The Death of Diesel Engines Finally A step Closer !

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1096554_uk-official-says-encouraging-diesel-cars-to-lower-carbon-was-wrong



http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1096554_uk-official-says-encouraging-diesel-cars-to-lower-carbon-was-wrong


Any serious motor enthusiast can't argue with me about the end of diesel finally, will be a good for motoring over all.

Truckermal

I suppose you must a over 2 million miles of flawless motoring on your Hotpoint at this stage..:rolleyes:

Bpmull

There are plenty of studies that have shown that older petrols have higher NOx emissions than diesels and that over the life of the car diesels produce lower overall NOx emissions as they are more consistent petrols get progressively worse as they age the cat degrades etc etc.

Anyway last time I checked petrols produce far higher hydrocarbons than diesels that's a fact. One of the main compounds that make up the hc emissions is benzene. Benzene is found in ciggerettes it's highly carcinogenic easily as bad as NOx but all these arguments chose to ignore this. Also there is no hiding the fact that petrols produce more CO2 and CO emissions.

At the end of the day one is as bad as the other diesel isn't as bad as it's made out to be in alot of ways it's better than petrol. So getting rid of diesels won't save the planet.

Cuddlesworth

Bpmull wrote: »

There are plenty of studies that have shown that older petrols have higher NOx emissions than diesels and that over the life of the car diesels produce lower overall NOx emissions as they are more consistent petrols get progressively worse as they age the cat degrades etc etc.

Anyway last time I checked petrols produce far higher hydrocarbons than diesels that's a fact. One of the main compounds that make up the hc emissions is benzene. Benzene is found in ciggerettes it's highly carcinogenic easily as bad as NOx but all these arguments chose to ignore this. Also there is no hiding the fact that petrols produce more CO2 and CO emissions.

At the end of the day one is as bad as the other diesel isn't as bad as it's made out to be in alot of ways it's better than petrol. So getting rid of diesels won't save the planet.

Both types of engine have good points and bad points and suit specific driving styles.

The problem since 2008 is that our taxation system heavily influenced the type of car people were buying solely down to the yearly cost of motor tax. That needs to be changed to create a better market for car users.

Bpmull

OSI wrote: »

I think the general idea behind this recent push is that it's all well and good saving the planet, but it's not much use if we're all dying from lung cancer while doing so.

Well the benzene and other voc that petrols produce will give you as much lung cancer as the NOx. Actually afaik NOx isn't a carcinogenic as such but does cause respiratory problems. The only way to stop the air pollution is ban both.

professore

Particulates created by diesel is especially carcinogenic. I used to be a fan, but modern diesels are expensive and unreliable.

kona

Diesels are filthy, no amount of pfm will change that.

industrial revolution levels of smoke out of some of some of the more poorly maintained ones.

Truckermal

Truckermal wrote: »

I suppose you must a over 2 million miles of flawless motoring on your Hotpoint at this stage..:rolleyes:

Good one, I'll give ye that, made me laugh in work, I needed it, cheers !

Bpmull

professore wrote: »

Particulates created by diesel is especially carcinogenic. I used to be a fan, but modern diesels are expensive and unreliable.

Am no they are not carcinogenic. The issue is that some pm can get deep down in your lungs and affect asthma. Anyway that argument is void with the introduction of Dpf's.

Just as serious as exhaust emissions if not more so is the completely unregulated solid fuel emissions through the Island, in my village the cloud of coal smoke is far worse than any exhaust that has some kind of regulated emissions.

Even in Carlow Town where there is a smoky fuel ban I regularly see smoke coming from chimneys.

Nothing being done about solid fuel which is a very out dated way to heat any home. On oil I'll never go back.

Special Circumstances

The last time this came up we learned that modern diesels are :
VERY refined.
Definitely not noisy.
If they are noisy, then they sound better than petrol engines.


We now know diesel exhaust is just a little tickly (playful like) and definitely not cancer causing.



