Glas choices

50HX

Just after finding out that as i am taking over the farm at home & as the herd number wasn't in my name last year i can't apply for Glas this year
having trouble in getting the relevant info from advisors this week so does any1 have answers to these

Low input Pasture - can you cut silage off this at any stage?

Trad Hay Meadow(hay or silage turned twice) - Can you graze at any stage?

Do the bird & bat boxes have to be purchased or can you make them up yourself

is the soil sampling only carried out once? if so that's a joke

Glas seems to be limiting but there are a few things that you can pinch handy money off of eg bee sand and orchard

any help on there would be great - not that i am in a panic now that i've to wait til 2016

Western Pomise

To be honest you are best off contacting your Teagasc or local advisor to get the correct answers to those questions,
with Aeos scheme (similar to GLAS) the Traditional Hay meadow one was a handy enough option to do,just had to treat it differently to rest of meadows on your farm.
Best of luck with the farm.......it's a bit unfair though that New Farmers this year cannot apply for GLAS in my mind as you would have a greater chance of getting in this year than next year or 2017,
W.P.

mauser77

We're does it say that new entries can't apply

Brian2850

mauser77 wrote: »

We're does it say that new entries can't apply

From Farmers Journal website......
"New entrants and farms with someone was added under a joint herd number will not be allowed to enter GLAS before 15 May 2015."

Surely they could have clarified this point before now.

blue5000

Brian2850 wrote: »

From Farmers Journal website......
"New entrants and farms with someone was added under a joint herd number will not be allowed to enter GLAS before 15 May 2015."

Surely they could have clarified this point before now.

Could be because they expect to be snowed under with applicants, this is the first twitch/move of the goalposts, no doubt there will be more.

ganmo

Brian2850 wrote: »

From Farmers Journal website......
"New entrants and farms with someone was added under a joint herd number will not be allowed to enter GLAS before 15 May 2015."

Surely they could have clarified this point before now.

This just gets better and better!

We were looking at doing the stone wall option turns out once it's a boundary wall you only get paid half.

mauser77

Brian2850 wrote: »

From Farmers Journal website......
"New entrants and farms with someone was added under a joint herd number will not be allowed to enter GLAS before 15 May 2015."

Surely they could have clarified this point before now.

No mention of it in the t&c's on dept website

Nekarsulm

Glas seems to be more of a scheme to reduce output from agricultural land, than anything g else.
To be honest, you would be better trying to carry a few dozen more ewes, or doing a night a week taxiing or almost anything else than setting yourself up for another layer of inspections and paperwork.

Corkfarmer

mauser77 wrote: »

No mention of it in the t&c's on dept website

I heard this aswel and have been through the t&cs and can't find it anywhere. Advisor doesn't seem to be aware of it either.

50HX

ganmo wrote: »

This just gets better and better!

We were looking at doing the stone wall option turns out once it's a boundary wall you only get paid half.

according to the Spec it says

"Stone walls entered for this action must be accessible and visible for maintenance. Walls with
scrub on or against them are not eligible for payment. External farm stone walls entered for this
action are payable at half rate except for external stone walls that front onto a public roadway,
private laneway or waterbody where the farmer has control over both sides of the wall for
maintenance. Internal wall lengths can only be counted once and must be maintained on both sides.
A stone wall that bounds a farmyard is eligible for payment at the full rate provided the participant
has control of both sides of the wall for maintenance."

50HX

just putting this out there if some of ye haven't read it already

can't add the full link so just add www

.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/glas/GLASSpecification23022015.pdf

generic2012

Low input Pasture - can you cut silage off this at any stage?

No.

Trad Hay Meadow(hay or silage turned twice) - Can you graze at any stage?

You can graze before the 15th of April and after it is mown, it has to be mown after the 1st of July.

Do the bird & bat boxes have to be purchased or can you make them up yourself

You can make them yourself but to specific specifications.

is the soil sampling only carried out once? if so that's a joke

Yes.

AP2014

Jesus this isn't good.

If I pick wild bird cover (WBC) in GLAS, will I lose my disadvantaged area payment on this area?

You will lose your disadvantaged area payment if you choose WBC.

