Investors ruining chances for First Time Buyers - regulations?

jayjay2010

I've been outbid on 4 different properties by cash buyers.

This is very unfair and is making a lot of places out of reach financially for myself and other first time buyers.

One property I offered 8k more than the cash buyer offer but the seller wanted a fast sale so didn't even consider my offer.

I am noticing the same cash buyers at every viewing that I go to.

Is there anything in place to protect first time buyers from this?

Seems very unfair that I may be forced to rent because of this.

Dr Strange

jayjay2010 wrote: »

I've been outbid on 4 different properties by cash buyers.

This is very unfair and is making a lot of places out of reach financially for myself and other first time buyers.

One property I offered 8k more than the cash buyer offer but the seller wanted a fast sale so didn't even consider my offer.

I am noticing the same cash buyers at every viewing that I go to.

Is there anything in place to protect first time buyers from this?

Seems very unfair that I may be forced to rent because of this.

It can be frustrating alright but I don't think all cash buyers are just investors. I know plenty of people looking for a family home for themselves who have cash available either because of years of saving, parents helping out/inheritance coming in etc.

lima

Same here, every apartment I visited last year has the same type of 60+ silverheads poking around. There's nothing stopping them so would probably do the same thing but it's utterly disgusting that the govt allows this and bulk selling of apartments to US investors to the detriment of the young tax payers who weren't involved in that boom/bust thing.

You'd think though that rents would go down because of this but that doesn't seem to be happening

johnp001

jayjay2010 wrote: »

I've been outbid on 4 different properties by cash buyers.

This is very unfair and is making a lot of places out of reach financially for myself and other first time buyers.

One property I offered 8k more than the cash buyer offer but the seller wanted a fast sale so didn't even consider my offer.

I am noticing the same cash buyers at every viewing that I go to.

Is there anything in place to protect first time buyers from this?

Seems very unfair that I may be forced to rent because of this.

From today's indo:
http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/loans-at-risk-under-new-rules-as-house-prices-fall-31086892.html
Additional costs for buyers and additional uncertainty for sellers selling to mortgage buyers will mean an even greater preference for cash buyers in the future I would fear.
DIRT refund and reduced LTV requirement below a certain threshold are intended to make it easier for FTB.
These are certainly better measures than the FTB grant from back in the early 2000's which was factored into house prices immediately and just contributed the ongoing house-price inflation.

gmisk

jayjay2010 wrote: »

I've been outbid on 4 different properties by cash buyers.

This is very unfair and is making a lot of places out of reach financially for myself and other first time buyers.

One property I offered 8k more than the cash buyer offer but the seller wanted a fast sale so didn't even consider my offer.

I am noticing the same cash buyers at every viewing that I go to.

Is there anything in place to protect first time buyers from this?

Seems very unfair that I may be forced to rent because of this.

I can definitely relate to this. Bid over 5k more on a house recently but owner went with cash buyer.

CosmicSmash

lima wrote: »

You'd think though that rents would go down because of this but that doesn't seem to be happening

I would think the current rental rates are why these are being bought by investors. Nothing seems to change in this country, more should be done to penalise owners of multiple properties. The current trend will lead us down the same dark road.

P. Breathnach

lima wrote: »

Same here, every apartment I visited last year has the same type of 60+ silverheads poking around. There's nothing stopping them so would probably do the same thing but it's utterly disgusting that the govt allows this ...

So people over 60 should not be allowed buy property? They should not be allowed downsize, or relocate, or move to a property that might be better suited to their needs as they get older?

And vendors should not be allowed accept the best offer put on the table?

RainyDay

The absence of any real limit on the interest allowable as a business expense for tax purposes is a subsidy to investors. This was brought down from 100% to 75% some years back, but 75% of what? At most, they should allow interest incurred if making principal and interest payments over a reasonable period like 20 years. They shouldn't allow interest incurred through interest only deals for extended periods.

lima

P. Breathnach wrote: »

So people over 60 should not be allowed buy property? They should not be allowed downsize, or relocate, or move to a property that might be better suited to their needs as they get older?

And vendors should not be allowed accept the best offer put on the table?

In a fair, capitalist, society it should be each person out for themselves. However Ireland is not like that. On one had the country protects people who haven't paid their mortgages by not allowing repossessions while at the same time it makes it horrifically difficult for a younger person to get a foot in the door of property ownership.

