Category reorganisation (this is a big one)

Dav

So folks, as I mentioned over here, category reorganisation is pretty much sorted and we wanted to let you all know how it's shaping up.

First of all, there are now more categories. Here's the list:

• Talk To
• Regional
• Arts
• Business & Finance
• Computer Games
• Education
• Entertainment
• Home & Garden
• Motoring
• Music
• Politics
• Recreation & Hobbies
• Science & Health
• Social & Fun
• Society & Culture
• Sports
• Technology & Internet

Sys will continue to live under a Boards.ie Menu heading as it does now. So, with these new categories, some forums are moving to new places and some have become categories in their own right. I've done some screen-shots of the new structure and with the new homes for each forum. It doesn't show all sub-forums, but if there's a sub-forum in existence today, it'll still be there when we roll this change out. We're not deleting anything except some superfluous sub-categories like you'll see in Region -> Dublin County South -Dublin County South for example.

You'll also see I've brought everything that isn't Talk To, Regional and Sys under a new "Topics" heading. It's always a difficult decision to add a layer of interaction to a person's UI, but the reason we've done so is to allow for a much more simplified menu across the top of the site which is less intimidating to new people and is actually somewhat more intuitive by leading people with the word "Topics" and then listing the various categories we have. You'll have seen on the redesign mockups we posted that the menu along the top features this reduced interface (and has the word Browse instead of Topics - it's the same thing, but I think I prefer Topics myself).



So that's the "top level" and I'm going to have a post for each new category so we can maybe manage the discussions more easily.

Dav

Talk To:


There won't be any changes to this and it will continue to stand alone from the rest of the site as it's entirely commercial in its nature and is managed and moderated by the office.

Dav

Regional:


So we've taken Region out and given it a slight seperation from the rest of the site. There are a few reasons for this, but mostly the sorts of conversations that happen on the regional forums are quite different from the rest of the site. For example, if you're in Blanchardstown and you want an electrician, you're more likely to hit the D15 forum up rather than the Electrical as you're looking for someone specific to an area. You can have any number of different conversations on any number of different topics on the Regional forums, so giving them their own space makes a lot of sense to us.

Dav

Arts:


Arts has had quite a few forums taken out and moved to the new Entertainment Category. There's still some decision to be made regarding the sub-forums of Sci-Fi & Fantasy such as Dr Who, Joss Whedon, Red Dwarf that are essentially from a TV and Film background and that would in turn mean they might be better fitting to the new Entertainment Category where Film & TV content now lives.

Dav

Business & Finance:


So some changes here in moving of Accommodation & Property and Maritime into a "Business Sectors" category. I initially also had the Construction & Planning sub-forums as well as Farming in this new sub-category, but discussion with the relevant mods showed that these weren't the right fit. I'm debating whether or not we even keep the "Business Sectors" sub-cat, it doesn't seem to make as much sense as it did when I had 2 other very busy Topics included.

Legal Discussion is also coming under this Category, again, we think it's a better fit here given the nature of discussion, but an argument can be made to keep it under Soc (nownamed Society & Culture).

Dav

Computer Games


So the sometimes ambiguous "Games" is becoming a dedicated Computer Games Category which was the majority of its content anyway. I've kept the main forum as simply "Games" on the list and have promoted it to being the first forum on the list just so it's easy to jump straight in, but I'm 50/50 on changing it to Computer Games to make the change more obvious. The Games CMods and Mods have been doing a lot of tidying up of their Category anyway this last 12 months, so they've done a lot of work in streamlining it.

Dav

Education:


Education's had a tidy up, but not much else. I've changed what was the "College" forum into "Third Level" and have added all the Third level institutions in it as sub-category to make things more organised. I've done something similar for Secondary School. Again, for clarity, I've ignored alphabetical listing for the first few on the list to make it quicker to scan.

Dav

Entertainment:


A new Category and I think an easy one to agree with. Film, TV and Radio are all under this, along with the Celebs & Showbiz and Podcasting forums. I think it's a lot more intuitive to find Film, TV and Radio under this heading than Arts.

Dav

Home & Garden


Another new one, we're essentially lifting this very busy sub-category out of the old Rec and giving it more prominence. As I mentioned above, a discussion around Construction & Planning was had and whilst the conversations that happen on that forum tend more towards the professional and business end of things, it makes more sense to house this in a "Home & Garden" category.

Dav

Motoring & Transport:


So this, once again, a new Category primarily made up from the Motoring sub-category of Rec and some of the other transport related forums such as Aviation & Aircraft and Infrastructure.

