slightly off topic - self build house

lakill Farm

ok lots on here have self built their own homes

so going at a similar project here and starting the foundations. do you strip the site first and then dig the foundations?

Zoo4m8

Here, in second house, both sites slightly sloping so about double footprint of house was stripped, foundations dug and hardcore laid to carry machinery, trucks etc, all worked well.
On the first site spoil was used to level up ,on this one was brought off site and used to landscape later.
Starting this time of year is worth anything! Good luck..

Reggie.

Site should be leveled first unless the spoil from the foundations were needed to fill a slope or hole as you were working along

Charliebull

lakill Farm wrote: »

ok lots on here have self built their own homes

so going at a similar project here and starting the foundations. do you strip the site first and then dig the foundations?

:eek:not permitted under current building regulations, (self build that is)

Kevin McCloud

If you do not know a simple thing like getting a site level before digging out foundations its best leave it to someone who knows what they are doing. Building a house is a little more complicated than building a hen house.

Muckit

Iakill (in his head)::

'Well f**k u, I never liked that oul grand designs anyway!!

Count Mondego

Lakill,

Have to go down this route myself soon. Have you appointed an approved assessor for the build as outlined in the new regulations? If so, what ball park price is he charging? Have heard that it can ad 10K to the build.

lakill Farm

Its not a house, and I asked as I have the site levelled already myself with my own mini digger. But getting a ex 120 in to strip site and dig footings

I wanted to know at what stage I need to mark the footings on at is all

Sacrolyte

whats the deal with this whole assessor malarkey. Priory hall me arse.

darragh_haven

lakill Farm wrote: »

Its not a house, and I asked as I have the site levelled already myself with my own mini digger. But getting a ex 120 in to strip site and dig footings

I wanted to know at what stage I need to mark the footings on at is all

Strip the site, level and then dig footings.

Kevin McCloud

What are you actually building op as the title of your thread says a house.

Bullocks

Charliebull wrote: »

:eek:not permitted under current building regulations, (self build that is)

Music to your ears !

lakill Farm

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

What are you actually building op as the title of your thread says a house.

Agricultural building that is been ear marked for conversion

Kevin McCloud

lakill Farm wrote: »

Agricultural building that is been ear marked for conversion

Is it a cavity wall structure with solid single leaf block internal walls? 1 or 2 story?

lakill Farm

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Is it a cavity wall structure with solid single leaf block internal walls? 1 or 2 story?

no its 4 inch leaf ( so 12 inch) and storey and a half. 6.8M height

been built under exempt rural development

Charliebull

Count Mondego wrote: »

Lakill,

Have to go down this route myself soon. Have you appointed an approved assessor for the build as outlined in the new regulations? If so, what ball park price is he charging? Have heard that it can ad 10K to the build.

your being rode

6-7k is enough

Timmaay

lakill Farm wrote: »

no its 4 inch leaf ( so 12 inch) and storey and a half. 6.8M height

been built under exempt rural development

Do tell more please . PM me if ya want.

Charliebull

Timmaay wrote: »

Do tell more please . PM me if ya want.

check out your local councils planning services, they have a list of permitted exempted development , it's also on the dept of agriculture website but use your own councils guide as gospel, that is what will take precedence,

also be very careful about being smart and building a structure which is exempt and then applying for change of use afterwards, it doesnt always work and there is no obligation on councils part to grant said change of use

lakill Farm

its not local council, its regulated by dept of environment

I know no obligations but im pushing for it

Charliebull wrote: »

check out your local councils planning services, they have a list of permitted exempted development , it's also on the dept of agriculture website but use your own councils guide as gospel, that is what will take precedence,

also be very careful about being smart and building a structure which is exempt and then applying for change of use afterwards, it doesnt always work and there is no obligation on councils part to grant said change of use

Bullocks

lakill Farm wrote: »

its not local council, its regulated by dept of environment

I know no obligations but im pushing for it

How long after its built will you look for change of use ?
I'll probably end up going down this route myself but I don't think the planner is going to oblige me one bit

lakill Farm

Bullocks wrote: »

How long after its built will you look for change of use ?
I'll probably end up going down this route myself but I don't think the planner is going to oblige me one bit

once its a sealed unit and I take a picture of a few sheep running in the door and back up onto a trailer - used for agri purposes

Supertech

lakill Farm wrote: »

once its a sealed unit and I take a picture of a few sheep running in the door and back up onto a trailer - used for agri purposes

Tread carefully. Its not that simple. Why would you not just apply for planning now for the house ? You'll have to meet all the current regulations at that stage anyway, and it will require planning. Therefore the council will have more say than the Department.

Count Mondego

Charliebull wrote: »

your being rode

6-7k is enough

Not paying 10, that's just what I'm hearing. Who can actually sign off? Registered architects anyway but what about engineers? One engineer told me that it would cost him 40k for the annual insurance so most engineers won't take it on.

