app & you have to sign up to an annual subscription. At the moment that subscription is €60 a year.

You only have to pay for the app once and you can share it as much as you like.

Evolution1

HKCs wireless gear has been out longer and is used by more installers. GSD is Good but its not out as long.

KoolKid

Evolution1 wrote: »

You only have to pay for the app once and you can share it as much as you like.

Do you have any link to where that is available.?
I have come across customers who have had to pay for multiple apps.Is there some way they can claim discounts?
Do you rate the amount of time wireless gear has been out as relevant?

Sequence 365

Hkc wireless equipment is only around a few years and Yes they did have some serious issues with there own brand of batteries which as far as I am aware is sorted out .
Any Manafactuer can have issues no matter what the product .
People don't seem to be giving GSD much of a chance .
In my opinion I think they think way ahead of a lot of Manafactuer
They were the 1st ones to bring out Smash & Grab Notifications
They are as far as I'm aware the only ones that have a live feed wireless or wired camera on there app
I don't support any 1 particular but they are Irish Owned & Irish Made and not just packaged here like some.
I for one always try & support Irish Jobs firstly
Everybody starts somewhere

altor

robnet77 wrote: »

hi,
I would need to get a wirelss alarm installed and recently got three quotes, now I would have a few questions about HKC Quantum 70 vs GSD i70 solutions please.

1) do both apps provide near immediate (<90 seconds) notifications in case of alarm activated, without the need to log into the app continuously to check the system status?

2) do both panels send near immediate (<90 seconds) notifications in case they get tampered with?

3) are intertia and PIR sensors comparable in terms of technlogy and battery life?

4) do they offer a similar grade of protection? (e.g. are they both rated Grade 2?)

Both Apps will give notifications of alarm activation's as they happen be that from an alarm activation to a tamper event.

Devices off these systems are tied into each other, so the HKC RF sensors will not work on the GSD and vise versa. Global wired devices will work with either system.

Both systems are graded accordingly.

The wire free devices on HKC have being out since 2010.

With the Subscription payable for the annual subscription to HKC you can have two paths to your system, wifi and Gprs.

Gprs on any other system needs a sim to be provided which is not free.

robnet77

thanks for the replies, I had the impression that the HKC app would send notifications every 15 minutes, rather than continuously?

Also, the app from GSD is free but it requires the installation of a wifi/LAN card that costs around 200€? I reckon the HKC app only charges the monthly fee of 5/7€?

thanks!

p.s. I really need to know if I will get notifications within a minute or two from the moment of alarm activation, as anything slower than that would defeat the purpose of having inertia sensors to cover the house's perimeter!

altor

robnet77 wrote: »

thanks for the replies, I had the impression that the HKC app would send notifications every 15 minutes, rather than continuously?

Also, the app from GSD is free but it requires the installation of a wifi/LAN card that costs around 200€? I reckon the HKC app only charges the monthly fee of 5/7€?

thanks!

No, notification are sent out as they happen. I have tested the Quantum using the GSM-SC to see how long it would take to send the back tamper even and you get it within two seconds.

These modules are separate from the systems themselves which is were the fee comes in.

Evolution1

Sequence 365 wrote: »

Hkc wireless equipment is only around a few years and Yes they did have some serious issues with there own brand of batteries which as far as I am aware is sorted out .
Any Manafactuer can have issues no matter what the product .
People don't seem to be giving GSD much of a chance .
In my opinion I think they think way ahead of a lot of Manafactuer
They were the 1st ones to bring out Smash & Grab Notifications
They are as far as I'm aware the only ones that have a live feed wireless or wired camera on there app
I don't support any 1 particular but they are Irish Owned & Irish Made and not just packaged here like some.
I for one always try & support Irish Jobs firstly
Everybody starts somewhere

Yeah after I told them about it. There's not much info on the GSD gear.. I dont think it was HKCs own batteries that was causing that issue. GSD need to create more interest. They have non working demos in wholsalers??? Maybe some product videos of how the gear works. Have they held any open days ??