Dav

Music:


Music remains unchanged.

Dav

Politics:


Politics gets its own Category as with everything that's going on in Ireland ATM, it's a massively busy area of interest. We have the Marriage Equality referendum in a couple of months as well as rumours of a general election as soon as October. Then of course there are the ongoing issues of Irish Water, the Eurozone crisis, the continuing mess in the Middle East etc.

Dav

Recreation & Hobbies


So this is Rec Jim, but not as you know it We've taken some of the former "Games" forums and have brought them under the fold here. There's definitely some room for movement with this - the Chess and Poker people in particular can make a strong argument for an inclusion in Sport (I'd broadly support both myself for what it's worth). I've left Health & Fitness in here despite changing Science to Science & Health because the forum is a mix of serious fitness gym bunnies and more casual and they've got a good thing going there and I'd rather not mess it up Food & Drink almost became a Category on its own too like Motoring, if things get busier there, we'll definitely revisit that I think.

Dav

Science & Health


So we've taken the existing Science and have added in forums previously living in Soc and Rec (and that stayed there under dubious circumstances ) and have brought it all together to make a more sensibly named Category overall. I added in a Health Issues sub-cat, I'm kinda undecided on that now that I'm looking at it again, or maybe I'll add things like Eyeglasses and giving up Smoking in there. I welcome your comments on that.

Dav

Social & Fun


Not to be confused with Soc, this is for the more light-hearted forums on the site and so the obvious choices like CVPL and the Social Forums like BGRH and The Noc forum live here. This also seemed like the most obvious place for After Hours for us too within this new hierarchy.

The Hosted Category is being folded into this too.

Dav

Society & Culture


So, this is what was Soc. There aren't any major changes, but we've probably taken more out of this category than we've added. I put in a "Family" sub-cat where things like Parenting, Adoption and Separation & Divorce are going to live. Weddings could also be added to this. Some arguments can certainly be made for moving some forums on this list into Social & Fun too.

Dav

Sports


Sports, like Music, remains unchanged. My earlier comments about Chess & Poker notwithstanding, I don't think it will see any other changes, but I know the Mods and CMods there have been giving some thought to a tidy up like the Games folks had last year and there's certainly scope for brining Indoor Sports and Field Sports in groupings to make things a little neater, but that's another day's discussion I think.

Dav

Technology & Internet


Last, but by no means least is the freshly renamed Technology & Internet category. I've mostly just tidied this all up and I don't think there are any more changes required beyond that.

Dav

So that's everything, there are some immediate and obvious questions...

1) Why are you doing this?
I think we can all agree that the old Usenet Newsgroup categorisations from 20ish years ago have more than outlived their time. These new Categories simply make far more sense.

2) When are you doing this?
We'd like to do it sooner rather than later. The new layouts have received great feedback and we're working hard behind the scenes to turn them from our designer's plans into functioning web pages. I'd rather get these changes bedded in before we have the new layout to contend with too. There will be some technical work to accomplish for us too before we can roll it out.

3) What will happen to "My Forums" and "My Threads?"
Nothing at all, the changes in locations of some forums and categories won't have any impact on and followed forums and threads you've got.

4) What about Dispute Resolution?
The Current CMods agree that they will stick with any forums they currently oversee and share the work for the short term till we're all happy with how it's worked out. At that stage, we will more than likely bring in more CMods to share and rebalance out the workload accordingly. So, to give you an example, the Soc CMods will also be the CMods of Politics and the Rec CMods will also be the CMods of Home & Garden. Entertainment will have representation from the current Arts team and Recreation & Hobbies will have the current Rec team as well as the Games team. You will continue to see who the CMods are for any given forum on the bottom right of the page as usual.

As it stands right now, here are the old Categories, their CMods and what new Categories those CMods will be involved with:


There's a lot in this, it's an 19 post thread before any of you have even passed comment, I hope you'll see that my breaking it up like this is an attempt to make commenting more easy. I would greatly appreciate it if you had any comments to make on a given category that you put it in bold letters at the start of your post so I can quickly scan and collate feedback and that you give every Category a separate post like I have here. It will save me a huge amount of time if we can run it this way and it'll also make sure nothing gets missed. Also, given the rather large size of the screen shots, please don't quote the images.

Spear

Technology and Internet


One small bit of feedback then, Nets and Comms (the sub cat, not the forum itself) may need a bit of a rename. Broadband is a large draw for people, and the forums existence isn't obvious from that viewlevel. Possibly something like Broadband and Networks instead.

