Issues with my psychoanalyst

LegacyUser

Hi,

I've just started psychotheraphy and I'm finding it a struggle. We are still in the assessment phase.

It seems that everything I say is being misconstrued or made to be contradictions and it is making me angry. The Psychoanalyst is really pressing all my buttons. It means that I leave my sessions angry, sad and depression increased.

It seems that everything I said is turned back on me and it makes me not want to speak as the analysis of my words makes me feel worthless and inept.

I started this with good intentions but I'm feeling overwhelmed by it and I can't see how it will help me achieve my goals.

I'm feeling frustrated and it is making me have negative feelings towards the counsellor and it makes me automatically have my back up and on the defensive.

In my last session there were long periods of silence when she was waiting for me to say something but I was so annoyed I promised myself to say nothing. We sat in silence of a number of minutes and then the session was ended early.

This doesn't seem healthy or right to me. These sessions are costing me a lot of money, and I feel that it is me versus her rather than her helping me.

The thing is she is quite a reknown and respected Psychoanalyst and I don't want to chuck this away needlessly. I want to get the most I can from this and get to the root cause of my issues. I can't see how this will all help me, but I suppose I have to trust her to help me get there. However, as this goes on I am feeling more defensive and less willing to speak. The silences frustrate me - to the point that I promise myself not to speak first.

This cannot be healthy or is this how it all works?

Tigger99

Oh it's totally not how it works. Look sometimes you just don't click with a therapist. If you aren't talking on purpose, that's a pretty bad sign. Maybe just try somebody else?

Littlekittylou

You need to leave and inform the psychoanalyst. They all say they are well respected it unless very senior in a University or hospital it's trumpet blowing.

No wonder you don't like this therapist. They are failing in their professional duty to you.


Try someone else.

LegacyUser

OP, could you give us an example of how she makes you feel worthless or inept? Have you tried speaking to her about this?

Hoochiemama

Maybe you should bring up these feelings you have with your therapist. The great thing about a therapist is you CAN discuss these negative feelings you have towards them with them. Its what makes your relationship with your therapist different from a social norm relationship. Go in there and tell them how you are feeling. They will not be offended, or hurt. They will actually have a discussion with you about the way you feel and it can be very theraputic

Rubberchikken

could you tell this person how you're feeling? they're there to listen and try to help you not like you or you them so being honest with them is not going to hurt their feelings.

at the moment the only person losing out is you because you're not getting anything out of the session and i don't know if you should be coming out of it angry.

if at the end of the day you don't click, and that can happen i guess, then maybe consider a change.

good luck

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

LegacyUser

Psychoanalysys is a very specific form of therapy based on narrative and historical note taking. It is not practical for every issue or syndrome. It premises itself on "insight" being enough to catalyst change.

It roots itself in developmental theory, from Freud, Breuer,Adler, Jung...and each practitoner will draw on one or a number of these theorists. The danger is that a practitioner can "marry" their theories and see everything you say and or do through that particular paradigm.

Silences can be uncomfortable and their idea is that through the silence something important will eventually break through. This may or may not be the case, but the question is...is the insight enough and how much silence can you afford at E120 an hour when it may come down to basic chemistry between you and the therapist.

I would have no problem saying "Im not paying E120 an hour to sit here in silence. And this is not working out for me."

Have you explored other therapies?

Greenduck

Hi OP - if you're looking for a comfortable experience, psychoanalysis is not the place to be! If was a betting woman I would say your analyst is purposefully pushing your buttons to get you upset and angry. Sometimes these emotional reactions are our most honest. Psychoanalysis will look to uncover deep, unconscious truths, fantasies and drives if an effort to examine why you are the way you are!

Its the oldest type of therapy but doesnt suit many people as it can be vague and distant at times. The relationship is not necessarily the chief aspect of the therapy and often clients can fell frustrated and rejected (similar to you).

If you are looking for a warmer and less sterile experience try Person Centred/Humanistic or Integrative therapy. I would advise you to bring your feelings to your therapist as this direction of treatment may be on purpose. Staying silent for you in that occasion was a form of defense and the analyst would have been interested in why you choose this defensive method so maybe this is also why they also stayed silent. There is many many layers to psychoanalysis..maybe do a bit of research on it. Its not for everyone.

LegacyUser

That sounds exactly what I went through before. Stop going now is the first thing to do.

I went to a therapist and rather than try and help me with my issues and she would take one part of what I said and focus on that.

For example I had confidence issues. I said that I'd like to take a pill to make me more confident. Rather than focus on how I could become more confident, she would say

"take a pill.....hmmm" ..... and then silence.

Nearly everything I said was greeted with silence and a nod. Nothing was happening week on week..

I stuck with it and it was awful. I got so frustrated with her that I asked her what the process was meant to entail... she didn't tell me. How is this meant to work? No answer.

I left, my GP recommended another therapist, and hsve since returned to college to do a degree, get my masters, get a job etc etc.

There are better people out there to go to see who will help you.

gsi300024v

You promise yourself that you won't speak first? I just don't get this, you've set the therapy up as a battle of wills. Why?
They are there to help you and you are there to get help. You are also paying for this so why would you want to just sit there. It's up to you to bring up what you want to talk about. It's what naturally comes out, they won't say, " today we'll talk about this", it can seem weird.
It does seem that you are very defensive and want to control the situation but can't.
Definitely go in and say everything you've talked about here, try find out why it makes you so angry. Sometimes the reasons we think we react a certain way are not really the real reasons at all, the therapist will help you figure it out.
Don't be to hard on yourself either, it's hard to go in to a stranger and be totally honest and open, might take a while to work through why your angry and upset after sessions, before you can move on to work on other stuff, but the working through the anger will probably be good for you too.
Hey good luck with it, stick on in there, maybe give yourself a little reward for going each week.
I can only speak for myself, but it's totally changed my life for the better, not totally fixed me as it's not for that, but helps me cope with me and my life better.

