Rough justice for rapist?

Letree

Rough justice or got what he deserved?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2981515/Justice-Indian-style-Angry-mob-breaks-prison-kidnaps-man-accused-raping-student-stripping-naked-dragging-four-miles-beating-death-street.html

AndonHandon

Not convicted when it happened which doesn't mean he didn't rape. It is encouraging to see India's outrage at the rape problem finally boiling over. Certain media sects would have you believe that rape is part and parcel of daily life in India but the reality is that the vast majority of people in India are appalled by the stories of rape.

StewartGriffin

Well, that's mad. I read somewhere that all Indians supported these gang rapes. Someone said it was part of the culture.

BlaasForRafa

Mob justice is not justice. The justice system in India is pretty awful, especially when it comes to rape and sexual violence but you can't have mobs rampaging around declaring themselves to be judge, jury and executioner. Especially since the guy hadn't even been convicted, what if dna evidence came through that he was innocent?

Also, I have a hunch that if the rape victim in this case was from a low caste that the mob wouldn't have spat on her if she was on fire. India is a deeply messed up country in many ways.

DEFTLEFTHAND

AndonHandon wrote: »

Not convicted when it happened which doesn't mean he didn't rape. It is encouraging to see India's outrage at the rape problem finally boiling over. Certain media sects would have you believe that rape is part and parcel of daily life in India but the reality is that the vast majority of people in India are appalled by the stories of rape.

Mob justice is not the right way to go about tackling the issue though.

Letree

I must admit when i first seen the article i was hoping it was the guy who was interviewed from his cell in that BBC Documentary. The guy who took part in the rape on the bus.

AndonHandon

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Mob justice is not the right way to go about tackling the issue though.

No, of course not. But in terms of a PR aspect for international perception of India it shows that the country is not just a happy hunting ground for hungry rapists.

darkpagandeath

This will end well Calling 3 page lock.

DoYouEvenLift

Pack of fuking idiotic savages, he wasn't convicted when they did this. Not that I'd agree with them doing this even if he had actually been convicted, but they could at least wait until the law had dealt with him. Pity all of them won't receive similar treatment for being illogical dumbasses.

Kevin McCloud

The youth of today are gone to fuck, the dole needs to be cut.

Baby Jane

I understand the public's anger, however this is taking things way too far.
If he was guilty of such barbarism, I wouldn't be shedding any tears, but I still think simultaneously that this ultraviolent, frenzied mob reprisal is just nuts.

Going by Facebook comments to an article on the Examiner recently about the guy who was interviewed in his cell, there's a lot of support for retribution like this. Something very reactionary and base about it. I started reading those comments hoping for a rational discussion and it was on a par with YouTube comments.

I, personally, can't condone it, however repulsed by that particular attitude towards women and all as I am.

I agree with someone who said above that they suspect there might not be as much anger had the woman been of a lower caste.

wretcheddomain

I don't agree with this.

If anyone is against capital punishment for a given crime, they should equally be against this type of grotesque murder.

The best course of action was to let the legal process go its way and have him incarcerated for a considerable period of time.

Though, we are talking about India here.

conorh91

I doubt anyone genuinely supports this. I mean even if you support the death penalty, you're unlikely to support its execution by mobs running amok.

Actions like this deprive victims of an acknowledgement of the injustice they have suffered, or from re-taking power back from the rapist.

Former Senator Niamh Cosgrave, who was a victim of rape, gave an impressive interview to RTE radio on her experience

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/you-raped-me-you-took-my-humanity-you-took-my-dignity-1.2123135

Baby Jane

conorh91 wrote: »

I doubt anyone genuinely supports this. I mean even if you support the death penalty, you're unlikely to support its execution by mobs running amok.

Unfortunately it seems (from reading comments to articles anyway) that there are people who do. Sure, they're not exactly putting thought into it, but the reams and reams of "He should be [description of torture]" in relation to the guy interviewed in his cell, was real mouth-foaming stuff.
Although if you mean it's probably just all talk and they likely wouldn't actually support it if it came to the crunch... you could be right, although this mob put it into practice.

obplayer

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Mob justice is not justice. The justice system in India is pretty awful, especially when it comes to rape and sexual violence but you can't have mobs rampaging around declaring themselves to be judge, jury and executioner. Especially since the guy hadn't even been convicted, what if dna evidence came through that he was innocent?