Insect Overlord

Society & Culture

I would have expected Clearasil & Hormones and Oulwans & Oulfellas to be in "Social & Fun", but otherwise everything seems to make perfect sense. Impressive work!

LoonyLovegood

Society and Culture

I think Clearasil and Hormones would do better under the Social and Fun category. It's more of a social forum than a cultural one.

Dav

There's a very solid argument for moving TGC, TLL, C&H and Oulwans into Social & Fun - I'll go with majority consensus on this one - maybe even a Poll in the relevant forums to see what the communities think?

Tabnabs

IMHO, Survivalism and Self Sufficiency should be in Society and Culture rather than Recreation and Hobbies.

entropi

After a look at the name, maybe changing the Social Networks sub forum of Web to Social Media might look more pleasing to the eye and is in keeping with the times.

ballsymchugh

politics cafe is now a sub forum of AH and politics?
agree with your doubting on the health issues sub forum though.

GLaDOS

ballsymchugh wrote: »

politics cafe is now a sub forum of AH and politics?

It's just a link from AH, same as it is now

Harry Palmr

Move Media and News to Arts I realise its not a "neat" fit but its basically lost in Soc. Just the odd thread is well thumbed.

Spear

Sys,

maybe I can't see it, but what about the random stuff under the Sys cat, e.g. AMA, Cuckoos nest etc?

Myrddin

Computer Games & Recreation and Hobbies

Hey Dav, great work by all involved, there's clearly tons to consider with such a fundamental reorganisation of the site. It was badly, badly needed, & from what I see, it's been given the care and attention it deserves - again, great work. I do have some questions, first on the Computer Games category:

1) The current name for the main forum in the soon to be Video Games category, is 'Games'. I always felt while bare faced and functional, it's a bot vague and doesn't convey the notion that the forum is a bit of a hub for the users of the category. Is there any merit in renaming it to something a bit more perhaps indicative of what it is, something like Games Central maybe? I feel if the forum had its own identity, rather than having the same name as the category, it could help establish the forum even more & help develop it further.

2) Mobile Games seems to be broken away from the main Games forum in the mock up, it's currently a sub forum of Games & was placed there to kind of centralise all the actual 'games; related chat closer together. Is there any reason why it's not listed as a subforum of the Games forum anymore?

3) Similarly, the 'Popular Games' sub-cat was moved into the Games forum recently, again to bring game-centric chat closer together. In the mock ups, it's split away back out on its own again. Is this purposely done, to expand out the more hidden away avenues of the category now that that the category is dedicated to video games?

4) Game Awards is also shown in the mock ups. This forum only becomes active when the awards are running around Christmas time. The forum completely dies thereafter, so we decided a while back to retire this forum when it's redundant, and bring it back every year when needed. Is this still an option for us?

On the Recreation and Hobbies front:

1) Chess really shouldn't end up there. I'll advise the Chess mods of this question, & perhaps they might involve the community to give their opinions. There was a drive a while back to move Chess to the Sports category, that's how seriously the game is taken and played by its community here on boards. We felt leaving the Chess forum in the current Games category was best at the time, because it was only then that the forum was given it's own full on forum status, whereas it had previously been a subforum of the now retired Strategy forum. The idea was to let the Chess forum grow and develop, to later revisit the notion of moving it to Sports. At this stage, it's ready I feel to make the move. Moving it to a hobbyist category won't go down well with the locals at all

2) Poker, I'm not as knowledgeable on. If the Recreation and Hobbies category is a good fit for it, then that's fine with me. I'll alert the Poker mods anyway, and perhaps they can give some feedback and input on it.

That's it for now I think

Sad Professor

Technology and Internet:

Any chance the Mac forum could be moved out of Operating Systems and into Computers and Technology, or even Consumer Electronics? The forum has always been for the discussion of Mac hardware and software, not just the Mac operating system. This was never really an issue in the past, but since Apple Media Devices was renamed Apple Devices, it loses a lot of traffic to that forum. New users assume “devices” also means computers. The Apple Devices mods are good about moving threads over, but I get tired of reporting them all.

Myrddin

Arts & Entertainment

The Sci-Fi and Fantasy sub-cat in Arts I'd question. At least for me personally, Doctor Who & Torchwood, Red Dwarf, Star Trek, Star Wars and Stargate franchises are all by far and away cemented in tv shows and films. If the goal is user friendliness and intuitiveness, then I'd be an advocate of moving the mentioned sub-cat/forums to the Entertainment category. As a user, I'd expect to find all those forums in the category that caters to tv and film, not the one that caters predominantly to creative arts etc.

