Killincarrig roundabouts

Gall chno

Would anyone have a final costing for the Killincarrig Roundabouts and also the cost of maintaining the flowerbeds at this junction?

Langerland

Guess you could try Wicklow CoCo?

Why? I think they have done a pretty good job. It's a much safer junction for pedestrians now.

Jimjay

Langerland wrote: »

Guess you could try Wicklow CoCo?

Why? I think they have done a pretty good job. It's a much safer junction for pedestrians now.

It looks much nicer. Not sure how safe it is to have a zebra crossing a few yards from a roundabout on a blind bend. I have already witnessed two near misses (drivers faults obviously but the layout doesnt help)

Langerland

Jimjay wrote: »

It looks much nicer. Not sure how safe it is to have a zebra crossing a few yards from a roundabout on a blind bend. I have already witnessed two near misses (drivers faults obviously but the layout doesnt help)

People will cross there anyway. Not much can be done about the layout of the two junctions. I like the way the crossings are very clearly marked and at night, the lighting is angled in a way that makes everything very clearly visible to a driver. I wish all crossings in the town were done in this way.

zanador

I think Tidy Towns maintain the flowerbed there, I have seen them on occasion.

poldebruin

Jimjay wrote: »

It looks much nicer. Not sure how safe it is to have a zebra crossing a few yards from a roundabout on a blind bend. I have already witnessed two near misses (drivers faults obviously but the layout doesnt help)

I agree, it's a terrible spot for a pedestrian crossing - don't forget, it's also quite a steep hill, and the car is frequently starting from a full stop (if that makes sense). Knowing it's the drivers fault is a small comfort to the poor sod that gets hit. Could they not have moved it just a bit further back to encourage people to cross at a safer spot?

Overall I like it though.

Shazerina

I agree that the crossing could have been put back a little from the exit off the roundabout. I have had to stop suddenly a couple of times coming off the roundabout and going up the hill for that pedestrian crossing. One day, it was pouring down. Visibility was awful. But a man walking a dog stepped out at the crossing - as was his right. I had to stop abruptly, on the hill, having just come around the roundabout from a stopped position. I wasn't going fast and had just made it into 2nd gear but I'm really lucky the guy behind me was paying attention and didn't go into the back of me.
Also, the number of people who are just driving over the roundabout rather than around it is crazy too.

Charlie-Bravo

What do you mean drive around it? Mini-roundabouts don't lend themselves much to driving around, it's more just for a right of way set-up i.e. give way to traffic from the right and then proceed to your desired exit.

Mitch Connor

astrofluff wrote: »

What do you mean drive around it? Mini-roundabouts don't lend themselves much to driving around, it's more just for a right of way set-up i.e. give way to traffic from the right and then proceed to your desired exit.

I see no reason why you could not go around the circle, rather than over it, other than you are going too fast. I don't think the angles are so tight to mean you need to go over the circle.

I also think the position of the crossings is dangerous, and will lead to a few tips at least.

loyatemu

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I see no reason why you could not go around the circle, rather than over it, other than you are going too fast. I don't think the angles are so tight to mean you need to go over the circle.

I also think the position of the crossings is dangerous, and will lead to a few tips at least.

They're mini-roundabouts, you're not supposed to go around the circle, they're just there to indicate right of way as Astrofluff has said. If they wanted you to go around, they would've built a proper roundabout.

zanador

loyatemu wrote: »

They're mini-roundabouts, you're not supposed to go around the circle, they're just there to indicate right of way as Astrofluff has said. If they wanted you to go around, they would've built a proper roundabout.

I don't think so - they put mini ones in places where they can't fit a big one, but you still need to treat them like a standard roundabout and go round rather than over.

Mitch Connor

loyatemu wrote: »

They're mini-roundabouts, you're not supposed to go around the circle, they're just there to indicate right of way as Astrofluff has said. If they wanted you to go around, they would've built a proper roundabout.

They don't have the room to build a bigger round about, and I see no reason to drive over them when there is ample road space around them. Why build a large enough road way around the circles if it is not intended that you use the road?

mrbrianj

I think you can now get penalty points for driving over mini roundabouts!

The pedestrian crossing is in a really bad place. Its dangerous for both drivers and pedestrians.

