Free movement proposed between the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand

Strong Life in Dublin

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/free-movement-proposed-between-canada-u-k-australia-new-zealand-1.2998105



Should citizens be free to move between Canada, U.K, Australia, New Zealand?

Menas

Why not? Their countries, their rules.

Faith+1

What about us? We're practically the British B Team?

shruikan2553

Better look into becoming a British citizen if that comes in!
*sees price of several hundred pounds*
Err, maybe they'll let Ireland in on the deal?

Cee-Jay-Cee

Cue countless Irish getting British passports

Jimoslimos

If proposing free movement between Commonwealth countries, why not India as well? Too many brown folk I'm guessing.

This is just a rehash of the White Australia Policy.

AnonoBoy

I've always said it. It's time for us to rejoin the Commonwealth!

donegaLroad

Faith+1 wrote: »

What about us? We're practically the British B Team?

you can get a UK passport if one or both of your grandparents were born before 1922. A bit of a nuisance but it would solve that problem.

Ciaran_B

Think I'd rather free movement in the EU.

Paramite Pie

Faith+1 wrote: »

What about us? We're practically the British B Team?

Independence has a price. We can't leech of the British, trying to be included in all their deals. I mean, some people got upset when there was no Dublin auditions for Britain's Got Talent!! It's in the frickin' title?!?

I know we have strong connections with the British & all, but constantly expecting to be part of everything they do, big or small will is only adding to the misconception that we're the British 'B' Team.

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Better look into becoming a British citizen if that comes in!
*sees price of several hundred pounds*
Err, maybe they'll let Ireland in on the deal?

Why? We're not Common Wealth and very few people have wanted to rejoin over the years. I'm not opposed to re-joining but it doing so just for the free-travel seems wrong.

If we want to be part of the deal, we should be proactive and ask them first, not wait around sheepishly until the notice us.:cool:

The Corinthian

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

Should citizens be free to move between Canada, U.K, Australia, New Zealand?

Seriously, these post-colonial anglophone countries are the national equivalent of a 35-year old who still goes home to his parents every weekend with his dirty laundry.

Timberrrrrrrr

The Corinthian wrote: »

Seriously, these post-colonial anglophone countries are the national equivalent of a 35-year old who still goes home to his parents every weekend with his dirty laundry.

And the people who go there to live and work are.......?

swimming in a sea

I've always thought that this would make since.

Unfortunately for Ireland we may been seen as a bit volatile in an economic sense to be included. As lack of a visa was the main reason this country didn't completely empty out in 2009\2010

Korat

Sounds like a great idea. Ireland should be included as acccess to GB defacto grants access to Ireland.

The Corinthian

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And the people who go there to live and work are.......?

Foreigners.

This entire initiative is ultimately fueled by Anglo-nostalgia. Looking back to Mother England. Terribly silly.

Timberrrrrrrr

The Corinthian wrote: »

Foreigners.

This entire initiative is ultimately fueled by Anglo-nostalgia. Looking back to Mother England. Terribly silly.

Or it's just making movement easier for citizens of the commonwealth.

dirtyden

The Corinthian wrote: »

Foreigners.

This entire initiative is ultimately fueled by Anglo-nostalgia. Looking back to Mother England. Terribly silly.

There is a similar agreement between the UK and Ireland which makes a lot of sense economically. Why would this new proposal be any different. I travel to the UK a lot with work, I must bring my dirty clothes next time.

ohnonotgmail

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Or it's just making movement easier for citizens of the commonwealth.

But its not. Its making movement easier for some citizens of the commonwealth.

The Diabolical Monocle

But they spend their lives moaning about Jonny foreigner, immigration and the EU.

c_man

The Corinthian wrote: »

Seriously, these post-colonial anglophone countries are the national equivalent of a 35-year old who still goes home to his parents every weekend with his dirty laundry.

Hey, they enjoy doing the washing I'll have you know.

Harry Palmr

So more Ockers and Poms complaining about the weather!