Evolution1

KoolKid wrote: »

Do you have any link to where that is available.?
I have come across customers who have had to pay for multiple apps.Is there some way they can claim discounts?
Do you rate the amount of time wireless gear has been out as relevant?

no link I'm afraid but you can check on the app and play store that it supports family sharing meaning it can be shared for free.

altor

Evolution1 wrote: »

Yeah after I told them about it. There's not much info on the GSD gear.. I dont think it was HKCs own batteries that was causing that issue. GSD need to create more interest. They have non working demos in wholsalers??? Maybe some product videos of how the gear works. Have they held any open days ??

It was a feather in there cap you giving that info away
I think the time they have set up for this is too long tho.

The issue was a re-branded battery in the early days of the wire free.

GSD where at Isec showing off the new Cameras. Great picture off the external ip camera. The biggest problem they had was when they first released the system it was not ready. From talking to a few of the lads doing the field testing they where not impressed. I have used some for the aspect it can use the Astec two wire devices with no issues.

KoolKid

Evolution1 wrote: »

You only have to pay for the app once and you can share it as much as you like.

Is not the same as

Evolution1 wrote: »

no link I'm afraid but you can check on the app and play store that it supports family sharing meaning it can be shared for free.

Sharing for free as much as you wan't could be considered piracy.

Sequence 365

My company has installed quite a lot of GSD and have to say very few issues. Yes they were at ISEC with a very good stand.All the information one would need. Risco & Pyronix were also there. I didn't see HKC . They don't seem to want to take part in a trade show that is on once every two years. It will be interesting to see if they have a stand at IFSEC this year.
Just throwing a ? Out there why can you purchase HKC products a lot cheaper in the UK can they can be bought for here. I know we are not allowed put prices up here. And they are under strict instruction not to resell into the ROI market.They only way around it is bring the product in through NI .
I'm not condemning there products by any means but I think people should ask a few questions and shop around and look at other products .

robnet77

altor wrote: »

No, notification are sent out as they happen. I have tested the Quantum using the GSM-SC to see how long it would take to send the back tamper even and you get it within two seconds.

These modules are separate from the systems themselves which is were the fee comes in.

thanks, so what is the main difference between the 5€/month and the 7€/month subscription please?

KoolKid

robnet77 wrote: »

thanks, so what is the main difference between the 5€/month and the 7€/month subscription please?

Is there a new dearer price out? I heard rumours of increasing prices and changes to packages. There was talk that it was for polling and also adding commission for installers. Perhaps Altor might have more information on this for us.
The GSD free service now includes polling and smash and grab alerts as standard.

Evolution1

robnet77 wrote: »

thanks, so what is the main difference between the 5€/month and the 7€/month subscription please?

€5 per month covers push notifications and text alerts. €7 per month covers text alerts + push + voice alerts. These prices have been out from the start..

KoolKid

Does either of them include polling?
Is there still an increase to come so?

robnet77

can anyone please comment on the below statement I received from a Security company?

======================================
Motion Detectors (PIRs):

Motion detectors are the ultimate in protection.

Installing motion detectors in each room eliminates the need for perimeter protection i.e. contact sensors or ‘shock’ sensors on windows and doors.
Motion detectors are ideal for verifying that an intruder is in your home as every time the intruder moves from room to room either you or your monitoring station will receive notification of sequential activations of each motion sensor. This removes any doubt as to whether the alarm is genuine and allows you or your monitoring station to act fast!

Some customers are skeptical of this type of protection because they feel the intruder is in their home before the alarm activates. Motion detectors, however, always activate as the intruder enters, unlike other forms of detection which often fail.

In fact, an intruder is more likely to be able to enter your home if you choose perimeter protection as a double glazed unit could easily be removed or the glass bent until it shatters, neither of which will create sufficient vibration for a shock sensor to react.

