Dublin City very run down

fire_man

Was up for parade yesterday and got red line luas. I was shocked to see so many boarded up shops from Smithfield to Jervis.place looks terrible.what can be done?

endacl

Invest and open them?

fire_man

Place should be levelled from Smithfield to Jervis I think and start again.

jimmii

fire_man wrote: »

Place should be levelled from Smithfield to Jervis I think and start again.

You could certainly build something special if you had the money to do it. Imagine being able to redesign an area like that would be a lot of architects dream!

Faith+1

Rents are way too high. Greedy f*cking landlords who want to squeeze every last shilling out of anyone wanting to set up shop. The result? Boarded up building after building.

garhjw

Faith+1 wrote: »

Rents are way too high. Greedy f*cking landlords who want to squeeze every last shilling out of anyone wanting to set up shop. The result? Boarded up building after building.

Idiotic post

Terrontress

I haven't lived in Dublin for several years, bit was at a wedding in Dublin last Friday, admittedly not near Smithfield, and I thought that the city was buzzing and looked nicer than it has done in at least 5 years. There is a confidence now which had been lacking for quite some time.

Hootanany

Faith+1 wrote: »

Rents are way too high. Greedy f*cking landlords who want to squeeze every last shilling out of anyone wanting to set up shop. The result? Boarded up building after building.

Its the Rates that kill business and get nothing for them as well.

Ole Rodrigo

fire_man wrote: »

Place should be levelled from Smithfield to Jervis I think and start again.

Really ? Why do you say that ?

hfallada

You must have not lived in Dublin in the 1990s. It was an absolute **** whole. I remember Smithfield was just abandoned ware houses and a few fruit sellers. There was literally nothing there. Most of capel street was either sex shops or unoccupied. Dublin city has never looked better in my opinion.


There is still plenty of unoccupied shops as developers of new apartment's tended to put shop on the ground floor. But they were just never let. Nearly everyone I know living in a semi-modern city apartment has unoccupied shops on the ground floor. They aren't unoccupied due to rates or rents. But due to the developers either going bust or not letting them due to other issues.

Places like phisboro are run down because a few families own most of the land/property. They aren't bothered redeveloping it and it's understandable. If it was Brooklyn, a run down neighbourhood is flatten and replaced with 8-15 storeys of modern apartments/ cafes /shops. But in Dublin the Max you will get is probably 3/4. Anything more and its over development and taisce is complaining about the skyline being ruined.

For Dublin to thrive we need to accept that 8 storeys is perfectly fine and 15 storeys in some areas shouldn't be an issue.

Faith+1

garhjw wrote: »

Idiotic post

:rolleyes: Yeah ok my son. Fantastic contribution to the thread. You obviously came top of your class. Keep it up!

January

Faith+1 wrote: »

:rolleyes: Yeah ok my son. Fantastic contribution to the thread. You obviously came top of your class. Keep it up!

Attack the post, not the poster.

Tombo2001

Bit surprised by this......there are a few derelict sites, but I am struggling to think of where the boarded up shops are?

You may well be thinking of the Fruit Markets, which open very early in the morning and close at 10am or 11am........but that's just closed, not boarded up.

Other than that......Capel St has loads of nice cafes, the area around Jervis is very busy?

There is an issue with derelict sites, there are a number of them around the city, presumably in a Nama limbo - I don't know. The most notable is on O'Connell St, and when I think about it there are more on the Northside than Southside.

However, that's to be expected, we've just come through a massive recession. As another poster said.....if you think this is bad, you should have seen the '80s.

Tombo2001

Faith+1 wrote: »

Rents are way too high. Greedy f*cking landlords who want to squeeze every last shilling out of anyone wanting to set up shop. The result? Boarded up building after building.

Tell me this. When you go into work in the morning, do you say to your boss - "you don't need to pay me so much, you're giving me way too much money".

Really don't see what the issue is with Landlords earning as much as they can from assets that they own. Nobody else does any different.

Pinch Flat

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/plans-for-historic-dublin-produce-market-finalised-1.2098817

This might be the much needed critical mass for Smithfield - would be nice to see other businesses attracted in if this flies. I'm thinking along the lines of borough market in London.

jimmii

Pinch Flat wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/plans-for-historic-dublin-produce-market-finalised-1.2098817

This might be the much needed critical mass for Smithfield - would be nice to see other businesses attracted in if this flies. I'm thinking along the lines of borough market in London.

