contract rearing

milkprofit

Anyone do it in last few years
How did it go

Base price

I too would be interested on hearing from farmers who have experience with contract rearing. I have looked at Tegasc but there is little information other that the initial contract.
I would be interested in rearing dairy calves/heifers on our set up.

ellewood

Base price wrote: »

I too would be interested on hearing from farmers who have experience with contract rearing. I have looked at Tegasc but there is little information other that the initial contract.
I would be interested in rearing dairy calves/heifers on our set up.

done a small bit last year and going doing another bit this year v straight forward system ya wont get rich quick:-)
. but if ya find another farmer ya can work with its a fairly straight forward system

Base price

ellewood wrote: »

done a small bit last year and going doing another bit this year v straight forward system ya wont get rich quick:-)
. but if ya find another farmer ya can work with its a fairly straight forward system

How does is work if you retain a couple of cattle/cows with calves on foot in our herd number visa via the other herd number. We don't want to comprise either operation.
If we go down this route then I want it to work out for both parties, otherwise there is no gain for either party.

ellewood

Base price wrote: »

How does is work if you retain a couple of cattle/cows with calves on foot in our herd number visa via the other herd number. We don't want to comprise either operation.
If we go down this route then I want it to work out for both parties, otherwise there is no gain for either party.

Big +1 on it working for both parties if not ya may as well stay at what ur at


I have my own stock here as well in the 1 herd no. but they never meet - 2 farms

sh1tstirrer

At the current rental prices you would make more profit without the hassle of rearing another mans stock. Tax free as well.

C0N0R

Base price wrote: »

How does is work if you retain a couple of cattle/cows with calves on foot in our herd number visa via the other herd number. We don't want to comprise either operation.
If we go down this route then I want it to work out for both parties, otherwise there is no gain for either party.

Works fine until there is a TB issue then both herds would be closed up but allowed to transfer between them afaik. Depending on whether you were a closed herd would depend on how happy a prospective farmer would be to I imagine. What numbers are you thinking of and for how long would you be looking to rear them? Ie weaned to winter before calving or what?

Base price

Not sure to be honest. Was talking briefly about it to a dairy farmer friend a couple of weeks ago. Iam due to collect 2 cows from him during the week and will have a more detailed chat with him.

BnB

Dug up this old(ish) thread rather than start a new one.

I am thinking that contract calf rearing might suit my current setup.

I am managing about 40 acres of decent land around the yard. Another 20 acres of decent land not connected but only about 1/2 mile away and about another 20 acres of mountain. The farm isn't my own - It's my mothers and I am doing the work for her. I'm working full time myself.

We would have been dairy farmers back in the day but are out of that now nearly 15 years and I couldn't really claim to have any experience in it. We got out of sucklers at the start of this year and only have dry stock now.

My Mother worries most about money and I think this may suit us for two reasons:
1) It would give her a regular income.
2) She wouldn't have any big out lays for re-stocking dry stock when we sell. Her only big outlay during the year (that I can see) would be for cutting silage, spreading slurry and buying some fertilizer.

I just have a few specific questions:

Firstly, what is the going rate for this at the minute. I saw the figure of €1 per animal per day. This seems very low. Might not be too bad for calves in their first year but wouldn't be great for yearlings.

Secondly, if you were keeping them until 24 months, how is getting the heifer in calf usually handled. Would the dairy farmer supply a bull to run with them or would the fella that is rearing them have to manage in via AI ?

Finally, is there much demand for this as a service. I had a quick look on the classifieds and I didn't come accross any Ads from farmers looking for it. (Although, it's possibly not the time of the year that they would go looking.)

I'd appreciate any experiences or thoughts from posters.

Carrigogunnell

Took over the farm this yr no money or cattle so got a guy on board to take on dairy heifers. Getting €1 a day they came as yearlings middle of March hoping to hold onto them til November. Fine system quite cattle suits both parties. He is a neighbour of mine so we're getting on the finest get paid either monthly or even 2 months.

Timmaay

The biggest single thing would be grassland management, you can't get away with just set stocking 60heifers etc, you will some sort of paddock system, and be able to keep high quality grass in front of the heifers, to produce the most profitably live weight gain. What's the current setup with the land, what sort of drystock do you have, what SR are you running? In terms of demand, your best bet would be to ask your local teagasc dairy adviser, he would be able to put you in touch with interested dairy farmers, however I'd say before you do this go and visit some current contract rearer, see their setup and get any tips off them. In terms of the cost, 1euro does sound too low, I don't really know the going rate. In terms of getting them incalf, often whats done is the dairyfarmer brings them home, AIs them using synchronized AI over say 10days, and sends them all back with a bull running with them. If you do not have the time or skill to check for heats say 3 times a day for those 10days the dairyfarmer would be very naive to expect you to do it. A viable enough alternative would be he would let 1 or 2 high EBI breeding bulls run with the heifers and don't bother with AI.

