Labour are 7% in the polls - So who here is voting for them &why

washman3

After todays revelations in the Sunday Independent anyone who votes Labour in the next election will deserve everything they get.
Sickening in the extreme.

tayto lover

washman3 wrote: »

After todays revelations in the Sunday Independent anyone who votes Labour in the next election will deserve everything they get.
Sickening in the extreme.

Didn't see the papers today.
Could you give the gist please?

washman3

tayto lover wrote: »

Didn't see the papers today.
Could you give the gist please?

The retirement pensions of the current Labour cabinet ministers will cost €15 million.
That's a pension that they have never contributed to, unlike the ordinary Joe Soap whose pension was more than likely wiped out since 2008.

BANANA REPUBLIC.!!!
The 'party of work' my h##e

michael999999

washman3 wrote: »

The retirement pensions of the current Labour cabinet ministers will cost €15 million.
That's a pension that they have never contributed to, unlike the ordinary Joe Soap whose pension was more than likely wiped out since 2008.

BANANA REPUBLIC.!!!
The 'party of work' my h##e

Bloody leeches!

Larbre34

Alan Kelly is an appalling speaker. Ive heard transition year students debate with more gravitas and conviction.

nesf

Eh, the 7% don't have to like Labour, they just need to dislike the rest more. Which, to be fair, isn't that hard.

BoJack Horseman

tayto lover wrote: »

I and many others voted Fine Gael the last time.
When did they turn Marxist?

About 1/4 of those who voted FG at the last GE have switched allegiances to SF.

professore

washman3 wrote: »

The retirement pensions of the current Labour cabinet ministers will cost €15 duringmillion.
That's a pension that they have never contributed to, unlike the ordinary Joe Soap whose pension was more than likely wiped out since 2008.

BANANA REPUBLIC.!!!
The 'party of work' my h##e

Hardly revelations ... All the parties are like that. They asked Enda Kenny if he was worth his salary during the week, you could ask them all that. Labour is the political wing of the public sector.

professore

I think those on welfare and in the public sector should be voting for them. Considering the mess Ireland was and still is in, cuts of up to 50% in staff and payments should have been the order of the day. Nothing like that happened. So while I'd never vote for them, I think they did a good job for their core voters. Ironically they won't see it like that.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

In my opinion the vote that labour have lost since the last election had migrated to the "we don't want to pay for anything ever" brigades of sf, AAA and super lefty independents. Realistic labour supporters with a bit more cop on can see that the party, by and large, have protected the interests of the low paid and the elderly and are working on sweetening up the public sector with pending pay increases. I'd imagine their 7% comes from that cohort and, barring any major political blunders, I'd say they will either hold the 7 or potentially turn it into 12-15% depending on how generous the next budget is to the their electoral base.

Chips Lovell

I'd agree with the analysis that they have, so far at least, done fairly well in looking out for their core voters, guarding social welfare entitlements, protecting public sector workers, getting a property tax in. That still doesn't mean they won't lose seats the next time out because the protest vote will desert them and move to other parties. In fairness though, there's not much Labour can do about that. Gilmore could have turned water into wine and a lot of people wouldn't have been happy.

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

Alan Kelly is an appalling speaker. Ive heard transition year students debate with more gravitas and conviction.

Abraham Lincoln was a poor public speaker, but it didn't stop him unifying his country against right-wing turnip munchers.

I come from the same area as Kelly and I can tell you he is positively venerated by many people in that place. Kelly was raised in a local authority house near Lough Derg, as Kelly himself as spoken about, and his family experienced financial hardship. But he and his brother pulled themselves up by their boot straps. One is now a Manhattan CEO with links to the Clintons, the other is a Government minister who's only in his 30s.

What I like about Kelly is his commitment to social justice, but not in the turgid, loquacious way which is the usual currency of Labour politicians. When Kelly talks about the Labour movement, he knows what he is talking about. I'm afraid many of his colleagues have much shorter memories, and a much more cynical view of politics.

Icepick

sarumite wrote: »

Their own voters expected them to be absolute miracle workers. When they failed to achieve the impossible, their voters turned their backs on labour in favour of a bunch populist marxists promising them jelly and ice cream for life in exchange for a vote. Its pathetic how fickle some voters are!