Rabbo

You should be very careful about taking this route.

Firstly, you have no guarantee that you will get planning to convert. Council planners may take a dim view on trying to circumvent planning policy like this. Additionally, you will have to satisfy any engineering concerns before they will issue planning. Will the site pass EPA site suitability assessment for wastewater treatment plant? Can you achieve acceptable sight distances at site entrance? If not, the council can refuse planning solely on engineering concerns.

Secondly, you have to consider building regulations and building control regulations. The converted house would have to comply with building regulations and you are olso obliged to appoint an Assigned Certifier to oversee the build. You will find it very difficult to find one that will sign off on work already done. How do you know you are constructing the building to current building regulations?


It would be a foolish man to build a structure like that without getting some advice from a professional. You might end up throwing your money away

Rabbo

Count Mondego wrote: »

Not paying 10, that's just what I'm hearing. Who can actually sign off? Registered architects anyway but what about engineers? One engineer told me that it would cost him 40k for the annual insurance so most engineers won't take it on.

10k is about right. Only Registered Architects, Chartered Engineers and registered Surveyors can take the role on. The insurance is typically 5-10k. Most engineers I know in the building trade are willing to take on the role

Supertech

Rabbo wrote: »

10k is about right. Only Registered Architects, Chartered Engineers and registered Surveyors can take the role on. The insurance is typically 5-10k. Most engineers I know in the building trade are willing to take on the role

There is a review under way where both Alan Kelly and Paudie Coffey have hinted at a relaxation in the regulations for one off housing. If you can manage to hold off until after this review it might save you some money (MIGHT). It is difficult to change Assigned Certifiers once you have appointed one, so starting with one and getting a better quote from another and then changing is not a runner without some difficulty.

As far as the fees go, Hogan originally, and now Kelly and Coffey have all suggested the fees should be as low €3 - 3.5K. I think this might be ambitious given the insurance (as has been noted), the liability and the sheer workload involved.

It's not just a series of Stage Payment Certs anymore, it's a fully certified project from start to finish, with the Certifier perfectly entitled to ask for information from anyone who does any work on the site, or who provides any materials to the project, INCLUDING the self-builder, who will ultimately have to co-sign the completion certificate at the end of the project.

kowtow

darragh_haven wrote: »

Strip the site, level and then dig footings.

taking care that the footings extend well below "made ground" from the levelling.

Are you pouring all the way up to ground level, or having foundation blocks?

kowtow

Charliebull wrote: »

your being rode

6-7k is enough

We are all being rode.

if I recall the equivalent figure in the UK (which may even have included a warranty policy from NHBC) was 2 or 3K...

Count Mondego

Supertech wrote: »

There is a review under way where both Alan Kelly and Paudie Coffey have hinted at a relaxation in the regulations for one off housing. If you can manage to hold off until after this review it might save you some money (MIGHT).

What's the timeline on this, months or years? This is already costing me as I have to use a registered architect as opposed to a technician. Thanks for the info!

Supertech

Review to take place over coming weeks, recommendations implemented over coming months. Possibility that AT's will be included in certification.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/environment-minister-alan-kelly-throw-5258028#ICID=sharebar_twitter

The detail on what's being reviewed and by whom, and what the outcome will be is extremely sketchy, but self-builders and architectural technologists have been among the most vocal critics of the system. It makes sense to kill two birds with one stone. Throw an election into the mix, and you'd never know what might happen. If you can, I'd stall the digger .... so to speak !!:D It might save you in the long term.

Charliebull

Rabbo wrote: »

10k is about right. Only Registered Architects, Chartered Engineers and registered Surveyors can take the role on. The insurance is typically 5-10k. Most engineers I know in the building trade are willing to take on the role

There is people out there quoting 6k and TBH it's prob the min one would need

What insurance are you quoting at 5-10k

foxy farmer

Excuse me for being thick but whos demanding all this paperwork? Banks Councils or Insurance co.s?
Put up a "stick built"(site manufactured) timber frame 2 storey house here back in 02. All direct labour.
Architectural technician and planning dept is all i dealt with.
Wonder how I'd get on if i tried it today?

Kevin McCloud

foxy farmer wrote: »

Wonder how I'd get on if i tried it today?

You would get jail with the way things are going, things are gone to fuck altogether.

foxy farmer

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

You would get jail with the way things are going, things are gone to fuck altogether.

With the way things are going servicing your own car and machinery will be outlawed in time. Will have to be done by recognised professionals and paperwork to back it up.

Rabbo

Charliebull wrote: »

There is people out there quoting 6k and TBH it's prob the min one would need

What insurance are you quoting at 5-10k

Annual Professional Indemnity Insurance for the engineer/architect/surveyor

Charliebull

Rabbo wrote: »

Annual Professional Indemnity Insurance for the engineer/architect/surveyor

:eek:, excessive, that must be commercial quote with a large indemnity

Deepsouthwest

lakill Farm wrote: »

Agricultural building that is been ear marked for conversion

Ohh, controversial!