Also, I have a hunch that if the rape victim in this case was from a low caste that the mob wouldn't have spat on her if she was on fire. India is a deeply messed up country in many ways.

The Indian government has banned this BBC documentary in India.

bananador

Everyone deserves a fair trial and everyone is innocent before proven guilty. It doesn't matter if you are Bin Laden or a rapist.

darkpagandeath

bananador wrote: »

Everyone deserves a fair trial and everyone is innocent before proven guilty. It doesn't matter if you are Bin Laden or a rapist.

I think Innocent until proven Guilty is a western ideal. Older cultures have it the other way around.

bananador

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Mob justice is not justice. The justice system in India is pretty awful, especially when it comes to rape and sexual violence but you can't have mobs rampaging around declaring themselves to be judge, jury and executioner. Especially since the guy hadn't even been convicted, what if dna evidence came through that he was innocent?

Also, I have a hunch that if the rape victim in this case was from a low caste that the mob wouldn't have spat on her if she was on fire. India is a deeply messed up country in many ways.

"India is a deeply messed up country in many ways".

India has a population of 1.252 billion. their quality of life is improving every year. the media gives more air time to things like this. don't tar everyone with the same brush. its not fair.

i think more women get raped in western countries then asian or african countries, because alcohol plays a massive role. if a woman is drunk she can still get raped.

its typical propaganda. show that other countries are really bad and that ireland is a great place.

obplayer

bananador wrote: »

"India is a deeply messed up country in many ways".

India has a population of 1.252 billion. their quality of life is improving every year. the media gives more air time to things like this. don't tar everyone with the same brush. its not fair.

i think more women get raped in western countries then asian or african countries, because alcohol plays a massive role. if a woman is drunk she can still get raped.

its typical propaganda. show that other countries are really bad and that ireland is a great place.

Again, BBC documentary banned in India and shown yesterday on BBC4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W6WrShqKGE

Baby Jane

I agree it's definitely not fair (it's ridiculous) to tar all of India with the same brush - it's a massive country, and the victims hardly support a rape culture, and obviously the many many who have protested don't either.

I don't know that there's more rape in western countries though - don't know if thinking it might be the case means it actually is the case, or how drunkenness would have a bearing on this likelihood.
As a woman in the west, I feel very safe and never a fear of risking being raped when I head out.
In parts of India women don't feel as safe. So while I understand and agree with your defence of India, I wouldn't downplay the reality in pockets of it either.

Not sure what the propaganda could be? What's being discussed is based on real occurrences, real interviews, and none of them are about deeming Ireland a great place - the articles haven't even come from Ireland. Ireland isn't a *great* place but it's pretty damn good in a lot of ways, and certainly far better a place to live in for quality of life than many very poor parts of the world.

Benteke

Fair justice imo If your daughters, mothers or girlfriends were raped then you would not be complaining about mob justice if the rapist was to suffer in the most barbaric way possible, They must of been pretty certain that he did it, Good riddance to the low life scum

Baby Jane

Yeah but thankfully most of us don't have a relative who was raped so we're looking at it from an objective perspective.
The man wasn't even convicted either. If guilty he should have been punished of course, but not in that way, and by the courts.

Benteke

What do the courts do? give the rapist a few years, That's not justice while the victim has a lifetime of mental scars, Justice for the victims is watching the scum been stripped and dragged four miles while being beaten and pelted with stones

enfant terrible

Glad he's dead.

Chucken

Baby Jane wrote: »

Yeah but thankfully most of us don't have a relative who was raped so we're looking at it from an objective perspective.
The man wasn't even convicted either. If guilty he should have been punished of course, but not in that way, and by the courts.

How do you know how many people here have relatives who were raped?
Or indeed how many people reading this thread who were raped?

BlaasForRafa

bananador wrote: »

"India is a deeply messed up country in many ways".

India has a population of 1.252 billion. their quality of life is improving every year. the media gives more air time to things like this. don't tar everyone with the same brush. its not fair.

i think more women get raped in western countries then asian or african countries, because alcohol plays a massive role. if a woman is drunk she can still get raped.

its typical propaganda. show that other countries are really bad and that ireland is a great place.