And the same will happen to SF if they are in the next government.
You just need to look at the North to see that there wouldn't be a socialist revolution.

nesf

Icepick wrote: »

And the same will happen to SF if they are in the next government.
You just need to look at the North to see that there wouldn't be a socialist revolution.

This the people seem to be rather thick about. Going into power as a minority partner will be very damaging for SF, expect them to delay and try and build up that core cohort as much as possible before going to avoid risking collapsing back to pre 2011 figures of single digit seats.

happy_knome

professore wrote: »

I think those on welfare and in the public sector should be voting for them. Considering the mess Ireland was and still is in, cuts of up to 50% in staff and payments should have been the order of the day. Nothing like that happened. So while I'd never vote for them, I think they did a good job for their core voters. Ironically they won't see it like that.

completely agree and i too would never vote for labour

labour have achieved a huge amount

they have largely protected public sector pay , pensions and social wellfare entitlements

they have ushered in major change in social policy , abortion policy was reformed significantly and we are about to make legal gay marriage in a few months

im truly perplexed at their current poll and can only put it down to the fickleness of liberal voters

happy_knome

Icepick wrote: »

And the same will happen to SF if they are in the next government.
You just need to look at the North to see that there wouldn't be a socialist revolution.

unionists have a lot more political principal and rigour than the political class down here , irish people are centre left in outlook , ulster protestants are very definately centre right

were SF as big down here , the country would be very different than northern ireland

professore

I wish there was a party half as good as Labour at protecting the interests of the working poor and struggling self employed. Those two groups in society literally pay for everything, aside from the working wealthy of course, who DO pay a big whack of taxes despite the propaganda from the Sindo. Ironically FG are the closest thing we have .... or the Troika !

Whatever about Labour, if SF get into a position that FG are in at the moment the country will well and truly go down the tubes. They seem to think they can magic up money from everywhere - even worse than Labour.

Idbatterim

I wish there was a party half as good as Labour at protecting the interests of the working poor and struggling self employed ... ironically FG are the closest thing we have .... or the Troika !

you echo my sentiments exactly. I can only hope Lucinda and reboot are a viable option for me come election time, I voted FG last time and will give them a begrudging vote if no alternative emerges...

Grab All Association

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

- They kept welfare rates largely intact.
- The elderly are insulated from cuts like never before.
- No CR in the public service, stymieing reform.
- Allowing the restoration of previously unsustainable PS pay levels when gov borrowing drops back to a paltry €7bn per annum.
- bringing in a tax on property.

So, not bad.

Possibly more achievements than FG got.

That's not exactly true.

JSA and SWA for ages 22-24 was cut from €144 to €100 in budget 2014 and from €188 to €144 for 25 year olds.

Budget 2013 they tried to cut disability allowance to €144/100 for under 25s and abolish it for under 18s.

BTEA 18-25 was cut from €188 to €160

nesf

professore wrote: »

I wish there was a party half as good as Labour at protecting the interests of the working poor and struggling self employed. Those two groups in society literally pay for everything, aside from the working wealthy of course, who DO pay a big whack of taxes despite the propaganda from the Sindo. Ironically FG are the closest thing we have .... or the Troika !

How do you define working poor? As in low waged or little left after debt etc?

happy_knome

their is a market for a party which focuses on the private sector voter who runs a small business right now , all parties pander to the multinationals but all the parties also actively court the public sector vote , labour have to as its their base and they idealogically believe in big goverment , fianna fail do it because it suits them

Idbatterim

JSA and SWA for ages 22-24 was cut from €144 to €100 in budget 2014 and from €188 to €144 for 25 year olds.

Budget 2013 they tried to cut disability allowance to €144/100 for under 25s and abolish it for under 18s.

BTEA 18-25 was cut from €188 to €160

Burton was on the record the other day saying she wants to overturn this, this is something that they did, that I would absolutely agree with and it should not be overturned. Finish school, pass go, collect E188... The problem with that rate living at home is, well... That its easy to get lazy and stay there... They should be in education or employment as the tories in the uk say...

their is a market for a party which focuses on the private sector voter who runs a small business right now , all parties pander to the multinationals but all the parties also actively court the public sector vote , labour have to as its their base and they ideologically believe in big goverment , fianna fail do it because it suits them

Reboot seem to fit the private sector, pro business bill. They dont need to try and be everything to everyone, all they need is to win enough seats to fill FG up, ideologically they are the closest aligned, that is if we actually believe FG want reform, or they might hope Labour rebound, they go in with them and avoid making any difficult decisions, like the past few years IMO...

