Realistically, at what age should you have bought your first home?

MakeEmLaugh

I believe the average age of first home ownership in Ireland is something along the lines of 33 (according to Bank of Ireland last year).

What do people think is the latest possible time to buy your first home? If you are 45 and still renting, have you realistically missed the boat, and should you expect to be renting forever (I'm still in my twenties, by the way)?

johnnyskeleton

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

I believe the average age of first home ownership in Ireland is something along the lines of 33 (according to Bank of Ireland last year).

What do people think is the latest possible time to buy your first home? If you are 45 and still renting, have you realistically missed the boat, and should you expect to be renting forever (I'm still in my twenties, by the way)?

Nothing wrong with renting forever as long as it fits your circumstances. The main reason to buy is security for e.g. young children etc. So if you want to buy, do it because your circumstances dictate.

As such, i would expect the average age should be a few years after the first kid is born

Eric Cartman

i dont think theres any right time. Im in my mid 20's and have friends who've gotten on the property ladder at 19-20 buying former council houses or 1 bed apartments just to get on the 'property ladder' at the other end ive had friends in their 30s still renting because theyre saving for an adequate house to suit them for the rest of their lives rather than try 'trade up'

there is no right time, depends what suits you. Id like to buy a site and build , but unless banks get wreckless again or somehow 500k winds up in my lap , ill be 34-35 before a sod is turned on that project.

pwurple

There's no right time. I bought my first place in my twenties, but I am the type of person who still my had communion money in a savings account.

When you have 20-25% deposit saved is the right age.

myshirt

The saving of the deposit is incredibly difficult. I suppose as an economic indicator you would expect a median income to allow for a house purchase at potentially 28 to 30ish if that's the way you went with your life.

With that issue, and the lack of pensions for upcoming young people, the baby boomer generation really are the ones that saw the fruits and benefits for the next few generations to pay for.

If you have one of those to inherit from or get a gift from, accomodate you while you save, or whatever it may be, you should expect 28 to 30.

In my position, I was 100% on my own from 16 paying my own way in this world. Saving a deposit = an incredibly challenging issue in those circumstances for people.

How in god's name can an average couple save a 60k deposit while renting in Dublin today? Or save 20k while on the dole in the hovel that is Leitrim for example.

OP, if you got there by 35, you would be doing well.

efb

I was 32! Yeah for the property crash!

James Bond Junior

I'm in my mid to late 20's and I'm buying on my own. It more depends on when you start saving I think.

Jellybaby1

We started to save for the deposit in the 70's when we were 20. By modern indicators we should not have been able to afford it at the time but we did without a lot of things, holidays, nights out etc., in order to save as much as possible as fast as possible. I was a secretary, he was a storeman so not very highly paid jobs. We were offered a flat by a relative at very low rent but we knew that even at the bargain rent we would find it hard to save for the deposit and pay the rent as well, so we declined. We had the 20% deposit saved within four years and we were married and in the house by age 24. Had we rented instead I'd be worried now wondering how, nearing OH's retirement, would we pay rent. We are now in a different house and all paid off years ago. I always recommend saving hard early and enjoying the fruits later, so worth it.

NSAman

I travelled a lot as a young guy, saved most of my cash and purchased my first and only house at 34. Bought it with a large deposit with a tracker after doing a huge amount of research on whether I could afford it if the interest rates went up and other factors. Will never move again.

jimmycrackcorm

I think it's a pity that mortgages have gotten to the point where 30 or 35 years are the norm. Albeit I do think it would be possible over that period to get to a point where it would be practical to overpay.

But I think the age to do it is driven primarily by how long you need to take your mortgage out for.

lukesmom

I was 33 and that was a couple of years ago when prices were lowest. Got there with the skin of our teeth.

Hollister11

lukesmom wrote: »

I was 33 and that was a couple of years ago when prices were lowest. Got there with the skin of our teeth.

If you sold now, how much would you be up, if any ?

ted1

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Nothing wrong with renting forever as long as it fits your circumstances. The main reason to buy is security for e.g. young children etc. So if you want to buy, do it because your circumstances dictate.

As such, i would expect the average age should be a few years after the first kid is born

When you buy your mortgage is usually paid before you retire so you can continue to live in your house. If you rent how do you propose to pay your rent upon retirement ?

