Wales - enemy no.1 ?

philstar

Have Wales replaced England as enemy numero uno??

What with the whole Gatland factor, the Phillips try, the World Cup QF defeat, the punch up at the end of last years 6N game and the sheer euphoria they seem to have when beating us e.g. final whistle of this years game.

Good ol'competitiveness with an edge?

well what do you think...

captbarnacles

Yes and have been for awhile.

Current England team and coach are mostly very decent guys especially Lancaster.

.ak

The fact that they'd knocked us twice in probably the two most important games of the past 4 years for Irish rugby makes the rivalry absolutely tasty.

Pudsy33

Absolutely, I relish beating that shower more than anyone.

thomond2006

42 seconds in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-XGWHmIVeo

accidentprone1

thomond2006 wrote: »

42 seconds in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-XGWHmIVeo

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that.


Surely with the increased influence that the TMO seemed to have in this year's tournament, that would have been carded?

Tim Robbins

accidentprone1 wrote: »

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that.


Surely with the increased influence that the TMO seemed to have in this year's tournament, that would have been carded?

Not to mention both countries are up against each other in the pro 12 as part of their day job and I am sure there are a few grudges from those games.

Buer

philstar wrote: »

Have Wales replaced England as enemy numero uno??

What with the whole Gatland factor, the Phillips try, the World Cup QF defeat, the punch up at the end of last years 6N game and the sheer euphoria they seem to have when beating us e.g. final whistle of this years game.

Good ol'competitiveness with an edge?

well what do you think...

When weren't Wales enemy number one, is what I want to know.

Irish and English rugby have always got along excellently with just the usual persecution complex brigade trying to stir things. In terms of rugby, Wales have been much bigger rivals with a real edge in the games which has bordered on bitterness in the last decade.

Going back 20 years, we were playing off in the RWC at a point when we were both brutal and games were tight and niggly (we won by a point). There was a real edge around between the sides then. From 1990 - 2000 we played 12 times, winning 7, losing 4 and drawing 1. The winning margin only ever made double digits once in that period.

It's only ramped up since.

Webbs

The Irish and Welsh seem to have followed the same path from bloody awful in late 80s, and 90s to being arguably the 2 most dominant teams in the last decade.

Its this closeness in abilities and results that has built up what is a fantastic rivalry in my opinion. Both teams got so many batterings from England for example that although there was animosity it wasnt around what happened on the pitch so much.

Its why both nations supporters are now looking at those little things that get the blood pumping, whether it be a coach, a style of play, what is said by the media etc. Your enemy No1 is usually your closest competitor

walshb

I'd take a win over Wales as opposed to a win over any of the other 4. The Welsh have that air of entitlement and arrogance about them. A 6 N has been a "success" with a win over the Welsh!;)

Sanjuro

Whatever about the team and some of the personalities involved, it's the management and Welsh media I cant stand. They're constantly whinging with this persecution complex. I'm convinced they think they're the best team in the world, and are indignant that the rest of the world doesn't agree. So yeah, winning the championship was more sweet because the Welsh didn't get it.

thebaz

I still prefer a victory against England - given there resources and sometimes arrogance - sticking one up against them , tastes sweet.
This current crop of Welsh players is excellent - should be an excellent WC , with 7 serious teams , we take France lightly at our peril , as they showed at last one , where they nearly won it

wp_rathead

I like Simon Thomas in the Welsh media.. the rest of them seem to be on the Neil Francis spectrum of journalism

shuffol

I like beating England more but I hate losing to Wales.

Webbs

Sanjuro wrote: »

Whatever about the team and some of the personalities involved, it's the management and Welsh media I cant stand. They're constantly whinging with this persecution complex. I'm convinced they think they're the best team in the world, and are indignant that the rest of the world doesn't agree. So yeah, winning the championship was more sweet because the Welsh didn't get it.

Some of the Welsh media can be an absolute pain in the hole but its welsh reporting for welsh people. Being in Ireland I see exactly the same from some of the Irish media.
In the lead up to the game against Wales this year for example it was a case from quite a few 'journos' of how many Ireland would win by and looking forward to the Scottish grand slam game.

SuprSi

I dunno, from my point of view if we hadn't won the cup at the weekend I would've liked Wales to win it. You could see how much their win over us meant to them, how much they put into that game that had they been victorious overall I wouldn't have complained.