LegacyUser

OP, could you give us an example of how she makes you feel worthless or inept? Have you tried speaking to her about this?

I said something about wanting a relationship, but not feeling that I was able to have one - feeling that as I get older I get less willing to compromise. I feel that I become more asexual. I then said that being on my own allows me to get up when I want, do what I want, go where I want - and I like that. She challenged me on this pointing out it was contradicting with me wanting a relationship.

Maybe you should bring up these feelings you have with your therapist.

could you tell this person how you're feeling?

I could but I'm slightly scared that saying this will result in no more treatment accepted once the assessment phase is over.

They all say they are well respected it unless very senior in a University or hospital it's trumpet blowing.

My IPT counsellor said she was one of the top ones.

You promise yourself that you won't speak first? I just don't get this, you've set the therapy up as a battle of wills. Why?

Why would you pay to sit in a room with someone not speaking to them?

I don't know. I find the silences awkward - it feels as if these silences are implicitly forcing me to speak. I don't like being backed up in a corner - hence it riles me up and I refuse to engage.

If you're visiting this psychoanalyst for treatment for depression, you might want to consider whether or not you would be better off seeing a different kind of mental health professional.

Have you explored other therapies?

I've tried numerous counsellors before over a period of 15 years - IPT and CBT included. This is the latest attempt...

LegacyUser

"I said something about wanting a relationship, but not feeling that I was able to have one - feeling that as I get older I get less willing to compromise. I feel that I become more asexual. I then said that being on my own allows me to get up when I want, do what I want, go where I want - and I like that. She challenged me on this pointing out it was contradicting with me wanting a relationship."

Umm yes, it is a contradiction. Your counsellor is just pointing out the obvious. How on earth is she making you feel worthless, sorry OP but I suggest you looking into the concept of projection before blaming your counsellor for literally just doing her job. If that's making you feel worthless, it just shows that you've major issues. She's not doing the slightest thing wrong by pointing out that you've made two completely contradictory claims, how can you not see that all she is doing is trying to get you see how you've got two incompatible truths wrestling around. Sorry, you're being incredibly unfair

Also she's paid to listen, to reframe what you say, not do the talking. If youre sitting in some kind of stubborn silence you only have yourself to blame. You go to therapy to talk, why are you acting like a child who has been forced into something?

Sounds to me like you're delibrately trying to find fault.

LegacyUser

slate123 wrote: »

I said something about wanting a relationship, but not feeling that I was able to have one - feeling that as I get older I get less willing to compromise. I feel that I become more asexual. I then said that being on my own allows me to get up when I want, do what I want, go where I want - and I like that. She challenged me on this pointing out it was contradicting with me wanting a relationship.




.

IS this what is making you angry, that she is pointing out to you your contradictions or are you feeling inadequate because you can't reconcile them?

It's up tp you to take responsibility in this journey with her- she is not there to interpret for you because that robs you of your autonomy, she is there to help you discover what it is you want.

How I would read what you are saying is very simple. You are lonely but you are scared that if you get involved with someone you will invariable have to give up some autonomy, or take some responsibility for that involvement, which you evidently have problems with based on what you say here.

In some respects any kind of therapy is "rehearsal" for how to interact outside and its a chance to manage, sustain and cultivate intimacy in an adult and nourishing way.

I dont think you are seeing your part here in the exchanges. It's up to you to say "I feel inept" when you point out my contradictions." She's a pscyhonalyst not a psychic.

gsi300024v

What would you like to change about you?
It might be that you feel certain ways about yourself and are thinking the therapist is making you feel that way. When really maybe it's just you being there brings these things out for you to see. I know for me it's easy to brush things off I'm not happy with but when I'm in a session it's hard for me to lie to myself, I kinda have to own up to my own actions.
I really hope you can keep going, it will be great for you if you can stick with it and try let down your barriers a bit over time.
I didn't find there was see what my problems period then lets deal with them, literally I go in and whatever comes up naturally we talk about.
I know the silence can be hard but if it makes it easier I didn't like them much in the beginning either. But it's ok now when it happens, it makes me more ok with silence in general.
You seem very defensive. I suppose it's hard for you to buy into the process of therapy. You say you've been to all sorts of therapy and it sounds like non were for you, possibly you just don't want to or are not ready to deal with things, that's ok too. MAybe you could say with this one you'll go with it for 4 months, not do the silence thing not make it a a battle of wills and really go for it.
I just found I used to blame everyone for my unhappiness, it was easier than changing myself and seeing a lot was my fault. We can blame everyone else but it's far easier to change yourself than everyone around you.
You seem unhappy, just maybe commit to it for 6 months, try be less defensive, talk about what is troubling you, be in work, relationships or the sessions themselves. It's very common for people to be angry with the therapist, tell them about it. Try work through it.
I wish you the best of luck and hope it helps you.

Faith

If you don't mind sharing, what goals are you hoping to achieve from the therapeutic process?

Certain disorders only respond well to certain therapeutic interventions. For instance, Borderline Personality Disorder is best treated with Dialectical behavior therapy. Other therapies pale in comparison for efficacy with BPD. Psychoanalysis (or psychodynamic therapy, as it's currently known) is a very specific approach and may not be right for you, depending on what you aim to achieve.

LegacyUser

IS this what is making you angry, that she is pointing out to you your contradictions or are you feeling inadequate because you can't reconcile them?

Both - probably more of the former. By pointing out the flaws in my statements, to me it feels as if I am being picked on. It feels really belittling to me and I am awkward with every word I say being considered so deeply.