Mac Taylor

Been having a look at this glas scheme and to be fair, I just can't see any value in it for me. Can't see a way to the 5k and when you take out all the start up costs, time, paperwork, inspections etc just can't see the point. I'm trying to simplify my farming life not complicate thing. All this shyte about increasing output etc etc what a load of claptrap. Rant over:D:mad:

generic2012

AP2014 wrote: »

Jesus this isn't good.

If I pick wild bird cover (WBC) in GLAS, will I lose my disadvantaged area payment on this area?

You will lose your disadvantaged area payment if you choose WBC.

I don't think that's the case. Cattle are allowed in after the 15th of March, so the land is used for agriculture during the year, which would mean payment of disadvantaged area wouldn't be effected.

It's €900/ha for up to 3 hectares, you'd have to be getting some DAS payment to make it not worthwhile.

AP2014

generic2012 wrote: »

I don't think that's the case. Cattle are allowed in after the 15th of March, so the land is used for agriculture during the year, which would mean payment of disadvantaged area wouldn't be effected.

It's €900/ha for up to 3 hectares, you'd have to be getting some DAS payment to make it not worthwhile.

I just read it here. Fair point though on the €900 though.

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/10-questions-on-glas-answered-176263/

MayoAreMagic

I have just been doing some figures here which led me to this question:

There is a cost of around 1000 or so to get the thing set up re planners etc. Is that for just the first year, or is there a similar charge every year?

generic2012

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I have just been doing some figures here which led me to this question:

There is a cost of around 1000 or so to get the thing set up re planners etc. Is that for just the first year, or is there a similar charge every year?

1 year. Plan is a one off cost and the nutrient management plan covers tge five years.

coolshannagh28

The cost is frontloaded .I can see a situation where if the scheme is oversubscribed it could be self financing for the govt

generic2012

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

The cost is frontloaded. I can see a situation where if the scheme is oversubscribed it could be self financing for the govt

Not a hope.

If the average plan costs €1000
and the average farmer gets an annual payment of €4000, which will be €20,000 over the five years
There would have to be 19 farmers who applied but didn't get in for every farmer that did get in.

There is room for at least 30,000 farmers
So in total 600,000 farmers would have to have been denied for the government to start making money.

Obviously a back of the envelope job that doesn't take into consideration the extra man hours the government are paying teagasc and the department for over the mess.

You can argue the exact numbers but it's ridiculous to say that will be self financing.

TUBBY

generic2012 wrote: »

Not a hope.

If the average plan costs €1000
and the average farmer gets an annual payment of €4000, which will be €20,000 over the five years
There would have to be 19 farmers who applied but didn't get in for every farmer that did get in.

There is room for at least 30,000 farmers
So in total 600,000 farmers would have to have been denied for the government to start making money.

Obviously a back of the envelope job that doesn't take into consideration the extra man hours the government are paying teagasc and the department for over the mess.

You can argue the exact numbers but it's ridiculous to say that will be self financing.

you are right that it cant be self financing. That's mad. The 1000 only applies if you get in. If you don't get in, you don't do nutrient plan so nett cost would be non rwfundable 500 euro.

AP2014

Lads,

What do you think are the chances of getting in if you don''t have SAC or SPA?

I was thinking going with 1HA wild bird cover, 9ha low input permanent pasture and then some stonewall and bat/bird boxes to get to €4000 a year.

Be a sickner to pay nearly €500 to apply and get nothing out of it.

generic2012

AP2014 wrote: »

Lads,

What do you think are the chances of getting in if you don''t have SAC or SPA?

I was thinking going with 1HA wild bird cover, 9ha low input permanent pasture and then some stonewall and bat/bird boxes to get to €4000 a year.

Be a sickner to pay nearly €500 to apply and get nothing out of it.

You'll get in this time. Tiers only come into effect in the case of oversubscription. There won't be 30,000 plans submitted by the deadline (extended or not) so if you're lucky enough to get a plan drawn up you should get in, regardless of what tier you're in. It won't be so easy come the second tranche at the end of the year I'd imagine.

The 1ha of WBC will put you in tier 2 so you'll still have a very good chance regardless, not that many tier 1s about.

Username John

AP2014 wrote: »

Lads,

What do you think are the chances of getting in if you don''t have SAC or SPA?