As for the ops original question. A standard mortgage now a Days is 25-30 years, which would be expected to be paid back before your 65. So anything after 35 to 40 is very late

ted1

Hollister11 wrote: »

If you sold now, how much would you be up, if any ?

From 2012 many places would be up by more then double. In my case 210 is up to 460( based on similar house a few days up in Dec 2014). But the cost of replacment has gone up. So unless your exiting the market the current price is irrelevant .

Mongfinder General

I don't know about a right time. The wrong time is when everybody and their granny is piling in.

alibab

ted1 wrote: »

When you buy your mortgage is usually paid before you retire so you can continue to live in your house. If you rent how do you propose to pay your rent upon retirement ?

As for the ops original question. A standard mortgage now a Days is 25-30 years, which would be expected to be paid back before your 65. So anything after 35 to 40 is very late

I don't think 35 to 40 is too late . I have just started a mortgage on my own will be 40 next month . Circumstances change and it's my 3rd mortgage but I got divorced etc so had to start again aged nearly 40 . I have a 23 year mortgage which is very affordable on my wage and I plan to overpay and reduce hopefully to 15 years . The reason it's over 23 in first place is the banks being cautious with a single applicant and 2 kids and said themselves I can change term in the future. I am still doing her up so suits me at the minute.

There are a lot like me starting again after divorce etc with no choice. I have 2 kids and wanted stability. I plan to be retired by 60 all going well . You never know where you will find yourself I bought my first house with ex at 26 etc and never thought I would be starting again at 40 . For this house I literally had deposit no equity from the last so I was starting from scratch.

tigershould

Bought my first place at 30. Had to beg borrow and steal the deposit. I think I wished I'd bought earlier and hadn't wasted the previous 5 years renting. But I never got myself organised to save. It depends on circumstance I guess, some people may not be ready to own, want to travel, haven't found their partner, haven't found their ideal job etc.

mickman

35 years old. on 3rd house now.

first was apartment at 25, made a packet on it and lost it all on second house :-)

so basically i have broken even on the boom / bust and this house is hopefully my last one and is a family home that suits our needs

I have enjoyed the roller coaster of being in the property market and have learned loads , but i have been lucky really

Victor

Take your age of retirement. Take off the duration of the mortgage.

Banks currently take 65 as age of retirement (that may change), so if there is a 30 year mortgage, that would mean age 35. For a 20 year mortgage, it would mean 45.

Dr Strange

Not sure when I should've bought but I bought my first house at 26 when I was still single, sold it and bought the next one together with my fiance at 29 and now in my late 30s looking to sell and buy the next one with my wife.

Michael D Not Higgins

ted1 wrote: »

From 2012 many places would be up by more then double. In my case 210 is up to 460( based on similar house a few days up in Dec 2014). But the cost of replacment has gone up. So unless your exiting the market the current price is irrelevant .

That must be an outlier as double 2012 prices would be the height of the bubble again. This is the current situation in Dublin. SCD has jumped 50% since 2012 but even that's a different beast. There's some in Dublin in this graph rising 25%.



Sure, this graph is on averages and you're talking about a specific case, but such a large deviation from average is an exception.

Sleepy

I'm seeing asking prices of over 600k for small 3 bed terraces in Clontarf that were going for approx 300k a few years ago so there are definitely pockets where things have doubled...

seamus

The "right time" is when you can afford to buy it, when you've found a place that you like, and you don't see any need to go anywhere in the next ten years.

Whether that happens at 25 or 45 is somewhat irrelevant. I live in hope that Irish people will get past this, "Everyone must buy" mentality, but I won't hold my breath.

John Mason

seamus wrote: »

, "Everyone must buy" mentality, but I won't hold my breath.

but where do you live when you are on the state pension?? Will there even be a state pension in 30 years?

Even if you have a private pension, it could be worthless when you retire. Ireland first needs to sort out the private pension situation.

I bought my house by myself when i was 29. It was a 5 year plan house but that has now changed to being my forever house.

Michael D Not Higgins

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm seeing asking prices of over 600k for small 3 bed terraces in Clontarf that were going for approx 300k a few years ago so there are definitely pockets where things have doubled...