How I would read what you are saying is very simple. You are lonely but you are scared that if you get involved with someone you will invariable have to give up some autonomy, or take some responsibility for that involvement, which you evidently have problems with based on what you say here.

Essentially yes this is how I feel. I thought that is what i did say, but others seem to be interpreting it differently. As much as I would like a relationship, it scares me because I feel I could be easily manipulated and/or drip along aimlessly in relationship due to lack of alternatives. A relationship is not the be all and end all - as I have no friends and no social life. They must/should be my first priorities even though time is ticking away for me in terms of having a relationship with a family outcome.

If you don't mind sharing, what goals are you hoping to achieve from the therapeutic process?

My life is work-gym-home ad nauseum.
I would like to break this cycle and find something that I deeply enjoy doing - have a passion in life - live instead of existing.
I would like to get out of my house and do things - go to cinema, pub whatever. It doesn't have to be like 'The Hangover' every weekend!
I would like some friends to socialise with - to call up and to be called up by.
I would like to rid myself of the what ifs that plague my life.
I want to not be scared of intimate relationships with the opposite sex. The longer my issues continue the more alien they become and the more than intimacy becomes something that happens for other, on TV, and in porn*. (* just talking about the act of sex here).
I'd like to be confident in my appearance.
In terms of an intimate relationship, as much as I would like one I just don't feel equiped to have someone looking to lean on me and how much of a life changing shake up it would be for me. It scares me. Sex scares me. STI's scare me. Her getting pregnant scares me. Sex is something that occurs in TV and porn - not in my world. Porn seems to have made it something different for me.
I just want to be content/happy and not always regretting things or wishing for change. It is eating me up and making me angry and bitter. However, in saying that these feelings only emerge when I'm with a counsellor or alone. At work I'm quite popular, hold down a good job, got enough money in bank for a house, it all seems rosy...

Dracula!

As someone that has seen several therapists over the years my gut feeling is that the therapy is working perfectly but it's not what you expected it to be. To get the relief you are looking for you will need to go into areas that you normally defend against going into. This anger your feeling is being projected onto the therapist may be a defense mechanism and there may be tears behind it. Stick with it for another while. The relief comes when you can let yourself into the uncomfortable areas more. Bydoing something different taking a risk and letting go of control and showing vulnerability. That was how it worked for me anyway.Best of luck to you.

gsi300024v

You might like to look at the affects of porn on the brain. Look up the likes of porn free on reddit.

Semele

OP, that sounds like therapy is getting at the issues rather than being useless!

The very fact that you're having such a strong reaction to what seems like a fairly innocuous situation is itself a sign that your longstanding defences feel threatened. Psychoanalysis works on the basis that ruptures arising in the therapeutic relationship (such as your current stalemate and resistance to talking because you feel manipulated) are identified, worked through and understood. But psychoanalysis is not a short term quick fix! There needs to be time for the relationship and any difficulties within it to become apparent in order for you to work on them.

You seem to expect the therapist to take all the responsibility for change- and yet you're not giving her much to work with, are you? In psychoanalysis it is common practice for the therapist to be quite a blank slate at first and not to give much away, because in doing so the client has to make assumptions about what the therapist is like and about how they feel towards you/what their intentions are. Those assumptions that you make are a rich source of data about how you view the world and how you think others view you...you are projecting your interpretations onto a blank canvas. The more you are able to talk about your angry or frustrated feelings, the more you will be able to identify what unhelpful beliefs you hold in relation to other people.

It's not a comfortable form of therapy but it is a great experience, and if you've tried CBT etc in the past without success then something more relational such as this may be exactly what you need. In therapy we think about "task" and "process". In some structured forms of therapy such as CBT, the task is the explicit stuff you work on- the goal setting, diaries etc. the process takes more of a back seat. In psychoanalysis though the task and the process are one and the same- so it can often feel quite aimless. I can't stress enough though how much you need to communicate your feelings about the therapy to the therapist in order to move things forward and provide something to work with.

KomradeBishop

If you decide to stick with psychoanalysis, make certain that you feel a sense of progress - or some idea of how progress is being made - or you risk wasting a lot of time and money.

Do careful research online, about the efficacy of psychoanalysis for treating your specific problems (especially e.g. studies/trials determining its statistical efficacy), and make sure to ask the therapist what they know about this (in relation to your specific problems, and if they are up to date on research for your specific issues etc.).
If you get stonewalled when trying to do this, then it is likely a waste of time - there's no excuse for a psych of any kind, to refuse discussing this, so you can verify their credentials.

Psychonanalysis/psychodynamic stuff is not very effective for treating some issues - so making sure it is effective for your issues, is very important; the mental health field is also not very well regulated, so worth being careful and doing your research, as there are a lot of poor practitioners out there.

LegacyUser

OP, that sounds like therapy is getting at the issues rather than being useless!

my gut feeling is that the therapy is working perfectly

That is good to know. In hindsight I know I should just speak my mind, but I find it really difficult and I get all flustered.

If you decide to stick with psychoanalysis, make certain that you feel a sense of progress - or some idea of how progress is being made - or you risk wasting a lot of time and money.

I've said to her a few times now that I'm not sure how this all will help me. I've been through so many other therapists with a no results that I can't see how any type of intervention will succeed. She just tells me to trust her. As much as I want to and know that I must, I sometimes sit and wonder where it is all leading to.

I can't stress enough though how much you need to communicate your feelings about the therapy to the therapist in order to move things forward and provide something to work with.

I'm slightl worried about doing this incase she terminates the sessions.

You might like to look at the affects of porn on the brain.

I have talked about this previously with another therapist, but there was not much interest from them in it. Is this even worth bringing up? I'm not sure if me looking at porn is a cause or an effect of my problems.

Faith

slate123 wrote: »

I'm slightl worried about doing this incase she terminates the sessions.