Tune in next week for - no one would ever delete a dpf, sure diesel technology from all the major marques is fierce reliable.




Walking round Limerick at night smells like burning plastic to me, nothing to do with diesels - dunno is that smokey coal or just mangey ignorant people burning plastic up their chimneys to save on bin costs?

*Kol*

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Walking round Limerick at night smells like burning plastic to me, nothing to do with diesels - dunno is that smokey coal or just mangey ignorant people burning plastic up their chimneys to save on bin costs?

Its the mangey ignorant people burning plastic.

colm_mcm

Let's burn more coal and turf to power electric cars

:rolleyes:

Marcusm

Bpmull wrote: »

Am no they are not carcinogenic. The issue is that some pm can get deep down in your lungs and affect asthma. Anyway that argument is void with the introduction of Dpf's.

I agree re DPFs and asthma, the issue is that early research is showing some level of worrying causation between the nano particles resulting from DPF burn off and more serious diseases, such as lung cancers. Where it gets to none of us knows at this stage.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Let's burn more coal and turf to power electric cars

:rolleyes:

There is only one coal power station left in Ireland AFAIK and my leccy comes from gas and a mix of renewable.

And because I drive electric at least I use energy as efficiently as possible and that actually makes me feel good, and passing garages. And I have no exhaust.

So I decided instead of talking about it all the time to finally put my money where my mouth is and I'll never go back.

Every 1 US Gallon (3.78 litres) of fuel produced consumes 6 kwh of electricity, over a 60 litre tank that is about 65 miles driving an EV.

This isn't including the energy required to drill which also consumes fuel, then transportation.

dgt

Militant eco nuts. I'm sick of it all.

So what about busses/commercials/ships. How about a petrol hybrid supertanker or an electric jumbo jet?

This is more europe bollox "watch our carbon footprint, we need to be greener" bla bla bla

I'd rather the pollution I can see than the pollution I can't

And you'll never coax me away from indirect diesel cars. I'll just keep polluting all round me. Stick that in your hybrid

Mycroft H

You'll take my diesels out of my cold dead hands. When something that can do 60mpg day in day out comes along cheaply, I'll change.

Irishcrx

God I hate Diesel engines, I get the whole fuel efficient thing but with the smaller engine petrol turbos now becoming more prominent they are catching up.

I just never got people shelling out big money for lovely looking motors (even BMW =] ) and then buying a big filty Diesel engine in it and claiming to enjoy it...no matter what is said torque, power etc you cannot say they sound better than a good straight or v6 engine or even a decent four pot turbo...they just don't.

Jeremy clarkson once said its not always about how quick it gets you there...it's about how it feels as it gets you there..

Autosport

I'll be keeping my diesel thanks

_Kaiser_

This thread reminds me of.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXZeq9eXAys

As Mycroft said, until they come up with something that can do the range at the cost of a modern diesel, I won't be giving mine up either - especially as property/rental prices are pushing people further and further out again - just ask anyone who has to trek across the M50 these days!

dgt

dgt wrote: »

So what about busses/commercials/ships.

They would fall under diesels too wouldn't you think ?

dgt wrote: »

This is more europe bollox "watch our carbon footprint, we need to be greener" bla bla bla

It's E.U-Irish Bollox that got us to the point we tax the most polluting vehicles less only concerned about C02 and not what will actually kill us.

DanWall

Suppose instead of Diesel Electric locomotives we will have Petrol Electric locomotives. (Doesn't sound right)

wotzgoingon

What happened bio fuel. Or even cooking oil for your diesel engine?

Foxhole Norman

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This thread reminds me of.....

As Mycroft said, until they come up with something that can do the range at the cost of a modern diesel, I won't be giving mine up either - especially as property/rental prices are pushing people further and further out again - just ask anyone who has to trek across the M50 these days!

At motorway speeds/driving most Petrols will still return good mpg as long as they're not something underpowered. My 2.5 Petrol was returning ~40Mpg on a trip to Midway and back, calculated too, the computer was only off by +- 1mpg.