Sad Professor

Arts & Entertainment

I agree with Myrddin above that the Sci-Fi and Fantasy sub-category belongs in Entertainment. There’s always been a lot of overlap with these forum and Television, so keeping them close together is a good idea.

And if Films is considered more Entertainment then Arts, then I’d argue Comics belongs in Entertainment as well.

Dades

As a regular poster in SF&F I think I agree it might fare better in Entertainment (and indeed thrive).

SF is mainstream these days. The geeks shall inherit the earth.

L1m1tless

Myrddin wrote: »

Computer Games & Recreation and Hobbies


On the Recreation and Hobbies front:

1) Chess really shouldn't end up there. I'll advise the Chess mods of this question, & perhaps they might involve the community to give their opinions. There was a drive a while back to move Chess to the Sports category, that's how seriously the game is taken and played by its community here on boards. We felt leaving the Chess forum in the current Games category was best at the time, because it was only then that the forum was given it's own full on forum status, whereas it had previously been a subforum of the now retired Strategy forum. The idea was to let the Chess forum grow and develop, to later revisit the notion of moving it to Sports. At this stage, it's ready I feel to make the move. Moving it to a hobbyist category won't go down well with the locals at all

I agree with this, Chess is seen as a Sport in many countries, although not in Ireland at the moment.
I would imagine the chess forum users would be upset by being moved to "Recreation and Hobbies" but I am only guessing here based on my own feelings, I will see if I can get some more opinions from the users.

Spear

Given the long term and far reaching consequences of the reorganisation, does it not warrant a sitewide announcement?

Dav

It's got Front page and will have news letter presence. I'd much rather have a slow and steady flow of feedback so I can manage it properly rather than a tidal wave.

EnPassant

I also think that Sport is a better place for the Chess forum. It is very competitive with leagues and tournaments all over the country. To me, sport is the natural place for it.

Cookie_Monster

On the regional cat (and some others) why is the layout of North East and North West different?

IE North East is white background and black / blue writing while North West is blued out background and white writing. That doesn't make sense to me. Abroad is the same but there seems to be more valid reasons for highlighting that as different to the regional fora.

Moonbeam

I am delighted to see a secondary school forum.

I like the new layout it tidies things up a lot.

SoftMicro

Accommodation & Property

Not sure about moving that under Business as it would seem more of a Soc category where it currently is. Yes for sure there is an element of Business re: mortgage loans, buying selling houses, however there is probably more of an element of noisy neighbours, leaky pipes etc. Just my two cents.

Top job done to date, looks an impressive shake up.

The_Morrigan

SoftMicro wrote: »

Accommodation & Property

Not sure about moving that under Business as it would seem more of a Soc category where it currently is. Yes for sure there is an element of Business re: mortgage loans, buying selling houses, however there is probably more of an element of noisy neighbours, leaky pipes etc. Just my two cents.

Top job done to date, looks an impressive shake up.

Also on A&P. We get a lot of my neighbours tree/fence/child is getting on my wick as much as we get discussion on the property market. We also have the tenants/landlord rights element which is more legal than business.

I would have thought Home and Garden would have been a better fit.

SoftMicro

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Also on A&P. We get a lot of my neighbours tree/fence/child is getting on my wick as much as we get discussion on the property market. We also have the tenants/landlord rights element which is more legal than business.

I would have thought Home and Garden would have been a better fit.

Unless split it in two:
business > property (Mortgage rates, buying/selling, investments and landlords etc.)

and the other:
soci > accommodation (noisy neighbors, trees, rent relief queries etc.)

Maybe a bit messy but it is a very mixed bag in the one forum

Ted_YNWA

general

Just a general question there Dav, how will this impact on followed threads/forums?

Will existing followed threads auto-relink to the new location or will it be starting with a clean slate for users?


Apologies if I skipped over this in your posts.


Sorry, meant to add looks good btw, some categorisations can be a bit obscure, which is understandable as the discussions that can happen can veer in 14 directions after 5 threads.

Tokyo

Ted_YNWA wrote: »

general

Just a general question there Dav, how will this impact on followed threads/forums?

Will existing followed threads auto-relink to the new location or will it be starting with a clean slate for users?


Apologies if I skipped over this in your posts.