You've mentioned this a couple of times now. Would that really be a problem? You could find a new therapist if it happened. What is it that makes you so anxious about the possibility of her terminating?

You don't need to answer that on thread, just ponder it yourself. It might help you rationalize the fear a little

gsi300024v

Possibly see that if you found therapy easy and no issue going or speaking your mind then maybe you'd not need to be there.
The fact it brings so much up for you could be a positive, they are things you'd finding out and can start working on.
Some go for years and don't talk about what they should.
No therapist worth anything will end sessions because you question how it all works.
Yourbrainonporn.com is an interesting site you might like to look up.
Your posts really seem to come down to, therapy is hard and do you want to keep going back to do something you find hard?
Also these people and yourself are so honest in there, so stuff you've avoided for years and possibly those around you avoid too, can't r don't get avoid in therapy, this is a good thing though.
You don't get to control how the therapist reacts to what you say. This is a good thing, they are so honest, it's better than friends who you'll have for a reason and who more then likely say what you want to hear rather than be honest.
Keep going, the fact you started going at all is great, many people never even try to work on their issues never mind sort them.
What's the longest you've gone to other therapy for?

zeffabelli

slate123 wrote: »

That is good to know. In hindsight I know I should just speak my mind, but I find it really difficult and I get all flustered.



I've said to her a few times now that I'm not sure how this all will help me. I've been through so many other therapists with a no results that I can't see how any type of intervention will succeed. She just tells me to trust her. As much as I want to and know that I must, I sometimes sit and wonder where it is all leading to.


I'm slightl worried about doing this incase she terminates the sessions.


I have talked about this previously with another therapist, but there was not much interest from them in it. Is this even worth bringing up? I'm not sure if me looking at porn is a cause or an effect of my problems.

You really need to discuss this stuff with her and not here.

Tell her that you feel uncertain.

Tell her that you are afraid she will terminte sessions if you say the wrong thing.

Tell her it's difficult for you to trust this process.

Telling someone "trust me" doesn't wave a magic wand to someone who is having a hard time trusting and build trust. I would point this out to her.

Dark Phoenix

Op you said in one post that its been 15 years that you have been trying to overcome your problems so I think at this stage its time to go all in and give this your best shot. Why not sit down and tell the analyst how the questions and comments make you feel and then discuss those emotions - whats the worst that could happen if you do? I wouldnt blame the analyst at this stage as if its been 15 years you have no doubt gone to many people and if none have worked well they cant all just have been bad at their job. You said "I've been through so many other therapists with a no results that I can't see how any type of intervention will succeed. She just tells me to trust her" - this wont and cant work if you go in with the mentality that you dont believe it will work - i;d say this might be part of the problem.

I wont profess to know a huge amount about psychoanalysis but I do know a lady who does it for a living and I know that its not meant to be fluffy and easy - its about getting to the root of the problem and if you are feeling angry or agitated maybe thats a good thing and maybe nows the time to talk to her about that to get past it and on to the next step? Think of it this way - if fixing the problems you have was easy, it would have been fixed a long time ago so maybe see this as a hard road to a good ending.

whatever you do dont sit there in silence - say what you feel and what you think and what you are doing and why - it surely cant make you feel any worse than you are when you sit there not speaking.

LegacyUser

Well, its been a week and I've now been back for my subsequent and penultimate session of the assessment phase.
She said I am better placed for this treatment than the others I have tried.

I told her that I found the silences challenging and would get annoyed and keep silent as a means of frustration. She described it as a war.

She keeps asking me to say whats on my mind and then we sit in silence as I can't think what to say. It still bugs me. I want this to work, but I don't understand what I'm being asked. I've told her this and how I feel about it. She says I need to open up and that she will not force the conversation - it must come from me.

This frustrates me. How can I voercome this. If I can't speak about this what is the point of continuing the treatment? Maybe I'm too old - can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Another thing is that she is a bit overweight and I find myself being prejudiced against her for that. Reason (I think) is that one of my parents is severely overweight and refuses to do anything about it. It frustrates me seeing everyone trying to help but they are not responding. Their health is deteriorating and their mobility is getting less and less. Therefore, I see overweight people in the same light. It is a prejudice on my part against her. Her weight has no impact on my treatment with her, but I do feel a 'dislike' of her for this reason.

Is this normal and how can I counter it?

I'll have a decision to make next week - on her part it seems that she thinks I am suitable for continued sessions. On my part, I feel I'm not engaging, I come out of the sessions sad (But by the time of the following week I am hopeful again...), I'm slightly prejudiced against her, I find the treatment confusing, I'm running out of options fast and don't know what else there is to do or where to go from here. Is this now finally me in the last chance saloon?

gsi300024v

I suppose it's do you want to put in the hard work to make life better or do you want to stop going and stay as you are?
It just really seems you're looking for excuses to not go because you find it hard.
I know one friend who went and balled their eyes out for the whole session every time for months. It can be hard. You'll probably not stop questioning it or making up reasons not to go, that's fine, just go anyway. What if you committed to say 4 months. You kind of relaxed a bit knowing you'd be going for the 4 months. So even if you were over thinking it, if she's overweight, if the silence is good or bad etc, you've committed to the 4 months anyway. Might help you just go with it instead of what you are doing and escaping.
It is a hard process, it's probably the most honest you'll ever be with yourself and the most honest anyone will be with you. That can be hard to deal with but also great for getting the help to do better.

Faith

One suggestion for the silences is to start talking about why it makes you uncomfortable. Just start talking and see what comes out! It doesn't matter if it's inane. You could even talk about the issues you have around your parent's weight if you'd like.