======================================
Perimeter Protection:

Contact sensors alert the user if a window or door is opened.
Shock sensors detect vibrations in the window panes and frames or glazed areas of doors, which occur if an intruder is attempting to gain access by breaking the glass.
Perimeter protection is normally backed up with motion detectors (PIRs) in the hall and landing areas.

Perimeter protection systems are less suitable if the alarm is to be monitored.
Unlike motion detection systems, there is no way of verifying whether an alarm activation is genuine as generally only one perimeter device will be activated if an intruder manages to gain entry, especially if the intruder avoids the hall.
In addition, it is not difficult for experienced burglars to bypass perimeter protection, particularly if shock sensors are used.
In theory, any disturbance to the glass or frame should set off a shock sensor, however in practice, a strong impact is required for an activation.
An intruder can carefully remove a double glazed unit by removing the seal or bending the glass until it shatters.
Neither method will create sufficient vibration for the sensor to activate.
======================================

KoolKid

Sales speel to sell you the system they want to install. I'm not going to go into a ton of detail as to so many things that are wrong with that statement. But consider these 2 scenarios.
1) A burglar is attempting to gain entry and the vibration sensor activates the alarm. He has still to spend more time trying to break in while the alarm is ringing and possibly making a call to the monitoring station. He is unlikely to waste time here not knowing what the response time may be.
2)A burglar has spent all the time he wants to force a window or door. He has the door/open and still the alarm has not activated.
There has been 100-1000s worth of damage done to your windows /doors. He may even have damaged a few before getting in.
Now he enters and only now does the alarm activate. Does he run now? He's in, he has done the hard work. He knows he has a good few minutes. He won't be leaving empty handed.
Also bear in mind most perimeter systems will have a couple of pirs to verify the alarm as well.
Also bear in mind on a night time setting you will not get any activations untill the burglar is in the house. That's putting you in a very dangerous situation when the alarm does finally activate.

Evolution1

KoolKid wrote: »

Does either of them include polling?
Is there still an increase to come so?

Yes it does include polling. I can't comment on your second question TBH.

robnet77

KoolKid wrote: »

Sales speel to sell you the system they want to install. I'm not going to go into a ton of detail as to so many things that are wrong with that statement. But consider these 2 scenarios.
1) A burglar is attempting to gain entry and the vibration sensor activates the alarm. He has still to spend more time trying to break in while the alarm is ringing and possibly making a call to the monitoring station. He is unlikely to waste time here not knowing what the response time may be.
2)A burglar has spent all the time he wants to force a window or door. He has the door/open and still the alarm has not activated.
There has been 100-1000s worth of damage done to your windows /doors. He may even have damaged a few before getting in.
Now he enters and only now does the alarm activate. Does he run now? He's in, he has done the hard work. He knows he has a good few minutes. He won't be leaving empty handed.
Also bear in mind most perimeter systems will have a couple of pirs to verify the alarm as well.
Also bear in mind on a night time setting you will not get any activations untill the burglar is in the house. That's putting you in a very dangerous situation when the alarm does finally activate.

thanks for the feedback, I would definitely get the perimeter protected myself... they also install intertia shock sensors and leave the choice to the customer as to whether they would like to use either (or both).

KoolKid

No logic to having inertias only either. You can walk out and leave the windows wide open and the alarm will still set??????

robnet77

KoolKid wrote: »

No logic to having inertias only either. You can walk out and leave the windows wide open and the alarm will still set??????

well, they do recommend coupling perimeter sensors with PIRs:

"Perimeter protection is normally backed up with motion detectors (PIRs) in the hall and landing areas."

KoolKid

But if you are installing an inertia sensor it's as easy to install an inertia contact. If your going to do the job do it right.

robnet77

KoolKid wrote: »

But if you are installing an inertia sensor it's as easy to install an inertia contact. If your going to do the job do it right.

sorry, which of the above are you suggesting to use please?
I'm a bit confused now.

