Armstrong to Cycle in France

HobbyMan

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2995097/Lance-Armstrong-Tour-France-circuit-Geoff-Thomas-persuades-disgraced-former-winner-ride-stages-charity.html

I'm all for it. Raising money for cancer can only be a good thing.

iano.p

PrettyBoy wrote:

Disgusting..? I don't get it? He was involved in a serious car accident 20 odd years ago - nothing deliberate about it 

Fair play anything that can raise money and more awareness to the cause is a good thing.

Inquitus

Cancer Jesus rises again.

RobFowl

Random cyclist going for a spin shocker...

godtabh

Wasn't an Irish charity considering his support? They wanted the money but not to be associated with him

iwillhtfu

godtabh wrote: »

Wasn't an Irish charity considering his support? They wanted the money but not to be associated with him

cycle ataxia got a snap of him in a shirt supporting them.

Long story short it was made a big deal of unnecessarily and then ataxia Ireland the actual charity got dragged into it also.

The entire episode was ridiculous tbh.

It's only a matter of time before Armstrong is back racing albeit taking part as I'm sure he's lost his edge either on or off the PEDs

LennoxR

Armstrong should be allowed to get on with his life now.

Yes he took drugs and yes he damaged pro cycling. Yes he can be quite an unpleasant individual. Yes it was right he was stripped of the TDF titles.

But ffs we live in a world full of war criminals, terrorists, religious fanatics, child abusers, you name it. What did Armstrong do, cheat in a bike race? Time to get over it. Plus he's in his 40s now, he won't be competing at the top level in cycling or triathlon again.

Junior

I'll just leave this here for your consideration so ..

https://twitter.com/Doctor_Hutch/status/577102234430881792

2 Wheels Good

LennoxR wrote: »

Armstrong should be allowed to get on with his life now.

Yes he took drugs and yes he damaged pro cycling. Yes he can be quite an unpleasant individual. Yes it was right he was stripped of the TDF titles.

But ffs we live in a world full of war criminals, terrorists, religious fanatics, child abusers, you name it. What did Armstrong do, cheat in a bike race? Time to get over it. Plus he's in his 40s now, he won't be competing at the top level in cycling or triathlon again.

I had the pleasure of meeting a true legend Greg Le Mond last month, you should hear what Armstrong tried to do to him and his family, not to mind all the others he tried to intimidate etc before letting him back into the public domain.

If he wants to cycle let him join his local club and cycle with them...

07Lapierre

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

If he wants to cycle let him join his local club and cycle with them...

I hope he never moves to North County Dublin so!

LennoxR

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

I had the pleasure of meeting a true legend Greg Le Mond last month, you should hear what Armstrong tried to do to him and his family, not to mind all the others he tried to intimidate etc before letting him back into the public domain.

If he wants to cycle let him join his local club and cycle with them...

I know. That was very low what he did to Lemond. But I still think he's had his punishment and should now be allowed to get on with his life.

It's not like he killed anyone.

Hi Ho

LennoxR wrote: »

It's not like he killed anyone.

True, but he did vindictively destroy the professional lives and reputations of decent people.
He also exploited cancer as a cover for his corruption

FISMA

godtabh wrote: »

Wasn't an Irish charity considering his support? They wanted the money but not to be associated with him

That's true of Ireland and Americans in general...

desertcircus

In a properly functioning justice system, Armstrong would be facing jail time. You don't get to do what he did and then waltz back a year or two later as though you've served your penance. What he did to LeMond alone should make him a permanent pariah in cycling.

12 sprocket

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

I had the pleasure of meeting a true legend Greg Le Mond last month, you should hear what Armstrong tried to do to him and his family, not to mind all the others he tried to intimidate etc before letting him back into the public domain.

If he wants to cycle let him join his local club and cycle with them...

Did you read the article that the original poster linked to? The organiser gives his reasons why he is doing it.. Seems like Armstrongs book helped him during his own ongoing battle with cancer..