FURET

donegaLroad wrote: »

you can get a UK passport if one or both of your grandparents were born before 1922. A bit of a nuisance but it would solve that problem.

I've not been able to verify this. Can you provide a link?

Kiwi in IE

Brilliant idea! Bring it on. My family already have free movement in EU, NZ and AUS due to our respective citizenship statuses. I'd be delighted to have Canada added to the list. Would then pretty much include every country I would ever be likely to want to live in.

Paramite Pie

Korat wrote: »

Sounds like a great idea. Ireland should be included as acccess to GB defacto grants access to Ireland.

Why? The Common Travel Agreement is a separate policy, it does not give us access to other agreements that GB makes with other nations.

While it's possible the agreement could include citizens within the CTA, there's no obligation to include us.

Just a little Samba

Might have to cash in on the fact that the Grandmother was born and raised in Brum if this comes in, be handy to not need a visa for NZ...

Fratton Fred

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

But they spend their lives moaning about Jonny foreigner, immigration and the EU.

The Kiwis?

I doubt they care about the eu.

Kiwi in IE

The Corinthian wrote: »

Seriously, these post-colonial anglophone countries are the national equivalent of a 35-year old who still goes home to his parents every weekend with his dirty laundry.

The Corinthian wrote: »

Foreigners.

This entire initiative is ultimately fueled by Anglo-nostalgia. Looking back to Mother England. Terribly silly.

Were you declined a working visa for one or all of the countries mentioned?

Dravokivich

Korat wrote: »

Sounds like a great idea. Ireland should be included as acccess to GB defacto grants access to Ireland.

huh? Since when?

The open border between UK and Ireland is for UK and Irish citizens.

Anything the UK agrees with, with anyone outside of Europe, does not then provide for access to Ireland.

The Diabolical Monocle

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The Kiwis?

I doubt ironically care about the eu.

Nope G.Britain.

Complain endlessly about immigration.

Although ironically there's 900,000 Britons living in Spain.

catbear

The commonwealth though will never be enough, this is about common heritage that a lot of Australians, Kiwis and Canadians share with the UK and not with the other commonwealth countries.

When I was in OZ I was referred to an ex-pat whereas guys from India on the same visa were called immigrants.

Some attitudes I encountered in Australia were almost Victorian, it's like the UK moved on with Europe but no one told the colonies.

diomed

donegaLroad wrote: »

you can get a UK passport if one or both of your grandparents were born before 1922. A bit of a nuisance but it would solve that problem.

So close. My mother was born in November 1922.

Fratton Fred

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Nope G.Britain.

Complain endlessly about immigration.

Although ironically there's 900,000 Britons living in Spain.

read after hours lately

Those Islamist types are coming to get you.

Buona Fortuna

This is only a pressure group saying this though.

AFAIK There's no support or even comment from any government.

LDN_Irish

I've heard that grandparents born before 1922 thing before and found this:

"Does being born in Southern Ireland before 1922 make you a British citizen today?
Unlikely. Unless you were covered by a limited exception in the Ireland Act 1949, you would not hold any form of British nationality unless you had reclaimed British subject status on or after 1 January 1949. It is still possible to reclaim British subject status today, but this is not the same as British citizenship.
It is important to understand that Southern Ireland pre 1 April 1922 is considered by the British to be part of the United Kingdom for the purposes of determining rights under UK immigration law, but not for the purposes of obtaining British citizenship. So if you are a British subject who has been born in Southern Ireland pre 1922, or with a parent born there, then you have a ‘right of abode’ in the UK. Similarly, a Commonwealth citizen can use a grandparent born in Southern Ireland pre 1922 if he/she wants to obtain a UK immigration visa on ancestry grounds. But being born there before 1922 does not normally make you a British citizen today, nor even a British subject unless you apply to the British government to reclaim this status."

http://www.reform.org/site/2003/09/28/british-nationality-passports/

Just a little Samba

What's the deal with Grandparents born in the UK?

The Corinthian

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Or it's just making movement easier for citizens of the commonwealth.