My understanding is that inertia sensors may not activate in case of glass panel being removed, is that correct?

KoolKid

Perimeter protection using sensors and contacts on all accessible windows. Back that up with a couple of PIRs.

John Kelly of

robnet77 wrote: »

sorry, which of the above are you suggesting to use please?
I'm a bit confused now.

My understanding is that inertia sensors may not activate in case of glass panel being removed, is that correct?

Your understanding is skewed because that guy told you a pack of lies.
There are a few cheaply made window types where you could get the glass out from the outside but in most cases it would be impossible to remove the glass from a window without activating the alarm if it had inertia sensor on it.
It's pretty outrageous that he is telling lies like that to people and succeeding in convincing lots of people. We tried to name and shame him before on here but the mods closed down the thread. Probably scared of being sued.

robnet77

John Kelly of wrote: »

Your understanding is skewed because that guy told you a pack of lies.
There are a few cheaply made window types where you could get the glass out from the outside but in most cases it would be impossible to remove the glass from a window without activating the alarm if it had inertia sensor on it.
It's pretty outrageous that he is telling lies like that to people and succeeding in convincing lots of people. We tried to name and shame him before on here but the mods closed down the thread. Probably scared of being sued.

I don't know if it's the same person, I dealt with a security company that put that info on their brochure, it was not just junk talk.
My neighbor had his house broken into overnight by someone who lifted the frame and removed one window pane, their alarm was not active at night but I think many old windows can be lifted the same way, because I saw many similar ones...

robnet77

I phoned that security company, a few interesting things here:

- they said inertia sensors are not reliable and are illegal in many European countries including Germany, Spain etc. (??)

- they claim they offer 8k to whoever is willing to have their intertia sensors tested in case they cannot manage to remove the glass without the alarm activating (???) ... if you want to give it a go, let me know

- they said it takes two activations for the garda to intervene, so they recommend putting at least 2-3 PIR sensors on the ground floor, so the garda knows it's not a false alarm and is notified immediately (if someone rings them, that is)

- they said they have advanced perimeter sensors that recognize body temperature on the glass, so if somebody puts their hand on the glass in order to try to lift it, the sensor will detect it (you would know it was not the postman knocking on your door if they actually break into your house, as the PIR will activate and send the second signal).

I'm now really confused...

KoolKid

I think John Kelly is right. Your thinking is skewed with all this. The amount of downright rubbish they are telling you is unreal. Ask any installer here what is better and they will all tell you the same. Perimeter protection is better. Any company that tells you different is looking for the cheap handy install. At the end of the day the whole idea of any security system is preventing someone breaking in. What they are offering is a system that will notify you after someone has already broken in. Honestly what good is that. They will be long gone before the Guards arrive.
They say to you PiRs offer the ability for the central station to react quicker. Surley they can react quicker if they get an alarm activation earlier. Ie before you have been broken into. A verified alarm does not guarantee Garda response. Also a PiR is not required to verify an alarm. Any activation of a second zone will suffice. If you set up inertia sensors and contacts on separate zones you could have a confirmed alarm as soon as a window or door is forced open.
I can't honestly say I can't think of one positive for using PiRs only without perimeter protection.

robnet77

KoolKid wrote: »

I think John Kelly is right. Your thinking is skewed with all this. The amount of downright rubbish they are telling you is unreal. ..

I can't honestly say I can't think of one positive for using PiRs only without perimeter protection.

they do seem to be backed up by various awards received, also they sell Visonic products which I think are quite advanced in technology.

I did not like the "I know it all" approach of the salesman on the phone to be honest, but for the perimeter protection he said they do recommend having it, but using an advanced sensor type which detects body heat on the window glass, plus PIRs inside the house to back it up.