Teferi

After we had beaten Wales on points on the weekend I was satisfied that at least if we didn't win it that Wales definitely couldn't. That sums up my feelings.

Eugene Norman

Both teams and supporters under-rate each other. For instance we think we have been a dominant team in the last decade. The Welsh disagree and think that they have been, and to a certain extent the stats on the 6 nations back them up. 3 grand slams in the 6N ( 11 over their history across all the competitions, where we have 2). I get the impression from some Welsh friends that they think we will have a momentary decade or so of glory and back to Scottish style mediocrity, while they are back to their normal superiority after a generation in the wilderness.

I like beating them more than anybody.

SaveOurLyric

No. The New Zealand is.

We can, and have been, beating everyone else.

But not the ABs. So they are our impediment to be overcome to be the number one rugby team in the world.

Get The Madigator to 12, and Hench to 13, and we have them in our sights.

Eugene Norman

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

No. The New Zealand is.

We can, and have been, beating everyone else.

But not the ABs. So they are our impediment to be overcome to be the number one rugby team in the world.

Get The Madigator to 12, and Hench to 13, and we have them in our sights.

A rivalry has to be two way tbh.

Philo Beddoe

Eugene Norman wrote: »

A rivalry has to be two way tbh.

Indeed, I think the Kiwis would react to being told that they're our number 1 rival in the same way that we'd react to being told we're Italy's.

SaveOurLyric

Philo Beddoe wrote: »

Indeed, I think the Kiwis would react to being told that they're our number 1 rival in the same way that we'd react to being told we're Italy's.

Good. Hope they are still underestimating us come October.

Eugene Norman

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Good. Hope they are still underestimating us come October.

Unless we mess up in the group stage by losing a game we won't meet them until the final*. However we have to get to the final first. I can definitely see us getting to the semis though.

* unless they mess up in the group stage which is unlikely but not impossible.

.ak

Teferi wrote: »

After we had beaten Wales on points on the weekend I was satisfied that at least if we didn't win it that Wales definitely couldn't. That sums up my feelings.

Ha, oddly enough so did I.

Strange thing is I also really like the Welsh players. They're smashing players, really skillful bunch with some absolute physical freaks on the team sheet.

But losing to them is simply a bridge too far.

errlloyd

Many on old rugby fan will tell you they like England more than Wales and Scotland. Post bloody Sunday Wales and Scotland refused to travel to Dublin, probably costing us the championship, but more importantly meaning we went more than a year without any home internationals. The fans were incredibly bitter.

England received death threats and I believe two players refused to travel, but they came to landsdowne Road, where the game was delayed because they received a 5 minute standing ovation for just walking into the pitch. We beat them, and the English captain was famously quoted later in the day "we may not be any good, but at least we show up" - which is kinda like what Mike Brown said, except a million times classier.

jaansu

I remember going to a bar after the Wales match in 2002 where we beat them 54-10.

I overheard two old lads talking, one of them asked whether you'd ever feel sorry for the Welsh after a result like that.

The other just looked at him as if he had two heads and said "NEVER, after what they did to us in the 70s, Never feel sorry for those ......" I can't finish the quote as this is a family forum.

After Ireland, Wales have the most likeable players out the 6N's teams so I disagree on hating them. I prefer to see them win over England. They would be our biggest rivals competitively though.

Bridge93

It's almost got nothing to do with the team. It's the media over there and the sense of entitlement, arrogance and outright ignorance of them that rubs people up the wrong way.
After one of the greatest days in the 6N history what was the headline on the front page of a paper? "At least we beat the champs." They're also all over twitter saying what an embarrassment Scotland were and showed no fight and handed it to Ireland. Eh lads? Did you see Italy? At least Scotland defended and tried to play, Italy did nothing.
A lot of fans have the same attitude.

.ak

Our media isn't much better, if at all...

Buer

jaansu wrote: »

I remember going to a bar after the Wales match in 2002 where we beat them 54-10.

I overheard two old lads talking, one of them asked whether you'd ever feel sorry for the Welsh after a result like that.

The other just looked at him as if he had two heads and said "NEVER, after what they did to us in the 70s, Never feel sorry for those ......" I can't finish the quote as this is a family forum.