Really excited by this. Really hope it doesn't take too long to happen I have a business in the area and it will hopefully bring a lot of people to the area. What I am looking forward to just as much is seeing what this "multi-use games area" actually is! Was getting a pin ball machine and a board of monopoly what swung it?? :pac:

Skatedude

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Tell me this. When you go into work in the morning, do you say to your boss - "you don't need to pay me so much, you're giving me way too much money".

Really don't see what the issue is with Landlords earning as much as they can from assets that they own. Nobody else does any different.

of course not. we need the money to pay for huge rents.

but i dont understand the idea of premises been left vacant for years on end, Shirley it's better to have something like lower rent on shorter leases until things improve? isnt some money coming in better then no money?

you see places like the docklands mall. beautiful place, but almost no shops occupied due to the high rents? how does that benefit anyone?

Synode

Skatedude wrote: »

you see places like the docklands mall. beautiful place, but almost no shops occupied due to the high rents? how does that benefit anyone?

It's not high rents. It's lack of adequate footfall that puts off renters

Pinch Flat

Synode wrote: »

It's not high rents. It's lack of adequate footfall that puts off renters

A lot of those tenants had rent free / very favorable rents when the DDDA ran it. There are plans afoot to change CHQ which I think will be more positive in the long run.

Ole Rodrigo

Synode wrote: »

It's not high rents. It's lack of adequate footfall that puts off renters

+1.

The answer to most of the problems in the city center is higher density living, and consequently, higher footfall for local business. Culturally, however, we still have an aversion to this..possibly because most of us still have a rural mindset.

So we'll continue to complain about inefficiencies of low density living whilst declaring a fundamental part of who we are will be lost with high density living.

Its all very Irish really.

L1011

Synode wrote: »

It's not high rents. It's lack of adequate footfall that puts off renters

The place is RAMMED at lunch times - but only lunch times. They need to build critical mass of people going in their at other times but when the only other shops are the wine shop and Copeland that won't happen.

Need to incentivise a mix of shops that do get people going to them - not CPW and Fallon & Byrne low volume businesses.

Otherwise - give up and call it a food court, adjust opening hours and letting policies, get better seating etc.

Synode

They're trying to turn it into a tech startup hub apparently

Tristram

Synode wrote: »

They're trying to turn it into a tech startup hub apparently

Any more info on this?

Pinch Flat

Tristram wrote: »

Any more info on this?

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/dogpatch-labs-move-to-chq-brings-new-business-model-1.2124623

Dogpatch already there. There's plans to develop the retail offering as well as putting a new diaspora centre / museum and additional restaurants in the vaults.

Tombo2001

I think also there was a complete misunderstanding of the clientele. When it opened, a bunch of high end clothes retailers took shops there. Most people working in the IFSC are on basic enough wages.

Roguery

Pity that Smithfield never really took off, but it has great potential.

porsche959

fire_man wrote: »

Was up for parade yesterday and got red line luas. I was shocked to see so many boarded up shops from Smithfield to Jervis.place looks terrible.what can be done?

Been like that for years.

Banjoxed

garhjw wrote: »

Idiotic post

Rents (and rates) are not too high? So, it's lazy business people then?

Subpopulus

Roguery wrote: »

Pity that Smithfield never really took off, but it has great potential.

I think Smithfield's doing fine actually. Six or seven years ago I wouldn't have said so, but since then the Lighthouse has opened up, Generator hostel moved in, there's a few more bars and cafe's after opening up and they finished off the ends of the squares. There's a lot of life in the place, and Grangegorman is bringing increasing amounts of students into the area - it's doing well.

I think a lot of the perceived failings of Smithfield, (i.e. it's emptiness and low retail vacancy) was due to lack of a clear plan as to how Smithfield was to function. The architects and planners who worked on it in the mid-nineties saw it as functioning as a Dublin version of the Piazza Navrona, which in retrospect was a naive expectation. It was never going to be rammed with people day and night. Too much retail was provided for what was a fairly low-density area which wasn't established as either a residential or shopping area, so it was always going to look windswept and empty.

The best streets and districts are the product of cumulative change, and people shouldn't have expected an overnight transformation of Smithfield to a happening urban spot. But it's developed at its own speed over the past decade or so. It's one of the few public open spaces in the city where there's a bit of space and respite from the traffic. I like sitting at the northern end on Summer evenings, when there's not much noise from traffic, watching people crossing from side to side, clip-clopping on the cobbles. Great spot.

hfallada

Banjoxed wrote: »

Rents (and rates) are not too high? So, it's lazy business people then?