KoolKid

We could all quote different manufacturers who we are aligned to. It means nothing, I use a lot of Siemens products. There's a brand that's trusted. But if I install a Siemens alarm using PiRs only it will be as useless as any other.
To be honest, I am a little confused. You have been given a lot of good advice here from good installers but you seem to be eager to justify this system no matter what advice we are giving you.
Are we missing something? ?

The body heat on glass is a good one. What's the devices they are using?

robnet77

KoolKid wrote: »

We could all quote different manufacturers who we are aligned to. It means nothing, I use a lot of Siemens products. There's a brand that's trusted. But if I install a Siemens alarm using PiRs only it will be as useless as any other.
To be honest, I am a little confused. You have been given a lot of good advice here from good installers but you seem to be eager to justify this system no matter what advice we are giving you.
Are we missing something? ?

The body heat on glass is a good one. What's the devices they are using?

I'm actually trying to have some of you convince me that intertia sensors do work in case a glass panel is lifted, which is what happened to my next door neighbor a couple of months ago.

I value the advice you guys give here and you are my first choice so far (even though you often argue with each other ), and I mentioned that I don't like the salesman from that company who spoke to me, what I would like is peace of mind first of all...

They are using "Visonics Curtain - Clip Pir", that's all the info I could get about them

Sequence 365

A small tip which does not involve technology.

( A ) If your windows are sealed on the outside with slips.

You can take the slips out and there are numerous sealers and compunds you can put in around the glass. Then re install your slips around windows or doors.

(B) Nearly all new windows and doors are completly sealed units.

(C) Another option is you could have external Point to Point Pirs

(D) I am 20yrs in the business and the way we would normally protect a house in an average 3 bed semi is as follows;

Interia sensors on all windows & doors
Contacts on all openings large and small
Pir in the rear of the house downstairs
Pir in the front of the house downstairs
Pir upstairs.

This way you are guaranteed to get a double activation. A keypad in the bedroom is a big help as well. For example if you have your system set a night time and it activates, when you disarm the system you will know exactly what zone has activated eg. if you see the kitchen door & the pir in the kitchen displaying you know you have a problem . Plus you also have a 24hr panic button built into your keypad.

I hope this might be of some help to you

robnet77

Sequence 365 wrote: »

A small tip which does not involve technology.

( A ) If your windows are sealed on the outside with slips.

You can take the slips out and there are numerous sealers and compunds you can put in around the glass. Then re install your slips around windows or doors.

(B) Nearly all new windows and doors are completly sealed units.

(C) Another option is you could have external Point to Point Pirs

(D) I am 20yrs in the business and the way we would normally protect a house in an average 3 bed semi is as follows;

Interia sensors on all windows & doors
Contacts on all openings large and small
Pir in the rear of the house downstairs
Pir in the front of the house downstairs
Pir upstairs.

This way you are guaranteed to get a double activation. A keypad in the bedroom is a big help as well. For example if you have your system set a night time and it activates, when you disarm the system you will know exactly what zone has activated eg. if you see the kitchen door & the pir in the kitchen displaying you know you have a problem . Plus you also have a 24hr panic button built into your keypad.

I hope this might be of some help to you

thanks, it really helps, but I would need someone to look at my windows and seal them if needed, I would not be able to do it myself. If you have some contacts for that, please pm me.
I'd also like to get a quote from you but you would need to beat some competition now .

p.s. I'm mid terrace and on the ground floor I have an open plan layout.

KoolKid

I think what you really need to do is get 3 or 4 companies out to do a proper risk assessment and do you out a proper system design proposal.
If I'm being honest you seem to have made up your mind on a lot of this. Get a few quotes, listen to the advice and keep an open mind on everything.