Greenduck

slate123 wrote: »

Another thing is that she is a bit overweight and I find myself being prejudiced against her for that. Reason (I think) is that one of my parents is severely overweight and refuses to do anything about it. It frustrates me seeing everyone trying to help but they are not responding. Their health is deteriorating and their mobility is getting less and less. Therefore, I see overweight people in the same light. It is a prejudice on my part against her. Her weight has no impact on my treatment with her, but I do feel a 'dislike' of her for this reason.

Is this normal and how can I counter it?

Its called transference and its one of the most common elements of psychoanalysis. The transferring of feelings towards your therapist is really normal and she might be also picking up on this (countertransference) and not knowing what it is. If you start to speak to her about your parents it will help her to see why somethings are difficult for you.

You're inability to speak during these sessions is telling a lot. What is it you're afraid of saying or doing? Same as your day to day life which you consider boring. You want to be passionate but cant, you want to to help your parents but cant and you want to speak but can't.

Can't or won't?

LegacyUser

gsi300024v wrote: »

I suppose it's do you want to put in the hard work to make life better or do you want to stop going and stay as you are?

I don't want to stay as I am. I'm desperate to make my life better. I just am confused and frustrated by this treatment. I'm also frustrated that my 'treatment' has been ongoing for over 15 years and there has been no discernable progress meaning that with time options which I might have liked to consider are no longer viable for me.

It just really seems you're looking for excuses to not go because you find it hard.

Nope, I want to go. I want to engage, but I don't/can't figure out how to do so.

What if you committed to say 4 months. You kind of relaxed a bit knowing you'd be going for the 4 months. So even if you were over thinking it, if she's overweight, if the silence is good or bad etc, you've committed to the 4 months anyway. Might help you just go with it instead of what you are doing and escaping.

Going is not a problem for me. In 15 years I think I only missed one appt and I went to every single appt which was offered to me. I've got the commitment in that regard, it just when I'm there how to make it worthwhile.

One suggestion for the silences is to start talking about why it makes you uncomfortable. Just start talking and see what comes out! It doesn't matter if it's inane. You could even talk about the issues you have around your parent's weight if you'd like.

I did tell her that I felt them as awkward and that the longer they went on the more I became determined to say nothing as it irritated me. However, not much really came out of this revelation, which confuses me as I don't know what I should be speaking about. It opened nothing up.

You're inability to speak during these sessions is telling a lot. What is it you're afraid of saying or doing? Same as your day to day life which you consider boring. You want to be passionate but cant, you want to to help your parents but cant and you want to speak but can't.

I don't honestly know. I think I'm afraid of saying something wrong. That is why I got annoyed when she picked up on my contradictions. It seems to prove I should not speak as I don't know what I'm talking about. I've got no confidence or conviction in my words. I keep my opinions to myself on a number of subjects such as politics, united Ireland etc - afraid I'll say something that will rile someone up or contrdict myself or be just incorrect.

Can't or won't?

It probably started as won't and has now developed into can't

KomradeBishop

You say earlier that you have no friends and no social life, and personally (from experience) I don't think that type of therapy is going to be very useful in helping with that - and indeed, if you do research online about that type of therapy, it's hard to find any evidence of its efficacy for social issues (and I'd definitely be asking the therapist directly, what knowledge they have, of proof of it's efficacy for your issues - any stonewalling/evasion here when discussing that, and get rid of them).

This is why I said earlier, that it's a good idea to make sure there's a sense/feeling of progress over time from the sessions, because if you're confused or unsure about progress for months/years (and with a therapist stringing you along taking your money in the process, assuring you that "it takes time"), it's very likely to be a waste of time/money.

It's worth being cynical here to be honest, as there are a lot of (probably well-intentioned) quacks in the mental health field, and regulation is not great.


You said you tried CBT before as well, and an advantage of that is that it's directly focused on actual pragmatic goals - which makes it good for working on the lack of friends/social-life; so I'd definitely recommend that (and it's progress you can see directly as well, even if it can be difficult/challenging).

In my opinion, there's a risk of over-relying on therapy sessions to 'fix' issues though, when what may really be needed is spending more time working on things outside of sessions.
This includes CBT - going once a week may be overkill if you're finding it hard to do everything that's set out for you in the last session - so what you can do is use the sessions to help set goals for yourself, work on figuring out things that hold you back, and help get a fresh perspective on things - and then wait before going back again, until you feel you're having difficulty with something, that you can't figure out on your own (then when you have enough on your plate to work on from the sessions, stick with that before going back again).

So that way, you don't feel you're wasting any of the sessions, and are going only when you feel you need to work something out.


Anyway, that's just my (completely non-professional) opinion, I don't know what would suit you best - but it sounds like using CBT in this way, may help you with the social difficulties, whereas what you're doing now, may not.

gsi300024v

You seem very anxious about not saying anything wrong or incorrect, it might be worth talking about that. I don't therapy as a place were I'm judged for being right or wrong, it's a safe place to say anything you want, you might figure out why you said something.
You seem like you like to be in control most of the time. And while you get to control everything that is talked about in sessions, there might be stuff you wish to avoid or not talk about for fear of saying the wrong thing. Sessions is the place you want to try be more open. It took me quite awhile to open up.
You also don't need to explain away everything that comes up here in these posts.
Basically, keep going and try trust it and not judge it non stop, and stop having a battle of wits with the counsellor, they're there to help you.

Big Bag of Chips

She's not there to "fix" you. She's there to facilitate you in sorting yourself out. The clue is in the name, psychoanalyst. She analyses. Questions. Gets you to think. She's not giving out to you. She's not correcting you. She's not telling you you are wrong. She is forcing you to dig deeper to find out why you think, feel and react as you do.

She doesn't talk when you don't talk, because it's your therapy. You are the one that needs to bring up topics you want to explore. She's not a mind reader. She can't know the specific issues that bother you. She's not going to come out and ask if your parents are overweight and if you have a problem with that!

