Buildup: Ireland v England, 2015 6N

.ak

Build up thread etc., etc.

Any word on potential injuries to released players? Who reckons it'll be the exact same 23 again?

thomond2006

Zebo

vienne86

England

Fitz in with a chance of 23 shirt, I'd say.

total former

England

Can't see too much deviation from the 23 that played France; Murphy in for Heaslip obviously, with O'Donnell to bench pending concussion clearance. Could get interesting if TOD doesn't make it, isn't Diack injured too? Might then see McCarthy on the bench with Henderson as back-row sub.

Suppose the only other questions are:
- Healy to start? I think not yet.
- Reddan to replace Boss? 50-50 IMO.
- Jones to hold on to 23? Yes, I think so.

And of course, Zebo.

.ak

Totally forgot about Heaslip.

If TOD doesn't pass the test, who'll get the 20 jersey? Ryan? Diack? Ruddock?

total former

England

Comments from Luke Fitzgerald:

But in fairness, he (O’Connor) did say he’d give me a shot so I could get in the shop window with Joe. Joe mentioned it to him (O’Connor) and I mentioned to him (O’Connor) as well, that Joe was looking at me as primarily as a winger in there. I would say more as a utility option and cover on the bench for that centre spot.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/fitzgerald-impresses-as-he-responds-to-leinster-s-needs-1.2113168


Let the Zebo/Fitzgerald debate commence!

BoardsMember

That's interesting re Fitz. Would love to see him on the bench but imagine he'll stick with Jones. I'd say Healy will start, and he'll keep Boss on the bench too.

England

This is the most important match of the Schmidt era to date. /discuss

Sanjuro

England

Has anybody heard anything on Rhys Ruddock lately? At this stage he's 95% out of the game despite that we could really use him right now.

Otacon

total former wrote: »

Let the Zebo/Fitzgerald debate commence!

S12b

Sanjuro wrote: »

Has anybody heard anything on Rhys Ruddock lately? At this stage he's 95% out of the game despite that we could really use him right now.

I'd say he's 100% out of the England game. We don't even know if he will play for Leinster this weekend so I don't see anyway he could be involved with Ireland. It'a pity because his power would be a huge help against England.

clsmooth

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the most important match of the Schmidt era to date. /discuss

Nope. France in 6N finale last year. And arguably the game vs them last week with a view to the World Cup and burying some demons. But a win vs England would lay down a very large marker.

wittycynic

Would be hard to justify dropping Zebo for Fitzgerald, especially seeing as Zebo has done very well since coming into the team.

Zebo's fielding and kicking games are quite sharp and I think he's a fair bit stronger than Fitz in those two areas. He's also a bit pacier.

Would love to see Fitz come into the 23 jersey though. Offers a good bit more than Jones I feel, given that he is a highly capable wing and centre.

Interesting to note that Fitz was the 24th man for the France game.

awec

I reckon the only changes will be injury enforced.

FrannoFan

Ahh god no, Diack is going to be on the bench. If murphy steps in at 8 and ToD is injured it could happen. would rather pretty much anyone else.

stephen_n

England

Apart from TOD or whoever coming into the bench, I can't see any change, would like to see Luke or Earls ahead of Jones but just don't see it happening.


Are there any other injury concerns after the weekend?

Rigor Mortis

With Payne and Henshaw on the pitch it certainly would make more sense to have Fitz or Earls at 23 rather than Felix. This is purely based on cover, in fairness to Jones he has had a very good season.

its_phil

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the most important match of the Schmidt era to date. /discuss

I'd probably say that little game in Paris last year was a lot bigger.

blatantrereg

England

I put money on england to win it - but only to hedge my bets after backing ireland for the grand slam. I think Ireland will win.

clsmooth

England

clsmooth wrote: »

Nope. France in 6N finale last year. And arguably the game vs them last week with a view to the World Cup and burying some demons. But a win vs England would lay down a very large marker.

Agree, but if we don't beat France in the pool we're going to be in trouble one way or another to get beyond 1/4's (likely NZ).

For me I think beating England despite their injuries is the biggest single marker we can lay down between now and the RWC. This is a make or break cup final game and despite not being the last game of the tournament I do think it is the most important game of the tournament.

Neil3030

There's actually a few areas where there could be interesting calls.

I don't think our gameplan will be as based around kicking against the English back-three, so certainly a possibility that Earls/Fitz will get the 23 shirt.

I can also see Joe possibly mixing it up in the pack. We could certainly use Henderson's bulk against the English pack, as we give up 5-10kg per man in the back row. POM, Hendy and SOB would certainly be up for the scrap. Also, assuming TOD isn't cleared to play, I reckon we are stronger with Hendy starting in the back row, with Murphy and McCarthy benching, than Murphy starting in the back row, and Diack and Henderson on the bench.

