Lower car tax

sgds

Anyone know if there are any plans to base car tax on emissions for cars before 2008. You can get a decent car 2007 & earlier but the road tax is a killer.

colm_mcm

No.
And..The only reason you can buy 07s way cheaper than 08s is the higher tax.

boardsuser1

Let's all give the green party and John Gormley a big clap for that wonderful fcuk up!

Eugene Yes

The only plans concerning Motor Tax is to increase the CO2 based because the average tax take in down on the newer stuff. It is insane that people that cannot afford a new car are subsidizing the loss to revenue of new car tax system every time they tax their pre 08 stuff.

colm_mcm

I think 95% of cars registered are band a or b now.

corktina

tax only ever goes up...

colm_mcm

Except that one time, in 2008.

Guy:Incognito

I hope not, my car would cost a ****ing fortune if it was switched to emissions system.

corktina

colm_mcm wrote: »

Except that one time, in 2008.

did it go down on existing cars? No

mickdw

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think 95% of cars registered are band a or b now.

Yes and tax laws force band A or B on people too. In my case, I claim a percentage business use for my private car. If I was to buy a band C or D, the reduction is cut in half.

allthedoyles

sgds wrote: »

Anyone know if there are any plans to base car tax on emissions for cars before 2008. You can get a decent car 2007 & earlier but the road tax is a killer.

It looks like it will go the other way , and cars after 2008 will suffer same as pre-2008

More car tax need now , to pay for our latest semi-state co. Irish Water

Because they certainly not going to get the required revenue from water usage

Idbatterim

the vast majority of cars people here buy, arent even high on the old system, up to 2L is what E710, what are you going to save on emissions by paying thousands more for an 08? Secondly small cc cars are cheap on cc system, thirdly some cars are more expensive on emissions than cc...

I saw a proposal in reboot ireland that proposed a cut on the cc system for larger engined cars, that would make total sense to me... They are at rates where they arent being driven or declared and if says E365 was cut from the top rate, they would get their extra euro a day back from fuel easily on those cars... The top rate should be sub 1500 on the CC system IMO...

There is a major issue now with the emissions based system and that is, that even the likes of the Audi a7 ( 6 pot diesel, it is only 2gramm over the E200 rate) and range rover evoque, can be taxed for E270 or lower this isnt an issue just in motor tax terms, but also in the VRT the government take and you can see why these prestigious cars at that level of motor tax and vrt make such sense, one the biggest killers in years gone by, the motor tax, is no longer an issue, hence their residuals should be far stronger...

http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-reviews/mega-audi-a7-turns-up-the-power-while-its-new-ultradiesel-returns-over-60mpg-30928256.html

the new range rover evoque emissions will be down to 109 at the end of the year = E190 a year to tax...

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/range-rover-evoque-2016-most-8704385

bazz26

allthedoyles wrote: »

It looks like it will go the other way , and cars after 2008 will suffer same as pre-2008

More car tax need now , to pay for our latest semi-state co. Irish Water

Because they certainly not going to get the required revenue from water usage

Why would they go and do that, do you have any links to this proposal?

Currently new car sales are way ahead of the last few years meaning more VRT and VAT into the Governments coffers. Raise the Co2 motor tax rates to a stupid level and they run the risk of new car sales drying up along with VRT and VAT revenue generated from them. In return they will just target the old tax system owners to try and offset it.

Idbatterim

Currently new car sales are way ahead of the last few years meaning more VRT and VAT into the Governments coffers. Raise the Co2 motor tax rates to a stupid level and they run the risk of new car sales drying up along with VRT and VAT revenue generated from them. In return they will just target the old tax system owners to try and offset it.

yes raising them to stupid level would do damage, but they are at a stupid level now in my opinion, i.e. stupidly cheap, and cheaper than they need to be, if they raised all rates E40-50 a year is that going to put someone off buying a new car?

bazz26

See this is the thing that bugs me. The perception out there is that those paying low motor tax are sort of "getting away with murder". People forget that a fair junk of the price of a new car is tax, not motor tax but VRT and VAT which is still tax. So people with low motor tax cars are not getting away with it, they are paying it, just in a different way.

Idbatterim

I dont think they are getting away with murder, I can get an emissions based bmw and save a few hundred on tax and cost myself thousands extra in depreciation and loan interest. I can choose to buy some new crap box if I want to, I am not saying that some people are getting away with something, we can all choose what we drive...

My opinion is that some of the rates on cc and emissions are too low and some far too high...

I actually think it is great those those being bled dry in this country on income and other taxes now dont have to be shafted on vrt and motor tax also, it is great, I am all for it. The emissions rates have been frozen for years though or left virtually unchamged at the same time, the manufacturers are producing lower and lower emission cars all of the time, how much longer can / will the government do let this go on for?

