How to finance pilot training

Schwarzenegger

As the title suggests, how does one fund flight training? Does anywhere give out loans? are there any cadet programs ? any anything ?

thanks

Johngoose

Schwarzenegger wrote: »

As the title suggests, how does one fund flight training? Does anywhere give out loans? are there any cadet programs ? any anything ?

thanks

The oldest profession in the world seems to be the only means of paying for flight training...

Schwarzenegger

Dare I ask what profession this is ?

martinsvi

I finance my training by having a job and making sacrifices, I save, I don't go out, I'm cooking my own food, I turn down the thermostat at home and so on..

I think taking a loan to finance the training is literally the most stupidest thing that one could ever do - rates are high and you will put yourself under a lot of pressure

Schwarzenegger

may I ask how long is the duration of your training gonna be when completed by doing it this way? It is a big sacrifice but rewarding i would imagine

martinsvi

Schwarzenegger wrote: »

may I ask how long is the duration of your training gonna be when completed by doing it this way? It is a big sacrifice but rewarding i would imagine

hopefully long enough for the industry to magically recover and start hiring low-hour pilots, lol

I still haven't fully decided if I want to go commercial route or stick with the GA and fly just for fun, but if I was to continue at this rate, I'd say I would be looking at couple of years. I suppose the biggest concern is not to let ratings expire - upkeep of ME/IR alone costs fortune

Schwarzenegger

after you obtain your PPL would a loan be a wise thing to do to fasttrack your career? I mean, say a 60K loan over 10 years (as if the banks would agree) but for arguments sake, that is 125e + interest a week for 10 years, so say maybe 150e/week. after a few years of flying commercial, building up hours surely your pay will rise and paying it off will be less of an issue? I am just thinking things through. It sounds preferable to part time work for a number of years waiting for a dream to be a reality.

Cessna_Pilot

Left school in 2000, worked solid for 7 years saving money. Then took a loan to top up to what I needed to go full time into the training.

Did some flying out of Weston over the 7 years when I had a spare few quid.

Schwarzenegger

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

Left school in 2000, worked solid for 7 years saving money. Then took a loan to top up to what I needed to go full time into the training.

Did some flying out of Weston over the 7 years when I had a spare few quid.

May i ask are you a full time commercial pilot now ? and if so would you recommend this route ?

martinsvi

no one will give you 60k without securing it with some sort of a property. Without mortgage, the best you can get is probably 30k for 5 years. So even if you do progress with your studies and career pretty quickly your loan has to be all paid up before the big pay cheques start coming.. a 30k loan is something you can use when you have your CPL/ATPL already and decide to pay for your type rating or something, because it looks like less and less of airlines are paying for it

martinsvi

I'm getting a feeling that for some weird reason you think that after you complete the training, you will get a secure job in the industry just like that.. It's good to be optimistic of course, but please keep in mind that many, many pilots don't get any offers from any western airlines, so they have to either move to Africa/Asia and work for peanuts to keep the ratings alive or quit the dream all together. If you happen to end up doing bush flying in Africa for the time being, you will be utterly happy not having any debts

Schwarzenegger

Very valid points, but isn't it true that no guarantee comes with every field of study? and with regards to the loan, that is a pretty big problem I'd need to overcome. Thank you for your reply

martinsvi

Schwarzenegger wrote: »

Very valid points, but isn't it true that no guarantee comes with every field of study? and with regards to the loan, that is a pretty big problem I'd need to overcome. Thank you for your reply

there are certain fields, especially in engineering and medical where you will be pretty much recruited even before you get your diploma, as long as your scores are good, and keep in mind that most likely the education will be either free or at reasonable cost.

I can't think of any other industry where one could spend 100k on training yet meeting terrible odds in actually securing a job.. maybe some MBA graduates face something similar, but they wouldn't have to cough up 100k

Schwarzenegger

I will have to do a little research on financing myself, career prospects in this field, and how bad I want this. I feel I would love this as a career, but it is high risk and not guaranteed

martinsvi

Schwarzenegger wrote: »

I will have to do a little research on financing myself, career prospects in this field, and how bad I want this. I feel I would love this as a career, but it is high risk and not guaranteed

don't let me discourage you.. your dreams are your own and don't let anyone ruin them. All I'm suggesting is - be patient, don't push yourself in financial difficulties, there really is no fast-track in this career. A lot of pilots start their careers in their 30ties, even later, so there's no need to rush

smurfjed

so say maybe 150e/week

What is the takeoff home pay for a FR F/O?

Unfortunately airlines see the right seat as a revenue earner, so while you have paid 60k for your training, i believe that you will also be expected to pay for the privilege to fly in the right seat.

jamo2oo9

Johngoose wrote: »

The oldest profession in the world seems to be the only means of paying for flight training...

Prostitution?

martinsvi

smurfjed wrote: »

What is the takeoff home pay for a FR F/O?