I'd take that more seriously, were it not that it's not actually for citizens of the commonwealth, but for a few choice countries who still feel culturally attached to the UK; much more than the reverse, TBH.

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Were you declined a working visa for one or all of the countries mentioned?

No, never felt the need to apply. One of the advantages of being able to speak more than one language.

Kiwi in IE

catbear wrote: »

Some attitudes I encountered in Australia were almost Victorian, it's like the UK moved on with Europe but no one told the colonies.

I'm from the one of the 'Victorian colonies' where we have legal abortion, equal marriage, secular state funded schools, fully legally recognised defacto (co habiting) relationships, properly separate church and state, divorce has been legal since 1867, there have never been laws against contraception, we were one of the first countries in the world to have the contraceptive pill available, around 50% of the population are athiest or agnostic, we don't have a constitution with silly archaic references to "women's duties in the home" (among other archaic text in the document to which I am referring) and we were the first country in the world to allow women to vote!

Where are you from? I am guessing from your post that it can't possibly be Ireland?

IrishTrajan

Jimoslimos wrote: »

If proposing free movement between Commonwealth countries, why not India as well? Too many brown folk I'm guessing.

This is just a rehash of the White Australia Policy.

I don't think it's necessarily "Commonwealth countries", or they'd include South Africa, Nigeria, Pakistan, India et al. It's Anglosphere passes. These four countries are already inextricably linked through the Five Eyes.

But of course, the ignorant scream "racism" when something affects white people without the accompanying white guilt.

The Saint

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I don't think it's necessarily "Commonwealth countries"

If it is not necessarily about Commonwealth countries then why would the organisation advocating this be called "The Commonwealth Freedom of Movement Organization"?

Also, why would freedom of movement be based on an communications surveillance agreement and why isn't the US included in the proposal if it is indeed a contributing factor?

IrishTrajan

The Saint wrote: »

If it is not necessarily about Commonwealth countries then why would the organisation advocating this be called "The Commonwealth Freedom of Movement Organization"?

Also, why would freedom of movement be based on an communications surveillance agreement and why isn't the US included in the proposal if it is indeed a contributing factor?

I've not slept, but I'll try to explain it as I understand it:

Probably to bolster inter-anglosphere economic ties. There's 700,000+ Indian, 450,000+ Pakistani and 180,000 Nigerian nationals living in the UK. The total from Australia/Canada/New Zealand numbers only 43,000.

Because the Five Eyes is largely surveillance in nature, but highlights the political interlinks between the members, and probably because America has its own system. The Anglosphere are relatively fungible, America stands out from the others in practically every manner. Even the English they speak is different to the rest of the Anglosphere.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

sheesh

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I'm from the one of the 'Victorian colonies' where we have legal abortion, equal marriage, secular state funded schools, fully legally recognised defacto (co habiting) relationships, properly separate church and state, divorce has been legal since 1867, there have never been laws against contraception, we were one of the first countries in the world to have the contraceptive pill available, around 50% of the population are athiest or agnostic, we don't have a constitution with silly archaic references to "women's duties in the home" (among other archaic text in the document to which I am referring) and we were the first country in the world to allow women to vote!

Where are you from? I am guessing from your post that it can't possibly be Ireland?

emmm he said australia kiwi in ie

The Diabolical Monocle

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I've not slept, but I'll try to explain it as I understand it:

Probably to bolster inter-anglosphere economic ties. There's 700,000+ Indian, 450,000+ Pakistani and 180,000 Nigerian nationals living in the UK. The total from Australia/Canada/New Zealand numbers only 43,000.

Because the Five Eyes is largely surveillance in nature, but highlights the political interlinks between the members, and probably because America has its own system. The Anglosphere are relatively fungible, America stands out from the others in practically every manner. Even the English they speak is different to the rest of the Anglosphere.

go get that sleep.

The Saint

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I've not slept, but I'll try to explain it as I understand it:

Probably to bolster inter-anglosphere economic ties. There's 700,000+ Indian, 450,000+ Pakistani and 180,000 Nigerian nationals living in the UK. The total from Australia/Canada/New Zealand numbers only 43,000.

