Is there any benefits learning Irish?

deadybai

Always have it in my mind to learn Irish but sometimes I think what is the point. Is it benefital to getting a job? Do you get some sort of certificate?
I wood love to go to some classes and speak it fluently but other than having a sense of cultural pride there wouldn't be much point unless there are proper benefits.
Anyone who learned Irish after school did you find it useful?

uch

Helped get me a Job in the Civil service,

sh1tstirrer

deadybai wrote: »

Always have it in my mind to learn Irish but sometimes I think what is the point. Is it benefital to getting a job? Do you get some sort of certificate?
I wood love to go to some classes and speak it fluently but other than having a sense of cultural pride there wouldn't be much point unless there are proper benefits.
Anyone who learned Irish after school did you find it useful?

Your last sentence is very true because even though we all spent 12 years learning irish going to school no one could ever speak fluent irish just from learning it in school.

obsidianclock

Disclaimer : I am English...

However I have a degree in linguistics.

I enjoyed studying Anglo Saxon... from a philological perspective its fascinating, I must say I didn't feel any more English for learning a few words for study purposes (purists may be aware that certain of our four letter words are in part inherited from Old English!)

Nevertheless I never felt it so vital a link to my culture that I wanted it displayed on road signs or taught to children in schools. Study for its own sake can be fascinating but anyone who has been a teacher will tell you that most kids struggle with basic English, let alone other languages.

If you were to learn a language I would have thought your time would be better employed mastering one you can travel a little further with e.g Mandarin or German.

That said, there is clear evidence that children who are raised bilingual find it much easier to learn further languages, so perhaps it's useful as a springboard to something more worthwhile!

obsidianclock

Anyone who thinks the Irish language is a vital part of their culture, out of interest in what language did Wilde, Shaw, Beckett, Joyce and Swift write?

Beckett is something of an exception in that many of his plays were penned in French. Anyone who wants to learn French, I'm happy to give lessons!

hullaballoo

The Irish language is part of our culture. There's no doubt about that.

The Irish language has words for things that have no English equivalent because Irish people do and say unique things.

obsidianclock

hullaballoo wrote: »

The Irish language is part of our culture. There's no doubt about that.

The Irish language has words for things that have no English equivalent because Irish people do and say unique things.

It's a part of your culture, in the same way that green post boxes are, it's not especially vital or necessary. Interesting from a linguistic perspective of course.

hullaballoo

obsidianclock wrote: »

It's a part of your culture, in the same way that green post boxes are, it's not especially vital or necessary.

Rather than getting into a discussion involving useless comparators, I'm just going to agree with you so that we can both happily enjoy being wrong together.

obsidianclock

hullaballoo wrote: »

Rather than getting into a discussion involving useless comparators, I'm just going to agree with you so that we can both happily enjoy being wrong together.

As an English speaker in that case, I demand you learn Anglo Saxon with me, or else you're betraying the culture of English speaking people everywhere... sigh.

hullaballoo

obsidianclock wrote: »

As an English speaker in that case, I demand you learn Anglo Saxon with me, or else you're betraying the culture of English speaking people everywhere... sigh.

Haha, yes I agree.

obsidianclock

hullaballoo wrote: »

Haha, yes I agree.

No doubt you think you're being very clever... oh dear.

Insect Overlord

obsidianclock wrote: »

No doubt you think you're being very clever... oh dear.

Take it easy. We haven't had to ban/card people on this forum in ages. No need to make this discussion personal.

Aard

OP, I learnt my Irish in school from a cery young age so maybe this isn't quite the perspective you're looking for.

Wrt Irish being useful for getting a job.... Unless you already speak the language, it'd be a huge effort to get to a level for it to make you more "employable". You might spend your time better upskilling in a different way.

That said, learning Irish can allow you partake in groups, media, and culture that might currently be inaccessible to you. Learning a language for its own sake can be very rewarding, especially if you have an emotional attachment to it.