There's also the matter of the front row - will Healy continue to bench? Will Ross continue to keep Moore out?

S12b

There's a lot of talk about England's injuries but for me, they're only missing 3 first team players in Lawes, Launchbury and Tuilagi. I'm not 100% up to speed with the English squad so I could be missing lads but I think their media are making a lot of it.....they might have a fair few injuries in the squad but they have the vast majority of their first choice team available to them.

S12b

Neil3030 wrote: »

There's actually a few areas where there could be interesting calls.

I don't think our gameplan will be as based around kicking against the English back-three, so certainly a possibility that Earls/Fitz will get the 23 shirt.

I can also see Joe possibly mixing it up in the pack. We could certainly use Henderson's bulk against the English pack, as we give up 5-10kg per man in the back row. POM, Hendy and SOB would certainly be up for the scrap. Also, assuming TOD isn't cleared to play, I reckon we are stronger with Hendy starting in the back row, with Murphy and McCarthy benching, than Murphy starting in the back row, and Diack and Henderson on the bench.

There's also the matter of the front row - will Healy continue to bench? Will Ross continue to keep Moore out?

With Jordi Murphy giving up 20kgs to Vunipola!! :eek:

total former

England

Mike Brown is a doubt with concussion too, he'd be a massive loss.

Lawes could be available, Parling too, but both will be short on gametime. Not sure when Tuilagi is due back but they don't seem to have missed him so far...

Rattlehead_ie

total former wrote: »

Mike Brown is a doubt with concussion too, he'd be a massive loss.

Lawes could be available, Parling too, but both will be short on gametime. Not sure when Tuilagi is due back but they don't seem to have missed him so far...

Although in fairness the loss of Brown against the Italians didnt exactly weaken the back line. 0_o

sydthebeat

England

This is definitely the most important hand of the championship. Winner takes all.

My thoughts on the game are going to yo-yo from miserable negativity (we can't buy a try) to narcotic over confidence (its a Joe team!) all through the week.

So ill probably be best not to post until the day of the game. .... at which point ill be a nervous wreck!

ssaye2

S12b wrote: »

With Jordi Murphy giving up 20kgs to Vunipola!! :eek:

Based on weights even Rhys would give up ~ 15kg :eek: and Henderson about 10

Neil3030

Actually, when was the last time we lost in the Aviv..... <remembers>.... never mind

redmca2

England

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the most important match of the Schmidt era to date. /discuss

Will Greenwood has tweeted:
The excitement ahead of the mega epic gargantuan Ireland England clash continues to build... @skysports

So obviously Sky Sports are playing it down

shamrock55

England

Is this on sat or sun?

.ak

Sunday.

aimee1

murphy in for Heaslip and maybe Healy in for McGrath. Dont see any other changes.

Lot of hype about england but i dont buy into it. Some of the tries against Italy were as much to do with weak defending which i would be confident enough in saying this Ireland team wont repeat, and one try given by the TMO was a dodgy decision. Italy also got in for 3 tries which were soft enough. That said they are a good team with good players.

Its a 50-50 call which will be decided at half back, ireland by 3-5.

.ak

Well, for me, they're both clearly the best two sides in the tournament, and there's little between them. You sort of felt home advantage pipped it for them last year, hopefully it'll happen for us this year.

Can't wait for this game. A lot of people went on about how lacking we were in terms of attack last year but for me it was just two brilliant sides defending very well, but it also produced probably the two best tries of the tournament.

If Ireland were Leinster then England are Clermont. As usual it'll be a tight affair with some brilliant rugby played.

Neil3030

.ak wrote: »

Well, for me, they're both clearly the best two sides in the tournament, and there's little between them. You sort of felt home advantage pipped it for them last year, hopefully it'll happen for us this year.

Can't wait for this game. A lot of people went on about how lacking we were in terms of attack last year but for me it was just two brilliant sides defending very well, but it also produced probably the two best tries of the tournament.

If Ireland were Leinster then England are Clermont. As usual it'll be a tight affair with some brilliant rugby played.

England are supposed to be the baddies!!

Curse you Lancaster!!

thomond2006

Neil3030 wrote: »

Actually, when was the last time we lost in the Aviv..... <remembers>.... never mind

Very disappointing. That loss to England in 2013.

aimee1

thomond2006 wrote: »

Very disappointing. That loss to England in 2013.

australia november 2013, a week before the NZ game which was called off.

Schecter01

If sexton is out that will be it

.ak

Schecter01 wrote: »

If sexton is out that will be it

Woah, why would he be out? :P

thomond2006

aimee1 wrote: »

australia november 2013, a week before the NZ game which was called off.

You're right. My apologies for my incorrect post above.

bilston

redmca2 wrote: »

Will Greenwood has tweeted:
The excitement ahead of the mega epic gargantuan Ireland England clash continues to build... @skysports

So obviously Sky Sports are playing it down

Imagine what they'd be like if they had the rights to the match...

total former

England

Stop the press!