But I'm talking statistics here. Taking individual cases doesn't describe the whole. The graph from daft is showing 20-30%, with exceptional areas (SCD) up to 50% higher. If there are cases going up 100% then there are others only rising 10%, so saying houses are double 2012 prices is not showing the true story.

Larbre34

I have friends who missed out on much of their 20's life through meticulous saving to buy larger outlying properties which they are now stuck with and indebted from until at least their fifties.

My partner and I bought a large apartment in 2004 with a 100% mortgage then topped that up to cover lifestyle expenditure in 2007. Despite that, there is a approximately 50k of equity in the place now and the mortgage is very manageable. For the future, we intend to hold onto the place as it is has excellent transport links, and move into a home I am due to solely inherit.

The only right time for anything is the right time for you, never by guided by herd mentality and hysteria, ive seen it be the rock too many people perished on.

Snickers Man

Forget house buying. It's not for most of us any more.

Owning one's own house is not the norm in Europe. People are far more likely to rent throughout their lives. It's the sign of a modern advanced economy. Many people in basket case countries in Africa own their own houses. Little good it does them.

The new regulations on deposits, if they are enforced, will have a major impact on owner occupancy. They will price most middle income earners out of the market for ownership. The sort of people who will be able to afford house purchases will be the very wealthy or the institutions. Residential property will increasingly become the focus of long term investors looking for stable unspectacular returns on investment.

To some extent, this will push out the worst of the speculators, those looking to make a quick buck. Speculators thrive when prices are rising quickly. Buy early, hold for a short time, sell for a spectacular profit. If there are fewer and fewer people able to buy, the subsequent slowing in demand will discourage speculators. Instead they will be low-risk long term investors more interested in stable steady returns than fast bucks.

What we need are regulations and practices to reflect the fact that, in the cities at any rate, renting rather than buying will become the norm.

It could work out all right in the long run.

Electric Sheep

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Nothing wrong with renting forever as long as it fits your circumstances. The main reason to buy is security for e.g. young children etc. So if you want to buy, do it because your circumstances dictate.

As such, i would expect the average age should be a few years after the first kid is born

A few years before the first kid is born would be better. Easier to save, expenses are lower.

Eugene Norman

The whole you have to buy at a certain age actually does create and maintain a panic. People should be looking for 25 year mortgages anyway, I think.

The pension age will be 68 for most people at the least, in any case. And some lenders do take that into consideration. That gives most people lots of time.

Mrs OBumble

John Mason wrote: »

but where do you live when you are on the state pension?? Will there even be a state pension in 30 years?

For people who don't have a private pension that lets them afford private rental, the answer is (and has been for a long time) "in a council flat".

That's why the councils / voluntary housing associations have specific budgets for elderly-and-disabled housing.

And yes, there will be a state-pension: the social disorder if there wasn't one would simply not be tolerated.


For some older people, owning a house is a real problem, and they would be better off if they'd never purchased. Mr OBumble and I have both met people who own houses that have developed serious problems which the owners can't afford to fix. In a case, there was no working toilet in the house, the owner used the one at the pub down the road instead. Don't even ask what he does at night/Christmas/Good Friday!

These folks are trapped: they can't sell because they won't get enough to afford to buy anywhere else. But because they've owned a house, they aren't eligible for council housing. And they're scared they will run out of money before they die if they rent privately. One answer is a reverse mortgage (the bank lends you money now, and gets the house when you die) - but these are expensive, and not well understood here.

magicmushroom

I'm 28 and I don't honestly think I will ever be able to get a mortgage.

I live alone and pay quite a high rent each month and whilst I can afford to put a bit away in the credit union for a rainy day, I could never save the amount I'd need to get a hefty deposit together.
The annoying thing is, a mortgage payment would be about the same as my rent and I've never once been even a day late with the rent in the 3 years I've been in the house.

So I could comfortably afford a mortgage, no problem at all - it's just getting the mortgage that would be impossible.

Michael D Not Higgins

Snickers Man wrote: »

Owning one's own house is not the norm in Europe. People are far more likely to rent throughout their lives. It's the sign of a modern advanced economy. Many people in basket case countries in Africa own their own houses. Little good it does them.

That's all well and good when you have the kind of society that protects renters like in Germany which has one of the lowest European home ownership rates.