It takes a long time and a lot of hard work to learn a language. Is it a waste of time if you give up halfway through? That's for you to decide based on your outlook on life!

obsidianclock

An File wrote: »

Take it easy. We haven't had to ban/card people on this forum in ages. No need to make this discussion personal.

Then don't, you have a choice!

FWVT

Firstly, on a pedantic point, it should be "ARE there benefits..." and "It WOULD ...", not "It wood...". Just some linguistic corrections on a language forum.

Anyway, I went through the whole ordeal that is "learning" Irish in school, and came out of the Leaving with an E and a complete hate of the language. The problem was, I wasn't taught it as a language, only a subject, so all the extra bull**** that came with it (old Irish poetry, etc.) that go now way towards teaching me how to speak modern Irish, put me and I'm sure most others off ever pursuing it.

Only a few years ago I regained my interest in it and like to listen to the likes of Radio na Life while in the car. I found myself picking it up again, this time in a relevant context, and have now found it interesting looking into placenames and how their Irish roots can reveal so much about their history, geology, etc.

So for me it is important to keep the language going on a personal level and help my kids to appreciate it as a language as I help them with their homework. They are already bilingual (Italian and English) and thisnhas helped them both to be top of their classes in Irish. Get them started early, well before the age of 10, when children's brains quickly lose the capacity to absorb new languages. We should be teaching a 3rd language (French, German, whatever) before that age and not only when they start secondary, when it's too late.

AnLonDubh

obsidianclock wrote: »

I enjoyed studying Anglo Saxon... from a philological perspective its fascinating, I must say I didn't feel any more English for learning a few words for study purposes (purists may be aware that certain of our four letter words are in part inherited from Old English!)

Really?

What is Old English for:

He used to hit me with the brown axe.

(I know for a fact that this sentence will be difficult to get right based off google (most programs don't include a small bit of grammar in this sentence), so only if you actually studied it will you know).

Nevertheless I never felt it so vital a link to my culture that I wanted it displayed on road signs

The analogy here isn't direct. When Irish sign law was written up, there were still hundreds of thousands of native Irish speakers and there still are native Irish speakers today. Old English evolved into Middle English over seven hundred years ago.

deadybai

Using my mobile. Didn't notice the auto correct changed would to Wood

4zn76tysfajdxp

obsidianclock wrote: »

It's a part of your culture, in the same way that green post boxes are, it's not especially vital or necessary. Interesting from a linguistic perspective of course.

Post boxes are very interesting from a linguistic perspective.

ComfortKid

FWVT wrote:

Anyway, I went through the whole ordeal that is "learning" Irish in school, and came out of the Leaving with an E and a complete hate of the language. The problem was, I wasn't taught it as a language, only a subject, so all the extra bull**** that came with it (old Irish poetry, etc.) that go now way towards teaching me how to speak modern Irish, put me and I'm sure most others off ever pursuing it.

** no** not now.
You go to the bother of correcting an obvious mistype and then do it yourself..

Manach

Well as it is an official EU language, pushing at work to get it into the localisation options in a software offering. Anyone know a good site for Irish IT terms

deirdremf

obsidianclock wrote: »

Anyone who thinks the Irish language is a vital part of their culture, out of interest in what language did Wilde, Shaw, Beckett, Joyce and Swift write?

With the exception of Joyce, where did all these people's forebears come from?

deirdremf

deadybai wrote: »

Always have it in my mind to learn Irish but sometimes I think what is the point. Is it benefital to getting a job? Do you get some sort of certificate?
I wood love to go to some classes and speak it fluently but other than having a sense of cultural pride there wouldn't be much point unless there are proper benefits.
Anyone who learned Irish after school did you find it useful?

Reaching fluency will take some effort, and depending on how much you learnt at school, could also take quite a bit of time. Only you can decide to what extent it is beneficial to you.