Isaac Boss trained with Leinster today.

thomond2006

total former wrote: »

Stop the press!

Isaac Boss trained with Leinster today.

Reddan wasn't great for Leinster against Zebre, looked very rusty.

aimee1

thomond2006 wrote: »

Reddan wasn't great for Leinster against Zebre, looked very rusty.

wouldnt be too concerned. He got gametime and im sure training this week with ireland will be good enough to improve on that

total former

England

thomond2006 wrote: »

Reddan wasn't great for Leinster against Zebre, looked very rusty.

Yeah, he looked sluggish alright. I'd have thought Joe would have kept both of them in camp until later in the week at least.

D'Arcy and Strauss were also training with Leinster so it would appear he's keeping the national squad very small this week.

.ak

thomond2006 wrote: »

Reddan wasn't great for Leinster against Zebre, looked very rusty.

He's always the same for Leinster after a lay off. Has one crap game then usually follows it up with the game of his life.

Fireball07

Hope TOD makes it... the difference between Heaslip & Murphy/TOD is big, but there is also a fairly significant gap imo between those 2 and the next in line. Unless Ruddock is somehow available.

I'd love to see Henderson start but I don't really see much change- maybe Healy to start.

England

I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see Henderson & Healy start but I still think we will go for a more conservative pack and bring on unspeakable power in the second half.

I've said it before, but between 50 - 60 minutes the likes of Healy, Henderson, Moore, Cronin and maybe Fitz came off the bench you would be expecting fireworks.

vienne86

England

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

With Payne and Henshaw on the pitch it certainly would make more sense to have Fitz or Earls at 23 rather than Felix. This is purely based on cover, in fairness to Jones he has had a very good season.

I agree, but I think a lot of us would have thought that for the France game too.

Swiwi.

This will be an interesting test for Schmidt. If I put my pessimistic cap on, Ross is past his best, Best hasn't been near his best, McGrath is a bit suspect at scrum-time, POC after a wonderful autumn series has been a bit John Smit 2011-ish, Heaslip is injured, the midfield is solid in defence but lacks creativity on attack and the ability to give the wings space, and the gameplan has more than a hint of Jake White 2007 about it.

However, he's winning (as did White in 2007), and that's what counts.

But if the kick-chase game comes up short, will be interesting to see what Plan B is (Jones from the bench...), I doubt the maul will bring great yield v the English.

Brickbats my way if I've been too harsh...

.ak

Swiwi. wrote: »

This will be an interesting test for Schmidt. If I put my pessimistic cap on, Ross is past his best, Best hasn't been near his best, McGrath is a bit suspect at scrum-time, POC after a wonderful autumn series has been a bit John Smit 2011-ish, Heaslip is injured, the midfield is solid in defence but lacks creativity on attack and the ability to give the wings space, and the gameplan has more than a hint of Jake White 2007 about it.

However, he's winning (as did White in 2007), and that's what counts.

But if the kick-chase game comes up short, will be interesting to see what Plan B is (Jones from the bench...), I doubt the maul will bring great yield v the English.

Brickbats my way if I've been too harsh...

Well, the interesting thing for me is how much attention our "conservative kicking game" is getting. I suppose in international rugby if you play the same twice then you have an image. Yes, the Italian and French games did rely on a kicking game, but both were vastly different games. Then you can look back at the AI, all three games were played quite differently with only the South African game really boasting a kicking game.

We don't have to go back far to see yet another game plan in play - paris, and Italy before that. Neither conservative in their approach.

I'm not concerned about a kicking game, but one thing you can't say is the game plan from schmidt is limited. If he thinks a kick chase game is what will defeat England because he's seen a weakness then fine, but I have no fear of a plan b or even if we see a different method to skin them differently.

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

Well, the interesting thing for me is how much attention our "conservative kicking game" is getting. I suppose in international rugby if you play the same twice then you have an image. Yes, the Italian and French games did rely on a kicking game, but both were vastly different games. Then you can look back at the AI, all three games were played quite differently with only the South African game really boasting a kicking game.

We don't have to go back far to see yet another game plan in play - paris, and Italy before that. Neither conservative in their approach.

I'm not concerned about a kicking game, but one thing you can't say is the game plan from schmidt is limited. If he thinks a kick chase game is what will defeat England because he's seen a weakness then fine, but I have no fear of a plan b or even if we see a different method to skin them differently.

I'm kind of being devil's advocate, twisting people's legs. I honestly don't know which way this match will pan out - home advantage must count for something - but I would have some difficulty envisaging Ireland playing catch-up rugby if England got a 10 to 15 point head-start. Mind you, I could say the same for the English. Will be won on fine margins this game I imagine.