There is an element of that but it's rare to see any longer as not too many people remember it (myself included). They cannot be held responsible for it either. Bloody Sunday took place just before the start of the tournament and there were reports of threats against any British team visiting Dublin. The embassy in Dublin 4 was burned down.

For the record, Wales and Scotland (who were in contention for the title alongside Ireland) refused to come to Dublin due to the political situation at the time. I believe both teams had a couple of active serviceman in them at the time; there was a legitimate concern that their lives were in danger if they made the trip. Ireland had already beaten England and France on the road and a Grand Slam was a real possibility with guys like WJB, Gibson and Slattery in the side.

Bridge93

.ak wrote: »

Our media isn't much better, if at all...

We can't hate ourselves though can we

And they really aren't as bad as Wales'. We have a few idiots. The welsh media almost across the board spout the same rubbish.

Teferi

.ak wrote: »

Ha, oddly enough so did I.

Strange thing is I also really like the Welsh players. They're smashing players, really skillful bunch with some absolute physical freaks on the team sheet.

But losing to them is simply a bridge too far.

I completely agree. The most likeable thing about Wales rugby is the team, it's the management, media and fans I take issue with.

.ak

Bridge93 wrote: »

We can't hate ourselves though can we

Oops, sorry about that!

Now where did I leave my pitchfork?

Bridge93

.ak wrote: »

Oops, sorry about that!

Now where did I leave my pitchfork?

We have enough hating us by the looks of twitter to turn on ourselves (not that it doesn't happen on here of course!)

typhoony

it's a good question, I heard that the irish players get on well with their welsh counterparts however I personally don't like the Edwards\Gatland bad cop\good cop team. On the other hand I have more respect for Lancaster and Robshaw and how they go about their business, in terms of playing them I always want to beat the english more than the welsh as i just think if we can beat them then a 6 nations is still on regardless of the wales game but if we lose to the english then i always feel we are going more likley to fail in winning the 6 nations, that's just my personal preference.

and a win in Paris is always special

davidfitz22

Based on the fans/ media I would have gladly have england winning over wales any day.

total former

Bridge93 wrote: »

And they really aren't as bad as Wales'. We have a few idiots. The welsh media almost across the board spout the same rubbish.

That's probably not true tbh.

No one in Ireland would take any notice of a respectful, well-written piece containing cogent arguments, because there's no fun in that. That doesn't mean they don't exist.

If a Welsh journalist compared our coach to a tub of margarine, then people would go apesh*t over it. That doesn't make it representative of anything.

daheff

captbarnacles wrote: »

Yes and have been for awhile.

.

Buer wrote: »

When weren't Wales enemy number one, is what I want to know.
.

Deleted User wrote: »

After Ireland, Wales have the most likeable players out the 6N's teams so I disagree on hating them. I prefer to see them win over England. They would be our biggest rivals competitively though.

What about the Argies....seems to be quite a bit of bad blood there too.


I suppose as an annual rivalry, the Wal v Ire game is prob one of the games of the season .....but Eng V Ire is up there too....I'd find it hard to put Wal ahead of Eng

razorblunt

I like Simon Thomas but the majority of their media have their heads up their own arses, they broke their holes laughing when we lost over there for thinking w would win yet they're happy to talk themselves up against any opposition.

Amprodude

I hate the French more than the Welsh and the Welsh more than the English. Arrogance attached to those three nations. It's great when Ireland do send them packing.

Zzippy

total former wrote: »

That's probably not true tbh.

No one in Ireland would take any notice of a respectful, well-written piece containing cogent arguments, because there's no fun in that. That doesn't mean they don't exist.

If a Welsh journalist compared our coach to a tub of margarine, then people would go apesh*t over it. That doesn't make it representative of anything.

Steady on! You're using the word "journalist" a bit loosely there!

stephen_n

According to my dad it's been that way since the 70's and the Welsh no show in Dublin, I grew up with the notion that it didn't matter who we beat or got beaten by, as long as we beat the Welsh, it was all good! Lol

penybont exile

Buer wrote: »

There is an element of that but it's rare to see any longer as not too many people remember it (myself included). They cannot be held responsible for it either. Bloody Sunday took place just before the start of the tournament and there were reports of threats against any British team visiting Dublin. The embassy in Dublin 4 was burned down.