Carrigogunnell

Timmaay wrote: »

The biggest single thing would be grassland management, you can't get away with just set stocking 60heifers etc, you will some sort of paddock system, and be able to keep high quality grass in front of the heifers, to produce the most profitably live weight gain. What's the current setup with the land, what sort of drystock do you have, what SR are you running? In terms of demand, your best bet would be to ask your local teagasc dairy adviser, he would be able to put you in touch with interested dairy farmers, however I'd say before you do this go and visit some current contract rearer, see their setup and get any tips off them. In terms of the cost, 1euro does sound too low, I don't really know the going rate. In terms of getting them incalf, often whats done is the dairyfarmer brings them home, AIs them using synchronized AI over say 10days, and sends them all back with a bull running with them. If you do not have the time or skill to check for heats say 3 times a day for those 10days the dairyfarmer would be very naive to expect you to do it. A viable enough alternative would be he would let 1 or 2 high EBI breeding bulls run with the heifers and don't bother with AI.

I've 60 acres keeping 45 heifers and cut about 200 bales to I spread very little fertiliser so expenses are low €1 a day is on the small side but it got me started running with a bull so no heat detection and no weigh target bonus. at least I know what's coming in every month and can plan ahead. It may work for some and not for other.

Miname

1euro a day missing the winter and no heat detection for a lad starting. I'd say it won't make him up but it's not bad.

BnB

This is an article from the examiner. It's 12 months old but I thought it was good.

It mentions the figures below as the costs (meal, vets, labour, everything) to a dairy farmer of raising a dairy heifer.

* calf rearing (from drop calf to three months), €2 per day;

* calf grazing, €0.80 per day;

* weanling winter, €1.80 per day;

* yearling grazing, €1.05 per day;

* and in-calf heifer winter, €2.10 per day.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/dairy/working-together-to-make-the-most-of-contract-rearing-288499.html

Quick question on that - When we were milking 15 years ago, all our calves were bucket fed cows milk. I presume dairy farmers still do the same, or is it powdered milk that they give them ?

Carrigogunnell

Miname wrote: »

1euro a day missing the winter and no heat detection for a lad starting. I'd say it won't make him up but it's not bad.

I happy enough with that to be honest u won't be rich but still I'm doing ok doing b +b for the winter then it all adds up.

BnB

Carrigogunnell wrote: »

I happy enough with that to be honest u won't be rich but still I'm doing ok doing b +b for the winter then it all adds up.

What do you mean by "B+B" for the winter.....?

Carrigogunnell

BnB wrote: »

What do you mean by "B+B" for the winter.....?

Bringing in cattle from another herd and feeding them for the winter.

BnB

Carrigogunnell wrote: »

Bringing in cattle from another herd and feeding them for the winter.

I thought as much, but didn't want to presume.

So the 200 bales that you cut are not for the heifers. You're feeding them to different cattle.

If that's the case then the €1 a day doesn't sound too bad at all. As you said, your costs are very low. You have the cost of making your Silage, but that's not anything to do with these heifers.

You said that you took yearlings this year in March. Do you think you will move on this year to taking some calves from him too and possibly holding onto them next Winter ?

Sorry for all the questions, but it is great to find someone who is actually doing it and I really appreciate the info.

Carrigogunnell

i don't tink il take his calves there is a lot of work in them for what money il probably get nd I definately won't winter them Wel not for a €1 a day anyway. I was getting .70 a day for suckler cows last yr not providing silage any silage I did provide I got €23 per bale fed out now I have my own baler so the price of the silage making is slightly less. My land is in 2 blocks so was thinking mayb next yr try and keep the heifers in 1 thirty spread fert and buy and rear a few calves in the thirty not really too sure yet

Milked out

I see in the journal there the land mobility service have a page with adds for this kind of thing. May be no harm to ring and talk to them and you'll c what it's like then

Corkfarmer

Just said I'd bring this up again as I've been looking into doing a bit of contract rearing. Is there much interest in it from dairy farmers and what kind of rate would they be willing to pay? I was doing the sums and to keep a calf from when off milk to a month before calving I'd be thinking I'd need €1.30+ per day to make it worthwhile.