Bpmull

wotzgoingon wrote: »

What happened bio fuel. Or even cooking oil for your diesel engine?

I did a college assignment on bioethanol as a transport fuel last year. The biggest problem with it is it often uses food sources as process feedstock this isn't very favourable due to global food shortages. So using food sources as fuel is kind of the main problem and all the land it takes to grow the crops. Although there is certain non food feedstock that can be used too. I had a fairly indept look at the emissions of petrol vs ethanol and the ethanol was favourable over all as a cleaner fuel.

Leonard Hofstadter

The evidence against diesel engines (in terms of their harmfulness to humans) is overwhelming. Also, a diesel produces 13% more CO2 per litre burned than a petrol engine. So a diesel engine that does 20% more mpg than a petrol is only about 6-7% better for CO2.

Petrols aren't as clean as a whistle, but they're a LOT better than diesels for us.

Leaving all of that aside, diesels have their place, for people who drive on motorway and/or drive over 18,000 miles a year. That's what they were designed for and that's what they were intended for, to make life more affordable for those who by necessity or by choice do a lot of driving every year.

They most certainly were NOT intended for Bridie to go down the road for a few messages or to go into town to pick up the kids after school, or for low mileage motorists - but that's what they're being used for at the moment because of Ireland's ridiculous taxation system that is totally skewed towards diesels - both on the new market and secondhand.

Even when manufacturers release low CO2 petrols, people still spend thousands extra on a diesel to save that extra €10 or €20 on car tax (admittedly they'll most likely get the extra cost back come resale time anyway). That's something that needs to change, and the sooner the better for everyone.

visual

Have to knock the diesel as it's far better than some hyped batter car that is always holding up traffic trying to improve its range.
Buy a bicycle or walk and holiday at home if you want to save the planet.

dieselbug

"The Death of Diesel Engines Finally A step Closer !"

Bit of an overstatement I would say. Yes, the diesel car will decline in the coming years due mainly to euro 6 emission regs.
While manufacturers have the technology to reduce nox by a large margin the cost will make it impractible for most I suspect. You dont want to know the cost of the exhaust treatment system on a euro 6 diesel.

On top of this I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the government will think of some way to "discourage" (£££) people from driving diesel cars.

Diesel will continue for commercials and will still be practical for high milers for many years yet.

Anyway, I will cling to my diesel grimly, just cant imagine me driving one of those soft running super efficient modern girly petrols. Give me a smelly manly cracklin diesel every day.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLxWAGfuvzQ

_Brian

Someone mentioned earlier that the big problem is diesel cars being sold to te wrong customers.
People who do small milage, round town trips should never be sold diesel cars. They never get the benifet of driving the diesel on long journies and they suffer financially down the road when the DPF blocks early.

Diesels make sense for people driving long journies regularly. We have two cars and drive 70k km's or more a year. There is no way on earth petrol cars would make sense for us.
I see my sister though who does 6 - 8k km's a year with her 2L A4 Diesel and it makes no sense. All short hop drives and she can't get any better than 40mpg.

MetzgerMeister

Most people here know about my "hatred" of diesel engines. I don't actually hate them but I also don't think that their death being a step closer is a good thing. It's quite obvious that they have their place for people doing big mileage. The fact that they can often cause issues is more down to the fact that all you can really get nowadays (at least 95% of the time) is a diesel and in most cases, buying a petrol instead is letting yourself in for trouble come sale time.

I know some will disagree with this but for the majority of people, this is the reality of it.

This country has already killed off the likes of the 6 cylinder or V8 petrol engines. I know I would prefer a 3 litre turbo diesel to a ****ty little 1.6T petrol if I had to make the choice.

Special Circumstances

I think we call agree that apart from 55% off the price of a bike every 5 years, the Greens didn't really achieve anything "green" or beneficial to the public.
"CFL lightbulbs and diesel - they're awesome in every way"