Grab All Association

Idbatterim wrote: »

Burton was on the record the other day saying she wants to overturn this, this is something that they did, that I would absolutely agree with and it should not be overturned. Finnish school, pass go, collect E188... The problem with that rate living at home is, well... That its easy to get lazy and stay there... They should be in education or employment as the tories in the uk say...

Bull****. When we left school in the early 2000s (I traveled/worked across Europe and studied abroad) most of my friends/classmates who didn't go to college all went on apprenticeships or got jobs in the construction industry. The ones who got lazy and stayed there was the 4% mostly mid 40s-50s (I grew up in a housing estate full of these people all alcoholics)

Since 2007

The construction industry collapsed

Few if any apprenticeships offered these days. (Tipperary for example used to have at least 20 advertised. Today just 1)

The majority of low paid menial jobs that used to attract these age groups whilst studying in college etc are all internships.

18-25 year olds did nothing to cause this crisis yet were the ones who suffered the most from it. At the last election the majority of Labour voters were this age group.

To add you can't just leave school at 18 either and go on JSA. I think you have to wait 3-6 months before you can claim JSA

Idbatterim

18-25 year olds did nothing to cause this crisis yet were the ones who suffered the most from it. At the last election the majority of Labour voters were this age group.

What you never have, you dont miss. Off the wall welfare rates... Have never contributed anything, here is E188 (up until recently enough), have paid in a fortune and become redundant with mortgage etc, E188, its a fantastic system! The Germans could really learn from us :rolleyes:

Bull****. When we left school in the early 2000s (I traveled/worked across Europe and studied abroad) most of my friends/classmates who didn't go to college all went on apprenticeships or got jobs in the construction industry. The ones who got lazy and stayed there was the 4% mostly mid 40s-50s (I grew up in a housing estate full of these people all alcoholics)

BS in your opinion, a few of the lads I went to school with had a private education and their parents have a good work ethic and they ended up having a handy little number on our welfare system, if this is what privately educated kids with working parents are doing, I can imagine the numbers doing it with the legions of work shy in this country...

happy_knome

Chris___ wrote: »

Bull****. When we left school in the early 2000s (I traveled/worked across Europe and studied abroad) most of my friends/classmates who didn't go to college all went on apprenticeships or got jobs in the construction industry. The ones who got lazy and stayed there was the 4% mostly mid 40s-50s (I grew up in a housing estate full of these people all alcoholics)

Since 2007

The construction industry collapsed

Few if any apprenticeships offered these days. (Tipperary for example used to have at least 20 advertised. Today just 1)

The majority of low paid menial jobs that used to attract these age groups whilst studying in college etc are all internships.

18-25 year olds did nothing to cause this crisis yet were the ones who suffered the most from it. At the last election the majority of Labour voters were this age group.

To add you can't just leave school at 18 either and go on JSA. I think you have to wait 3-6 months before you can claim JSA

18 - 25 year olds are rip for cutting for two reasons


1. they are more likely to emmigrate and getting rid of them removes a voter threat to traditional parties

2. they are less likely to vote anyway

pensioners are much more likely to vote , hence why they completely escaped the recession bar trivial reductions in phone subsidies etc

Icepick

happy_knome wrote: »

unionists have a lot more political principal and rigour than the political class down here , irish people are centre left in outlook , ulster protestants are very definately centre right

were SF as big down here , the country would be very different than northern ireland

I am sure Syriza voters had similar delusions.

tayto lover

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

About 1/4 of those who voted FG at the last GE have switched allegiances to SF.

I seriously doubt that.

valor rorghulis

Didn't vote for them last time but I think they have been extremely brave in backing Fine Gael on decisions which needed to be made.

Will transfer to them in the next election so long as they don't promise anything too mental

BoJack Horseman

tayto lover wrote: »

I seriously doubt that.

http://www.thejournal.ie/opinion-poll-politics-sunday-business-post-1952546-Feb2015/

However, it also found that 19% of those who voted Fine Gael are now planning to vote for Sinn Féin – which has gone up one point to 21%.

Icepick

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/opinion-poll-politics-sunday-business-post-1952546-Feb2015/

19% isn't about 1/4 but it shows how messed up the situation is after the fall of FF.
Would like to see how many of the 19% voted for FF in the past. I assume it would be quite a high number.