Greengrass1

Corkfarmer wrote: »

Just said I'd bring this up again as I've been looking into doing a bit of contract rearing. Is there much interest in it from dairy farmers and what kind of rate would they be willing to pay? I was doing the sums and to keep a calf from when off milk to a month before calving I'd be thinking I'd need €1.30+ per day to make it worthwhile.

Depending how this yr pans out for us we might be in the situation of looking to go contract rearing in '17. It depends if I can renew a lease on an out block to reseed it and if we up grade the yard here.
I'd be talking 40+ yearlings and we'll over 50 calves

Corkfarmer

The way I was looking at it if a Dairy farmer had to rent ground for heifers it would cost them the following;
For example 50 maidens and 50 calves rent 50 acres @€;200 per acre= €10000
Fertiliser €10000
Contractor for silage (30 acres x €120) €3600
Vet and dosing €50 per head €2500
Meal €100 each €5000
That gives a total of €31,100 or €622 per heifer

Paying €1.30 per day for 600 days = €39000 or €780 per heifer

I think contract rearing is great value at that leaving only €7900 for labour and all the other costs like reseeding fencing insurance etc.

djmc

How does it work over the winter as in who pays for silage and ration and is it still 1.30 a day

rangler1

djmc wrote: »

How does it work over the winter as in who pays for silage and ration and is it still 1.30 a day

You have to provide everything and some want them AI'd as well. Iknow someone doing it for 1.20 and he reckons he's made a mistake.
Contributors on here, some that are gone, were saying 1-50,

djmc

I know of a man who keeps them from the end of March to end of October and is happy enough he has no slatted shed.
Keeping over the winter at that and supplying feed you would be at nothing
I would have thought b&b rates would have been higher if host farmer was supplying feed.
In other contract rearing operations pigs,poultry the feed is supplied.

trixi2011

djmc wrote: »

How does it work over the winter as in who pays for silage and ration and is it still 1.30 a day

Ive a batch away at a contract rearers for winter paying a £1 sterling a day for 10 month old calves will be between 70-80p a day at grass. I supplie all doeses and will be setting fences once they go to grass.

Corkfarmer

Ya I suppose the winter would be the killer as far as costs go at 1.30 a day. Would 1.50 a day for the winter period cover the cost?

Carrigogunnell

Was talking to a guy recently who was doing it for 1.30 a day come at 10 days old leave within a week of calving. He is in very good land they only came in a week before Christmas so its a short winter. Farmer supplied milk powder meal doses vaccinations etc. I think he is doing well he spread no fertiliser and even sold silage ground. Maybe a lot of it is what kind of a farmer you get on board.

ellewood

Corkfarmer wrote: »

Ya I suppose the winter would be the killer as far as costs go at 1.30 a day. Would 1.50 a day for the winter period cover the cost?

Yearlings here at mo are costing E1.45/day just to feed and bed.

ellewood

djmc wrote: »

How does it work over the winter as in who pays for silage and ration and is it still 1.30 a day

Its 1.30/day averaged over maybe 18/19 months of having them so some days the 1.30 seems cheap but those heifers in march will only be costing u .6 or .7/day and u still get the 1.30

djmc

Corkfarmer wrote: »

Ya I suppose the winter would be the killer as far as costs go at 1.30 a day. Would 1.50 a day for the winter period cover the cost?

I suppose it depends on your land type and length of winter
Here a winter would be usually 5 months during which a heifer would eat 7 bales each.
7 x 20 = 140 if you can have bales in yard for 20 euro including fertilizer making and drawing in. 150 days at 1.50 a day is 225.
Then there are other hidden costs like diesel machinery repairs esb bad weather poor silage etc.
It can vary a lot from farm to farm.

trixi2011

Carrigogunnell wrote: »

Was talking to a guy recently who was doing it for 1.30 a day come at 10 days old leave within a week of calving. He is in very good land they only came in a week before Christmas so its a short winter. Farmer supplied milk powder meal doses vaccinations etc. I think he is doing well he spread no fertiliser and even sold silage ground. Maybe a lot of it is what kind of a farmer you get on board.

I cant see the quality of grass been good enough to grow heifers with no fertiliser.

rangler1

trixi2011 wrote: »

I cant see the quality of grass been good enough to grow heifers with no fertiliser.