If you decide to learn it, aim at the TEG http://www.teg.ie/english.167.html

feargale

deadybai wrote: »

Always have it in my mind to learn Irish but sometimes I think what is the point. Is it benefital to getting a job? Do you get some sort of certificate?
I wood love to go to some classes and speak it fluently but other than having a sense of cultural pride there wouldn't be much point unless there are proper benefits.
Anyone who learned Irish after school did you find it useful?

OP, I'd say that you and you alone can decide if Irish is worth your while. Material benefits would be very limited, as would job prospects, though if you were lucky enough to get employment on the strength of your command of Irish with some body such as TG4 or the civil service, you would probably find the work very satisfying, with a good social side. But that presupposes fluency or near fluency in the language. Sadly many people have unhappy experiences of learning Irish, bad teaching, boring modules, corporal punishment etc..I had good and bad teachers. One in particular gave me a liking for Irish, and while it went pretty well by the wayside after school, my interest was rekindled later. The rest of my family have zero interest in it, and I don't move much in Irish speaking circles, apart from attending a very occasional local event and a trip to the Gaeltacht, such as it is, once in a while. My main link with the language is via radio and TG4. TG4 has some good stuff if you can take a political bias that has crept into it in recent years. It is a testament to its quality that my wife who has zero interest in the language tunes into it from time to time.

obsidianclock

deirdremf wrote: »

With the exception of Joyce, where did all these people's forebears come from?

Do you have a point to make sweetheart? If so I'd love to hear it.

obsidianclock

AnLonDubh wrote: »

Really?

What is Old English for:

He used to hit me with the brown axe.

(I know for a fact that this sentence will be difficult to get right based off google (most programs don't include a small bit of grammar in this sentence), so only if you actually studied it will you know).


The analogy here isn't direct. When Irish sign law was written up, there were still hundreds of thousands of native Irish speakers and there still are native Irish speakers today. Old English evolved into Middle English over seven hundred years ago.

Did you see the part where I said I learned only a few words?

I am sure you can appreciate the irony of boasting of your prowess at Old English when you seem to have sincere difficulty with even reading a short sentence in the contemporary version of our language.

Duke O Smiley

This crap annoys me.

Irish is part of our culture, like it or not, it is. It plays a paramount role in the national cultural identity and is priceless repository of all that is truly Irish. If you don't like it, fine, but don't demean the language and those who still make an effort because you think it is unimportant.

AnLonDubh

obsidianclock wrote: »

I am sure you can appreciate the irony of boasting of your prowess at Old English

I know barely any Old English and didn't say I did. The sentence just contains the main piece of grammar that one would study even a bit of Old English for (I have a book that gives as an example of a type of sentence one should know after studying Old English). If you don't know anything else than a few words, then you didn't really "study" Old English. It would be like saying you know "domus" is "house" in Latin means you "studied" Latin, i.e. your example was constructed to be as close to possible to the Irish situation. As in "Oh I studied the older language of my country also silly Irish people, but I didn't take it so ridiculously far, ha ha." The main purpose being, as the following show:

to have sincere difficulty with even reading a short sentence in the contemporary version of our language.

Do you have a point to make sweetheart? If so I'd love to hear it.

to be a total smart ass.

Insect Overlord

obsidianclock wrote: »

Do you have a point to make sweetheart? If so I'd love to hear it.

Take a week off.

dubhthach

obsidianclock wrote: »

Anyone who thinks the Irish language is a vital part of their culture, out of interest in what language did Wilde, Shaw, Beckett, Joyce and Swift write?

Beckett is something of an exception in that many of his plays were penned in French. Anyone who wants to learn French, I'm happy to give lessons!

What language did Merriman and MacFhirbsigh, Ó Conaire or Ó Cadhain write in? What a silly statement.

