Why are some Western women converting to Islam?

DavidRamsay99

The phenomenon is absolutely bewildering to me.
Women who enjoy unprecedented freedoms in the West decide to convert to this violent lunatic religion which crushes their individuality and freedom and expects them to essentially become breeding mares.
Apparently a number of white European women have not only converted to this backwards faith but have joined ISIS.
What is the attraction?
This reminds one of the beautiful educated articulate young girls who were seduced by Charles Manson and somehow became his willing sex slaves before buying to his racist apocalyptic fantasy of Helter Skelter leading to the deaths of at least 7 people including Sharon Tate who was hung by the neck and stabbed to death.
How is it possible for educated intelligent people to buy into mind rotting superstitious garbage like Islam?
Is the thread of sanity so weak?
Were these women already psychotically deranged or psychopathic and only needed an outlet for their deranged minds?
Has it something to do with left wing denial of Islamic extremism and the suicidal pacifism of opponents of the war on terror who are opposed to any military action whatsoever against ISIS?
Are the jaw dropping idiots who call any critic of Islam "Islamophobes" at one end of a spectrum of appeasement and these moronic converts to Islam at the extreme end of the appeasement scale?
What is the psychology behind this profoundly disturbing and terrifying plague of conversion?

silverharp

I wouldn't read too much into it , out of a population group of tens of millions I'd imagine one could target 10's of people into doing just about anything.

DavidRamsay99

silverharp wrote: »

I wouldn't read too much into it , out of a population group of tens of millions I'd imagine one could target 10's of people into doing just about anything.

Remember that pretty American girl who married that scumbag who bombed the Boston Marathon? She converted to Islam for him and after his death apparently still a devout Muslim? What the absolute f*ck? She met him in a nightclub, dropped out of college, gave her ambitions to be an artist and married the freak. Unbelievable.

actuallylike

I think they portray an element of romance when 'seducing' them. The image of been a crusader against evil might be appealing to anyone a little weak minded. I don't pay much attention to it, just like i don't pay attention to women marrying serial killers.

DavidRamsay99

actuallylike wrote: »

I think they portray an element of romance when 'seducing' them. The image of been a crusader against evil might be appealing to anyone a little weak minded. I don't pay much attention to it, just like i don't pay attention to women marrying serial killers.

I read about Manson who was a pimp and conman and a parasite. He was just out of jail, he had grown his hair and beard, was strumming a guitar and a pretty girl who was working as a librarian in Berkeley was passing by and he got her attention. She gave up her job and her whole life, cutting off contact with her family and joined his cult. She took LSD and took part in group sex with the other women and men in Manson's family and even had his kid. She took part in the frenzied murders Manson and his girls were convicted of.

The parallels are weirdly similar with women who have had good paying jobs, loving families, highly educated, dating guys and so on who suddenly make this 180 degree conversion.

Is it self-hatred?

Yvonne Ridley, the left wing journalist who was kidnapped by the Taliban prior to 9/11 converted to Islam after her release and is now raving supporter of jihad.

eviltwin

Manson was known to be very charismatic, he was able to play whatever part he needed - lover, father, friend - to gain the trust of these women who were emotionally vulnerable. He was a master manipulator. And he was there, he was present in the lives of these women. I can't understand how these girls are able to make contact with these guys in the first place and then build that kind of relationship online. Travelling to the Middle East is an extreme example but I wonder at the western women who convert. What does Islam give them that's missing from their lives? Do they miss the freedoms the rest of us enjoy? And it's not just women, it's not an easy life for a man either. I can't understand the attraction.

kylith

I can't understand it either, why would an Irish woman give up everything for a religion that sees her as little more than chattel.

I think that they may feel there is something missing from their lives and somehow become convinced that Islam will give it to them. After conversion they've either drunk the Cool-Aid or they realise they've made a mistake but are afraid of admitting it since converting to Islam can often cause family tension and they can't stand the thought of the 'I told you so's from their family.

Or, as also happens, they meet a guy, they fall in love with him, he pushes for marriage, she says yes, this means she has to convert but no worries it's easy and it's not like he'll expect her to cover her hair and be a Muslim wife, except that occasionally that's what happens and by the time she realises she's in over her head she's married and pregnant/has kids.

Or they're someone who was wild in their youth and becoming radically conservative is sometimes a reaction to that, and you can't get much more conservative than Islam.