John Kelly of

Its the same person as I have that brochure.
Inertia sensors are not illegal anywhere and if someone told you that it is just a straight up lie.
The 8k offer is just bluster and will never happen obviously.
The vast majority of people in Ireland have inertia sensors on their windows and doors for good reason.
Like I said there are a few cheap window types where the sealing strips are on the outside and in that case it might be possible to remove the glass from the outside however I would still recommend inertia sensors as at least you have some chance of detecting attempted break in as opposed to zero chance.
The stuff about positioning a pir which detects heat at/near glass is obviously crazy. Just think about it? What happens when the sun shines on the window? False alarms. This is bonkers stuff.
The guy wants a quick easy install, stick up a couple of pirs and be out of there fast, he can't be bothered to do the job properly by doing the windows and doors. it really is as simple as that.

Don't rely on that guy's word, at least you had the sense to come on here and ask questions.
I would recommend inertia plus contact on all accessible windows and doors backed up pirs for alarm verification.
Get more quotes and read a little more and then you will be grand.

robnet77

John Kelly of wrote: »

Its the same person as I have that brochure.
Inertia sensors are not illegal anywhere and if someone told you that it is just a straight up lie.
The 8k offer is just bluster and will never happen obviously.
The vast majority of people in Ireland have inertia sensors on their windows and doors for good reason.
Like I said there are a few cheap window types where the sealing strips are on the outside and in that case it might be possible to remove the glass from the outside however I would still recommend inertia sensors as at least you have some chance of detecting attempted break in as opposed to zero chance.
The stuff about positioning a pir which detects heat at/near glass is obviously crazy. Just think about it? What happens when the sun shines on the window? False alarms. This is bonkers stuff.
The guy wants a quick easy install, stick up a couple of pirs and be out of there fast, he can't be bothered to do the job properly by doing the windows and doors. it really is as simple as that.

Don't rely on that guy's word, at least you had the sense to come on here and ask questions.
I would recommend inertia plus contact on all accessible windows and doors backed up pirs for alarm verification.
Get more quotes and read a little more and then you will be grand.

thanks for your feedback, this is one of the first posts that actually address my doubts, whereas previously I have to say I felt I was receiving non relevant replies.

I might have to disagree on the curtain sensors, they do exist, not sure how reliable they are but the brand Visonic offers them (it seems a popular brand in the UK, while here in Ireland most installers appear to stick to local brands):

http://www.visonic.com/Products/Wireless-Property-Protection/Motion-curtain-sensor-clip-mcw

I really haven't made up my mind on anything yet, but I agree perimeter protection is key, of course it needs to provide some sort of protection, including against glass panels being removed, at least until I get sorted with my windows as they are similar to my neighbor's (who got robbed that way).

I do favor technology though, I would definitely prefer an advanced product, that is why I mentioned Visonic - their sensor batteries last up to 8 years, wireless encryption is done properly and those curtain sensors would resolve my problem, if they proved to work as they claim that is...

altor

robnet77 wrote: »

I phoned that security company, a few interesting things here:

- they said inertia sensors are not reliable and are illegal in many European countries including Germany, Spain etc. (??)

- they claim they offer 8k to whoever is willing to have their intertia sensors tested in case they cannot manage to remove the glass without the alarm activating (???) ... if you want to give it a go, let me know

- they said it takes two activations for the garda to intervene, so they recommend putting at least 2-3 PIR sensors on the ground floor, so the garda knows it's not a false alarm and is notified immediately (if someone rings them, that is)

- they said they have advanced perimeter sensors that recognize body temperature on the glass, so if somebody puts their hand on the glass in order to try to lift it, the sensor will detect it (you would know it was not the postman knocking on your door if they actually break into your house, as the PIR will activate and send the second signal).

I'm now really confused...

I am confused myself with the response they have given you.
Are they using microwave PIRs to pick up an intruder through the glass?

A curtain PIR will activate when the intruder has broken the glass or forced your window. If you had a shock sensor on the window then this would of being picked up. I would also be aware of systems not having a pulse detection on the detectors they use. The pulse is there to detect a intruder taking out the glass plus cutting of the glass.
All the gross will do is pick up on a bang on the window, you need a pulse detection too.

altor

robnet77 wrote: »

thanks for your feedback, this is one of the first posts that actually address my doubts, whereas previously I have to say I felt I was receiving non relevant replies.