Jimjay

loyatemu wrote: »

They're mini-roundabouts, you're not supposed to go around the circle, they're just there to indicate right of way as Astrofluff has said. If they wanted you to go around, they would've built a proper roundabout.

They are roundabouts. just because they are painted on doesn't mean you can drive over them, they have the same rules as any other roundabout. As someone said you can get points for doing that.

One of the near misses i saw.

A car driving up mill rd turned left on to the kilcoole road, the car behind him waited for a car coming from the right which also exited on to the kilcoole rd.
The first car that turned left stopped at the crossing, the next car coming from mill rd saw the other car leave the roundabout to the left and entered the roundabout as the road to the right was clear. now as there isn't enough room for two cars the second car that was waiting for the crossing was left with his back end still on the roundabout causing the driver entering the roundabout to have to swerve to avoid hitting him. I presume his eyes were on the right and didnt register that the car he saw leaving the roundabout to the left had stopped.

loyatemu

Jimjay wrote: »

They are roundabouts. just because they are painted on doesn't mean you can drive over them, they have the same rules as any other roundabout. As someone said you can get points for doing that.

yeah looks like I'm wrong on that one.

One of the near misses i saw.

A car driving up mill rd turned left on to the kilcoole road, the car behind him waited for a car coming from the right which also exited on to the kilcoole rd.
The first car that turned left stopped at the crossing, the next car coming from mill rd saw the other car leave the roundabout to the left and entered the roundabout as the road to the right was clear. now as there isn't enough room for two cars the second car that was waiting for the crossing was left with his back end still on the roundabout causing the driver entering the roundabout to have to swerve to avoid hitting him. I presume his eyes were on the right and didnt register that the car he saw leaving the roundabout to the left had stopped.

the 3rd car should've waited for the roundabout to be clear. If he proceeds because he's anticipating the way will be clear but it's not, then it's his fault if there's a prang.

If the crossings were further away from the junction people wouldn't use them and you'd have pedestrians crossing there anyway which would be more dangerous. The crossings are well marked, drivers have to be cautious and assume there might be pedestrians.

One additional measure they could take would be to add rumble strips coming down the hill from Killincarrig.

Alun

loyatemu wrote: »

yeah looks like I'm wrong on that one.

Well, yes and no. Normal roundabout rules apply, but the reason they're built like they are and not with a solid island is that large vehicles like buses or trucks cannot in many cases go around them and so are allowed to drive over them, they have no other choice really. There's no explicit mention of them in the RotR that I can find, but the UK Highway code says ..

188
Mini-roundabouts Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Beware of vehicles making U-turns. Beware of others doing this.

Jimjay

loyatemu wrote: »

yeah looks like I'm wrong on that one.



the 3rd car should've waited for the roundabout to be clear. If he proceeds because he's anticipating the way will be clear but it's not, then it's his fault if there's a prang.

If the crossings were further away from the junction people wouldn't use them and you'd have pedestrians crossing there anyway which would be more dangerous. The crossings are well marked, drivers have to be cautious and assume there might be pedestrians.

One additional measure they could take would be to add rumble strips coming down the hill from Killincarrig.

absolutely the drivers fault but most crashes are, good road design can help but cannot make up for drivers not concentrating.

Charlie-Bravo

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I see no reason why you could not go around the circle, rather than over it, other than you are going too fast. I don't think the angles are so tight to mean you need to go over the circle.

I also think the position of the crossings is dangerous, and will lead to a few tips at least.

How do you know what speed I am doing and what I am driving?! If one can save the tyres and wear on one's car by not completing the excessive turning circle, then one shall road the road but still in a proper manner.

Ok, so what have we established: it's still a roundabout and should be treated as one!

Most drivers know to treat the mini-rounabouts in the same fashion as normal ones - the worst thing you can do is drive the wrong way around a roundabout. In essence I don't mean bee-line for your exit on the opposite side of the painted circle (which I don't) - if you do, then you're breaking the law if you do!

jpd

Not too much noise about the roundabout, please or someone will suggest putting traffic lights on it!

Shazerina

When is a roundabout not a roundabout?! I didn't expect my comment to generate a lively discussion! And I have learned a lot from reading!
I genuinely assumed/presumed that the same rules applied to these 'mini' roundabouts as do to 'mega' (?!) roundabouts... Otherwise, why bother putting them in place?

ckeego

The real question is why so much money,time and disruption was spent on this roundabout when the road leading down from Barry's Bridge looks like some stray artillery from the Glen of Imaal hit it?