Unfortunately airlines see the right seat as a revenue earner, so while you have paid 60k for your training, i believe that you will also be expected to pay for the privilege to fly in the right seat.

FR don't do pay 2 fly as far as I know. FO's have to create their own LTD's and contract to agencies that then "provide" them to Ryanair. Quick google search suggest fresh FO's take home about 27k per year, which is not enough to comfortably pay 150e debt every week

Schwarzenegger

It is fair to say becoming a Pilot is not easy by the sounds of it, even before the training. But then again, no job is really easy to get into and starts off with a high salary. Working at a computer screen would be so boring IMO. The big of adventure, while most say will wear off, still sounds appealing

smurfjed

What happened to Shamrocks320 post about Ryanair ??

Schwarzenegger

What did he say?

smurfjed

As I'm subscribed to this thread, i got the posting by email, but if there is a reason that he deleted it, then i don't believe that its fair for me to quote it.

Of it the mods deleted it, then i don't want to upset them by posting it again

Schwarzenegger

I also got an email. Smurfjed what are your thoughts on the email ?

Doyler92

Sorry to bring up this thread from a few years ago but my brother is looking into a number of avenues to secure the cost of training to become a commercial pilot.

Maybe some things have changed since this thread was created so I’m wondering does anybody have any advice.

We are looking at putting the house down as collateral with a bank to secure a loan to get him through.

smurfjed

Why do you think that this would be a good idea in the present climate?

sheesh

would the air corps train you? do a couple of years with them and then go onto commercial flying or Air corps of other countries. Anyone gone down that route?

beauf

sheesh wrote: »

would the air corps train you? do a couple of years with them and then go onto commercial flying or Air corps of other countries. Anyone gone down that route?

Harder to get into the air corps than airlines.

Be interesting which airlines survive this. Airbus making unhappy noises now...

FFVII

smurfjed wrote: »

Why do you think that this would be a good idea in the present climate?

What difference does that make?

billy few mates

Doyler92 wrote: »

We are looking at putting the house down as collateral with a bank to secure a loan to get him through.

That has to be one of the craziest ideas I've ever seen or a total wind up...
Do you have any idea what the future of the airline industry is going to look like after this crisis..?
Do you have any idea of the number of highly experienced, fully type rated pilots he'll be standing behind in the jobs queue when the airlines start hiring again...?
My advice would be to wait a year and see what happens before doing anything like this but obviously you're free to do as you wish, it's your money (and house)...

beauf

FFVII wrote: »

What difference does that make?

You don't see airlines going bust as relevant?

https://www.ft.com/content/30a3a26e-674f-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3

beauf

Doyler92 wrote: »

Sorry to bring up this thread from a few years ago but my brother is looking into a number of avenues to secure the cost of training to become a commercial pilot.

Maybe some things have changed since this thread was created so I’m wondering does anybody have any advice.

We are looking at putting the house down as collateral with a bank to secure a loan to get him through.

I think if you have to have restart a five year old thread in the media of worldwide crisis as airlines go to the wall.

My advice would be NO you should not go out on a financial limb for this.

If someone wants to pursue it themselves, then sure why not. Its long hard road, but if you are committed, have the ability and lucky go for it.

Inquitus

beauf wrote: »

I think if you have to have restart a five year old thread in the media of worldwide crisis as airlines go to the wall.

My advice would be NO you should not go out on a financial limb for this.

If someone wants to pursue it themselves, then sure why not. Its long hard road, but if you are committed, have the ability and lucky go for it.

Aye, wait and see, this current environment is disastrous for Airlines and their employees, pilots and cabin crew alike, I'd wait a year and see what the "new" normal looks like before putting my house on the line.

FFVII

Are we never going to fly again??

B.A._Baracus

Interesting thread.
How would one go about starting to learn to fly?

L1011

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Interesting thread.
How would one go about starting to learn to fly?

Decide if you want to go commercial or just have a PPL.

Probably worth doing a one hour intro flight just to make sure you aren't going to freak out.

Get the medical first (or after the intro flight) if you want to go commercial - too many people find out after spending thousands that they can't.

And for commercial - just don't do it now. Existing qualified, type rated, experienced pilots will be first in line for jobs as the industry recovers. We are not going to return to planned Summer 2020 flight capacity for quite some time.

MadYaker

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Interesting thread.
How would one go about starting to learn to fly?

Step 1: wait until 2021

shaveAbullock

Having wealthy parents would have to be the biggest help wouldn't it?

MadYaker

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Having wealthy parents would have to be the biggest help wouldn't it?

I know one guy who did it, both his parents are dentists.

shaveAbullock

MadYaker wrote: »

I know one guy who did it, both his parents are dentists.

Not begrudging them but I imagine for these people the consequences are much less severe if it does not work out.

