Buying in Woodstown, Knocklyon

Danjamin1

I'm currently looking at buying a house in Woodstown estate in Knocklyon. It's a nice estate and the houses are very nice, they seem well built and of good quality.

I know traffic can be heavy in the morning and evening as an estate agent informed me of this fact, but aside from that is there anything else I should know about the area?

Any information would be great, whether it's good or bad!

Tabnabs

Do a search for Woodstown, it comes up now and then. Some trouble with burglaries and theft lately. There is a halting site on Stocking Hill which gives some residents concern.

MrWalsh

Tabnabs wrote: »

Do a search for Woodstown, it comes up now and then. Some trouble with burglaries and theft lately. There is a halting site on Stocking Hill which gives some residents concern.

The Stocking Hill halting site is relatively quiet (although I did almost drive into a bare knuckle fight there before that had spilled out into the road). Far worse and closer to Woodstown is the Daletree halting site. It ranges from quiet to very troublesome. Lately it hasnt been too bad. When it is bad there is a lot of petty theft and aggressive behaviour locally.

The traffic is really appalling there in the mornings, so much so that I actually drive away from the M50 through the estates to Parklands to get back out on the main road and into the queue. There is a complete bottleneck at the Woodstown roundabout that needs to be addressed but despite letters to local politicians apparently the council are not interested.

Id say its a grand area overall but if I had the choice Id prefer to buy further into Knocklyon or the older part of Firhouse. The infrastructure is already bad and now with them pushing to sell up on Stocking Lane again its not going to get any better.

Danjamin1

Yeah I tried searching but there wasn't much coming up about it. It's mentioned here and there in a couple of threads but nothing much is mentioned. That's interesting to hear about the halting site, I remember hearing a few years back that there was one planned somewhere out that direction, didn't realise it was nearby to Woodstown.

Danjamin1

MrWalsh wrote: »

The Stocking Hill halting site is relatively quiet (although I did almost drive into a bare knuckle fight there before that had spilled out into the road). Far worse and closer to Woodstown is the Daletree halting site. It ranges from quiet to very troublesome. Lately it hasnt been too bad. When it is bad there is a lot of petty theft and aggressive behaviour locally.

The traffic is really appalling there in the mornings, so much so that I actually drive away from the M50 through the estates to Parklands to get back out on the main road and into the queue. There is a complete bottleneck at the Woodstown roundabout that needs to be addressed but despite letters to local politicians apparently the council are not interested.

Id say its a grand area overall but if I had the choice Id prefer to buy further into Knocklyon or the older part of Firhouse. The infrastructure is already bad and now with them pushing to sell up on Stocking Lane again its not going to get any better.

Ah really? That's all bad to hear. The houses are really nice and the estate seems great so it's a shame. I don't think it'll turn me off the area but it's good to know. Are you living in Woodstown or nearby?

Tabnabs

MrWalsh wrote: »

The Stocking Hill halting site is relatively quiet (although I did almost drive into a bare knuckle fight there before that had spilled out into the road). Far worse and closer to Woodstown is the Daletree halting site. It ranges from quiet to very troublesome. Lately it hasnt been too bad. When it is bad there is a lot of petty theft and aggressive behaviour locally.

The traffic is really appalling there in the mornings, so much so that I actually drive away from the M50 through the estates to Parklands to get back out on the main road and into the queue. There is a complete bottleneck at the Woodstown roundabout that needs to be addressed but despite letters to local politicians apparently the council are not interested.

Id say its a grand area overall but if I had the choice Id prefer to buy further into Knocklyon or the older part of Firhouse. The infrastructure is already bad and now with them pushing to sell up on Stocking Lane again its not going to get any better.

You're dead right, it was the Dale Tree one I was thinking of, just couldn't remember the name and got it mixed up with Stocking Lane.

The wonderful thing about the traffic (at that junction in particular) is the rezoned land higher up where they want to build thousands of houses. The local councillors effectively shrugged their shoulders when I asked for their opinion on the rezoning without any traffic alleviation plans.

They are probably rubbing their hands with glee thinking of all the extra LPT money SDCoCo will receive...

MrWalsh

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Ah really? That's all bad to hear. The houses are really nice and the estate seems great so it's a shame. I don't think it'll turn me off the area but it's good to know. Are you living in Woodstown or nearby?