Then why not include other Commonwealth countries where English is an official language? I'm not sure what the number of immigrants from the different countries has anything to do with it. Are you suggesting that the non-anglophone Commonwealth immigrants should be balanced with anglophone ones?

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Because the Five Eyes is largely surveillance in nature, but highlights the political interlinks between the members, and probably because America has its own system. The Anglosphere are relatively fungible, America stands out from the others in practically every manner. Even the English they speak is different to the rest of the Anglosphere.

Then why base it just on a surveillance agreement (that pretty much everyone from all participating states have probably never heard of) and not on any other form of military, economic or political agreement (such as the Commonwealth of Nations)? Somehow I don't think the Five Eyes is really a contributing factor to the justification for this.

Also, Canadian English is probably closer to American English than British English.

Kiwi in IE

sheesh wrote: »

emmm he said australia kiwi in ie

catbear wrote: »

Some attitudes I encountered in Australia were almost Victorian, it's like the UK moved on with Europe but no one told the colonies.

He said 'the colonies' have not 'moved on' with Europe and the UK.

The Saint

IrishTrajan wrote: »

There's 700,000+ Indian, 450,000+ Pakistani and 180,000 Nigerian nationals living in the UK. The total from Australia/Canada/New Zealand numbers only 43,000.

I have just looked into the section above and it seems that your numbers are not correct. Using the 2012 population estimates based on the 2011 census the foreign born populations in the UK of the above countries are:

Australia: 110,000
Canada: 90,000
New Zealand: 54,000

Total: 254,000 (slightly larger than the number you cite above)

Eugene Norman

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I'm from the one of the 'Victorian colonies' where we have legal abortion, equal marriage, secular state funded schools, fully legally recognised defacto (co habiting) relationships, properly separate church and state, divorce has been legal since 1867, there have never been laws against contraception, we were one of the first countries in the world to have the contraceptive pill available, around 50% of the population are athiest or agnostic, we don't have a constitution with silly archaic references to "women's duties in the home" (among other archaic text in the document to which I am referring) and we were the first country in the world to allow women to vote!

Where are you from? I am guessing from your post that it can't possibly be Ireland?

This kind of rhethoric where you cherry pick your list needs some kind of definition as a form of logical fallacy.

Eugene Norman

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

He said 'the colonies' have not 'moved on' with Europe and the UK.

But not ireland. So you need to do that list again with backward stuff about the UK.

catbear

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

He said 'the colonies' have not 'moved on' with Europe and the UK.

In fairness NZ is very open and progressive compared to Australia. A lot of debate I've heard in Australia seems to be framed by older Australians who remember a time of unrestricted access with the UK. When the UK joined the EEC a lot of people in Australia and NZ felt betrayed, I believe NZ was particularly affected by increased tariff trade.

In Australia I heard it expressed many times that "we need more of your type", white and English speaking as there were "too many blacks".

When I told them I was leaving when my visa was up a lot of older Australians couldn't comprehend that I had to leave, "but you can't leave, you're one of us".

They're old attitudes but they're not gone yet and I feel they unfortunately frame the debate through racial rather than economic terms. The real debate should be about Canada, NZ and Australia working on free movement with the EU which includes the UK.

It would be great if it happened, I know loads of Aussies who would love access to the EU, especially now as some sectors like mining are in contraction.

mister gullible

Strong Life in Dublin wrote: »

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/free-movement-proposed-between-canada-u-k-australia-new-zealand-1.2998105



Should citizens be free to move between Canada, U.K, Australia, New Zealand?

It's none of our business...

catbear

mister gullible wrote: »

It's none of our business...

The piece mentions movement between countries that share a common heritage, mainly language. While we may not consider ourselves part of an Anglosphere we still in practical terms are. The main destinations for recent Irish emigrants have been anglosphere countries rather than countries which we have visa free access to like France and Germany.

Besides Ireland and Britain have their own common access area separate to the Schengen area and many people in Australia view Ireland as part of their "anglo-celt" heritage rather than culturally unrelated.