There should be incentives to sell property to FTB's over Investors or people with existing property. The country is awash with wealthy old people and they are unfortunately sucking up any available property to the detriment of the young of this country. Of course idea's like that would be laughed out the door by the landlord politicians.

davo10

Some day OP you may find yourself in the position as a seller, you may be faced with a choice between an offer from a buyer who needs mortgage approval, a long wait and the high possibility of him/her pulling out, or an offer from a cash buyer who wants the deal wrapped up immediately. You will seen then which offer appeals to you most and perhaps you will understand why cash is always king.

stevedublin

P. Breathnach wrote: »

And vendors should not be allowed accept the best offer put on the table?

The OP overbid the cash buyer but the vendor still went with the cash buyer

jayjay2010

I have had to borrow additional money from a close friend just to have a bit of extra haggle room. Buy what is 1 or 2k extra to these investors? Just spare change.

If I go into rental now it will seriously affect my saving capacity.

There needs to be something put in place to stop these investors from buying everything. Having said that, I have a viewing arranged for the weekend and I got a glimpse of hope when I read this statement from the agent:

 

Please note that due to county council restrictions this property must be sold to someone in need of housing and is not suitable to be bought by an investor.

Interesting...

seamus

jayjay2010 wrote: »

Please note that due to county council restrictions this property must be sold to someone in need of housing and is not suitable to be bought by an investor.

I've seen this pop up before. It depends on the council, but this rule is basically in place for ex-council houses when the tenant buys the property from the council. When the property is being sold on, the next 2 or 3 buyers must either be family members of the original purchaser, or people buying it as their PPR.

I think this may also be the case where the property was originally bought using a council loan/grant.

P. Breathnach

stevedublin wrote: »

The OP overbid the cash buyer but the vendor still went with the cash buyer

Were I selling a property I might do the same thing on the basis that the cash buyer might be a better bet for a trouble-free completion. Would you deny me that freedom, and force me into a situation that might be uncertain?

Eugene Norman

davo10 wrote: »

Some day OP you may find yourself in the position as a seller, you may be faced with a choice between an offer from a buyer who needs mortgage approval, a long wait and the high possibility of him/her pulling out, or an offer from a cash buyer who wants the deal wrapped up immediately. You will seen then which offer appeals to you most and perhaps you will understand why cash is always king.

Of course. It's still clearly a pain for the FTB.

The real problem here is low interest rates. I doubt the silver beards want to deal with renting issues but can't make income any other way.

Another crash is inevitable when rates rise, if ever.

Eugene Norman

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Were I selling a property I might do the same thing on the basis that the cash buyer might be a better bet for a trouble-free completion. Would you deny me that freedom, and force me into a situation that might be uncertain?

That's a personal anecdote or attitude. It's up to government or society to make housing less attractive to investors and more to buyers. Building more would help

jimmycrackcorm

lima wrote:

There should be incentives to sell property to FTB's over Investors or people with existing property. The country is awash with wealthy old people and they are unfortunately sucking up any available property to the detriment of the young of this country. Of course idea's like that would be laughed out the door by tlandlordShe politicians.

I faced this dilemma when I was buying my home in the last nineties. Every time we went to view properties they were sold out by the time we got there. Then one week the Peter Bacon report was acted on and suddenly investors disappeared. The following weekend we were able buy our home.

Having said that there was a hell of a lot of building going on then unlike now and there is still a huge demand for rental properties for people who do not necessarily wish to buy so it might not be correct either to penalise investors.

The real problem of course is lack of supply whether through lack of building or the unwillingness to deal with repossessions.

by the seaside

Preusse wrote: »

It can be frustrating alright but I don't think all cash buyers are just investors. I know plenty of people looking for a family home for themselves who have cash available either because of years of saving, parents helping out/inheritance coming in etc.

I think this is an important distinction.

Cash buyers vs mortgage buyers is hard to do anything about. I am selling my house at the moment and I may decide that a cash buyer offering 2% less is a better bet.

Own home buyer vs investment / 2nd home buyer is more of a problem in my opinion. It could be tackled by increasing stamp duty on houses that will not be the buyer's main home, if there was a will to do so. It would need a bit of tweaking but it could be done, and this would allow actual home buyers to compete better.

P. Breathnach

lima wrote: »

In a fair, capitalist, society it should be each person out for themselves. However Ireland is not like that. On one had the country protects people who haven't paid their mortgages by not allowing repossessions while at the same time it makes it horrifically difficult for a younger person to get a foot in the door of property ownership.

There should be incentives to sell property to FTB's over Investors or people with existing property. The country is awash with wealthy old people and they are unfortunately sucking up any available property to the detriment of the young of this country. Of course idea's like that would be laughed out the door by the landlord politicians.