Nearby and I have lived my whole life within 1km of it - before it was even there lol!!

I suppose I should have tempered my last post with good stuff. Realistically the only bad stuff is that its between 2 halting sites (which have been quiet for a while now) and the traffic is desperate in the mornings - actually though its least bad from the Woodstown entrance onto that roundabout.

But theres lots of good things - its very close to the Dublin mountains so access to nice walks is good. The new LIDL at Beechdale is great! The bus is regular and a good service, also because its close to the terminus you never have to worry that the bus will be full. Youve a Spar, doctors clinic, chemist, off licence and takeaway right on the doorstep. The local milkman is great and the local farmer sells free range eggs to your door. Its not a great walking distance for a local pub but its not too far from Scholars or The Old Mill. Marlay Park is a short drive away and the whole local area has lots of nice parks and green areas.

On the infrastructure thing, there is currently a lot of aggro going on in Firhouse about the proposed new site of an Educate Together school - despite the locals favoured site being opposite the new LIDL, the council in their wisdom seem to be going with the site by the community centre with the entrance onto the Kilininny Road which is already in bits with M50 traffic in the mornings.

Danjamin1

MrWalsh wrote: »

But theres lots of good things - its very close to the Dublin mountains so access to nice walks is good. The new LIDL at Beechdale is great! The bus is regular and a good service, also because its close to the terminus you never have to worry that the bus will be full. Youve a Spar, doctors clinic, chemist, off licence and takeaway right on the doorstep. The local milkman is great and the local farmer sells free range eggs to your door. Its not a great walking distance for a local pub but its not too far from Scholars or The Old Mill. Marlay Park is a short drive away and the whole local area has lots of nice parks and green areas.

That's great to hear about the good points, they definitely outweigh the bad in my opinion. I've been in to view a few houses in the estate and really like it. Amenities are fine, I'm a 20 minute walk to the nearest pub as it is so I can live with a stroll to the nearest one. Traffic isn't a huge issue as I tend to cycle more often than not, and Knocklyon is closer to work than my current location so it'll be a quicker commute.

Thanks for the updates people, you've put any of my misgivings at ease with this information!

Synode

I've found that the traffic isn't as bad these days as it use to be. Really depends on what time you leave and what direction you're going

MrWalsh

Synode wrote: »

I've found that the traffic isn't as bad these days as it use to be. Really depends on what time you leave and what direction you're going

The very day they opened the Naas road flyover there was a dramatic decrease in the traffic queue for the M50 on the Killininny Road. I still havent tried to go down the Ballycullen Road though because I really HATE that roundabout! Ill probably revert back to it when the kids are off in the summer.

Synode

I've had to get on the M50 a couple of times this year and it hasn't been a problem at all. Back a few years ago it was a complete disaster

Tabnabs

It's still a disaster. I've seen it back to the roundabout at Scholars (queue for M50) quite a few times recently. If you hit it before 8am it's ok, but for an hour and 15 minutes after that; rubbish.

MrWalsh

Tabnabs wrote: »

It's still a disaster. I've seen it back to the roundabout at Scholars (queue for M50) quite a few times recently. If you hit it before 8am it's ok, but for an hour and 15 minutes after that; rubbish.

Yeah, if I dont get out by 7.50am I actually go over the mountain, down by Prospect Manor, and go left down the Scholarstown road and get to the M50 that way - sounds mad but its actually faster if the whole of Ballycullen and Killininny is locked up.

Tabnabs

I'm come from the Firhouse side and will divert through Knocklyon (i.e past Superquinn/Supervalue) if it's particularly bad. Crazy planning for such a new junction...

MrWalsh

Tabnabs wrote: »

I'm come from the Firhouse side and will divert through Knocklyon (i.e past Superquinn/Supervalue) if it's particularly bad. Crazy planning for such a new junction...

The whole junction is a joke. Come off the M50 and youre on a nice wide road that they then narrow so you have to merge to one lane, and then 20 metres up the road it widens again.......why?????

Danjamin1

That sounds bad & all, but I have to leave before 7:15am if I want to be in work in under an hour at the moment! I can live with a bit of traffic:pac:

Danjamin1

Does anyone know what year Woodstown was built, or roughly how old it is even? Looks like it's easily within the last 20 years, but I'm not sure.