The speed bumps outside the school are disintegrating and any time it rains the bus stop at the church floods and the road breaks up at the Delgany Hills estate entrance..

It is but a matter of time before a serious accident occurs because of the lack of upkeep on that road. The official concerned (see below) has admitted that there are now no funds remaining to address this

I have talked with the Area Engineer about this, the complaint has been logged-don't waste 15 minutes of your life on this guy-you won't get it back-one of the most arrogant,difficult untruthful pedants I have ever had the misfortune to talk to.:mad:

Langerland

ckeego wrote: »

The real question is why so much money,time and disruption was spent on this roundabout when the road leading down from Barry's Bridge looks like some stray artillery from the Glen of Imaal hit it?

The speed bumps outside the school are disintegrating and any time it rains the bus stop at the church floods and the road breaks up at the Delgany Hills estate entrance..

It is but a matter of time before a serious accident occurs because of the lack of upkeep on that road. The official concerned (see below) has admitted that there are now no funds remaining to address this

I have talked with the Area Engineer about this, the complaint has been logged-don't waste 15 minutes of your life on this guy-you won't get it back-one of the most arrogant,difficult untruthful pedants I have ever had the misfortune to talk to.:mad:

One could be dubious about the whole thing and suggest that the junction/roundabout was done to help shift that little development plot on the corner faster!!!

It did have to be done though. Even though, I also agree with your other points.

Zoo4m8

ckeego wrote: »

The real question is why so much money,time and disruption was spent on this roundabout when the road leading down from Barry's Bridge looks like some stray artillery from the Glen of Imaal hit it?

The speed bumps outside the school are disintegrating and any time it rains the bus stop at the church floods and the road breaks up at the Delgany Hills estate entrance..

It is but a matter of time before a serious accident occurs because of the lack of upkeep on that road. The official concerned (see below) has admitted that there are now no funds remaining to address this

I have talked with the Area Engineer about this, the complaint has been logged-don't waste 15 minutes of your life on this guy-you won't get it back-one of the most arrogant,difficult untruthful pedants I have ever had the misfortune to talk to.:mad:

Would that be Mr H ? If so I endorse your sentiments 100% and would love to add mine but I'm afraid if I did I'd be looking at a ban..:)

ckeego

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Would that be Mr H ? If so I endorse your sentiments 100% and would love to add mine but I'm afraid if I did I'd be looking at a ban..:)

Correct..
I kept it as calm and to the point as I could but boy, did I leave that conversation agog that an official could be so dismissive of a report that concerned the safety of others.

Zoe zebra

<<snip>>

darklordsbane

I drive a van and sometimes would have a trailor hitched to it, that junction is a nightmare, I have lost count of the times I have almost caused a crash, the road to Kilcoole seems to be the worst as you are leaving the roundabout someone walks out onto the pedestrian crossing, you have to stop, not only is the back of the van close to the roundabout the trailor is still on it, at least on the uphill exit towards Bray you have a clear siteline of pedestrians coming towards the crossing

RosieJoe

Article in the Bray People, link

The NTA are not happy with the current layout of the Killincarrig Roundabouts.

They are of the opinion that it is not compliant with the National Cycle Manual, according to district engineer Ruairi O'Hanlon.

'They are of the opinion that the roundabouts should be raised in order to ensure vehicles go around them rather than over them, thereby reducing speeds and making them safer for cyclists,' he said.

A proposed alteration to the design so that the roundabouts are more in keeping with the NCM has been submitted to the NTA for approval.

Mr O'Hanlon said that he expects the NTA will pay for the work

Charlie-Bravo

So, more taxpayer money to be spent. I don't think there is enough space on the mini-roundabout (nearest Kilcoole) to even have a raised section - It makes no sense. The slightly larger mini-roundabout is going to be run over by most vehicles larger than a hatchback (longer wheelbase cars and trucks) too.

loyatemu

I assume it'll be some sort of "domed" section rather than actual kerbs - so you'll still be able to drive over it (slowly) but you'll be encouraged to go around.