I was thinking going with 1HA wild bird cover, 9ha low input permanent pasture and then some stonewall and bat/bird boxes to get to €4000 a year.

Be a sickner to pay nearly €500 to apply and get nothing out of it.

That's the big question all right AP, I think a lot of lads are asking the same...

I know you sell silage, will you be ok with the level of fertiliser on the low input pasture? (I haven't looked at the terms and conditions, so I don't know what or if there are fertilser limits, but I would be surprised if there wasnt)

AP2014

generic2012 wrote: »

You'll get in this time. Tiers only come into effect in the case of oversubscription. There won't be 30,000 plans submitted by the deadline (extended or not) so if you're lucky enough to get a plan drawn up you should get in, regardless of what tier you're in. It won't be so easy come the second tranche at the end of the year I'd imagine.

The 1ha of WBC will put you in tier 2 so you'll still have a very good chance regardless, not that many tier 1s about.

Thanks I thought it was tier based from the start. My plan should be straight forward enough I would think. Not sure whats involved though.

Connemara Farmer

AP2014 wrote: »

Lads,

What do you think are the chances of getting in if you don''t have SAC or SPA?

I was thinking going with 1HA wild bird cover, 9ha low input permanent pasture and then some stonewall and bat/bird boxes to get to €4000 a year.

Be a sickner to pay nearly €500 to apply and get nothing out of it.

All the planners I've talked to reckon if you're tier 2 or 3, apply this year or pretty much forget about it. Now, that could be drumming up business, not sure, 5k have applied so far out of 30k places, who knows what will happen, there are lots of problems.

AP2014

Username John wrote: »

That's the big question all right AP, I think a lot of lads are asking the same...

I know you sell silage, will you be ok with the level of fertiliser on the low input pasture? (I haven't looked at the terms and conditions, so I don't know what or if there are fertilser limits, but I would be surprised if there wasnt)

My silage selling days would probably be over alright, although could keep 2ha for silage for neighbours.

I would just keep bullocks from march to november, would a bag of 18.6.12 do me to the acre? I am almost certain there are fert limits. Easing up on the silage cutting would help the land and can't argue with €314 a HA for just grazing the land.

AP2014

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

All the planners I've talked to reckon if you're tier 2 or 3, apply this year or pretty much forget about it. Now, that could be drumming up business, not sure, 5k have applied so far out of 30k places, who knows what will happen, there are lots of problems.

That 5k figure released by the department or how do you know con? Jesus looks like they could hit the 30k figure quick enough.

generic2012

AP2014 wrote: »

Thanks I thought it was tier based from the start. My plan should be straight forward enough I would think. Not sure whats involved though.

It is tier based but only if there are 30,000 plans submitted, this won't happen.

AP2014 wrote: »

My silage selling days would probably be over alright, although could keep 2ha for silage for neighbours.

I would just keep bullocks from march to november, would a bag of 18.6.12 do me to the acre? I am almost certain there are fert limits. Easing up on the silage cutting would help the land and can't argue with €314 a HA for just grazing the land.

Chemical N is limited to 40kg/ha, that's roughly 1 and three quarter bags of 18 6 12.

What was the ground used for previously?

coolshannagh28

generic2012 wrote: »

Not a hope.

If the average plan costs €1000
and the average farmer gets an annual payment of €4000, which will be €20,000 over the five years
There would have to be 19 farmers who applied but didn't get in for every farmer that did get in.

There is room for at least 30,000 farmers
So in total 600,000 farmers would have to have been denied for the government to start making money.

Obviously a back of the envelope job that doesn't take into consideration the extra man hours the government are paying teagasc and the department for over the mess.

You can argue the exact numbers but it's ridiculous to say that will be self financing.

Ridiculous that you took a tongue in cheek comment seriously

Farrell

AP2014 wrote: »

My silage selling days would probably be over alright, although could keep 2ha for silage for neighbours.

I would just keep bullocks from march to november, would a bag of 18.6.12 do me to the acre? I am almost certain there are fert limits. Easing up on the silage cutting would help the land and can't argue with €314 a HA for just grazing the land.

It's 40kg of N from artificial manure which would be over 4 (50kg) bags per acre.
Will the nutrient plan be about getting P & K up to index 3?