Synode

I remember messing around in empty houses in the estate when it was being built as a youngster. It must have been about 1998

MrWalsh

Synode wrote: »

I remember messing around in empty houses in the estate when it was being built as a youngster. It must have been about 1998

It was before that. I think it was earlier in the 90s when they started building it - although I remember it going on a good while. Think it was around 91/92 it started.

Synode

I don't think so. I only moved to Knocklyon in 1994 and that whole area was greenfield for years until they built Woodstown

MrWalsh

Synode wrote: »

I don't think so. I only moved to Knocklyon in 1994 and that whole area was greenfield for years until they built Woodstown

Yeah, maybe Im misremembering it. Ive lived in Knocklyon since the 70s (yikes!) so its quite possible Ive lost track.

Actually, I went to the states in 95 and it wasnt there when I came back so yes, 98 is probably more accurate.

There was nothing past Glenvara Park when I moved there, so I could have been thinking of one of the other estates now past it.

Danjamin1

I thought it'd be about that old from the looks of it alright, inside the last 20 years was my best guess.

Synode

Here's the ordinance survey map from 1995 and it's not there:

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,711475,726201,5,5

And here's the one from 2000 and it is there

http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,711530,726148,5,4

Tragedy

There was a horse riding school there beforehand, and the current M50 flyover is where they used to have circuses (if they weren't on outside the primary school)

Op, buy a slightly less nice house in Knocklyon. You'll benefit from significantly faster buses, an overall more pleasant area and less traffic.

Dice75

From Knocklyon origionally & settled back in Woodstown 10 years ago now. Any questions fire me a PM if you're stuck.

Great Residents association who really look after the place with landscaping / shrub planting / Family Days etc

Danjamin1

Tragedy wrote: »

There was a horse riding school there beforehand, and the current M50 flyover is where they used to have circuses (if they weren't on outside the primary school)

Op, buy a slightly less nice house in Knocklyon. You'll benefit from significantly faster buses, an overall more pleasant area and less traffic.

Thanks for the advice, the traffic's not a huge issue for me as I cycle a lot so that's not enough to put me off the area, I like the feel of the estate and aside from the traffic the feedback has been mostly positive.

Danjamin1

Dice75 wrote: »

From Knocklyon origionally & settled back in Woodstown 10 years ago now. Any questions fire me a PM if you're stuck.

Great Residents association who really look after the place with landscaping / shrub planting / Family Days etc

Yeah it's really well kept, we've viewed a few houses in the estate and we've agreed on one. Great to hear the community aspect of things is alive, a lot of places don't have that!

Tragedy

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice, the traffic's not a huge issue for me as I cycle a lot so that's not enough to put me off the area, I like the feel of the estate and aside from the traffic the feedback has been mostly positive.

The traffic may not be an issue for you now, will it be an issue in 5 years? 10? More?

It is a nice estate, but it's also always seemed to be overpriced for what and where it is. Woodstown is not cheap!

Danjamin1

Tragedy wrote: »

The traffic may not be an issue for you now, will it be an issue in 5 years? 10? More?

It is a nice estate, but it's also always seemed to be overpriced for what and where it is. Woodstown is not cheap!

Yeah it's definitely not cheap and it's heartbreaking seeing how much some of the houses went for 5 years ago. I don't see the traffic as enough to put me off the area either now or in the long run, it's Dublin, there's always going to be traffic. The key is to plan it in to your journey and either leave before/after it's busy or just grin and bear it.

MrWalsh

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Yeah it's definitely not cheap and it's heartbreaking seeing how much some of the houses went for 5 years ago. I don't see the traffic as enough to put me off the area either now or in the long run, it's Dublin, there's always going to be traffic. The key is to plan it in to your journey and either leave before/after it's busy or just grin and bear it.

Regarding traffic its the local area plan that has me more worried, they want to develop 1000s of houses above Woodstown and above Beechdale, but there has been no regard for infrastructure.

Danjamin1

MrWalsh wrote: »

Regarding traffic its the local area plan that has me more worried, they want to develop 1000s of houses above Woodstown and above Beechdale, but there has been no regard for infrastructure.

Ok that's worrying, any indication as to when the development is planned or if it's been approved to go ahead?

MrWalsh

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Ok that's worrying, any indication as to when the development is planned or if it's been approved to go ahead?