For the record, Wales and Scotland (who were in contention for the title alongside Ireland) refused to come to Dublin due to the political situation at the time. I believe both teams had a couple of active serviceman in them at the time; there was a legitimate concern that their lives were in danger if they made the trip. Ireland had already beaten England and France on the road and a Grand Slam was a real possibility with guys like WJB, Gibson and Slattery in the side.

And for the record Wales were three from three and far more likely to prevail in any Grand Slam shake-up.

Ireland had scraped together wins against the two worst teams .......

Wales were a formidable team that year .......

Once again blurred memories blind some folk to the reality of what would have happened if Wales had played in Dublin. The oft quoted .... Wales denied us a slam by not playing in '72 always makes me laugh.

CatFromHue

Does anyone want to go up the Sugarloaf and wave our fists angrily at Wales?

Maybe even moon them too!

vapor trails

Was in Wellington for the 2011 1/4 final V Wales. Had tickets and everything booked up as far and including the final. We got beat I got locked on famous grouse ended up back in my camper van having booked a flight to India for the next evening. Couldn't travel due to visa requirements (2 weeks to process) ended up having to book a flight to Bangkok. Arrived there just as the biggest flood in the history of that country was about to strike the city. Had to be evacuated and went home.

I hate Wales forever because of this.

AbusesToilets

Like others have said, i enjoy watching their team. When they are on song, they play some of the best rugby around, a great blend of power and skill. That being said, I take immense pleasure in perusing Gwlad after a loss against us. More bitterness than a barrel of lemons

philstar

Amprodude wrote: »

I hate the French more than the Welsh and the Welsh more than the English. Arrogance attached to those three nations. It's great when Ireland do send them packing.

which in itself sounds kinda arrogant

Webbs

Amprodude wrote: »

I hate the French more than the Welsh and the Welsh more than the English. Arrogance attached to those three nations. It's great when Ireland do send them packing.

Arrogance or confidence? terrorist or freedom fighter? it depends on your view point.

As a Welsh guy I read this forum a lot and whilst it is a hell of a lot better than other forums (incl. some other Irish forums that will remain nameless) what I read on here in lead up to games is I am sure, read by most as being a perfectly confident view point in how the game will go.
I on the other hand often have a different view point and could quite easily read it as arrogant.
If you have a rivalry you will invariably see the opposition viewpoint as ridiculous, arrogant etc. just read back some of the Leinster v Munster threads over the past few years, substitute in Wales v Ireland and tell me a lot of the posts aren't arrogant one way or the other.

Its this banter that makes sport great as a spectator, especially rugby as despite it all there is a great respect for the opposition (and yes even from us Welsh towards you )

Quin_Dub

Standing in a Rugby Club bar watching Ireland beat Wales in Cardiff in 1989 with Phil Orr - Who at the time held the record for Worlds most capped prop.

I asked him what were the high points of his career - His response was "Beating Wales in Cardiff in 1985 , Beating Wales in Cardiff in 1987 and Watching Ireland beat Wales in 1989!!"

The win in 1985 was Ireland's first over there in a very long time.

This from a guy with 2 Lions tours under his belt...

Celly Smunt

Imo

France-I like them, they have a right to be arrogant and it is expected.

England-Would probably be my favourite behind Ireland in the 6 nations, hard working good rugby.

Scotland-No need to feel sorry for them,they messed themselves up

Italy- Like watching a little brother, like to see them win.

Wales- DIRTY HORRIBLE BLAH BLAH HALFPENNY ARGH BLAH BLAH.

Buer

penybont exile wrote: »

And for the record Wales were three from three and far more likely to prevail in any Grand Slam shake-up.

Ireland had scraped together wins against the two worst teams .......

Wales were a formidable team that year .......

Once again blurred memories blind some folk to the reality of what would have happened if Wales had played in Dublin. The oft quoted .... Wales denied us a slam by not playing in '72 always makes me laugh.

Possibly Wales would have won, possibly Ireland would have won. They were the two best sides on a consistent basis in that period. For the record, Wales were the better side clearly in that era but had real trouble with Ireland in Dublin. Wales didn't win in Dublin between 1964 and 1976 despite the players they had sitting among the best the game has ever seen. We don't really have a clue who would have won.

But there's absolutely no rationale behind anyone feeling sore regarding the Welsh logic for not coming over. I wouldn't expect an Irish team to travel in similar circumstances. I'd strongly hope they wouldn't, in fact.