Deepsouthwest

kowtow wrote: »

taking care that the footings extend well below "made ground" from the levelling.

Are you pouring all the way up to ground level, or having foundation blocks?

I wouldn't get too hung up on doing correct foundations, I'd pour a simple/flat foundation of 4/5 inches, and build a fairly light structure sheeted to the ground. U'd be extremely lucky to get the foundations exactly right for a future build.

Kevhog1988

lakill Farm wrote: »

Agricultural building that is been ear marked for conversion

Have you engaged an architect? Id imagine if a neighbour complained as to what your building you could be made take it down. Using a "loophole" is not always a good way of doing stuff. Why not just apply properly and pay the proper fees?. It could save you money in the long run. With the new regs you have to have a bona fide contractor and an architect/engineer to sign off on the works. Its no harm in my opinion. There was some serious cowboys around in the early 2000's. As far as i am aware you need to still pay the fees for alterations so converting a "shed" to habitable would need installation of doors, windows etc.

Kevhog1988

Rabbo wrote: »

10k is about right. Only Registered Architects, Chartered Engineers and registered Surveyors can take the role on. The insurance is typically 5-10k. Most engineers I know in the building trade are willing to take on the role

Needs to be a building surveyor too. Im a qs and i cant do it

RORY O CONNOR

Count Mondego wrote: »

Not paying 10, that's just what I'm hearing. Who can actually sign off? Registered architects anyway but what about engineers? One engineer told me that it would cost him 40k for the annual insurance so most engineers won't take it on.

Think you are being fibbed to. 40K for annual PI insurance is simply not a fee that is quoted unless its a multi disciplinary practice with a lot of employees doing significant development.

Registered Architects, Registered Chartered Engineers and Registered Building surveyors are the only three professionals who can sign off currently.

Count Mondego

RORY O CONNOR wrote: »

Think you are being fibbed to. 40K for annual PI insurance is simply not a fee that is quoted unless its a multi disciplinary practice with a lot of employees doing significant development.

Registered Architects, Registered Chartered Engineers and Registered Building surveyors are the only three professionals who can sign off currently.

Howya Rory! How are they all in Tubber?

Fact remains, plans now have to be submitted by a Registered Arch, who are generally double the price of a Technician and the Certified Assessor function will cost the house builder between 7-10K. This is going to add about 12K to my build.

RORY O CONNOR

Count Mondego wrote: »

Howya Rory! How are they all in Tubber?

Fact remains, plans now have to be submitted by a Registered Arch, who are generally double the price of a Technician and the Certified Assessor function will cost the house builder between 7-10K. This is going to add about 12K to my build.

An architectural technician can do your plans and submit the planning application. He can't be your AC-at the moment anyway. AC for 7-10K sounds expensive.

Miname

3500 up around me with the engineers. I have seen no one yet paying 10k.

Sligoronan

In the building game and here watch I have seen since the A\C came in. About 3k for planning 6.5k for A\C another €750 for Structural Eng €700 for all septic tank sign offs & €500 for BER & blower Test. So in around 12k all in then put the council fee for building on top and ya could be close to 20k with it and a water connection charge. But in the long run it is the way to go. Accountability with the correct people. Also helps to keep black economy at bay.
In the end cheap can be expensive and expensive not so cheap.

Muckit

Excuse my ignorance what's AC stand for?

Sligoronan

Muckit wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance what's AC stand for?

assigned certifier

Milked out

Sligoronan wrote: »

In the building game and here watch I have seen since the A\C came in. About 3k for planning 6.5k for A\C another €750 for Structural Eng €700 for all septic tank sign offs & €500 for BER & blower Test. So in around 12k all in then put the council fee for building on top and ya could be close to 20k with it and a water connection charge. But in the long run it is the way to go. Accountability with the correct people. Also helps to keep black economy at bay.
In the end cheap can be expensive and expensive not so cheap.

3k a lot for planning? Id of thought 1k if getting someone to do it

Rabbo

Milked out wrote: »

3k a lot for planning? Id of thought 1k if getting someone to do it

The site suitability assesment (percolation tests) alone cost €500-€600. Draw up and develop plans, topographical survey, draw up site layout drawing, purchase and prepare maps, prepare application, advertise in press, submit full application (6 copies), deal with council and any FI requests. €3k would be reasonable.

Jim Simmental

If a farmer wanted to build a circa 2000 square foot house in 2015 on his own land, with these new regulations,

What ball park figure would you be looking at from planning to builders finish?

darragh_haven

Jim Simmental wrote: »

If a farmer wanted to build a circa 2000 square foot house in 2015 on his own land, with these new regulations,

What ball park figure would you be looking at from planning to builders finish?

I think youd be looking at €115 to €125 per sq foot. But it a ll depends on specification and complexity