Charlie-Bravo

I know what the intention is however I don't think it's going to make much of a difference on the smaller roundabout. If a driver bee-lines it, a slight dome is not going to make any difference.

ckeego

RosieJoe wrote: »

Article in the Bray People, link

Funny that..
It is the same Mr. O'Hanlon that comes in for the criticism above.

<mod edit: no personal attacks please>

Going for Local Council?
You'll go a long way, my son..

Surely he is ultimately responsible for the upkeep and compliance of that road/junctions?

I would be a lot more worried about cars travelling over the poor surface of the remainder of the Barry's Bridge-Killincarrig road rather than the roundabout.

Should it not be compulsory for say a housing developer to resurface the road if they dig it up as part of wiring/plumbing for a new development/heavy construction traffic?

Charlie-Bravo

Hang on a second - this guy has only been in a few months for the Greystones area. How have you arrived at this conclusion so quickly?

ckeego

astrofluff wrote: »

Hang on a second - this guy has only been in a few months for the Greystones area. How have you arrived at this conclusion so quickly?

Far from a quick conclusion..

I was trying to contact him for weeks and when he did eventually return my call (claiming there was no record of my 9 previous calls, which I had registered time and date), he was extremely rude and dismissive of my safety concerns regarding the surface condition of that particular road.

It is an accident waiting to happen given there are pedestrians, cyclists and in particular school children using that road which resembles a dirt track in places.

What also isn't discussed here is the gross waste of money in digging up the Kilcoole Newcastle road to lay a foot path literally weeks after the road had been re surfaced..

Management? Responsibility?

I'm not sure how long your definition of a few months may be, but Mr. O'Hanlon has neither of the above.

A large percentage of his quotes in the Bray People are excuses..

Charlie-Bravo

Fair enough, you're entitled to air your recent experiences.

FWIW, what I have experienced since he's been there (since my first contact with him in November last) he's been engaging and proactive. The previous incumbent was not so engaging and proactive TBH.

Zoo4m8

astrofluff wrote: »

Fair enough, you're entitled to air your recent experiences.

FWIW, what I have experienced since he's been there (since my first contact with him in November last) he's been engaging and proactive. The previous incumbent was not so engaging and proactive TBH.

I'd agree, I wonder do we have crossed lines here? Ckeego's previous comments ,which I endorsed wholeheartly unfortunately as a result of bitter experience, I assumed related to the previous holder of Mr O'Hanlon's position.
While to date I have not dealt with him a neighbour has had reason to engage with him on a number of occasions and has found him to be exactly as you say.

lanciadub

Slightly off topic but can somebody please clarify whether the speed humps on the main street are in fact pedestrian crossings.
I can't count the amount of times people have just stepped out in front of me assuming they were in fact entitled to because in fairness they do resemble crossings in that they have a painted pattern, but there is no warnings (lights or signs) to motorists anywhere that they may be approaching a crossing.
With the pedestrian crossings and lights outside the station and supervalu I find it hard to believe that there are 2 or 3 more in a relatively short stretch of road.
Incidentally I also think that the roundabouts and crossings at killincarrig are an accident waiting to happen.
It's all very well discussing the rules of the road and right of ways but all it will take is an inexperienced driver to be too focused on traffic potential coming from the right and fail to see a pedestrian.
Thanks.

These two things have bugged me for ages 😢

pixbyjohn

The speed bump outside of The Burnaby is a particularly dangerous place. So many times people just walk across it thinking it is a pedestrian crossing. Some of these people don't even wait to see if it is safe to cross which is a requirement of a real and proper pedestrian crossing. The bump outside the southern side of Vino's should be obvious that it is not a pedestrian crossing because of the proximity of the lights controlled pedestrian crossing just a short distance further along.

Taltos

I know they're speed bumps but I treat them as crossings now and always approach with the thought that someone will step out. Only takes 5 secs to wave someone across and in fairness I'm a git for jay-walking myself...