This thread is about India, not Ireland. If you want to air your views about Ireland then start up a thread about that. Oh and thanks for your enlightening opinions about rape statistics, perhaps you'd like to give us the link where you got the stats to back up your opinion or else ya know people might think you're just talking out of your backside.

And if India is such a great place then perhaps you'd like to tell us why there is such a massive gender imbalance there?

gozunda

bananador wrote: »

"India is a deeply messed up country in many ways".

India has a population of 1.252 billion. their quality of life is improving every year. the media gives more air time to things like this. don't tar everyone with the same brush. its not fair.

i think more women get raped in western countries then asian or african countries, because alcohol plays a massive role. if a woman is drunk she can still get raped.

its typical propaganda. show that other countries are really bad and that ireland is a great place.

Watch this video and tell me again that is what you see!

[/quote]


Who is 'showing ireland is a great place'???? "it's not Fair' wtf? Was it fair on Jyoti Singh that was brutally attacked, raped and murdered?

I genuinely trying to figure out if you are an apologist for rape or just a pathetic excuse of misogynist "if a woman is drunk" wtf? Men rape because they can, because rape is a sick violence perpetrated by men against women. Those who would commit such heinous crimes need no excuse from you.

Are you actually blaming women as the cause of rape? Seriously?

How's is this womans vicious attack and rape "propaganda". Have you Absolutley no conscience or decency? The rise of the anti rape movement in India is a testimony to that girls life and death, the evil bastards who took her life deserve the utmost penalties of the law. As For the ridiculous premise that rape is not a serious issue in India here is a link for you to open your closed eyes.

http://m.indiatoday.in/story/india-rape-92-women-every-day-4-delhi-statistics/1/380956.html

Who here said anything about western countries btw as if that was any defence. Of course rape occurs elsewhere but nowhere have I seen such open and blatant defence of rape and hatred towards women as protested in the words and actions of the interviewed rapist and his scumball legal representatives. Of interest rapes are less likley to be reported in 'Asian and African countries' because women there are afraid to report rapes at the hand of violent offenders. Many Woman in India and Asia are treated as lower class citizens. Their rights are frequently subjugated in those societies because it is believed that men are somehow above women. Abdolute Bollochs

Just a little Samba

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

perhaps you'd like to give us the link where you got the stats to back up your opinion or else ya know people might think you're just talking out of your backside.

There are 2 rapes per 100,000 People per year officially reported in India, there are 25 rapes per 100,000 people per year reported in the UK and 26 in the US.

It is of course a sad fact that somewhere between 57% (lower end) to 90% (higher end) of rapes are not reported in India so these official figures need to be taken with a very large grain of salt indeed.

But even still if we adjust these figures to include the estimated number of unreported cases we end up with roughly 20 per 100,000 People per year. Which is a disgustingly high figure, in fact 1 per 100,000 is a disgustingly high figure.

However we can also note that this highest end estimate is still lower than the reported UK and US figures.

In the UK it's estimated that between 75 and 95% of rapes are not reported (page 34).
So the UK figures, if we take 25 per 100,000 as only being 25% of all reported cases (using the lower 75% of cases not being reported estimate) we still end up with an estimate of 100 rapes per 100,000 People per year, which is a shocking 5 times higher than India.

In the US it's estimated that only 32% of rapes are reported to the police, which means 68% go unreported, giving a more accurate estimate figure of roughly 81 per 100,000, again, 4 times higher than India.
You can also consider that it's estimated that about 25% of all rape cases in the US are gang rapes, you come to a gang rape estimate in the US which matches the total estimate of rapes in India.

Now, because India has a population of 1.25billion these figures add up to about 25million rapes per year which is a sickeningly high number, but per capita, it's actually lower than the US and the UK and not above the norm globally.

Time Magazine actually did a piece on this very issue in 2013.

"Rape in India: Why it seems worse than everywhere else, but actually isn't."



I'd like to end with a quote from this post I made the other day.

Just a little Samba wrote: »

Is rape and sexual violence against women in India a problem, yes, and it's horrible, like I said I work in this specific area, but is it any less common in Europe, feck no.

India just happens to have almost 20% of the worlds population and as such has a massive net number of instances per year. Gang rape as well is no more common in India than it is in the US or UK.
In the US 25% of all rape cases are estimated to be gangrapes but have you ever wondered why you don't hear about it?