The tax system is beneficial to landlords which increases supply. The rent increase controls are stricter (and are being pushed to be even more strict) which benefits tenants but also in line with the much higher supply is the fact that rents won't go out of control. Security of tenure is higher and minimum notice is 3 months.

Ireland isn't going to magically transform to this type of renting unless serious overhaul in the legislation allows for better renting.

Jellybaby1

Just start small and look at cheaper areas. You never know what is possible until you try.

Atlantic Dawn

When I have an income of €100k I will be able to afford to buy but at the moment I will hold off until next year when prices collapse.

_Kaiser_

magicmushroom wrote: »

I'm 28 and I don't honestly think I will ever be able to get a mortgage.

I live alone and pay quite a high rent each month and whilst I can afford to put a bit away in the credit union for a rainy day, I could never save the amount I'd need to get a hefty deposit together.
The annoying thing is, a mortgage payment would be about the same as my rent and I've never once been even a day late with the rent in the 3 years I've been in the house.

So I could comfortably afford a mortgage, no problem at all - it's just getting the mortgage that would be impossible.

Same as that... working in Dublin (where most of the jobs are after all - especially in IT) means either paying ridiculous rents, or moving further out and commuting (so paying fuel/toll/additional wear and tear on the car.. unless you are prepared to spend hours on public transport!).

I'm 40 this year as well and (stupidly?) rejected the "free money" in the Good Times because I didn't WANT to spend my life commuting or in a poorly-built shoebox in the middle of nowhere, away from friends and family.
I then got into a relationship that didn't work out but that, and unemployment for a year, left me with debt anyway. As I now don't have 2 incomes to factor into an application my chances of getting a mortgage on my own (especially with these new rules!) for somewhere I'd WANT to live, AND still managing to pay my existing bills are pretty much nil.. even though I'm technically earning more than ever!

What I think I'll do is try and save instead and buy somewhere for cash on retirement when location isn't as important and if my personal circumstances change in the meantime then all the better and maybe I will be able to look at an alternative solution.

Sleepy

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

But I'm talking statistics here. Taking individual cases doesn't describe the whole. The graph from daft is showing 20-30%, with exceptional areas (SCD) up to 50% higher. If there are cases going up 100% then there are others only rising 10%, so saying houses are double 2012 prices is not showing the true story.

I see your point but statistics, by their nature are aggregations. In the better areas, prices in Dublin are rising by crazy amounts In the worst, they're hardly moving at all.

Not all of SCD is desirable so that 50% is masking increases far in excess of that were you to look at the figures at a more granular level. ted1 stated that "in many places" prices had gone up by 100%, not that they'd gone up by that amount on average. I suspect she's looking at the market in the same way I do: how is it behaving for property I'd actually want to buy rather than at a national / regional level.

magicmushroom wrote: »

I'm 28 and I don't honestly think I will ever be able to get a mortgage.

I live alone and pay quite a high rent each month and whilst I can afford to put a bit away in the credit union for a rainy day, I could never save the amount I'd need to get a hefty deposit together.
The annoying thing is, a mortgage payment would be about the same as my rent and I've never once been even a day late with the rent in the 3 years I've been in the house.

So I could comfortably afford a mortgage, no problem at all - it's just getting the mortgage that would be impossible.

The bit I've bolded is what's holding you back. Move into a house-share and you'd be far better able to put a deposit together. If you think it's difficult to save as a single, you'll never manage it with a partner & kids.

I'm in a similar situation in that my rent could easily cover a reasonable mortgage / maintenance / insurance etc. but am struggling to get a deposit together and, tbh, it's because I wasn't more careful with my money when I was single and in my twenties that I'll continue to struggle to do so for at least another 5/6 years.

_Kaiser_

Sleepy wrote: »

The bit I've bolded is what's holding you back. Move into a house-share and you'd be far better able to put a deposit together. If you think it's difficult to save as a single, you'll never manage it with a partner & kids.

I see your point myself but house-sharing in this country is typically a minefield. Renting in general is often a lottery as to whether it'll turn out ok (cause the whole sector generally isn't taken seriously by any of sides involved but rather treated as a "stepping stone" you have to "endure" on the road to ownership)

Plus, as someone who did share in my 20s, doing so when you get a bit older is not something you want to do - generally because people our age are "supposed" to have bought by now and speaking for myself, sharing with a bunch of pub-going/party hard 20-somethings would be the last thing I'd want!