I don't mean to make light of your situation but I hope you understand from many of the replies here that her purpose is to facilitate you. To give you a space to explore your problems. She has to question you. She has to try get you to find the root of your problems. If you want to sit there in silence, then she has to sit there in silence too. She's waiting for you to steer the direction of the therapy.

But you seem to be hoping she'll take you by the hand and walk you through it.

Molecule

OP I'd be inclined to agree with others who say this is exactly the therapy you need. CBT can be great (though it's not as wonderfully efficacious as some might think), but it depends on high levels of 'buy in' from the person attending therapy. Without that, its efficacy decreases significantly.

Loads of people have said it but I will reiterate. What you need to do is stop coming here with your thoughts and misgivings on the therapy, and instead voice these straight to your therapist. She will not be insulted or offended. The challenge here is for you to be honest and open with someone. You say that you can't see how this will help, and it's not for me to point out how, but if nothing else already it's highlighting how you interact with others, where your defenses are, how they are aroused, and how you view therapy ("fix me" vs. "I am here to learn to fix myself"). All of these things are important. ALL of them are things that you really, really need to think about. WHY do I do this? WHY do I react like this? What was it about what she said/did that caused this reaction in me? WHY do I feel frustrated/insulted/threated by this? Etc etc.

Stick with it but try musing on it there rather than here. Nobody can do this but you.

LegacyUser

slate123 wrote: »

I have talked about this previously with another therapist, but there was not much interest from them in it. Is this even worth bringing up? I'm not sure if me looking at porn is a cause or an effect of my problems.

From my own experience cutting porn out of my life entirely has been beneficial in ways I never imagined. How do you know its not having a negative effect on your life, when is the last time you didnt watch porn for 90 days ?

Also I have found that practicing 20 minutes of mindfulness meditation before I leave for work each morning to be profoundly life-changing.

So these are two practical things you can try, im unsure how spending hours getting lost in all that inner-child stuff could be beneficial on a practical level.

LegacyUser

KomradeBishop wrote: »

You say earlier that you have no friends and no social life, and personally (from experience) I don't think that type of therapy is going to be very useful in helping with that - and indeed, if you do research online about that type of therapy, it's hard to find any evidence of its efficacy for social issues (and I'd definitely be asking the therapist directly, what knowledge they have, of proof of it's efficacy for your issues - any stonewalling/evasion here when discussing that, and get rid of them).

I'll ask her tomorrow about it. This treatment was recommened to me by my current counsellor who specialises in IPT. In the past I've had 2 - 3 CBT counsellors.

This includes CBT - going once a week may be overkill if you're finding it hard to do everything that's set out for you in the last session - so what you can do is use the sessions to help set goals for yourself, work on figuring out things that hold you back, and help get a fresh perspective on things - and then wait before going back again, until you feel you're having difficulty with something, that you can't figure out on your own (then when you have enough on your plate to work on from the sessions, stick with that before going back again).

This struck a chord with me as the sessions were always a quick burst of 10 - 20 sessions usually weekly. It was fast and despite good intentions I never seemed to cope with the expected pace.

Anyway, that's just my (completely non-professional) opinion, I don't know what would suit you best - but it sounds like using CBT in this way, may help you with the social difficulties, whereas what you're doing now, may not.

Who knows - I'm confused and to be honest extremely irritated that I've been looking for help for over 15yrs and it is still ongoing. I've got to give this a try though.

But you seem to be hoping she'll take you by the hand and walk you through it.

I get this, but I don't know what to talk about and whether it will be relevant or whether I'll be overlooking something important. This issue is too important to me for me to be in control of resolving it.

She did say that my CBT sessions were too short, but I'm not sure how things would have progressed if they lasted longer as they stagnated too.

My current counsellor said I have deep rooted issues that CBT would not be able to resolve and that psychoanalysis would be the best option. I'm confused. Even if I think like some on here that CBT would be better, I'm no expert and probably would not be making a learned judgment on whether to continue or call this off.

LegacyUser

Hopefully last time I'll be posting on this thread...

I've been back and got my bill - £260 (€355) for one month of 4 sessions. Thats a side issue.

I'm considering commiting to a short period of time to see how things go. I don't want to give up, but to me it seems that we are in constant conflict. To her it is that she is analysing what I say and commenting on my statements. I see and ackonledge her POV but I get frustrated with the challenging of my thoughts and opinions.

Yes, I know that is what it is about, but I think we got off on the wrong foot and I won't allow myself to open up. I don't feel that any of my recent sessions have been productive.

I don't want to quit becuase at my stage of life this is really a last throw of the dice for me having a normal life.

I keep wondering if I should change therapist, but the waiting lists are quite long even for private (which I am doing) going through public can take up to 2 years to initiate treatment.

I'm confused and scared. We got off on the wrong foot and I think it is tainting things. I asked her if she had success with people in simialr situations to me and she did not give a clear answer - more of a politican answer about everyone being different. I asked about potential timeframe and again the answer was vague.

As someone with a background in engineering, I get frustrated with this type of answer. I like definitives.

I still don't know how to 'say what you are thinking'. Arriving at the sessions initially, my mood was posiitive. However, now I feel like I'm going to the execution chamber - full of dread about what is ahead. I think leave feeling frustrated, angry, depressed and isolated.

I don't think there are any other options for me. She did say that she believes that this is the best place for me. So did another counsellor. I'm scared that the clock will run out on me.

Anyhow, I'm going to give it possibly until summer - 2 months. That will be almost £1k spent. If there is no progress by then I don't think I've any choice but to end it. It is too much money to give away if there is no impact.