Pov06

bazz26 wrote: »

People forget that a fair junk of the price of a new car is tax, not motor tax but VRT and VAT which is still tax. So people with low motor tax cars are not getting away with it, they are paying it, just in a different way.

Your logic is so fcuked up that it's not even funny.

Where did the old cars come from? Out of the sky?!

People paid VRT and VAT on the old cars the same way people pay VRT and VAT on new cars!

bazz26

I'm talking about the general perception out there.

If I was buying a brand new car tomorrow and had the break down of the total tax I was paying on it, including VRT, VAT and motor tax, I think I'd consider paying lower motor tax as a type of tax relief for doing so.

Pov06

bazz26 wrote: »

I'm talking about the general perception out there.

If I was buying a brand new car tomorrow and had the break down of the total tax I was paying on it, including VRT, VAT and motor tax, I think I'd consider paying lower motor tax as a type of tax relief for doing so.

What you're saying is "if I could pay lower tax I would pay lower tax". Yes, of course.

Same applies for older car owners :rolleyes:

Outkast_IRE

Would gladly like to see the end of motor tax and just add it to the price of petrol/diesel. Very hard to avoid it then, and the greatest road users will pay the most tax.

Jesus.

Idbatterim wrote: »

the vast majority of cars people here buy, arent even high on the old system, up to 2L is what E710

700 quid tax is not low mate. Unless you've got money to burn I think the motor tax in this Country is very expensive.

Guy:Incognito

allthedoyles wrote: »

It looks like it will go the other way , and cars after 2008 will suffer same as pre-2008

More car tax need now , to pay for our latest semi-state co. Irish Water

Because they certainly not going to get the required revenue from water usage

This is what people want is it not? No charge and all paid for by the taxpayers. Can't work both ways.

bazz26

Pov06 wrote: »

Your logic is so fcuked up that it's not even funny.

Where did the old cars come from? Out of the sky?!

People paid VRT and VAT on the old cars the same way people pay VRT and VAT on new cars!

Yes but resale values of used cars are heavily influenced by the rate of motor tax on the car. The higher the motor tax the lower the resale value. Yes that resale value still has a proportion of the original VRT/VAT built into it. However the majority of people who have a cc based taxed car probably didn't buy it new and the clever ones probably are happy to pay a bit more in motor tax in order to buy the car at a cheap price.

Also why not try to get your point across with a bit maturity rather than just resorting to flaming?

Pov06

bazz26 wrote: »

Yes but resale values of used cars are heavily influenced by the rate of motor tax on the car. The higher the motor tax the lower the resale value. Yes that resale value still has a proportion of the original VRT/VAT built into it. However the majority of people who have a cc based taxed car probably didn't buy it new and the clever ones probably are happy to pay a bit more in motor tax in order to buy the car at a cheap price.

Also why not try to get your point across with a bit maturity rather than just resorting to flaming?

Once again your logic fails you.

You say new cars should have lower tax because people need to pay VRT/VAT when the purchase the car.

At one point the old cars were new and the buyers also paid VRT/VAT, but according to you tax should be more expensive on them?

Going by this logic that means that if you buy a 2008+ car second hand you shouldn't get cheap tax because you didn't actually pay for the VRT/VAT but it was paid by the first owner...

bazz26

Listen we can argue our points until the cows come home but the reality is that 08 is the cut off point in place for most cases. You can either spend thousands upgrading to a 08+ car in the comfort of having low tax or buy/stick with an older car which costs alot less to buy and pay more in the form of motor tax. I just don't buy into the notion that people with low motor tax cars have an unfair advantage.

wendell borton

A cheaper car with more expensive tax or an expensive car with cheaper tax.

pablo128

wendell borton wrote: »

A cheaper car with more expensive tax or an expensive car with cheaper tax.

Or a petrol car that's cheap to buy but heavy on fuel, or a diesel that's expensive to buy but easy on fuel!:D

allthedoyles

The 2008 cut-off seems to be set in concrete , whereas it would be better if the rule was say 4 years , and as each year passes , the pre-2008 comes forward a year

Supergurrier

Talking to a fella during the week who owned multiple properties who pays just over half the tax i pay on my humble ford focus on his 141 mercedes van 141 mercedes salonn and 142 diesel golf.

Makes sense

pablo128

Supergurrier wrote: »

Talking to a fella during the week who owned multiple properties who pays just over half the tax i pay on my humble ford focus on his 141 mercedes van 141 mercedes salonn and 142 diesel golf.

Makes sense

How much did you pay for your Focus, and how much did he pay for 2 new mercs and a new Golf?

Don't get me wrong. I have an 05 2 litre and an 06 1 litre to tax. But I did my maths. I paid 1700 for an 05 Avensis D4D, full of kit. And the Yaris would have been more expensive to tax had it been post 08.