AP2014

generic2012 wrote: »

It is tier based but only if there are 30,000 plans submitted, this won't happen.



Chemical N is limited to 40kg/ha, that's roughly 1 and three quarter bags of 18 6 12.

What was the ground used for previously?

Selling round bales and grazing. Very little fert applied over the last few years. All old ground, well over 10 and more likely 20 years since any reseeding.

Bag and 1/2 of 18.6.12 would do me for grazing. My only problem is not sure if it has 4 varieties of grass in each parcel. There is a good few weeds in some but not sure on grass or how this will be inspected.

If I make 20k of it in 5 years and could sneak up the p&k levels I could even reseed in the future.

generic2012

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Ridiculous that you took a tongue in cheek comment seriously

Ridiculous that you took a tongue in cheek comment seriously

AP2014

Farrell wrote: »

It's 40kg of N from artificial manure which would be over 4 (50kg) bags per acre.
Will the nutrient plan be about getting P & K up to index 3?

Not sure on merits of nutrient plan or the logic behind it. Suspicious of why you have to soil test for DAS in the future. If you have high p&k indexes will it make you ineligible?

I don't but out 4 bags to the acre even now so reckon I am ok and won't be going over the limits anyway

generic2012

AP2014 wrote: »

Selling round bales and grazing. Very little fert applied over the last few years. All old ground, well over 10 and more likely 20 years since any reseeding.

Bag and 1/2 of 18.6.12 would do me for grazing. My only problem is not sure if it has 4 varieties of grass in each parcel. There is a good few weeds in some but not sure on grass or how this will be inspected.

If I make 20k of it in 5 years and could sneak up the p&k levels I could even reseed in the future.

If the grass is 20 years old there's a good chance the grasses are there, they will come out more when you peel back N anyway. Ryegrass, cocksfoot, crested dog's tail and fescue all very common and found in most fields only reseeded a few years previous, never mind 10-20.

Connemara Farmer

AP2014 wrote: »

That 5k figure released by the department or how do you know con? Jesus looks like they could hit the 30k figure quick enough.

Yeah Dept figure I think it was in a letter in the comic today, hard to say if they'll make the full 30k figure, I thought it would be over subscribed but there are really big problems with deadlines, LPIS parcels, the system the planners have to use online, and a whole host of other issues.

generic2012

AP2014 wrote: »

Not sure on merits of nutrient plan or the logic behind it. Suspicious of why you have to soil test for DAS in the future. If you have high p&k indexes will it make you ineligible?

I don't but out 4 bags to the acre even now so reckon I am ok and won't be going over the limits anyway

It's not 4 bags to the acre, unless they're 20kg bags.

AP2014

generic2012 wrote: »

It's not 4 bags to the acre, unless they're 20kg bags.

Nope 50kg ones here.

generic2012

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Yeah Dept figure I think it was in a letter in the comic today, hard to say if they'll make the full 30k figure, I thought it would be over subscribed but there are really big problems with deadlines, LPIS parcels, the system the planners have to use online, and a whole host of other issues.

The interest is there but the infrastructure isn't. There aren't enough qualified planners to do 30,000 farmers by the middle of May, regardless of the state of the online system.

Coveney opened too early. Department hadn't enough testing done. IFA pushed too hard.

The result is that every farmer now thinks it's confusing to enter and that money's hard got.

Farrell

generic2012 wrote: »

It's not 4 bags to the acre, unless they're 20kg bags.

Ok must be 40kg per ha so
You'd not get using urea so

Connemara Farmer

generic2012 wrote: »

The interest is there but the infrastructure isn't. There aren't enough qualified planners to do 30,000 farmers by the middle of May, regardless of the state of the online system.

Coveney opened too early. Department hadn't enough testing done. IFA pushed too hard.

The result is that every farmer now thinks it's confusing to enter and that money's hard got.

It could have been a good scheme, had they listened. Watching the media, no one is happy. It's a colossal mess. Personally I wouldn't go near it this year except for financial pressures, even then I think it's a big risk.

AP2014

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

It could have been a good scheme, had they listened. Watching the media, no one is happy. It's a colossal mess. Personally I wouldn't go near it this year except for financial pressures, even then I think it's a big risk.