I feel like crying or throwing a tantrum

KomradeBishop

slate123 wrote:

I'm confused and scared. We got off on the wrong foot and I think it is tainting things. I asked her if she had success with people in simialr situations to me and she did not give a clear answer - more of a politican answer about everyone being different. I asked about potential timeframe and again the answer was vague.

I'd take that as a big warning sign personally - any therapist should be able to give you some kind of clear information, on how effective/suitable a particular treatment is for your specific issues.

It's true that every person is different, but if you have specifically identifiable problems (e.g. anxiety of a particular kind), it's reasonable to expect a therapist to know about research, regarding the treatments efficacy for those particular problems, and to be open to answering questions on that - i.e. you want to know if the treatment is evidence-based, if it has any evidence backing its efficacy for your particular problems.

It is recommended that therapists are 'interviewed' in this way, to verify their credentials and competency:
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2015/02/17/looking-for-a-therapist-key-questions-to-help-you-find-the-right-one/

However, there may be no harm sticking with it a short while, to see how you get on regardless - I'd just put a definite time limit on it, so that you don't risk coasting along with the same treatment, out of uncertainty.

I can understand how this feels, it's a frustrating position to be in, but 'interviewing' therapists in this way, and doing a bit of research of your own on the types of treatment offered, will help to find the right therapst/treatment faster.

Shrap

I've just read this thread for the first time and it strikes me that she has helped you reveal a number of issues that you have going on for you, that are possibly causing your reticence in broadening your life style, making friends and gaining insight into your difficulties, but you're not yet spotting for yourself that you have revealed them.

You mentioned your painful silences with the therapist and that when you told her how you kept quiet in order not to be forced to speak first, she described it as a war. It is a war. With yourself. Like an ongoing battle not to reveal yourself.

You say you get flustered and know you should just speak your mind, in hindsight, but you hold yourself back from it. Do you do this in relation to other people too?

You say the therapist has asked you to just trust her. Something we must do with other people if we want to form relationships, and it requires letting go some control and giving it to someone else. Is this an issue for you elsewhere in your life?

You say that her appearance has started to put you off taking her seriously. Are you using this as an excuse not to open up to her? Is this something you do with other people when you fear they are getting close to you? Do you pick up on something off-putting about them and swiftly reject them as not being right for you?

It seems to me that the therapist is acting as a mirror and that these issues (within the therapy session) are reflective of the way you control yourself in your life outside the therapy. Unless you realise that what is coming up here in therapy is actually what you yourself are bringing to the table (she hasn't brought anything up, has she? These issues are your's) and that your manner in the sessions do reflect the areas that you seem to have great difficulty in looking at with any great insight, you will continue chasing your own tail in a circle.

I suggest picking any one of those issues above and break your silence with yourself over them. You are in charge of recognising what you are doing/feeling, in the reflection of the therapy session, but what you are doing at the moment is asking the therapist to tell you where you're going wrong. In fact, it's you that is telling yourself what you do, by her asking hard questions (even the silence is a hard question) and showing you how you react.

Hope that makes sense. Not a therapist here, but from a stranger having read this thread just the once, that's what I think.

strandroad

Therapists should never make promises or discuss other patients so I would not expect her to engage much in this direction OP...

Psychoanalysis especially is chalk and cheese with engineering, so it might be making it more difficult for you.

You seem to be going through all textbook stages of resistance against psychoterapy though. Perhaps it would help you to research them to check if your reactions are more normal than it seems to you at the moment.

Shrap

slate123 wrote: »

I still don't know how to 'say what you are thinking'. Arriving at the sessions initially, my mood was posiitive. However, now I feel like I'm going to the execution chamber - full of dread about what is ahead. I think leave feeling frustrated, angry, depressed and isolated.

...........................

I feel like crying or throwing a tantrum

I think you're close to a break-through here. You are hopefully about to give your control the chop because of how frustrating it is to be faced with yourself in these sessions. Summarily execute it, if you will. Do cry and throw a tantrum. It might help you get cross with these issues of your's, take them out and examine them.

I see and ackonledge her POV but I get frustrated with the challenging of my thoughts and opinions.

Exactly. You said it here. This is exactly what you are being asked to do to yourself.

hybrid21

I've been to a psychoanalyst, counsellor, psychologist and psychiatrist.

I'm sorry to say it but I dont have much faith in psychoanalysis. A perpetual focus on the past can make people worse sometimes. What really matters is the present and future I think. CBT is scientifically well founded bit if you ever get to the point that you are hopeless - speak to your doctor asap. Psychiatrists are the last point of call in the system as they are very busy but they are generally excellent.

If you dont feel like you click with a certain mental health professional, ask your doctor for a referral to another one as the relationship is important. Keep plugging away and I guarantee things will get better

zeffabelli

slate123 wrote: »

Hopefully last time I'll be posting on this thread...

I've been back and got my bill - £260 (€355) for one month of 4 sessions. Thats a side issue.

I'm considering commiting to a short period of time to see how things go. I don't want to give up, but to me it seems that we are in constant conflict. To her it is that she is analysing what I say and commenting on my statements. I see and ackonledge her POV but I get frustrated with the challenging of my thoughts and opinions.

Yes, I know that is what it is about, but I think we got off on the wrong foot and I won't allow myself to open up. I don't feel that any of my recent sessions have been productive.

I don't want to quit becuase at my stage of life this is really a last throw of the dice for me having a normal life.

I keep wondering if I should change therapist, but the waiting lists are quite long even for private (which I am doing) going through public can take up to 2 years to initiate treatment.

I'm confused and scared. We got off on the wrong foot and I think it is tainting things. I asked her if she had success with people in simialr situations to me and she did not give a clear answer - more of a politican answer about everyone being different. I asked about potential timeframe and again the answer was vague.

As someone with a background in engineering, I get frustrated with this type of answer. I like definitives.