Its simply there is too many cafes, bars and restaurants in the area. If you go to places like Germany. You will be shocked to discover how few bars, cafes and restaurants you found in the an area an equal size of Smithfield. Also the fact it costs 100k for a license to open a bar here alone, would put someone off opening a bar

KingBrian2

The place which I believe has a bad reputation is in fact Moore Street. Not the sort of place you walk down on a cold damp night.

Subpopulus

hfallada wrote: »

Its simply there is too many cafes, bars and restaurants in the area. If you go to places like Germany. You will be shocked to discover how few bars, cafes and restaurants you found in the an area an equal size of Smithfield.

Yeah, the planners were on the right track when specifying ground floor retail to improve streetscapes, but really it was too much of a good thing. There was massive oversupply in retail units in the boom years and now we have a terrible problem with boarded up retail units that have never been occupied. I read a wonderful statistic a few years ago, can't find it now, but the gist of it was that Ireland has a huge number of retail units per capita - even post-crash we have about twice as many shops, bars and restaurants per head of population compared to places like Luxembourg or Finland.

hfallada

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The place which I believe has a bad reputation is in fact Moore Street. Not the sort of place you walk down on a cold damp night.

Well the dodgy half is be knocked down and replaced with a shopping centre. Although there is the usual 'why do we need another lifeless shopping centre' view from some are trying to stop it. There is another lobby group trying to argue that its an important part of the 1916 rising. But so is most of the city, but there is no point saving featureless buildings with minimal importance, when we are forcing everyone to live and shop in the suburbs. I think it will be great, as shopping on the northside is horrific compared to the southside of the city. Grafton Street and the surrounding streets are great. Where as Henry Street and the surrounding streets are a bit run down.

A decent high class shopping centre will do O Connell St some good

KingBrian2

hfallada wrote: »

Well the dodgy half is be knocked down and replaced with a shopping centre. Although there is the usual 'why do we need another lifeless shopping centre' view from some are trying to stop it. There is another lobby group trying to argue that its an important part of the 1916 rising. But so is most of the city, but there is no point saving featureless buildings with minimal importance, when we are forcing everyone to live and shop in the suburbs. I think it will be great, as shopping on the northside is horrific compared to the southside of the city. Grafton Street and the surrounding streets are great. Where as Henry Street and the surrounding streets are a bit run down.

A decent high class shopping centre will do O Connell St some good

Your so wrong. Plenty of good shops on the North Side. The City Centre is the only place to shop for so many things. Over the Liffey takes time to walk to whereas on this side everything is so convenient.

Tristram

Might be in the minority but I much prefer shopping on Henry St than Grafton.

Wurzelbert

hfallada wrote: »

[...]
For Dublin to thrive we need to accept that 8 storeys is perfectly fine and 15 storeys in some areas shouldn't be an issue.

going tall is so 20th century, and that’s understood in many european cities nowadays...look at places like munich, barcelona, paris or berlin...in fact, for dublin i’d suggest removing some of the worst atrocities like the central bank or that horrible liberty hall...along with many of the abandoned ruins all over town...

A Neurotic

Wurzelbert wrote: »

going tall is so 20th century, and that’s understood in many european cities nowadays...look at places like munich, barcelona, paris or berlin...in fact, for dublin i’d suggest removing some of the worst atrocities like the central bank or that horrible liberty hall...along with many of the abandoned ruins all over town...

Liberty hall needs to come down. It is the worst.

jimmii

Wurzelbert wrote: »

going tall is so 20th century, and that’s understood in many european cities nowadays...look at places like munich, barcelona, paris or berlin...in fact, for dublin i’d suggest removing some of the worst atrocities like the central bank or that horrible liberty hall...along with many of the abandoned ruins all over town...

Funny you should post this the day after it emerges Nama plan on building a 19 storey building in Dublin 2! Definitely seems to be going against the grain a little bit as you say.