DavidRamsay99

Is there something in female psychology that means women can be open to having their individuality subordinated completely to male domination? Is it an evolutionary thing? The caveman violence of ISIS and jihadists contrasts sharply with the safety and security of Western civilization. If there was an economic collapse or some sort of nuclear disaster or natural catastrophe in the West that tore apart the threads of civilization it is likely that Western men would revert to barbarism and women being physically weaker would lose their hard won rights and slip into the traditional role women had for millenniums before first wave and second wave feminism. Perhaps some women are attracted to unreconstructed masculinity, the masculinity of the savage uncivilized world? Perhaps the appeal of Islamism as well as Nazism before it is that it seems to accord with law of the jungle with the strong ruling the weak? Democracy and human rights is far too intellectual and messy maybe? It's far too easy to give into bullies and bullying ideologies like Islam and other tyrannical systems? Perhaps these women want to return to an infantile state where Daddy made all the decisions and they could just play with their dolly and therefore they give up their freedom when a domineering man micromanages their life and they can just have babies without having to work or dress up or think for themselves anymore?

silverharp

50 shades of burka?

robindch

kylith wrote: »

Or they're someone who was wild in their youth and becoming radically conservative is sometimes a reaction to that, and you can't get much more conservative than Islam.

Reminds me of the sexist comment about "women who turn to god when the devil has no more use for them."

shruikan2553

Vulnerable people are the next best thing after children for getting your religion members.

Places under ISIS control would be perfect for right wing conservatives, no men getting married to each other destroying society, a place where gods law is the only law and no lefties to cause trouble. Not sure who gets blamed when something goes wrong though. That might cause problems as they are at risk of having to find a cause and solution to the problems that isn't the left.

kylith

robindch wrote: »

Reminds me of the sexist comment about "women who turn to god when the devil has no more use for them."

It applies to men too, of course, but this thread is specifically about women.

If you feel bad about being promiscuous when you were younger then a religion where 'slutty-ness' is so prohibited that you're essentially dressed in a blanket and you're not allowed to talk to men could be appealing.

If you feel bad about alcoholism then a religion where alcohol is totally forbidden would be appealing.

We know that religions are designed to prey on people's insecurities, so it's no surprise that Islam will appeal to some people whether because of the sense of belonging, a desire for structure and boundaries, a desire to abdicate responsibility, or some other reason.

pwurple

Perhaps a form of rebellion? I've heard it said that the teenage rebellious phase is possibly inbuilt to separate us from our parents, setting us off on our own adventures as adults. Previous generation rebelled against their conservative parents by getting a few tattoos, a haircut, maybe doing some recreational drugs. How do you rebel against liberal parents?

There's no greater rebellion against the liberal "secular west" that their parents might be a part of, than a conservative fundamentalist religion.

And there are plenty of males who also convert/head off to a miserable short life, so I don't see it as female only occurrence.

ScumLord

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

Is there something in female psychology that means women can be open to having their individuality subordinated completely to male domination?

Men are just as susceptible and we don't have the excuse of sexual attraction to justify our actions. Remember the vast majority of the members of these groups are men.

People are having problems with the modern lifestyle, there are people turning to religions and even running off into the forest to live in the wild.

Anyone who's been marginalised or feels like they don't fit in is susceptible to be taken in by a movement that will make them feel valued and give them something to be passionate about.

seamus

kylith wrote: »

I can't understand it either, why would an Irish woman give up everything for a religion that sees her as little more than chattel.

I think that they may feel there is something missing from their lives and somehow become convinced that Islam will give it to them. After conversion they've either drunk the Cool-Aid or they realise they've made a mistake but are afraid of admitting it since converting to Islam can often cause family tension and they can't stand the thought of the 'I told you so's from their family.

Or, as also happens, they meet a guy, they fall in love with him, he pushes for marriage, she says yes, this means she has to convert but no worries it's easy and it's not like he'll expect her to cover her hair and be a Muslim wife, except that occasionally that's what happens and by the time she realises she's in over her head she's married and pregnant/has kids.

Or they're someone who was wild in their youth and becoming radically conservative is sometimes a reaction to that, and you can't get much more conservative than Islam.

Maybe it's self-selection, but there always seems to be some backstory. Some reason why the life of a Muslim woman is more appealing than the life they had before.

It seems to me very often that the women have a young life of complete chaos - absentee fathers, a string of questionable boyfriends and stepfathers in their lives, flakey friends, a lack of direction. So a life where you have a definite position in the community seems nice.