So it looks like, whether some people like it or not and want to accept it Armstrong has helped a lot of people who were in very difficult circumstances.. So say if you were to weigh it all up... The good and the bad a person has done. were would Armstrong sit? How many people credit him with helping them during the most difficult time of their lives when battlng cancer.

And if we can all keep an open mind. Apart from him being a bit of a bolox by times, he wasn't doing much different than many others during that time according to the CIRC report. See below


The report reads: “There is inequality also in relation to sanctions. It is true that there is a striking difference when looking at the period of ineligibility of the sanction against Lance Armstrong and certain riders that have testified against him. The range goes from 6 months up to a lifetime ban. CIRC is of the view that this difference in treatment can hardly be justified by looking at the gravity and/or seriousness of the ADRVs in question.275 It appears to the CIRC that the doping practices of Lance Armstrong were not any different to those of many other riders. CIRC has had the opportunity to interview a lot of other riders and team personnel who have confirmed that the peloton was for a long time doping infested and that more or less identical doping practices were adopted throughout the peloton.”

“All of this is of course no excuse or justification for Lance Armstrong’s behaviour and there cannot be a shadow of a doubt that such behaviour warrants a harsh sanction. However, equal treatment is a fundamental principle on which the fight against doping and its acceptance by all stakeholders is based. At the end of the day, the difference in treatment can only be justified by the fact that some of the riders, contrary to others, chose to break the omerta.”

desertcircus

Doing what Armstrong did to LeMond was not "being a bit of a bolox". He responded to LeMond's public doubts regarding Armstrong's status by getting Trek to threaten to shut down LeMond Cycles and forcing him to make a public apology. That's vicious, sociopathic behaviour.

nak

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

I had the pleasure of meeting a true legend Greg Le Mond last month, you should hear what Armstrong tried to do to him and his family, not to mind all the others he tried to intimidate etc before letting him back into the public domain.

If he wants to cycle let him join his local club and cycle with them...

What Floyd Landis did to Greg Lemond was terrible too, but no one seems to want him to be jailed/banned from cycling for life etc.

Hermy

nak wrote: »

What Floyd Landis did to Greg Lemond was terrible too, but no one seems to want him to be jailed/banned from cycling for life etc.

What was that now?

nak

Hermy wrote: »

What was that now?

Lemond told Landis in confidence that he was abused as a child, Lemond was to testify at Landis' doping hearing and received a threatening phonecall from Landis' business manager (it was meant to be an anoymous call, but the number was traced) the night before the hearing refering to the abuse.

and let's not forget the Floyd Fairness Fund.

Hermy

nak wrote: »

Lemond told Landis in confidence that he was abused as a child, Lemond was to testify at Landis' doping hearing and received a threatening phonecall from Landis' business manager (it was meant to be an anoymous call, but the number was traced) the night before the hearing refering to the abuse.

and let's not forget the Floyd Fairness Fund.

To the best of my knowledge that happened without Floyd's consent and the business manager was immediately sacked when it came out in the hearing.

nak

Hermy wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge that happened without Floyd's consent and the business manager was immediately sacked when it came out in the hearing.

Well we won't know that truth on that one, but he did break Lemond's confidence by telling his manager in the first place. It was a private call after all.

12 sprocket

Hermy wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge that happened without Floyd's consent and the business manager was immediately sacked when it came out in the hearing.

Hermy do you believe in the Tooth Fairy as well?

Hermy

12 sprocket wrote: »

Hermy do you believe in the Tooth Fairy as well?

Maybe I am being naive but describing Armstrong as a bit of a bo!!ox is equally so in my humble.

He built an empire around a cock and bull story about cancer and in doing so he destroyed a sport, peoples reputations and the hopes of many, many cancer patients.
No other cyclist did what he did despite the refrain - he was only doing what everybody else was doing.
And even if everyone else was at it - which they weren't - why should that in anyway negate the punishment or vilification he has received.
He's not repentant, he's only sorry he got caught, and if given the chance he'd do it all again in a heartbeat.
But sure why not - it's all for cancer.
And if a few decent people have their reputations destroyed or their aspirations as a pro cyclist ruined or their hopes as a cancer patient shat on who gives a flying fnck!
Cause Lance is awesome, right???