Sorry, meant to add looks good btw, some categorisations can be a bit obscure, which is understandable as the discussions that can happen can veer in 14 directions after 5 threads.

From here:

Dav wrote: »

3) What will happen to "My Forums" and "My Threads?"
Nothing at all, the changes in locations of some forums and categories won't have any impact on and followed forums and threads you've got.

Threads are identified by a threadID - the category that they fall under has no bearing on that. Followed threads should not be affected.

Ted_YNWA

mike_ie wrote: »

From here:



Threads are identified by a threadID - the category that they fall under has no bearing on that. Followed threads should not be affected.

Thanks Mike, that was the only question I missed in that

Overheal

Technology

I spotted that you didn't upload any detail view of the tech category - presumably no changes were made within the category, but this is the best time to discuss it. There are a lot of appendaged forums in the category when there doesn't need to be that much fragmentation. For instance, there is a Cloud and Distributed Computing forum, and there is also a Servers & Systems forum - which makes no sense. And the top level of the category is under-utilized - Tech only has 13 top level forums, while the average of other categories looks to be a couple dozen.

The entire Web forum and its sub-forums sound like they might fit better in the Business and Finance category, for people to discuss social media and internet marketing, etc.

Computers and Technology, Building and Upgrading, Laptops, Overclocking and Modding, Graphics: Re-jigger it to be New Technology (or Tech News), Notebooks, Desktops, Tablets. Upgrading and Modding should be a new joint forum.

Electronics should be it's own discrete forum along with Robotics.

The_Conductor

Dav wrote: »

So some changes here in moving of Accommodation & Property and Maritime into a "Business Sectors" category. I initially also had the Construction & Planning sub-forums as well as Farming in this new sub-category, but discussion with the relevant mods showed that these weren't the right fit. I'm debating whether or not we even keep the "Business Sectors" sub-cat, it doesn't seem to make as much sense as it did when I had 2 other very busy Topics included.

Legal Discussion is also coming under this Category, again, we think it's a better fit here given the nature of discussion, but an argument can be made to keep it under Soc (nownamed Society & Culture).

Dav- my tuppence- is that I genuinely do not feel that the Business grouping is an appropriate home for the Accommodation and Property forum. Certainly we do get the odd query relating to finances and/or mortgages- however, they are in a minority- mostly its queries relating to the Residential Tenancies Act (2004) alongside a bewildering array of issues from tenants, landlords, newspaper articles, various discussions including price trends, people's experiences of hunting for property, problems that occur (burst radiators, problems with various trades etc).

If anything having it as a Soc Cat is the most convenient home for it. Under Biz- it really would be like a fish out of water- certainly there are some Biz aspects to what is posted there- however, it is in a more stand-alone manner, quite ringfenced into discrete topics, and the entire raison d'etre of the forum is to enable discussion by the various interests- on relevant topics.

We honestly have more cross-over with State Benefits and the Gardening and DIY forums- than any other forums- and moving us to a Biz category would fundamentally change the ethos of the forum..........

I implore you to rethink the move for Accommodation and Property from its current Soc Cat home.

Thankyou.

The_Conductor

SoftMicro wrote: »

Unless split it in two:
business > property (Mortgage rates, buying/selling, investments and landlords etc.)

and the other:
soc > accommodation (noisy neighbors, trees, rent relief queries etc.)

Maybe a bit messy but it is a very mixed bag in the one forum

It is quite a mixed bag having both in the one forum, as at the moment- however the flipside of that coin is we get very good interaction from a wider cross section of the community when any issues arise- and forum users are very often offered ideas and/or perspectives that enable them to think in ways they might not have considered- and wouldn't consider- if they hadn't encountered landlords or other people who may have had to deal with their issues from a different angle.

It might seem to some people like a mess- but it does work.

Cookie_Monster

Dav wrote: »

Business & Finance:

So some changes here in moving of Accommodation & Property and Maritime into a "Business Sectors" category..

Really??

That's baffling, why is it under business when no other transport related forum is? The vast bulk of that forum is directly transport and/or enthusiast related with few, if any, actual hard business topics in it.
Why is it different to motors, C&T, Trains & Rail, buses, Aviation & Aircraft all of which sit under one heading?

Incidentally what's the difference between trains and planes that one is a main cat and one sits under C&T?

mikhail

Just on the chess forum: the bulk of posting there in recent years has been relating to competitive chess - the official Leinster leagues, major tournaments, etc. While I understand the perception of chess as a board game and 'just' a hobby, that community doesn't consist of casual players and would imo fit better into sport.