Unlikely
The guy I know is finding the targets very tough, I doubt the €20/bale silage will do the trick either.
And he'd get on well with his other stock

MIKEKC

djmc wrote: »

I suppose it depends on your land type and length of winter
Here a winter would be usually 5 months during which a heifer would eat 7 bales each.
7 x 20 = 140 if you can have bales in yard for 20 euro including fertilizer making and drawing in. 150 days at 1.50 a day is 225.
Then there are other hidden costs like diesel machinery repairs esb bad weather poor silage etc.
It can vary a lot from farm to farm.

What about meal? 2kg/day another e75

trixi2011

djmc wrote: »

I suppose it depends on your land type and length of winter
Here a winter would be usually 5 months during which a heifer would eat 7 bales each.
7 x 20 = 140 if you can have bales in yard for 20 euro including fertilizer making and drawing in. 150 days at 1.50 a day is 225.
Then there are other hidden costs like diesel machinery repairs esb bad weather poor silage etc.
It can vary a lot from farm to farm.

What size of a heifer is going to eat 7 bales of silage over a 150 day period ?

trixi2011

rangler1 wrote: »

Unlikely
The guy I know is finding the targets very tough, I doubt the €20/bale silage will do the trick either.
And he'd get on well with his other stock

Its not as easy to hit target weights as some lads think . Not to many 20 euro bales would do much without meal i would be thinking

djmc

trixi2011 wrote: »

What size of a heifer is going to eat 7 bales of silage over a 150 day period ?

According to teagasc online silage fodder calculator a one to two year old.

RightTurnClyde

I'm paying €1.10 for maidens (12 months to 21 months) from 1st feb to 31st oct

ellewood

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

I'm paying €1.10 for maidens (12 months to 21 months) from 1st feb to 31st oct

What's story with targets, weights - incalf % etc

Ai or Stockbury?

Dosing/testing/vet done paid for by who?

keep going

one thing thats never mentioned is theconsistencey and lower risk thats involved in contract rearing compared to beef.its like alot more investments,at lower risk you expect lower returns.the other big thing is the lower finance involved

freedominacup

keep going wrote: »

one thing thats never mentioned is theconsistencey and lower risk thats involved in contract rearing compared to beef.its like alot more investments,at lower risk you expect lower returns.the other big thing is the lower finance involved

This is the reason many of the larger beef finishers in this area are finishing at least some cattle belonging to someone else.

ganmo

keep going wrote: »

one thing thats never mentioned is theconsistencey and lower risk thats involved in contract rearing compared to beef.its like alot more investments,at lower risk you expect lower returns.the other big thing is the lower finance involved

But we saw from the flying herd thread that it's costing in the region of 1500 to rear replacements and it's costing cheaper to buy them in bringing in a disease risk so 1500 should be the ball park

Dawggone

keep going wrote: »

one thing thats never mentioned is theconsistencey and lower risk thats involved in contract rearing compared to beef.its like alot more investments,at lower risk you expect lower returns.the other big thing is the lower finance involved

Contract rearing beef or dairy stock?
Lol.

When dairy men want a service they quote the beef game...:):)

Masterxd

Hey, I have been doing contract rearing for another farmer for over 2 years now but still not sure of the price I should be getting. Thinking of asking for more but need advice. Hoping anyone out there could help.

I currently have 450kilo Heifers from May-Nov just on grass (very good quality) what should there cost be per day?

I also have calves born Feb-Mar and Fed 1.5kg of meal a day. Will have these May-Nov also. Cost per day for them?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Base price

Masterxd wrote: »

Hey, I have been doing contract rearing for another farmer for over 2 years now but still not sure of the price I should be getting. Thinking of asking for more but need advice. Hoping anyone out there could help.

I currently have 450kilo Heifers from May-Nov just on grass (very good quality) what should there cost be per day?

I also have calves born Feb-Mar and Fed 1.5kg of meal a day. Will have these May-Nov also. Cost per day for them?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

For fecks sake.
People like you that don't know what you are on about feck it up for genuine folk - 2 years later and you still haven't a clue of your costs :mad:

Masterxd

Sorry I could of worded that better, I am not in the farming industry myself and was asking on behalf of a friend who was interested to see other farmers rate for comparison. This would be to help him benchmark as part of his costing.

djmc

It would depend on who is paying for ration doses vet bills knackery etc.
If you are not paying for any of the above and haven't strict target weights to meet then I would think around a euro a day per animal for grass alone
Anything extra that would increase your cost base your charge per animal should rise accordingly
Usually between 1 and 1.50 per animal depending on feeding housing target weights etc

ellewood

Masterxd wrote: »

Hey, I have been doing contract rearing for another farmer for over 2 years now but still not sure of the price I should be getting. Thinking of asking for more but need advice. Hoping anyone out there could help.