12 sprocket

Hermy wrote: »

Maybe I am being naive but describing Armstrong as a bit of a bo!!ox is equally so in my humble.

He built an empire around a cock and bull story about cancer and in doing so he destroyed a sport, peoples reputations and the hopes of many, many cancer patients.
No other cyclist did what he did despite the refrain - he was only doing what everybody else was doing.
And even if everyone else was at it - which they weren't - why should that in anyway negate the punishment or vilification he has received.
He's not repentant, he's only sorry he got caught, and if given the chance he'd do it all again in a heartbeat.
But sure why not - it's all for cancer.
And if a few decent people have their reputations destroyed or their aspirations as a pro cyclist ruined or their hopes as a cancer patient shat on who gives a flying fnck!
Cause Lance is awesome, right???

THe cancer story is no cock and bull story.. he had cancer and was seriously ill. He came back to an extremely difficult sport and I have to say leaving all the other stuff aside without minimising or excusing it, I for one would have no difficulty in saying that I admire that kind of Courage.

Could you just take a step back put yourself into his place, getting that news and what it might do to you?

cjt156

His comeback from cancer is impressive. But to (mis)quote Paul Kimmage; he doesn't have a monopoly on cancer. Surviving cancer doesn't make you a good person either.

It was his monstrous ego that sought to destroy anyone who didn't buy into the mythology. And it succeeded for a long time, with collusion from those who should have seen through the lie. This is what leaves the bitterness in most people's mouth, IMO.

To me it looks like this is also what pushes him back into the spotlight; I beat cancer, I can beat the doping scandal too.

Red Belly

I think if most people are honest, they would have to admit, that if they were young, talented, working hard to realise their dreams as a pro cyclist but just coming up short, and seeing loads of others using PEDs to realise THEIR dreams, they would at least be very tempted to take the drugs, and find all kind of rationalisations and justifications for it.

That wouldn't make it right of course, but I have to honestly admit, if I had the potential to be a pro sportsman but the little extra EPO etc could give me was all that was missing, I, in my twenties would have been very tempted. I'd like to think I'd have done the right thing but I just don't know that I would have.

However, I DO know, that I would not have been capable of treating people the way Armstrong did, especially while lying about what they were telling the truth about. The way he bullied and intimidated and ruined people is what I dislike most about Armstrong. I could probably find it in my heart to forgive him being a drug cheat, but not the rest of it. And of course, the being a drug cheat thing, stole careers and glory and success and contracts and money, from countless decent riders/human beings who had the moral courage not to cheat when given the opportunity. They're the guys I really admire, the talented sportsmen who walked away rather than cheat their way to success. We'll never know who they are because they're insurance salesmen, teachers, mechanics, whatever: but they're the ones we should all admire most. IMO.

rb

Hermy

12 sprocket wrote: »

THe cancer story is no cock and bull story...

The diagnosis wasn't but the story was complete cock and bull.
It was his ticket to untouchability.
Do you not remember his defence? A guy who comes back from a death sentence - why would I then enter into a sport and dope myself up and risk my life again? or something like that.
Except that's exactly what he did. The minute the cancer treatment was complete he was off on a plane to Italy to have another chat with Michele about doing drugs.
Meantime he's telling all his 'cancer survivors' to keep on fighting the good fight.

And for what it's worth, if I was in his shoes and got that news, no, I wouldn't go off to the juice doctor and get juiced up, just in case it might bring the cancer back.

2 Wheels Good

12 sprocket wrote: »

Did you read the article that the original poster linked to? The organiser gives his reasons why he is doing it.. Seems like Armstrongs book helped him during his own ongoing battle with cancer..