Zoo4m8

Aren't these just paved strips, not even bumps apart the one outside Breretons.
There are four pedestrian crossings on the street, north of Fentons outside surgery , the two light controlled ones and the crossing at the south beach entrance, everything else is a figment of the careless pedestrian's imagination

Couldn't agree more re the Killincarrig roundabouts, I'd love to know the reasoning behind them. Heading towards Kilcoole from Delgany on Fri last driving a fairly large vehicle with a trailer behind, as I started to exit the last roundabout a lady walked onto the crossing, I had to stop on the roundabout with the trailer almost blocking the Greystones side, an unfortunate driver coming from Greystones and expecting me to keep going just barely avoided the trailer and in taking avoiding action almost collected a car coming the opposite way..and nobody was speeding..

artvandelay48

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Aren't these just paved strips, not even bumps apart the one outside Breretons.
There are four pedestrian crossings on the street, north of Fentons outside surgery , the two light controlled ones and the crossing at the south beach entrance, everything else is a figment of the careless pedestrian's imagination

Couldn't agree more re the Killincarrig roundabouts, I'd love to know the reasoning behind them. Heading towards Kilcoole from Delgany on Fri last driving a fairly large vehicle with a trailer behind, as I started to exit the last roundabout a lady walked onto the crossing, I had to stop on the roundabout with the trailer almost blocking the Greystones side, an unfortunate driver coming from Greystones and expecting me to keep going just barely avoided the trailer and in taking avoiding action almost collected a car coming the opposite way..and nobody was speeding..

Surely at this stage people should be making sure cars are stopping at pedestrian crossings before entering the crosswalk. I'd say there's only a 50/50 chance drivers will stop for pedestrians signalling that they're about to use the crossing

Langerland

artvandelay48 wrote: »

Surely at this stage people should be making sure cars are stopping at pedestrian crossings before entering the crosswalk. I'd say there's only a 50/50 chance drivers will stop for pedestrians signalling that they're about to use the crossing

Agree 100%. People need to take responsibility here. Drivers need to pay attention and be aware Pedestrian crossings with flashing ambers.

Pedestrians need to be aware that they don't step out onto a road at a pedestrian crossing until they are sure the drivers have seen them and are stopping (or stopped).

Cerco

Langerland wrote: »

Agree 100%. People need to take responsibility here. Drivers need to pay attention and be aware Pedestrian crossings with flashing ambers.

Pedestrians need to be aware that they don't step out onto a road at a pedestrian crossing until they are sure the drivers have seen them and are stopping (or stopped).

A pedestrian signals their intention to cross at a pedestrian crossing by stepping onto the crossing. Obviously they must have due regard oncoming traffic.

Drivers are not obliged to stop for a pedestrian who does not step onto the crossing. Most drivers will stop out of common courtesy if they believe someone wishes to cross.

pixbyjohn

More traffic calming madness at Killincarrig roundabouts this week. I pity the bus and truck drivers.

Alun

pixbyjohn wrote: »

More traffic calming madness at Killincarrig roundabouts this week. I pity the bus and truck drivers.

What have they done now?

Taltos

Put a safety hazard in place that appears to force buses to circumnavigate by mounting the footpath. Clear attempt at vehicular homicide - watch out if you've kids or are elderly. Random buses/trucks now having to use the footpath.

LEIN

Someone probably got paid a lot of money for that idea. :mad:

Taltos

LEIN wrote: »

Someone probably got paid a lot of money for that idea. :mad:

Ah - a sense of humour... Like it
Oh wait, you really weren't joking...

Zoo4m8

pixbyjohn wrote: »

More traffic calming madness at Killincarrig roundabouts this week. I pity the bus and truck drivers.

Absolutely, I'd love to know who gave this needless nonsense the go ahead and what it cost...meanwhile the main road to the harbour between Bradys and the harbour entrance is like a feckin' goat track...:mad:

legrand

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Absolutely, I'd love to know who gave this needless nonsense the go ahead and what it cost...meanwhile the main road to the harbour between Bradys and the harbour entrance is like a feckin' goat track...:mad:

You could try Derek Mitchel - but he'd probably respond with something about it being too much like hard work and besides the harbour development will be done in about 5 years and no point doing works now as it might impede Sisk from completing on time and come with a massive risk of overspend.

ckeego

Yes, another fantastic waste of money and lack of oversight.

The road from those roundabouts up to Delgany remains an absolute disgrace-potholes, disintegrating ramps, flooding-a death trap in waiting.

But hey!

We have got 2 shiny new built up roundabouts!

Also, at the new development of houses, how have the builders been allowed dig 3 trenches across the road and fill them in in a worse manner than a group of 3 year olds in a sand pit?

WHO EXACTLY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR GOVERNING THIS MADNESS???