These days peace and quiet and privacy are far more important.. I am getting old though!

seamus

John Mason wrote: »

but where do you live when you are on the state pension??

In council housing.

Buying yourself a nice house to retire in is a really bad idea if you don't have any other plans to back it up.

The amount of executor sales I've gone to where the property wouldn't meet council standards is quite incredible. Big family homes where the children all moved out 20 years ago and those left behind obviously didn't have the funds to make any changes in that time. Major internal and external work required, BER of G, which means they're spending a big chunk of their pension warming the place up, damp and mould and shabby kitchens.

Even as a retirement investment, many people find that far from being a meal ticket, the family home becomes a prison from which they can't escape. They want to sell and buy elsewhere, but in the absence of a mortgage they're going to need a significantly smaller place they can buy in cash, that requires zero work.
Ultimately this means moving further away from family, possibly into a property which cannot accommodate having grandchildren over, or which would require far too much travel, etc. So they stay where they are and struggle through because it's the only feasible option they have.

The Spider

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

That's all well and good when you have the kind of society that protects renters like in Germany which has one of the lowest European home ownership rates.

The tax system is beneficial to landlords which increases supply. The rent increase controls are stricter (and are being pushed to be even more strict) which benefits tenants but also in line with the much higher supply is the fact that rents won't go out of control. Security of tenure is higher and minimum notice is 3 months.

Ireland isn't going to magically transform to this type of renting unless serious overhaul in the legislation allows for better renting.

I'm sick of this comparison to what Germany does, there's a mountain of reasons why Germans rent and we buy, the below link will explain it, and we have a long way to go to even come into 5% of the German mindset, so I'd make myself comfortable with the fact that in Ireland the accepted norm is ownership.

http://qz.com/167887/germany-has-one-of-the-worlds-lowest-homeownership-rates/

By the time of Germany’s unconditional surrender in May 1945, 20% of Germany’s housing stock was rubble. Some 2.25 million homes were gone. Another 2 million were damaged. A 1946 census showed an additional 5.5 million housing units were needed in what would ultimately become West Germany.

Germany’s housing wasn’t the only thing in tatters. The economy was a heap. Financing was nil and the currency was virtually worthless. (People bartered.) If Germans were going to have places to live, some sort of government program was the only way to build them.

karenalot

Bought my house at 23. Had pets, loved interior design and completely decorating to my own taste, having the odd party or ten and also heading off on very long holidays at a whim. I realised no landlord would put up with me so I got a hefty mortgage with the deposit coming from my 5 year SSIA savings.

I have no regrets but the responsibility wouldn't be for everyone at that age. I was lucky that I've always been very sensible with money, my spare rooms were always very rentable and over the years various lodgers have paid more than 60% of my mortgage and bills. Now at 32 and earning more I thankfully now have the luxury of having the house to myself and my partner.

magicmushroom

Sleepy wrote: »

The bit I've bolded is what's holding you back. Move into a house-share and you'd be far better able to put a deposit together. If you think it's difficult to save as a single, you'll never manage it with a partner & kids.

I'm in a similar situation in that my rent could easily cover a reasonable mortgage / maintenance / insurance etc. but am struggling to get a deposit together and, tbh, it's because I wasn't more careful with my money when I was single and in my twenties that I'll continue to struggle to do so for at least another 5/6 years.

Honestly - I'd rather rent for the rest of my life than house share.
NO WAY would I ever live with anyone (unless it was my partner or a family member) - I've done it in the past in my early twenties and it was as absolute nightmare, not something I'd like to repeat despite the money it would save me!

Addle

Bought at 30. Could have bought earlier but nothing in the local market suited me. Luckily for me, my house was for sale for a long time, and the price had reduced by a lot, by the time I was in a position to buy.
If I had bought earlier, my home would be in negative equity now. Not that it would matter as I hope I will be in my current home for life.

Being a single mortgage applicant is difficult.

I don't understand the concept of the 'property ladder' in Ireland, outside of the big cities anyways.