So it looks like, whether some people like it or not and want to accept it Armstrong has helped a lot of people who were in very difficult circumstances.. So say if you were to weigh it all up... The good and the bad a person has done. were would Armstrong sit? How many people credit him with helping them during the most difficult time of their lives when battlng cancer.

And if we can all keep an open mind. Apart from him being a bit of a bolox by times, he wasn't doing much different than many others during that time according to the CIRC report. See below


The report reads: “There is inequality also in relation to sanctions. It is true that there is a striking difference when looking at the period of ineligibility of the sanction against Lance Armstrong and certain riders that have testified against him. The range goes from 6 months up to a lifetime ban. CIRC is of the view that this difference in treatment can hardly be justified by looking at the gravity and/or seriousness of the ADRVs in question.275 It appears to the CIRC that the doping practices of Lance Armstrong were not any different to those of many other riders. CIRC has had the opportunity to interview a lot of other riders and team personnel who have confirmed that the peloton was for a long time doping infested and that more or less identical doping practices were adopted throughout the peloton.”

“All of this is of course no excuse or justification for Lance Armstrong’s behaviour and there cannot be a shadow of a doubt that such behaviour warrants a harsh sanction. However, equal treatment is a fundamental principle on which the fight against doping and its acceptance by all stakeholders is based. At the end of the day, the difference in treatment can only be justified by the fact that some of the riders, contrary to others, chose to break the omerta.”

12 sprocket, you seem to have blinkers on for Lance, I've looked at this with a very open mind, mine like many families was also hit by cancer. Lance, (possibly using a self inflicted cancer from using peds) exploited cancer as a front to his relentless drive to fill his ego by cheating his way to the top. Yes, plenty others did similar, but he was the one who went out of his way to destroy any cyclist (current or past (Le Mond), journalist etc who spoke out against him. Ask those people if he inspired them as they faced ruin!
If he had come back from cancer and made it to the tour and finished last, I would of had the greatest respect for him but the way he did it is bs really.
Cycling needs to be cleaned up, a lot of sport does really, but can it do without people like him, even for charity rides, yes!

Kevin McCloud

All this anamosity for lance when their are so many others are on the juice also.

diomed

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

All this anamosity for lance when their are so many others are on the juice also.

Yes, perhaps 95% of professional cyclists are using assistance.
What set Lance Armstrong apart was his behaviour towards people.

People might recognise these traits

Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Emotionally shallow
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

baldbear

Using cancer to gain some positive publicity is not classy.

Puggy

07Lapierre wrote: »

I hope he never moves to North County Dublin so!

Which group do you think he'd be interested in joining? I heard he was moving to Balrothery (spelling?).

Grandpa Hassan

A nasty nasty human trying to absolve himself. Wish he'd just disappear into obscurity. Fat chance of that

12 sprocket

Travis says yes let him ride!
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/other-sports/anti-doping-chief-travis-tygart-says-let-lance-armstrong-ride-tour-de-france-route-for-charity-318908.html

07Lapierre

12 sprocket wrote: »

Travis says yes let him ride!
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/other-sports/anti-doping-chief-travis-tygart-says-let-lance-armstrong-ride-tour-de-france-route-for-charity-318908.html

He can't stop him! It's a charity event

average_runner

07Lapierre wrote: »

He can't stop him! It's a charity event

To be honest, why would u want to be associated with a cheat?

Maybe they should get Russian athletes and Tyson gay to go with them also.

Hermy

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

All this anamosity for lance when their are so many others are on the juice also.

Oh, don't worry - I dislike all cheats equally.
Just that some cheats are more equal than others!

Grandpa Hassan

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

All this anamosity for lance when their are so many others are on the juice also.

It's not about the juice. It's about his bullying behaviour and his destruction of people's careers

Leroy42

The OP was about whether he should cycle in France. He was a drugs cheat, a horrible, vindictive person.

But, as the OP says, he has been banned from competition of any kind so what else should be done? If he is found guilty of ciminal offence then let him face a jury and jail time. If not, then he is free to go off and do whatever he wants.