There is some work going ahead at the moment - essentially the entirety of Stocking Lane is marked for development, also the NAMA owned land beside Old Court Farm and Mick Whelan has put in for planning permission to build on the GAA grounds along the Old Court Road. Plus the Educate together school on the Kilininny Road.

So lots planned. Ill have a dig around for the local area plan, not sure if its online, I got a leaflet about it ages ago.

MrWalsh

Some info in the first pdf here:
http://www.sdcc.ie/services/planning/local-area-plans/existing/ballycullen-oldcourt

Some of this has changed due to political/residential pressure/planning - but thats what the plan was the last time I got a leaflet.

Synode

Even if they had sense, I'm not sure what they can do with the infrastructure to cope with all the planned houses. Maybe upgrade the M50 junction (is there room)? Create a priority lane for buses?

MrWalsh

Synode wrote: »

Even if they had sense, I'm not sure what they can do with the infrastructure to cope with all the planned houses. Maybe upgrade the M50 junction (is there room)? Create a priority lane for buses?

Maybe put another junction in past Firhouse that you could get to from Stocking Wood - there is land up around there, near Bloomfield.

Also - open the other entrance into Woodstown -on the M50 queue road. And join a road through to Dalriada.

Danjamin1

Actually, I've been meaning to ask, what's the phone coverage like in Woodstown? Bloody hate bad phone reception! It seemed fine when I've viewed houses but would like to know overall how people find it?

Dice75

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Actually, I've been meaning to ask, what's the phone coverage like in Woodstown? Bloody hate bad phone reception! It seemed fine when I've viewed houses but would like to know overall how people find it?

Have to disagree with above. I think it can vary but we are down the back at it can be bad. Im VF and she is O2 and neither is good although VF is slightly better. The problem is the nearest mast is at Kilsaron which is at the top of Exit 11 of the M50. The residents voted no to a mast on the hill at the back of the green. Generally have to be near a front window in ojr house.

Danjamin1

Dice75 wrote: »

Have to disagree with above. I think it can vary but we are down the back at it can be bad. Im VF and she is O2 and neither is good although VF is slightly better. The problem is the nearest mast is at Kilsaron which is at the top of Exit 11 of the M50. The residents voted no to a mast on the hill at the back of the green. Generally have to be near a front window in ojr house.

I visited the house over the weekend and checked how the signal is, it's fine for calls but 3/4G doesn't seem to be great. Not a big deal as we would be getting broadband in immediately, at least the connection seemed ok for making calls.

seamus

Live locally myself and we've put in bids for a couple of houses in Woodstown. Have heard the rumours about extra burglaries and the like, but only from people outside Woodstown, not from the people I know who actually live there.

It was completed sometime around 2000/2001, not long after the M50 went in. http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=144&regref=S00A/0212
There is still a little snobbery in Knockyon around it - one person commented to us that it's not "really" Knocklyon because it's on the other side of the M50. The same person also said that Glenvara and Castlefield are Knocklyon though, so she had no basis for her comment except for the fact that the estate is newer than the rest

The shops can be a little noisy with some anti-social behaviour. But it's primarily just teenagers hanging around and making noise rather than fights or stabbings breaking out. Once the shops are closed there's nobody hanging around.

I've been into a couple of the houses, decent builds, solid. A little snug perhaps and the gardens vary a lot in size/aspect/overlooks, so you can't assume that any two properties are the same - some have a beautiful view of the mountains, others have a 16ft wall at the back because the house behind is higher.

As said above, they have a very active resident's association - Xmas trees done up outside on the green areas, street parties, tidy towns, all that stuff.

Feel free to PM me if you want any info on the stuff that's for sale there, I've done my homework on pretty much everything that's being sold in there at the moment, either researching or actually going to see them

Danjamin1

seamus wrote: »

Live locally myself and we've put in bids for a couple of houses in Woodstown. Have heard the rumours about extra burglaries and the like, but only from people outside Woodstown, not from the people I know who actually live there.

It was completed sometime around 2000/2001, not long after the M50 went in. http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=144&regref=S00A/0212
There is still a little snobbery in Knockyon around it - one person commented to us that it's not "really" Knocklyon because it's on the other side of the M50. The same person also said that Glenvara and Castlefield are Knocklyon though, so she had no basis for her comment except for the fact that the estate is newer than the rest

The shops can be a little noisy with some anti-social behaviour. But it's primarily just teenagers hanging around and making noise rather than fights or stabbings breaking out. Once the shops are closed there's nobody hanging around.