Irish Steve

Being able to get the licence is one thing, and many do it at considerable cost both financially and emotionally.

Being able to use that licence to then earn an income is another matter altogether, and with the way things are right now, very much an unknown and uncertain, under normal circumstances, getting that first paying job is a very unpredictable situation, and with the covid nightmare that's grounded so many operators now added to that loop, anyone that thinks things will recover quickly is living in cloud cookoo land.

L1011

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Having wealthy parents would have to be the biggest help wouldn't it?

The term I've been told by someone in the IAA is that the essential requirement for quick progress is a phd - Papa Has Dough.

If you have the ready cash you can bugger off someone with clement weather and get it done quite fast.

Doyler92

Doyler92 wrote: »

We are looking at putting the house down as collateral with a bank to secure a loan to get him through.

I don't know the first thing about being a pilot, but you're gonna risk your house on someone else? What if he decides he just doesn't like it or if he gets attacked on the way home from a pub some night and his vision is damaged? or the airline industry collapses leaving a massive surplus of experienced pilots fighting for feck all jobs, or he turns out to just not be good at it and can't pass any of the exams, etc. etc?



There are lots of things that seem like bad ideas.. this is one of them.

SEPT 23 1989

The way things are going he could remortgage his house and buy an airline

wally1990

I worked in an accountants that previously serviced the aviation sector for agencies such as Mcginley, Brookfield, Parc aviation, Sigma and so on

All of the cadets had loans.

Many of the cadets had parents either take loans or go guarantor on a loan the cadet took out

Genuinely speaking, in my 3 years of dealing with pilots everyday not a single 1 from speaking/emailing with them and sorting their finances had saved for it themselves.

Many of them are young and those who aren't were in the exact same position (loans)

It was all loans and very large ones at that

Depending on where they were into their trading it was anything from 30k to 150k for each person.

maestroamado

Getting the license first step which i expect be done for about 10k.
I know someone who done and the hardest thing is gaining flight hours after.
What he did was worked for free with ariel photography people.

He is now flying people like Denis O'Brien and that guy from Kingspan.
What i did not know until he told me, most people who have planes cannot fly themselves
He told me a few years ago he flew Lewis Hamilton from Spain to Heathrow for a haircut.
They did not leave secure Airport apron and while Lewis was having haircut he had coffee and snack.
He reckons that it was some electronic gadget they need for the race and all a cover.
He did not see any difference in hair....

smurfjed

FFVII wrote: »

Are we never going to fly again??

Look at the IATA reports on when they expect airlines to get back to Jan2020 levels of flights and staff. So if someone if someone is going to take a new mortgage to finance training, they must have a realistic plan to pay that loan, how will they do that without a job ?

When the jobs return, there will be w glut of pilots so what will the salaries be like ?

Doyler92

Doyler92 wrote: »

...........
We are looking at putting the house down as collateral with a bank to secure a loan to get him through.

Never put a home down as part of anything.

PinOnTheRight

Doyler92 wrote: »

Sorry to bring up this thread from a few years ago but my brother is looking into a number of avenues to secure the cost of training to become a commercial pilot.

Maybe some things have changed since this thread was created so I’m wondering does anybody have any advice.

We are looking at putting the house down as collateral with a bank to secure a loan to get him through.

Lots of questions to ask, but essentially boils down to one overarching question - can you afford to remortgage the house and repay it without any reliance on your brother?

It’s a big gamble and the industry is incredibly unstable at the minute. Nobody knows what the recovery will be like but the general consensus most seem to be now agreeing it will take several years to get back to 2019 traffic levels. It’ll also be used by the airlines as an opportunity to further attack T+Cs of pilots, and indeed everyone in the industry.

Pilot training is very expensive. Finding that first job is very difficult and with a lot of airlines, still costs you. Maintaining your licences while looking for a job is also expensive. First job salaries, even now in legacy carriers, aren’t what they used to be.

Does he have any other skills or qualifications he can use for a career? What’s alternative plan if flying doesn’t work out? Such a loan is going to place a massive burden on him and the family.

California Dreamer

This is also assuming that once you have spent the 100k on training that you get a job straight away.

You should have alternative employment and be mentally prepared that you will not get a flying job for a year and at the same time have to stay current

When you have spent all that money, you will bite someones hand off to take a 30k a year job with a commuter airline.

mikel97

If and when this crisis in the airline industry including all sorts of sectors involved, there won't be any recruitment except previous employees and forget it without experience for at least 5-7 years.( my own opinion) Hope Im way off but this is bad. Go do PPL by all means but a Commercial now.......

Inquitus

Norwegian Air - Fired all employees outside Norway
Iceland Air - Fired 95% of all Air Crew
Ryanair - Firing 3000
BA - Firing 12000

No knowing when people will be confident enough to start flying at the same levels as before COVID-19 levels, now is not the time to become a pilot.