I have given you reasons why people with existing property might be seeking to purchase - to downsize, or relocate, or move to a property that might be better suited to their needs. Why should a system be devised that gives you an advantage over such people?

I viewed an apartment not long ago, and it was evident why it was being sold. It had two bedrooms, and there was little outside space with it. And it was occupied by a couple with two small children. That couple were seeking to sell so that they could move to a property more suited to their family needs. They could be trapped by your desire for incentives to favour FTBs.

Mrs OBumble

lima wrote: »

There should be incentives to sell property to FTB's over Investors or people with existing property. The country is awash with wealthy old people and they are unfortunately sucking up any available property to the detriment of the young of this country. Of course idea's like that would be laughed out the door by the landlord politicians.

Some day, you may be an older person living a large family home which you are no longer able to manage, and which no longer meets your needs. Or you may be a middle aged parent moving into a re-constituted family which will have five children in it once you and new-partner find somewhere to live together.

Do you really think you should be prevented from buying another more suitable property, just because you already have one?

by the seaside

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Some day, you may be an older person living a large family home which you are no longer able to manage, and which no longer meets your needs. Or you may be a middle aged parent moving into a re-constituted family which will have five children in it once you and new-partner find somewhere to live together.

Do you really think you should be prevented from buying another more suitable property, just because you already have one?

I think lima was not talking about downsizers but investors and 2nd property buyers. A different prospect, I think.

lima

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I have given you reasons why people with existing property might be seeking to purchase - to downsize, or relocate, or move to a property that might be better suited to their needs. Why should a system be devised that gives you an advantage over such people?

Why should the status quo be advantageous to older, wealthy people with existing properties when there is a housing crisis going on? At least level the playing field..

Graham

lima wrote: »

Why should the status quo be advantageous to older, wealthy people with existing properties when there is a housing crisis going on? At least level the playing field..

When the playing field 'is levelled' to discourage investors from buying properties, what happens to the tenants that would have otherwise rented those same investment properties? These are people that may not be as fortunate as the OP to be able to consider buying a property.

TheDriver

Its very frustrating however that's the problem with the market and supply/demand. Its an open market

Eugene Norman

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Some day, you may be an older person living a large family home which you are no longer able to manage, and which no longer meets your needs. Or you may be a middle aged parent moving into a re-constituted family which will have five children in it once you and new-partner find somewhere to live together.

Do you really think you should be prevented from buying another more suitable property, just because you already have one?

This is generally not what is happening, its investment.

Eugene Norman

Graham wrote: »

When the playing field 'is levelled' to discourage investors from buying properties, what happens to the tenants that would have otherwise rented those same investment properties? These are people that may not be as fortunate as the OP to be able to consider buying a property.

They buy them? If investors can't buy houses and there are more houses to buy for non-investors prices drop and therefore more renters can exit the rental market.

However this would assume a policy designed to reduce prices, which will never happen.

listermint

TheDriver wrote: »

Its very frustrating however that's the problem with the market and supply/demand. Its an open market

But its not an open market, The market currently favours investors.

Open market nobody really gets an advantage and cash is the king.

Eldarion

lima wrote: »

Why should the status quo be advantageous to older, wealthy people with existing properties when there is a housing crisis going on? At least level the playing field..

Sounds like you're saying that someone with more means shouldn't be allowed to outbid someone with less means for an asset they both desire.

I want to buy a new BMW 6 Series. But I want to buy it for 20k and I don't think anyone should be allowed to outbid me just because they have more means. At least level the playing field, we all have to drive after all!

lima

Eldarion wrote: »

Sounds like you're saying that someone with more means shouldn't be allowed to outbid someone with less means for an asset they both desire.

I want to buy a new BMW 6 Series. But I want to buy it for 20k and I don't think anyone should be allowed to outbid me just because they have more means. At least level the playing field, we all have to drive after all!

Yes, because cars are the same as houses.

lima

TheDriver wrote: »

Its very frustrating however that's the problem with the market and supply/demand. Its an open market

It's not an open market - the government are stopping repossessions. These properties would be a welcome supply to the market.

Eldarion

listermint wrote: »

But its not an open market, The market currently favours investors.

Open market nobody really gets an advantage and cash is the king.

Cash is king. The current market favours cash, not solely investors. Plenty of folk out there who have worked and saved for years to build up their financial status who are in a position to buy a new PPR without the need for financing. Yet somehow they should be penalised for this?