I've been into a couple of the houses, decent builds, solid. A little snug perhaps and the gardens vary a lot in size/aspect/overlooks, so you can't assume that any two properties are the same - some have a beautiful view of the mountains, others have a 16ft wall at the back because the house behind is higher.

As said above, they have a very active resident's association - Xmas trees done up outside on the green areas, street parties, tidy towns, all that stuff.

Feel free to PM me if you want any info on the stuff that's for sale there, I've done my homework on pretty much everything that's being sold in there at the moment, either researching or actually going to see them

That's brilliant, thanks, it's a great estate & I know what you're saying about the snobbery in relation to the estate. If Castlefield & Glenvara are Knocklyon then how could Woodstown be any different? I know it's a bit away from the village but no further than the other two estates.

Won't be close to the shops but I did notice groups of teens around a couple evenings. Watched them for a while & they weren't up to very much, just hanging around. Used to do the same as a teenager myself. As long as there's no trouble there's nothing to worry about.

seamus

Danjamin1 wrote: »

That's brilliant, thanks, it's a great estate & I know what you're saying about the snobbery in relation to the estate. If Castlefield & Glenvara are Knocklyon then how could Woodstown be any different? I know it's a bit away from the village but no further than the other two estates.

This was always the funny thing about Knocklyon. It doesn't really have any kind of "village" or main street. The shopping centre has always just been a shopping centre - unlike say Templeogue village, there was no historical town centre in Knocklyon. The closest thing to a centre is the shopping centre and church, which didn't appear until the 70s and 80s. So people casting aspersions about what is and isn't Knocklyon has always been funny. And even in the 80s you had people arguing about whether Knocklyon existed at all. Some people claimed it was Templeogue, others claimed it was Firhouse.

Templeroan was built in the early 90s, I remember when it was literally just fields. Even then you had people saying that it's not Knocklyon, it's Ballyboden or Whitechurch, it's too far away to be Knocklyon.

MrWalsh

I remember when "they" (the powers that be) decided to make at least some of Knocklyon D6W (I was only a child at the time), my parents were very concerned about whether it would adversely affect the house value! Im not sure if it was ever officially implemented but it went back to D16 anyway.

Glenvara was a bit of an outlier until they built Castlefield - it had no other estates beside it at all. I cant remember if Castlefield or Glenlyon came first - but I well remember walking through the gap up from where the M50 footbridge is now in Castlefield - before the M50 was ever there at all.

And the old Knocklyon Road, that just sort of abruptly ends now due to the M50 being behind it.

Anyway - enough of the nostalgia!

Danjamin1

Either way if I put the address in to Google Maps it comes up as Knocklyon and D16, the address is listed as Knocklyon & D16 so I'm going with that. It's Knocklyon in my opinion.

Tragedy

seamus wrote: »

There is still a little snobbery in Knockyon around it - one person commented to us that it's not "really" Knocklyon because it's on the other side of the M50. The same person also said that Glenvara and Castlefield are Knocklyon though, so she had no basis for her comment except for the fact that the estate is newer than the rest

It's not snobbery, it's a fact that Woodstown only 'became' Knocklyon when it was built - for no apparent reason other than the Developer found a way to make it accepted so as to charge higher prices.

The area it was built has been known as Ballycullen for hundreds of years, the area Glenvara and Castlefield are built has been known as Knocklyon for hundreds of years, you know - Knocklyon Castle is by Castlefield.
That is a fact.

It isn't snobbery - and the only snobbery involved is reverse snobbery of the people who can't bear to accept that where they live isn't Knocklyon and never has been - despite An Post now accepting that post sent to Woodstown, Knocklyon goes to Woodstown in Ballycullen.

There is nothing wrong with living in Ballycullen, there is nothing wrong with living in Knocklyon.

You would swear we didn't have freely available maps that show the above.

Danjamin1

Tragedy wrote: »

It's not snobbery, it's a fact that Woodstown only 'became' Knocklyon when it was built - for no apparent reason other than the Developer found a way to make it accepted so as to charge higher prices.

The area it was built has been known as Ballycullen for hundreds of years, the area Glenvara and Castlefield are built has been known as Knocklyon for hundreds of years, you know - Knocklyon Castle is by Castlefield.
That is a fact.