So you have to look at the bigger picture money wise when choosing a car.

Supergurrier

1294 2007

PurvesGrundy

Jesus. wrote: »

700 quid tax is not low mate. Unless you've got money to burn I think the motor tax in this Country is very expensive.

Any UK forums I read they consider the top £400-500 band over there to be colossal....

CiniO

PurvesGrundy wrote: »

Any UK forums I read they consider the top £400-500 band over there to be colossal....

Because it is colossal for a car tax

unkel

bazz26 wrote: »

You can either spend thousands upgrading to a 08+ car in the comfort of having low tax or buy/stick with an older car which costs alot less to buy and pay more in the form of motor tax.

This is it. I pay a ridiculous €268 per quarter in motor tax for my 11 year old car that I drive for only about 7k miles per year

That said, I bought my car for €4k. The same car would set you back about €10k in it's home country. My €6k discount pays for many years of tax. Thankfully most people in this country don't understand this trade off and thankfully the man in the pub says buy diesel

CiniO

unkel wrote: »

This is it. I pay a ridiculous €268 per quarter in motor tax for my 11 year old car that I drive for only about 7k miles per year

That said, I bought my car for €4k. The same car would set you back about €10k in it's home country. My €6k discount pays for many years of tax. Thankfully most people in this country don't understand this trade off and thankfully the man in the pub says buy diesel

Well, Unkel not for long.
In few months Poland is going to allow registration of RHD vehicles, and this will take all of higher spec big engine petrol cars from Ireland to be sold for export.
As you said - their prices here are tiny compared to what they cost on the Continent, and because of that they'll be soon all gone or their value will rise.

unkel

Oh no

If that happens that will be the end of driving very nice cars for very little money here in Ireland

Keep us updated here CiniO.

CiniO

unkel wrote: »

Oh no

If that happens that will be the end of driving very nice cars for very little money here in Ireland

Keep us updated here CiniO.

You'll be the first to know...
(sorry couldn't resist - I just watch the entire series of Lieutenant Columbo over last few weeks).

And on the subject.
Polish law didn't allow to register RHD cars. They were many people lobbying to change the law over the years, but unsuccessfully, as government is afraid that this would cause excessive amoutn of import of old bangers from UK (and Ireland) as they are much cheaper here than on the continent. This could reduce already bad road safety with so many RHD cars there.
So looked like it's not going to happen, until last year when in March Poland lost against EU commission in EU court of Justice about that case, and now they are forced to change the law to allow RHD. Polish government is very slacky introducing that, but they are pretty much forced at the moment, so this will need to happen within few months the latest.

Since 2004 when Poland joined EU, there was incredible amount of import of cars from Germany, as well as France, Austria, Italy, etc... They even used to call Poland a huge scrapyard of EU as most cars which would be scrapped in western EU was just going to Poland to get fixed and back on the road.

Now when market will be open for Cars from UK and Ireland, this will surely have a big effect on those markets (remember Poland is 6th biggest country in EU).

Also considering there is no road tax, insurance is silly cheap and doesn't even get expensive for 17 year old intending to insure 300bhp turbo impreza, roadworthiness test is not as strict as in Ireland or UK, I predict there will be plenty of high power big engine petrol cars going for export from Ireland or UK. Availably of LPG for half price of petrol on every single petrol station in Poland and fairly cheap conversions will also only help it.

So if someone is looking to buy a bargain petrol big engine car in Ireland, now is the time.

Bongalongherb

My emissions - Co - 0.03 for a 1999 car should be lower motor-tax as it is damn good as is, but I'm being screwed as well €101 every three months.

Who in their right mind would give a vote to the green party when they want us all going back to the horse and cart ? sure they already have the cows angry because of their farting.

CiniO

Bongalongherb wrote: »

My emissions - Co - 0.03 for a 1999 car should be lower motor-tax as it is damn good as is, but I'm being screwed as well €101 every three months.

CO is poisonous gas and it's good that your car doesn't emit too much of it.

New tax band system (from 2008) is based on CO2 emissions. CO2 is not poisonous gas.

Rowley Birkin QC

CiniO wrote: »

Well, Unkel not for long.
In few months Poland is going to allow registration of RHD vehicles, and this will take all of higher spec big engine petrol cars from Ireland to be sold for export.
As you said - their prices here are tiny compared to what they cost on the Continent, and because of that they'll be soon all gone or their value will rise.

I wonder does that explain the gathering of 745's I saw today warehoused in West Dublin.

Pov06

CiniO wrote: »

Well, Unkel not for long.
In few months Poland is going to allow registration of RHD vehicles, and this will take all of higher spec big engine petrol cars from Ireland to be sold for export.
As you said - their prices here are tiny compared to what they cost on the Continent, and because of that they'll be soon all gone or their value will rise.