Wurzelbert

jimmii wrote: »

Funny you should post this the day after it emerges Nama plan on building a 19 storey building in Dublin 2! Definitely seems to be going against the grain a little bit as you say.

at least that’s out in the docklands and isn’t all that tall, unlike some of the megalomaniac ideas of the boom past...though if i had a say around here it wouldn’t happen...and who needs more office space anyway? likely to fall through when the current mini bubble blows...

jimmii

Wurzelbert wrote: »

at least that’s out in the docklands and isn’t all that tall, unlike some of the megalomaniac ideas of the boom past...though if i had a say around here it wouldn’t happen...and who needs more office space anyway? likely to fall through when the current mini bubble blows...

Office rents are going completely mad I guess it shows there is demand for the really good quality stuff but it really doesn't seem sustainable there are only so many billion dollar tech companies that want to rent space here at €50sqft+! There does seem to be a hell of a lot of Office space available around town but mostly seems to be the run of the mill stuff most companies aren't looking for.

Some of the ideas from back in the day were insane but I guess a lot of that was people trying to outdo each other somewhat hopefully people learnt a little from those days!

Tar.Aldarion

Tristram wrote: »

Might be in the minority but I much prefer shopping on Henry St than Grafton.

I didn't know people thought otherwise, I practically never go to Grafton!


We need to build up, it's not dense enough imo. Really need more people and more housing. There does seem to be way more homeless and beggars around too, not enough social housing either.

jimmii

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I didn't know people thought otherwise, I practically never go to Grafton!


We need to build up, it's not dense enough imo. Really need more people and more housing. There does seem to be way more homeless and beggars around too, not enough social housing either.

Given the average spend data that came out a week or so ago it seems its definitely not the minority that agree! Grafton for show Henry for dough!

A Disgrace

Wurzelbert wrote: »

at least that’s out in the docklands and isn’t all that tall, unlike some of the megalomaniac ideas of the boom past...though if i had a say around here it wouldn’t happen...and who needs more office space anyway? likely to fall through when the current mini bubble blows...

Only in Ireland would a 19 floor, 66m tall building be deemed a 'skyscraper'

Wurzelbert

A Disgrace wrote: »

Only in Ireland would a 19 floor, 66m tall building be deemed a 'skyscraper'

did anyone call it that?

Eugene Norman

Wurzelbert wrote: »

going tall is so 20th century, and that’s understood in many european cities nowadays...look at places like munich, barcelona, paris or berlin...in fact, for dublin i’d suggest removing some of the worst atrocities like the central bank or that horrible liberty hall...along with many of the abandoned ruins all over town...

You've cherry picked a few cities. Much of the world is building up.

A Disgrace

Wurzelbert wrote: »

did anyone call it that?

http://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/nama-and-us-firm-plan-19storey-skyscraper-in-central-dublin-31114652.html

jimmii

SUPERKush wrote: »

dublin has large run down parts

As does virtually every City in the world.

Wurzelbert

jimmii wrote: »

As does virtually every City in the world.

yeah, though i wouldn’t want to see dublin compared to manila, lagos or calcutta…other northern and western european capitals and major cities have to be the benchmark here, cities of roughly comparable size ideally…like stockholm, stuttgart, helsinki or düsseldorf for instance…

tricky D

SUPERKush wrote: »

dublin has large run down parts

Mod note: you have already been infracted for one post already in this forum and I've removed some of your other unhelpful answers. Please acquaint yourself with forum and site charters before posting again in this discussion forum or further sanctions will follow.

jimmii

Wurzelbert wrote: »

yeah, though i wouldn’t want to see dublin compared to manila, lagos or calcutta…other northern and western european capitals and major cities have to be the benchmark here, cities of roughly comparable size ideally…like stockholm, stuttgart, helsinki or düsseldorf for instance…

Stockholm & Stuttgart both have a much higher GDP so that also seems a bit unfair to compare. Its hard to really compare any two cities as there are always so many differences. Dublin could definitely do with a tidy up but its certainly wouldn't say it was very run down as a whole.

goochy

i am a dub who moved to cork in 2006 - while cork is not perfect its in another league to dublin. think i must have been brain washed as i can understand why cork plp are so proud now. i am also surprised how many dubs live in cork .

dublin must be one of the most run down capital cities in europe yet it is also one of the most expensive to buy/ rent in !

as said i am dublin born and bred but i dont miss seeing all the junkies and scumbags you see in dublin.

sometimes i cant believe how lucky i am to have escaped if you guys have any sense u will too

also i noticed the term ' yous/ yews' isnt common in cork - i get plenty of harmless stick over that - it can be good fun doing love hate impressions too !