I still don't know how to 'say what you are thinking'. Arriving at the sessions initially, my mood was posiitive. However, now I feel like I'm going to the execution chamber - full of dread about what is ahead. I think leave feeling frustrated, angry, depressed and isolated.

I don't think there are any other options for me. She did say that she believes that this is the best place for me. So did another counsellor. I'm scared that the clock will run out on me.

Anyhow, I'm going to give it possibly until summer - 2 months. That will be almost £1k spent. If there is no progress by then I don't think I've any choice but to end it. It is too much money to give away if there is no impact.

I feel like crying or throwing a tantrum

Psychoanalysis relies on narrative and historical note taking. It doesn't work for a lot of things.

It's true that this can be a case of "how long is a piece of string..." and that the human condition is not like engineering. There is a lot of uncertainty- undefinables, grey areas...that one must learn to tolerate this....

It believes that "insight" is enough...... not everyone agrees. Somethings are trapped int he body....sometimes people need a little more than that.

It's not for everyone.

Greenduck

slate123 wrote: »

Hopefully last time I'll be posting on this thread...

I've been back and got my bill - £260 (€355) for one month of 4 sessions. Thats a side issue.

I'm considering commiting to a short period of time to see how things go. I don't want to give up, but to me it seems that we are in constant conflict. To her it is that she is analysing what I say and commenting on my statements. I see and ackonledge her POV but I get frustrated with the challenging of my thoughts and opinions.

Yes, I know that is what it is about, but I think we got off on the wrong foot and I won't allow myself to open up. I don't feel that any of my recent sessions have been productive.

I don't want to quit becuase at my stage of life this is really a last throw of the dice for me having a normal life.

I keep wondering if I should change therapist, but the waiting lists are quite long even for private (which I am doing) going through public can take up to 2 years to initiate treatment.

I'm confused and scared. We got off on the wrong foot and I think it is tainting things. I asked her if she had success with people in simialr situations to me and she did not give a clear answer - more of a politican answer about everyone being different. I asked about potential timeframe and again the answer was vague.

As someone with a background in engineering, I get frustrated with this type of answer. I like definitives.

I still don't know how to 'say what you are thinking'. Arriving at the sessions initially, my mood was posiitive. However, now I feel like I'm going to the execution chamber - full of dread about what is ahead. I think leave feeling frustrated, angry, depressed and isolated.

I don't think there are any other options for me. She did say that she believes that this is the best place for me. So did another counsellor. I'm scared that the clock will run out on me.

Anyhow, I'm going to give it possibly until summer - 2 months. That will be almost £1k spent. If there is no progress by then I don't think I've any choice but to end it. It is too much money to give away if there is no impact.

I feel like crying or throwing a tantrum

OP, if speaking is really that difficult, print this thread out and bring it to her and read it out. Some people are better at expressing themselves in writing or pictures rather than speaking. Your attitude towards this analyst will be seen by her as resistance to change and maybe she feels you need to experience this frustration to begin change in your life. She will not hold your hand through this as it wouldn't be helping you in the longer term.

You've said before that you want all these things but feel unable or helpless to change, so maybe this extreme anxiety and frustration for your therapist is a mirror of whats been going on in your life. If you feel your analyst is attacking you, put it back on her and see what happens. More than likely she will see this as a breakthrough in your treatment.

On another note, it is in her interest that you come back so her opinion that you are in the right place is merely that. An opinion... Really if this continues an you feel unable to engage, please reconsider your choice of Psychoanalysis. It would be unfortunate if this put you off therapy forever and there are some amazing people out there who CAN help you through this.

gsi300024v

You are resisting change, it's scary to change. It's not really complicated at all. You'll either open up a little and make progress or stop going like with the others you saw.
How can she say how long it'll take, you could open up at the next session or go and say nothing important for the next 2 months, make no progress and say it doesn't work.
It really is up to you. They can't tell you what is probably plain as day to them about you, it works best if you realise it yourself with their help.
It's scary to think you won't be how you've always been, how will you be if it works, sometimes we fear what we actually want without knowing it.
I've heard that sometimes maladaptive behaviours can sometimes get worse before you actually let them go and change.
Don't just I hope sit there for two months say not much and say right I've tried it and stop.
Having gone for a good while it's amazing how you can go talk lots and really it's just small talk really, than a sessions out of the blue you make great progress. I know when I talk lots, sometimes that's purely to control what is said and more importantly what is not said.
The fact you're still going at all, pat on the back for going. Try not be too hard on yourself, keep going, it'll take time to trust them and be more open. You can do it!

greenfrogs

Hi I didn't see you mention that you have been to your GP. If you haven't then I think you should. A GP can maybe recommend a therapy that will suit you best. I previously was in therapy with a particular psychotherapist last year. She used make me so angry and frustrated. At times I wanted to walk out of the session. She kept probing into my past saying there must be a reason for my depression. But I don't think there is. Not that I can think of anyway. I felt she would nit pick and twist my words. No therapist should be like that.

I am now in CBT and it's a much better fit for me.
You say you have tried Cbt before. Were these people properly qualified in CBT? I've noticed some therapists saying they include cbt methods in their therapy yet don't have the education to back this up.

You mentioned that you have been battling these issues for a number of issues. I have suffered from mental health issues for a number of years. I had been to 3 different therapists before I went to my GP. That was the day my life changed. I am now in one type of therapy and am on the waitlist for another type. I have a few different issues and the therapists did not have the ability to treat me. Now I'm in the hse mental system and I have found it so good.

gsi300024v

Interesting clip here from well respected therapist.

<Snip>

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gsi300024v

I heard it's interesting how what a patient hears or takes from a session can be very different from what a therapist hears and thinks has been taken in by a patient.

gsi300024v

<Snip>

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Big Bag of Chips

gsi300024v,

From Charter:

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