I might have to disagree on the curtain sensors, they do exist, not sure how reliable they are but the brand Visonic offers them (it seems a popular brand in the UK, while here in Ireland most installers appear to stick to local brands):

http://www.visonic.com/Products/Wireless-Property-Protection/Motion-curtain-sensor-clip-mcw

I really haven't made up my mind on anything yet, but I agree perimeter protection is key, of course it needs to provide some sort of protection, including against glass panels being removed, at least until I get sorted with my windows as they are similar to my neighbor's (who got robbed that way).

I do favor technology though, I would definitely prefer an advanced product, that is why I mentioned Visonic - their sensor batteries last up to 8 years, wireless encryption is done properly and those curtain sensors would resolve my problem, if they proved to work as they claim that is...

The Visonic plus the Risco do not have pulse detection on the sensors used.
I have heard of this being tested but the only way to get it to work was to lower the gross detection down to pick up on lesser shocks.
Not a great way of doing it and can lead to false alarms.

altor

robnet77 wrote: »

I'm actually trying to have some of you convince me that intertia sensors do work in case a glass panel is lifted, which is what happened to my next door neighbor a couple of months ago.

I have seen this happen all to often.

What I would advise is to pull the gasket out on both side inside the premises.
Using silicone fill the sides where the gasket was. This will make an intruder hoping the glass will just fall out job impossible

I would not advise taking out the beads from the outside to do this.

John Kelly of

Hi Altor I have never tried this myself but I reckon if you poked a small screwdriver in and parted the top of the strips just enough to squeeze some superglue in behind and let it run down the back, then press until it hardens there is no way those strips will be got off after that without major effort.

altor

John Kelly of wrote: »

Hi Altor I have never tried this myself but I reckon if you poked a small screwdriver in and parted the top of the strips just enough to squeeze some superglue in behind and let it run down the back, then press until it hardens there is no way those strips will be got off after that without major effort.

Hi JK, that will work also but the problem is if you ever have to replace the pane of glass. It would be a nightmare to get the beads off. Might cause more damage to the frame in the long run. My suggestion means that if you ever had to replace the glass you could easily cut the silicone from the inside then seal the new pane up the same way.

KoolKid

To be honest there is a lot of exaggeration in regard to this is the industry. Yes, it happens but it's rare and few and far between. If a burglar wants to go to this extremes then if it's easy for someone else to cut out silicone it's going to be easy for the burglar as well.
If an end user really feels this is an issue they want to protect themselves against then there are plenty of options. Perimeter protection backed up by plenty of PIRs is always going to be better than PiRs only. Another option is contacts on the frame and magnets on the glass. Some may say that is extreme, but if you want the earliest possible detection....

altor

The silicone is used on the inside where the gasket is installed.
An intruder would have to be in the premises to cut it out.

KoolKid

There are many ways depending on the type of window and the type of installation etc.
My main point was there are plenty of options over PiR detection only activating after a burglar has gained entry.

altor

Agreed, perimeter protection will always be the best solution over just PIRs.

robnet77

thanks everyone, actually I'm probably sorted now, a security company paid a visit to my place and had a promotion on an HKC system, which I can customize as I wish if needed.
I'm thinking not to include intertia sensors at the back of the ground floor as PIRs would be enough in the unlikely event (I'm mid terrace...)
Definitely going to protect the front perimeter in some way.

I will know more tomorrow.

KoolKid

Protecting the front perimeter only.
Not the back.
Promotion.
You can customise any system to suit your needs.
Sounds to me like you might have been sold something.
Everyone says the unlikely event. It's more likely than you think.
Have you had anyone else out. I would recommend getting 3 surveys to give you a more independent and balanced view.

Evolution1

Definitely protect the back . that's where they can't be seen and can have a field day trying all the windows they want.