Also notable are the number of former models who seem attracted to it. And in most cases it's not because they're attracted to the "dominating men" aspect of it, but rather the aspect where you're not continually treated as a object of desire and disrespected. Other issues aside, Islam does tend to promise to respect women. And if you've spent ten years half-naked bent over the bonnet of a sports car with creepy obese men taking photos of you, making crude comments and grabbing your tits, then a life where you wear non-revealing clothes and most men barely say two words to you probably seems like heaven.

You don't hear of very many successful businesswomen or scientists converting to Islam.

As said above, there doesn't seem to be the same stink made about men converting to Islam, and I wonder if that's partially a "tekkin or wimmin" response moreso than genuine concern for women's welfare.

Cabaal

kylith wrote: »

I can't understand it either, why would an Irish woman give up everything for a religion that sees her as little more than chattel.

Yeah it makes no sense,
And yet so so so many women will openly call themselves Catholic in Ireland and in Europe,

They actively want to be part of a religion that sees them as less then equal to a man. Yet if said to their face that they are less valuable and deserve less rights then men they'd likely be outraged.

When you consider that so many women see no issue calling themselves catholic and by extension willingly linking themselves to an organized religion that see';s them as inferior to men is it any wounder you'll have a percentage of women who will go a step further and sign up to the Islamic faith who see them as even less valuable in other ways and strip them of even more rights?

Shrap

ScumLord wrote: »

Men are just as susceptible and we don't have the excuse of sexual attraction to justify our actions. Remember the vast majority of the members of these groups are men.

People are having problems with the modern lifestyle, there are people turning to religions and even running off into the forest to live in the wild.

Anyone who's been marginalised or feels like they don't fit in is susceptible to be taken in by a movement that will make them feel valued and give them something to be passionate about.

I think this is the main reason. Let's not forget how radicalisation works - firstly by reinforcing the positives of giving up the "benefits" of western society that an individual may have been struggling with in their lives - alcohol, drugs, promiscuity, even independence. The person who turns them to Islam may have become the only support in their lives in whatever difficulties they are having, and the worldview that goes with this support could swiftly become more palatable than their own lives at home - the denying themselves of various freedoms could even become a passion, as ScumLord says. My father is fond of the saying "There's none more pure than the purified", and it's not just radical Islam that you see this with. Think of born again Christians.

It must be easy enough to fall into it of course, but far less easy to extract from once the reality sets in.

Also agree with whoever said there's less fuss about young men converting. I'd say though that the horror of it is more extreme with young women due to what we know about their subjugation in Islam, rather than the "They is takin ar wimmins".

recedite

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

..Has it something to do with left wing denial of Islamic extremism and the suicidal pacifism of opponents of the war on terror who are opposed to any military action whatsoever against ISIS?

Eh... no.
Do lefties deny Islamic extremism?
What has the right wing "war on terror" actually achieved? Is the middle east, or indeed any part of the world, now a better place following the destruction of (reasonably) civilised society in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq and Syria?

Saudi Arabia is part of "the coalition of the willing" fighting "the war on terror".
Have a read of this post.

ScumLord

Shrap wrote: »

of born again Christians.

Or ex-smokers. There is an innate need in people to spread information that they think is important or helpful. Just look at fad diets and things like fanboyism in games and movies. I've been guilty of it and I'd say most people go through it at some point in their lives.

There is no badness in it, generally people do it because they think it's the right thing to do, or at the very least for a greater good.

The fact is plenty of people like putting themselves through hardship, it does help you get in certain frames of mind and can help you see the world in a different light. I don't think there's anything wrong with living frugally or by removing yourself from the modern world. I can appreciate why people would want to do it and why it's appealing.

hfallada

You could also ask why do so many women convert to Judaism to marry their husbands? Their husbands are rarely practising Jews. There is no society pressure to do it, if they live in a place like the US. But yet so many women do it marry their to be husbands.

Some people when they genuinely care and love the person they want to marry. They will switch religions for them

Hotblack Desiato

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

this violent lunatic religion which crushes their individuality and freedom and expects them to essentially become breeding mares.

Catholicism?

BlaasForRafa

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Catholicism?

this even more violent lunatic religion which crushes their individuality and freedom and expects them to essentially become breeding mares :pac:

Chucken

robindch wrote: »

Reminds me of the sexist comment about "women who turn to god when the devil has no more use for them."

More sexist than posters in this thread referring to women as ''breeding Mares''?