Rape and sexual violence against women isn't an India problem or a caste system problem, it's a human problem which affects women on every continent on the planet, even in the "enlightened" west, so can we all stop pretending this is a problem for "them" over "there" and accept that it's a problem for humanity everywhere and stop taring a nation of 1.25 billion people as some sort of backward race of woman hating monsters just waiting to pounce on the next victim and accept that women everywhere are being denied human rights and being dehumanised by patriarchal systems which oppress and disempower them?

Yeah?

Cheers.

As an aside, I work for a human rights organisation in the area of gender inequality and sexual violence against women and am currently working specifically on the issue of rape and honour killings in South Asia having previously worked in the same field in Europe. I split my work year between Ireland and South Asia and am currently living in South India.

gozunda

Just a little Samba wrote: »

There are 2 rapes per 100,000 People per year officially reported in India, there are 25 rapes per 100,000 people per year reported in the UK and 26 in the US.

It is of course a sad fact that somewhere between 57% (lower end) to 90% (higher end) of rapes are not reported in India so these official figures need to be taken with a very large grain of salt indeed.

But even still if we adjust these figures to include the estimated number of unreported cases we end up with roughly 20 per 100,000 People per year. Which is a disgustingly high figure, in fact 1 per 100,000 is a disgustingly high figure.

However we can also note that this highest end estimate is still lower than the reported UK and US figures.

In the UK it's estimated that between 75 and 95% of rapes are not reported (page 34).
So the UK figures, if we take 25 per 100,000 as only being 25% of all reported cases (using the lower 75% of cases not being reported estimate) we still end up with an estimate of 100 rapes per 100,000 People per year, which is a shocking 5 times higher than India.

In the US it's estimated that only 32% of rapes are reported to the police, which means 68% go unreported, giving a more accurate estimate figure of roughly 81 per 100,000, again, 4 times higher than India.
You can also consider that it's estimated that about 25% of all rape cases in the US are gang rapes, you come to a gang rape estimate in the US which matches the total estimate of rapes in India.

Now, because India has a population of 1.25billion these figures add up to about 25million rapes per year which is a sickeningly high number, but per capita, it's actually lower than the US and the UK and not above the norm globally.

Time Magazine actually did a piece on this very issue in 2013.

"Rape in India: Why it seems worse than everywhere else, but actually isn't."

I'd like to end with a quote from this post I made the other day.

As an aside, I work for a human rights organisation in the area of gender inequality and sexual violence against women and am currently working specifically on the issue of rape and honour killings in South Asia having previously worked in the same field in Europe. I split my work year between Ireland and South Asia and am currently living in South India.

I don't dispute your sincerity BUT the problem with estimates is that they are estimates. The Indian goverment are desperate to underplay the culture of rape in that country. Those estimated statistics on rape in India are based on no concrete evidence that I can determine.

Two interesting articles on statistics

http://www.businessinsider.com/736-of-all-statistics-are-made-up-2010-2?IR=T



http://public.wsu.edu/~taflinge/evistats.html

ThunbergsAreGo

This is murder, plain and simple.

Will all those present/who took part be charged with something?

The first picture is like that Episode out of Black Mirror

Just a little Samba

gozunda wrote: »

I don't dispute your sincerity BUT the problem with estimates is that they are estimates. The Indian goverment are desperate to underplay the culture of rape in that country. Those estimated statistics on rape in India are based on no concrete evidence that I can determine.

The Indian statics come from research carried out by various NGO's (including the one I work for, who do similar research on 6 continents) and feminist activists and academics.

The statistics from the UK and US on the other hand both come from research carried out by government agencies.

My take from that (and my actual experience) is the NGO's and academics are far more likely to have a "true" representation of the figures as understating the problem would be of no benefit to them at all, where as government bodies would have a vested interest in making sure it doesn't look too bad to keep the bosses happy.

Hell, if myself and my colleagues wanted to guarantee our jobs would be funded until retirement we'd be inflating the figures as much as possible, instead of just being realistic. Thankfully we have some level of professionalism and as such we try to be as accurate as possible.

Hell, I only picked the US and UK, if I wanted to make the figures look "good" I could have picked Sweden...