If you weren't on commonage would you enter it? Seems like the low input permanent pasture is a no brainer at €314 a HA.

generic2012

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

It could have been a good scheme, had they listened. Watching the media, no one is happy. It's a colossal mess. Personally I wouldn't go near it this year except for financial pressures, even then I think it's a big risk.

Media is publicising private advisors and IFA supporting intensive farmers. Both these parties have vested interests. You're not hearing about the lads around the country who are getting €5000 (and very occasionally €7000) for just signing their name, and I can tell you they're happy, especially when the majority of them were afraid to even enter scheme because of the ****e that's out in the media and talked about the marts.

No scheme's gonna be good for everyone anyway.

Connemara Farmer

AP2014 wrote: »

If you weren't on commonage would you enter it? Seems like the low input permanent pasture is a no brainer at €314 a HA.

If I weren't on commonage I'd be looking at organics, possibly forestry, and diversification. Unfortunately I am on commonage so the only option I have is exploring the latter on my fenced land with poor access, such is life.

Short answer, me, personally, no I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

But that's me.

Connemara Farmer

generic2012 wrote: »

Media is publicising private advisors and IFA supporting intensive farmers. Both these parties have vested interests. You're not hearing about the lads around the country who are getting €5000 (and very occasionally €7000) for just signing their name, and I can tell you they're happy, especially when the majority of them were afraid to even enter scheme because of the ****e that's out in the media and talked about the marts.

No scheme's gonna be good for everyone anyway.

Out of interest who is getting the 5k & 7k for signing their name? What type outfits?

generic2012

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Out of interest who is getting the 5k & 7k for signing their name? What type outfits?

Large amounts of SAC is a big one, you'll hit €5,000 with 64ha
Lads with lots of river that have already been fenced for REPS and are basically farming low input and/or hay anyway
Lads around big lakes will usually get the SAC, rare birds and the like.

And combinations of the above. If you have a decent sized farm in some parts of the country you will have €3140/3150 from the pasture or meadow measures already. There is a good chance you will have some rivers fenced too. Put in 1ha of WBC if you need it and you have a tier 2, €5,000 GLAS plan there.

All you have to do is so sow 1ha of seed with a fertiliser spreader once a year for a total of €25,000.

There's lots of lads out there would call that a good scheme.

Connemara Farmer

generic2012 wrote: »

Large amounts of SAC is a big one, you'll hit €5,000 with 64ha
Lads with lots of river that have already been fenced for REPS and are basically farming low input and/or hay anyway
Lads around big lakes will usually get the SAC, rare birds and the like.

And combinations of the above. If you have a decent sized farm in some parts of the country you will have €3140/3150 from the pasture or meadow measures already. There is a good chance you will have some rivers fenced too. Put in 1ha of WBC if you need it and you have a tier 2, €5,000 GLAS plan there.

All you have to do is so sow 1ha of seed with a fertiliser spreader once a year for a total of €25,000.

There's lots of lads out there would call that a good scheme.

I've 83 hectares of SAC over 5 commonages and I think it's a bad scheme.

It's a max 42 hectare scheme afaik.

While I am tier one, there's no guarentee I'll get in before the July 3rd deadline for commonage management plans to be completed. There are also serious issues regarding the minimum overall commonage stock number to be reached by december 2018 - which doesn't take into account flock owners outside of the scheme - a recipe for over grazing which is also a penalty position. There's also the issues I may be paying two or more planners, depending on who the neighbours go with.

I'd call it, potentially, a dangerous scheme. As I said, if I wasn't under pressure, I wouldn't be looking at it, with the possible exception of getting the management plan info to abide by individual stock rates outside the plan.

generic2012

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

I've 83 hectares of SAC over 5 commonages and I think it's a bad scheme.

It's a max 42 hectare scheme afaik.

While I am tier one, there's no guarentee I'll get in before the July 3rd deadline for commonage management plans to be completed. There are also serious issues regarding the minimum overall commonage stock number to be reached by december 2018 - which doesn't take into account flock owners outside of the scheme - a recipe for over grazing which is also a penalty position. There's also the issues I may be paying two or more planners, depending on who the neighbours go with.