I currently have 450kilo Heifers from May-Nov just on grass (very good quality) what should there cost be per day?

I also have calves born Feb-Mar and Fed 1.5kg of meal a day. Will have these May-Nov also. Cost per day for them?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

How much are you being paid at the moment??

Base price wrote: »

For fecks sake.
People like you that don't know what you are on about feck it up for genuine folk - 2 years later and you still haven't a clue of your costs :mad:

Bit harsh, but that was my first taught as well:D

djmc wrote: »

It would depend on who is paying for ration doses vet bills knackery etc.
If you are not paying for any of the above and haven't strict target weights to meet then I would think around a euro a day per animal for grass alone
Anything extra that would increase your cost base your charge per animal should rise accordingly
Usually between 1 and 1.50 per animal depending on feeding housing target weights etc

+1
450 kg heifers no meal, no targets, no vet/meds/dosing - just grass around the 1.00/day mark about right

Proper contract rearing where rearer covers absolutely everything except the cost of ai straws and vaccinating id say
01 may year 1 right through to 01 November year 2 around E1.20/day
01 November year 1 right through to 01 November year 2 around E1.40/day
Both with breeding and weight targets with bonus/fine system for hitting targets or not.

The problem is that everything is called contract rearing tho...
Where the dairy farmer lets his heifers off with a neighbor to graze for the summer with a bull running with them and the dairy farmer still checks on them every few days and does the dosing/testing, treats a sick 1 himself
This is just summer grazing not contract rearing??

Proper contract rearing for a dairy farmer, imo, is where if he wants to, he/she can drop off weaned calves on 01 May year 1 and without having to do anything at all - never even seeing them once, if they so wish - except pay his daily rate will get those calves dropped back to him as maidens incalf before calving down, both on or ahead of weight and with a guarenteed % of them in calf and with a guarenteed % of them calving down within the first week or two of calving starting

Masterxd

ellewood wrote: »

How much are you being paid at the moment??



Bit harsh, but that was my first taught as well:D



+1
450 kg heifers no meal, no targets, no vet/meds/dosing - just grass around the 1.00/day mark about right

Proper contract rearing where rearer covers absolutely everything except the cost of ai straws and vaccinating id say
01 may year 1 right through to 01 November year 2 around E1.20/day
01 November year 1 right through to 01 November year 2 around E1.40/day
Both with breeding and weight targets with bonus/fine system for hitting targets or not.

The problem is that everything is called contract rearing tho...
Where the dairy farmer lets his heifers off with a neighbor to graze for the summer with a bull running with them and the dairy farmer still checks on them every few days and does the dosing/testing, treats a sick 1 himself
This is just summer grazing not contract rearing??

Proper contract rearing for a dairy farmer, imo, is where if he wants to, he/she can drop off weaned calves on 01 May year 1 and without having to do anything at all - never even seeing them once, if they so wish - except pay his daily rate will get those calves dropped back to him as maidens incalf before calving down, both on or ahead of weight and with a guarenteed % of them in calf and with a guarenteed % of them calving down within the first week or two of calving starting

Thank you for your response. djmc thanks too.

Currently covering all costs bar AI.

Take batches in from 12 week old to calving point (roughly 2 years).

Receiving €1.10 for all year round for calves and heifers in calf.

Was considering negotiating up the price for the batch in year 2 (possible to €1.60 hitting all targets but needs to be looked at in more detail.)

ellewood

Masterxd wrote: »

Thank you for your response. djmc thanks too.

Currently covering all costs bar AI.

Take batches in from 12 week old to calving point (roughly 2 years).

Receiving €1.10 for all year round for calves and heifers in calf.

Was considering negotiating up the price for the batch in year 2 (possible to €1.60 hitting all targets but needs to be looked at in more detail.)

Just my opinion but
At 1.10 till 2 yr old ur at nothing but either working for small money or useing ur land for a lot less that rental value

Ur not going to get any1 to give u 1.60 but I would go back to him and get 1.20/day from 01/may till 01/November (as per Teagasc costings)and do a deal with him for second winter feeding

The only other thing is maybe ur doing big numbers or he is good payer or ur using equipment or some other
Sometimes u can b getting paid in non monetary value as well iykwim