Nodin

Chucken wrote: »

More sexist than posters in this thread referring to women as ''breeding Mares''?

Context - its a great man.

AngryHippie

It's because of men wearing skinny jeans.:(
try that in Mosul, you'll be picking stones out of your skull for months.:rolleyes:

robindch

Shrap wrote: »

Let's not forget how radicalisation works [...]

The same techniques of radicalization work in other countries, to similar ends. Here are a few members of the "VV Putin Appreciation Society" which showed up this morning on the Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2015/feb/27/vladimir-putin-teenage-fan-club-russia-president-young-devotees-in-pictures

If these photos are accurate -- and the amount of propaganda emanating out of Russia is completely overwhelming at this point -- it's interesting to see that most of them contain copies of one or two image of their hero smiling. Suggesting that either they're running short of promotional material (unlikely) or there's an amazingly short supply of images in which VVP smiles without looking as though he was enduring a rectal probe at the same time.

Shrap

robindch wrote: »

The same techniques of radicalization work in other countries, to similar ends. Here are a few members of the "VV Putin Appreciation Society" which showed up this morning on the Guardian

That's terrifying Am I right in thinking "My Ideology" is less like "My Booky Wook" and more like "Mein Kampf"?

(As an aside, I thought more of The Guardian's proof reading skills than this: "proudly wear T-shirts with his face on and pore over his TV appearances". Although, being teenagers, perhaps they do pore involuntarily at the sight of Putin?)

shruikan2553

He looks like he is saying "oh you" in all the pictures.

MaxWig

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

The phenomenon is absolutely bewildering to me.
Women who enjoy unprecedented freedoms in the West decide to convert to this violent lunatic religion which crushes their individuality and freedom and expects them to essentially become breeding mares.
Apparently a number of white European women have not only converted to this backwards faith but have joined ISIS.
What is the attraction?
This reminds one of the beautiful educated articulate young girls who were seduced by Charles Manson and somehow became his willing sex slaves before buying to his racist apocalyptic fantasy of Helter Skelter leading to the deaths of at least 7 people including Sharon Tate who was hung by the neck and stabbed to death.
How is it possible for educated intelligent people to buy into mind rotting superstitious garbage like Islam?
Is the thread of sanity so weak?
Were these women already psychotically deranged or psychopathic and only needed an outlet for their deranged minds?
Has it something to do with left wing denial of Islamic extremism and the suicidal pacifism of opponents of the war on terror who are opposed to any military action whatsoever against ISIS?
Are the jaw dropping idiots who call any critic of Islam "Islamophobes" at one end of a spectrum of appeasement and these moronic converts to Islam at the extreme end of the appeasement scale?
What is the psychology behind this profoundly disturbing and terrifying plague of conversion?

It's not that astounding.
I mean surely it's no more astounding than a lad from Westmeath, or Drimnagh joining the British Army?

What's the difference.

A cause, a belief, a mission, an ideology.
Most of us want, need or even crave one.
The idea that one is psychopathic, and another sane is naive.

The actions of IS are appalling to most - barbaric.

We've all heard the counter argument that US and Allied actions in the Middle East are possibly (probably) more barbaric.

Whether they are or aren't we should not be bewildered by the idea that three young girls were attracted to a cause that offered them a target upon which to aim their frustration/terror/anxiety.

robindch

Shrap wrote: »

That's terrifying Am I right in thinking "My Ideology" is less like "My Booky Wook" and more like "Mein Kampf"?

I haven't read it, nor am I likely to, but I'd imagine it's quite similar. Apart from a notably Chekist view of people, VVP has also apparently been strongly influenced by, or perhaps has used, an extraordinarily unpleasant Orthodox idealogue named Aleksandr Dugin whose ideology is hardline fascist in all but name.

Shrap wrote: »

(As an aside, I thought more of The Guardian's proof reading skills than this: "proudly wear T-shirts with his face on and pore over his TV appearances". Although, being teenagers, perhaps they do pore involuntarily at the sight of Putin?)

Secondary meaning - "to think intently, to ponder" - seems ok to me - and also a staple of Enid Blyton if memory serves - Julian endlessly poring over one map or another

Shrap

robindch wrote: »

Secondary meaning - "to think intently, to ponder" - seems ok to me - and also a staple of Enid Blyton if memory serves - Julian endlessly poring over one map or another

Ah jaysus And there's me getting it wrong for years. Sigh. Thanks! I should have stayed put in my blissful ignorance. Pride=fall, etc.