I don't like it, but are we eally saying that he should live in a cave from now on.

The best thing is to simply ignore him. So he wants to cycle ahead of the tour. So what? Thousands of cyclists are cycling in France every day and nobody hears anything about it. Thousands will be doing Etape/Marmotte and plenty of other events in the Alps, many of them for charity.

If his 'profile' helps a charity realise additional funds then great, otherwise I see no harm in it.

Ole Rodrigo

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

It's not about the juice. It's about his bullying behaviour and his destruction of people's careers

This is a flimsy reason for punishment. Being an asshole and threatening peoples careers is part and parcel of rising through the ranks of corporate america. It doesn't make it pleasant, but it is what it is, and it is indirectly encouraged.

You cant punish someone without mercy for being an asshole, in good conscience. We get the sports heroes we deserve.

ford2600

Ole Rodrigo wrote: »

. We get the sports heroes we deserve.

I'm too long watching professional sports to get excited or upset about them. Give me
*Young Munsters v Shannon
* GAA club championship
* Healy Pass watching Ras Mumhnan
over professional sport any day of the week.

It's more or less the same thing just without the hype, bullsh1t, analysis and some endless noise on the PA system!

diomed

Ole Rodrigo wrote: »

This is a flimsy reason for punishment. Being an asshole and threatening peoples careers is part and parcel of rising through the ranks of corporate america. It doesn't make it pleasant, but it is what it is, and it is indirectly encouraged.

You cant punish someone without mercy for being an asshole, in good conscience. We get the sports heroes we deserve.

Good analogy. Lane Armstrong in cycling; Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling in Enron.
The result was destruction of other people's lives and assets.

2 Wheels Good

UCI president Brian Cookson says Lance Armstrong's planned participation in Geoff Thomas Tour de France charity ride this summer is "inappropriate and disrespectful" road.cc

RobFowl

ford2600 wrote: »

I'm too long watching professional sports to get excited or upset about them. Give me
*Young Munsters v Shannon
* GAA club championship
* Healy Pass watching Ras Mumhnan
over professional sport any day of the week.

It's more or less the same thing just without the hype, bullsh1t, analysis and some endless noise on the PA system!

All the research and evidence suggests that doping is far more endemic in amateur sport rather than professional or elite level.

RobFowl

And to paraphrase monty python he's not the antichrist he's a very naughty boy ....

diomed

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lance+armstrong&defid=6910710

07Lapierre

average_runner wrote: »

To be honest, why would u want to be associated with a cheat?

Maybe they should get Russian athletes and Tyson gay to go with them also.

+1 why any charity would want him is bizzare. But it does show that he still has some appeal

The lazy rat

LennoxR wrote: »

Armstrong should be allowed to get on with his life now.

Yes he took drugs and yes he damaged pro cycling. Yes he can be quite an unpleasant individual. Yes it was right he was stripped of the TDF titles.

But ffs we live in a world full of war criminals, terrorists, religious fanatics, child abusers, you name it. What did Armstrong do, cheat in a bike race? Time to get over it. Plus he's in his 40s now, he won't be competing at the top level in cycling or triathlon again.

He's a lowlife and the greatest cheat of all time imo. He should constantly be reminded of this.

el tel

Isn't doping a criminal offence in France since 2008?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/04/news/road/france-toughens-anti-doping-laws_75622

I haven't heard of anyone being busted for it and doing time, but it they could get some evidence of LA doing the juice in the 2009 TdeF then I'd like to see him met at the airport by Clouseau next time he arrives there.

Hi Ho

Leroy42 wrote: »

...He was a drugs cheat, a horrible, vindictive person.... If his 'profile' helps a charity realise additional funds then great, otherwise I see no harm in it.

Is there not a contradiction here? I wouldn't support a charity that uses him - I think it would ask questions about the judgement and values of the charity. Maybe that's not fair, but it's how I feel.

ThisRegard

Roche senior will be on Newstalk in around 5/10 minutes on this.