It isn't snobbery - and the only snobbery involved is reverse snobbery of the people who can't bear to accept that where they live isn't Knocklyon and never has been - despite An Post now accepting that post sent to Woodstown, Knocklyon goes to Woodstown in Ballycullen.

There is nothing wrong with living in Ballycullen, there is nothing wrong with living in Knocklyon.

You would swear we didn't have freely available maps that show the above.

Yeah I did notice that, either way if the address is listed as Knocklyon that's what I'm going with. Not going to confuse the issue by telling people I live in Ballycullen but it comes up as Knocklyon if you google it.

youcancallmeal

Tragedy wrote: »

It's not snobbery, it's a fact that Woodstown only 'became' Knocklyon when it was built - for no apparent reason other than the Developer found a way to make it accepted so as to charge higher prices.

The area it was built has been known as Ballycullen for hundreds of years, the area Glenvara and Castlefield are built has been known as Knocklyon for hundreds of years, you know - Knocklyon Castle is by Castlefield.
That is a fact.

It isn't snobbery - and the only snobbery involved is reverse snobbery of the people who can't bear to accept that where they live isn't Knocklyon and never has been - despite An Post now accepting that post sent to Woodstown, Knocklyon goes to Woodstown in Ballycullen.

There is nothing wrong with living in Ballycullen, there is nothing wrong with living in Knocklyon.

You would swear we didn't have freely available maps that show the above.

Exactly! Sure they'll build more estates in the coming years further up the mountain beyond Ballycullen and probably still be calling it Knocklyon.

seamus

Tragedy wrote: »

It's not snobbery, it's a fact that Woodstown only 'became' Knocklyon when it was built - for no apparent reason other than the Developer found a way to make it accepted so as to charge higher prices.

Nevertheless, it's now accepted as being Knocklyon, so there's no point in taking some bizarre stand that it's not unless you're a historian with a particular gra for holding onto the past.

Likewise the vast majority of what's now called Ballycullen is originally Oldcourt. And Orlagh & Woodfield are Knocklyon, but originally Scholarstown. And Ashton & Templeroan: Ballyroan.

Boundaries change, 'tis the way it is.

Synode

Aren't the estates on Stocking Avenue being sold as Rathfarnham. You'd wonder where the boundaries are

Tragedy

seamus wrote: »

Nevertheless, it's now accepted as being Knocklyon, so there's no point in taking some bizarre stand that it's not unless you're a historian with a particular gra for holding onto the past.

Likewise the vast majority of what's now called Ballycullen is originally Oldcourt. And Orlagh & Woodfield are Knocklyon, but originally Scholarstown. And Ashton & Templeroan: Ballyroan.

Boundaries change, 'tis the way it is.

You maundered on about snobbery and no historical basis and when you were entirely incorrect you completely changed your argument.

As I said, the only snobbery is reverse snobbery by people like you.

Woodstown is not regarded as Knocklyon by anyone but the people who bought there and an post, and an post emphatically state that their addresses are for postal reasons and do not imply or infer boundaries or locales, they are a tool for the delivery and sending of mail.

Up until Woodstown was built it was Ballycullen. It fronts on to the Ballycullen Road, is across from Ballycullen Cottages and would have been called Firhouse if Firhouse was worth more money than Knocklyon.

By all means though, change the argument again, keep posting nonsense and keep pretending that the rebranding was anything but a successful marketing exercise preying on people who care more for perceived area than actual area - I am enjoying the schadenfreude derived from your posts.

seamus

Synode wrote: »

Aren't the estates on Stocking Avenue being sold as Rathfarnham. You'd wonder where the boundaries are

Yeah, it's all a bit crazy. From what I can tell, most of Stocking Avenue would be historically part of Woodtown, which is part of a larger district of Cruagh.

seamus

Tragedy wrote: »

You maundered on about snobbery and no historical basis and when you were entirely incorrect you completely changed your argument.

As I said, the only snobbery is reverse snobbery by people like you.

But it is snobbery. "I refuse to accept it's part of Knocklyon because it's not historically accurate".

What else can it be but snobbery? I live in Ballycullen, I have no reason for pretending that there's anything wrong with it. Simply stating the fact that Woodstown is part of modern Knocklyon.