I don't think so. They have allowed RHD vehicles to be registered in Lithuania a few months ago and it hasn't had any affect on Ireland

Jesus.

unkel wrote: »

Oh no
If that happens that will be the end of driving very nice cars for very little money here in Ireland

Is that really the case though Unkel? Any saving you make on the purchase price would be lost by the colossal tax bill. They'd also be quite expensive to run petrol wise.

I'd say overall its no cheaper than anywhere else. But it mightn't be any dearer either to be fair.

CiniO

Pov06 wrote: »

I don't think so. They have allowed RHD vehicles to be registered in Lithuania a few months ago and it hasn't had any affect on Ireland

Well, the only thing though is that Lithuania is 2.9 million citizens country, while Poland is 38.5 million.
So whatever effect allowing rhd cars in Lithuania had on Irish market, effect after Poland will change the law will be at least 13 times greater.

On the side note - when was it introduced in Lithuania? Did they put any extra reqirementa like conversion of lights, mirrors, speedo in km/h, etc?
Is there many cars imported? Did insurance premiums rise for rhd cars? And if so by how much?
Could you link to any articles?

Pov06

CiniO wrote: »

Well, the only thing though is that Lithuania is 2.9 million citizens country, while Poland is 38.5 million.
So whatever effect allowing rhd cars in Lithuania had on Irish market, effect after Poland will change the law will be at least 13 times greater.

On the side note - when was it introduced in Lithuania? Did they put any extra reqirementa like conversion of lights, mirrors, speedo in km/h, etc?
Is there many cars imported? Did insurance premiums rise for rhd cars? And if so by how much?
Could you link to any articles?

I'm not sure on the details but here's a link: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:62012CJ0061:EN:HTML

unkel

Jesus. wrote: »

Is that really the case though Unkel? Any saving you make on the purchase price would be lost by the colossal tax bill. They'd also be quite expensive to run petrol wise.

I'd say overall its no cheaper than anywhere else. But it mightn't be any dearer either to be fair.

Yes it is a lot cheaper. Just a typical example: a 10 year old E60 BMW petrol in good condition is worth about €4k here. Over on the continent it is worth about €9k

And if you do average miles or more and intend to keep your car for a good few years, a €1k LPG conversion will make the fuel cost cheaper than diesel!

Jesus.

Good point re the LPG Unkel.

If you kept her a few years though would the mad tax bill make up the other 5k? Or maybe it is cheaper when its all worked out

Voodoomelon

Damn Polish! Taking our jobs and our women, and now our V8s! Leave us with something!

PurvesGrundy

Jesus. wrote: »

Good point re the LPG Unkel.

If you kept her a few years though would the mad tax bill make up the other 5k? Or maybe it is cheaper when its all worked out

People regularly make the mistaken assumption though that such cars are only cheap because of the tax. That is not true, as over the water in the UK (where tax is £200-300) the likes of older E60's are dirt cheap too. Even ten years ago in our country, when motor tax wasn't quite as near outrageous as it presently stands, you could pick up older BMW's/Merc's/Jag's for next to nothing. It is just a natural characteristic of the Irish and UK market that older cars do not really have any significant resale value. If you think you are only getting an '04/05 520i for 3-4k is because of the tax and you are therefore somehow benefiting, one is kidding them self.

The most prominent situation I would say where motor tax affects the value of a car with any significance is the correlation between '07 and '08 examples of cars such as as Passat/A4/520d/Accord diesels.

Anyway, I personally think it is high time there was a movement against the unbalanced Irish motor tax structure. It is a joke of a system and completely implemented without strategy or thought.

Jesus.

It does kind of seem too good to be true Grundy.

Would the cheap price of big old petrol cars then be more attributed to the price of petrol (UK & Irl) than tax?

CiniO

PurvesGrundy wrote: »

People regularly make the mistaken assumption though that such cars are only cheap because of the tax. That is not true, as over the water in the UK (where tax is £200-300) the likes of older E60's are dirt cheap too. Even ten years ago in our country, when motor tax wasn't quite as near outrageous as it presently stands, you could pick up older BMW's/Merc's/Jag's for next to nothing. It is just a natural characteristic of the Irish and UK market that older cars do not really have any significant resale value. If you think you are only getting an '04/05 520i for 3-4k is because of the tax and you are therefore somehow benefiting, one is kidding them self.

.

So can you explain why those big petrol engine cars keep their value well on the Continent?
If it's not the motortax, then what?

Jesus.

CiniO wrote: »

So can you explain why those big petrol engine cars keep their value well on the Continent? If it's not the motortax, then what?

What's the petrol prices like down there? Could that be it?