I'd call it, potentially, a dangerous scheme. As I said, if I wasn't under pressure, I wouldn't be looking at it, with the possible exception of getting the management plan info to abide by individual stock rates outside the plan.

What do you mean by 'it's a max 42 hectare scheme'?

I would have considered the commonage management plans seperate to GLAS itself. I know it's a big deal for you, but like the dairy farmers in Cork, the scheme isn't just for them. I wouldn't chastise the scheme just because it didn't suit me.

You're saying the Commonage Management Plans are a recipe for overgrazing because some flock owners won't join and therefore wont get a Commonage Management Plan? Surely those flock owners would be to blame not a scheme they didn't join? Are you saying the scheme should force all commonage farmers to join? And surely, as bad as any scheme is at trying to optimise grazing levels, it can't be any worse than not trying to optimise them at all?

Again, just because it's not good for you doesn't mean it's not good.

Edit: The penalty for over grazing only applies to people in the scheme. If you're following your plan you won't be penalised, regardless of what the lad who didn't join is doing or not doing.

Connemara Farmer

generic2012 wrote: »

What do you mean by 'it's a max 42 hectare scheme'?

42 hectares is the most area of land you can get paid on, with commonage anyway.

generic2012 wrote: »

I would have considered the commonage management plans seperate to GLAS itself. I know it's a big deal for you, but like the dairy farmers in Cork, the scheme isn't just for them. I wouldn't chastise the scheme just because it didn't suit me.

Not when one can draw down payment from commonage, then the CMP IS GLAS. I criticise it because it's a hames, and it needn't have been.

generic2012 wrote: »

You're saying the Commonage Management Plans are a recipe for overgrazing because some flock owners won't join and therefore wont get a Commonage Management Plan? Surely those flock owners would be to blame not a scheme they didn't join? Are you saying the scheme should force all commonage farmers to join? And surely, as bad as any scheme is at trying to optimise grazing levels, it can't be any worse than not trying to optimise them at all?

No, that's not what I said at all.

If it was a compulsory scheme it would be much better.

However lets take a hypothetical example. 5 farmers on a commonage, say the commonage min is 600 sheep. 4 farmers decide to go into GLAS, the 5th farmer doesn't go into GLAS. The 4 farmers in the CMP are obliged to have the commonage stocked to it's minimum number of 600 sheep by December 2018. The stock of 5th farmer outside of the CMP is not taken into account, in fact talking to a well informed planner today his way of describing it was "the system has no way of taking those sheep into account". So you could have 4 farmers with the commonage min of 600 sheep, and a 5th farmer with an extra 300, or more, or less. That is stupidity on a grand scale.[/quote]

generic2012 wrote: »

Edit: The penalty for over grazing only applies to people in the scheme. If you're following your plan you won't be penalised, regardless of what the lad who didn't join is doing or not doing.

The department were asked at their "information" nights, if a farmer is in a GLAS plan, and follows it, will that protect the farmer from an inspection.

No, was the answer.

It's been asked in other ways since, and no remains the answer.

ganmo

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

However lets take a hypothetical example. 5 farmers on a commonage, say the commonage min is 600 sheep. 4 farmers decide to go into GLAS, the 5th farmer doesn't go into GLAS. The 4 farmers in the CMP are obliged to have the commonage stocked to it's minimum number of 600 sheep by December 2018. The stock of 5th farmer outside of the CMP is not taken into account, in fact talking to a well informed planner today his way of describing it was "the system has no way of taking those sheep into account". So you could have 4 farmers with the commonage min of 600 sheep, and a 5th farmer with an extra 300, or more, or less. That is stupidity on a grand scale.

that really is stupid! Did they just assume that all commanage farmers would sign up

Connemara Farmer

ganmo wrote: »

that really is stupid! Did they just assume that all commanage farmers would sign up

I don't know what they did but that is how the system works. A GLAS plan isn't like an AEOS plan, a GLAS plan can be amended, but, it's still an issue. There are census figures to consult to give an idea of the stock, but then, whether they're all put to the hill, whether farmers outside of the plan increase or decrease stock each year, and other issues, it's just another big sign of how things go when arrogance takes over constructing a scheme like it. There is no need for the majority of problems to be honest.