Sleepy

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I see your point myself but house-sharing in this country is typically a minefield. Renting in general is often a lottery as to whether it'll turn out ok (cause the whole sector generally isn't taken seriously by any of sides involved but rather treated as a "stepping stone" you have to "endure" on the road to ownership)

I'd agree, it was a minefield, I had some awful house-shares in my early 20s but fell into a wonderful one that lasted almost 4 years before we all moved in with other halves etc.

magicmushroom wrote: »

Honestly - I'd rather rent for the rest of my life than house share.
NO WAY would I ever live with anyone (unless it was my partner or a family member) - I've done it in the past in my early twenties and it was as absolute nightmare, not something I'd like to repeat despite the money it would save me!

I can understand where you're coming from, at 34, I wouldn't want to be out looking for flatmates again but, if I were still single, tbh, I think I'd endure it for a few years in order to get a deposit together.

Snickers Man

Snickers Man wrote: »

Forget house buying. It's not for most of us any more.

I don't know one person who doesn't intend on buying their own house or building their own house. My group of friends are all late 20's - early 30's and there has been a big push of buying and building in the group in the last year so.

I cant imagine how someone could see their future being in rental accommodation.

Snickers Man wrote: »

Owning one's own house is not the norm in Europe.

The average percentage of home ownership across europe is close to 70%, that very much makes it the norm.

Michael D Not Higgins

The Spider wrote: »

I'm sick of this comparison to what Germany does, there's a mountain of reasons why Germans rent and we buy, the below link will explain it, and we have a long way to go to even come into 5% of the German mindset, so I'd make myself comfortable with the fact that in Ireland the accepted norm is ownership.

That's my point. I know the war and several other factors have influenced their housing culture, but I was only pointing to the current pressures, laws and tax regimes that have resulted from that culture.

Of course Ireland's default is ownership when we don't have comparable systems to encourage renting.

Tarzana2

magicmushroom wrote: »

I'm 28 and I don't honestly think I will ever be able to get a mortgage.

I live alone and pay quite a high rent each month and whilst I can afford to put a bit away in the credit union for a rainy day, I could never save the amount I'd need to get a hefty deposit together.
The annoying thing is, a mortgage payment would be about the same as my rent and I've never once been even a day late with the rent in the 3 years I've been in the house.

So I could comfortably afford a mortgage, no problem at all - it's just getting the mortgage that would be impossible.

Same, it's just not going to happen for me. So I need plan for my future accordingly. I haven't quite worked that one out yet.

I'm in a relationship, we live together. Marriage isn't on the cards, not yet anyway, so it's prudent to plan for what might happen if we break up. I hate the idea of latching onto someone in order to get on the property "ladder" anyway, and I think it probably happens a fair bit in this country! People seem mad for getting together and getting some property bought.

Mr_Muffin

I have always dreamed of having my own house but i now know that i never will and it does kinda get me down at times.

I am still young but i just don't see how it will ever be viable. They are just to expensive for me. Maybe in a few years i might win the lotto or something!

hawkwind23

I dont know if I would get a mortgage now , had two and made serious cash from them but very much doubt ill get another aged 45.
Firstly employment has changed , jobs are transient now and jobs for life are gone.
Same with lifetime relationships.
So before aged 25 and starting a new family with a secure job , its a no brainer.
Now with so much change a mortgage may not suit.

Renting is so much more flexible and easy but the problem is its seriously overpriced!

It really is situation dependant , your not a failure if you dont own your own house

I guess my advice is to look 10 years ahead , if you can keep everything together you "should" get your initial costs back and some more and that beats renting, anything after that is a bonus and soon your halfway to actually owning anything

bmm

It's all a bit of a guessing game. It might take 35 years to pay a mortgage so you might die before you have it paid off versus you pay your mortgage off in 20 years and you live to age 105 ! Score!!!

MouseTail

Where is all this Council housing that posters assume they will be able to move into during their retirement. More likely they will be stuck on RA, or whatever the equivalent will be then once their savings have been exhausted, with all the accompanying insecurity and hassle.

Lau2976

I think it really depends on the person. I'm 24 and hoping to buy this year after 3 years of renting. I'm self employed so finding somewhere decent willing to take me on as a tenant can sometimes be problematic and I don't plan to move from dublin for more then a few months at a time ( as my work dictates) so having somewhere to return to other then my parents house is a big factor in it for me.

I'd probably rent for the freedom if it was logistically possible though.