FWVT

This talk of Irish being part of our culture bothers me. A language is not part of a country's culture, but it bothers me that it is always thrown in there with the céilí, diddley-idle, currachs, thatched cottages, turf-cutting, pinta shtout stuff that is commonly referred to as our culture. Radio na Gaeltachta and TG4 cater mostly for this type of content, with very little contemporary ideas, apart from sport and the chart show. But turn on TG4 at primetime some evening and you have to watch some 86-yr old Páidín from Ballumuck doing a jig on a few planks of board, or some unknown guy from Connemara being interviewed about his life as a poet.

You don't see Catalans, Galicians, etc. only using their language in these contexts. It is used as an everyday tool and as such is absorbed into everyday contemporary life by everyone. Irish could be that way too if the media and especially the school structure used it this way.

I mo bhárúil anyway...

Duke O Smiley

FWVT wrote: »

A language is not part of a country's culture

I'm going to wholeheartedly disagree with you on that

pog it

Learning a language is hard.. people tend to just give up after a time or don't start at all. I've found the learning skills I gained from studying Irish to be very useful in other areas so there is more than just the language itself to be gained if you do go for it. You, or anyone, have nothing to lose if you do it in your part time over the space of a year. Do it well and you'd have a nice bit learned in that amount of time, which is nothing.

pog it

That said, over the past 5 years I have learned that in the main Irish people won't apply themselves to the language, however much they say or think they'd like to. Another barrier is people thinking they are already fluent from years of learning it in school. Most people are realistic about it and recognise they didn't learn much in school... others are completely convinced they just need to get back to it to get back to their former fluency It's ridiculous but easy to fall into the idea and I'm shocked at the amount of quite intelligent people who fall into that bracket.

4zn76tysfajdxp

FWVT wrote: »

But turn on TG4 at primetime some evening and you have to watch some 86-yr old Páidín from Ballumuck doing a jig on a few planks of board, or some unknown guy from Connemara being interviewed about his life as a poet.

I don't understand, what's wrong with that?

FWVT

Josephine Thankful Sack wrote: »

I don't understand, what's wrong with that?

Nothing, if it's balanced with other content that is not linked to our culture. Some programme on say world events, countries, etc. If you're not into a lot of what's on TG4 and R na G then why would you watch/listen to it? Variety is the spice of life.

I did love the series they had a few years back with one guy who travelled through many countries of the world, a bit like Michael Palin. More of that sort of thing, not just things related to the Gaeltachtaí. The clue is in the name...

Iwasfrozen

FWVT wrote: »

I did love the series they had a few years back with one guy who travelled through many countries of the world, a bit like Michael Palin. More of that sort of thing, not just things related to the Gaeltachtaí. The clue is in the name...

Didn't Hector do something like that years ago?

I think the problem is finding suitable characters from the limited pool of talented Irish speakers. To get someone with the charisma of Michael Palin and fluent in Irish would be tough find, if he exists at all.

aindriu80

learning irish broadens the mind and helps communication and is part of your culture (if you lived here for a while) that you can dig into.

feargale

FWVT wrote: »

A language is not part of a country's culture

How would you define culture?

FWVT wrote: »

but it bothers me that it is always thrown in there with the céilí, diddley-idle, [ what's that? ] ] currachs, thatched cottages, turf-cutting, pinta shtout [/B][ you from Dublin 4?][/B] stuff that is commonly referred to as our culture. Radio na Gaeltachta and TG4 cater mostly for this type of content, with very little contemporary ideas, apart from sport and the chart show. But turn on TG4 at primetime some evening and you have to watch some 86-yr old Páidín from Ballumuck [ he matters too ] doing a jig on a few planks of board, [ you know that there's a recession, and it wasn't caused by Pàidîn ] or some unknown guy from Connemara [ maybe the interview will render him known ] being interviewed about his life as a poet.

It's inevitable that much of TG4's content will focus on the few localities where Irish is the main community language. There is good stuff besides, but I would agree that it might do more to cover the totality of life. A highlight was the pre-general election debate in 2011 in which all three party leaders were able to participate. That was unprecedented and is unlikely to be repeated.

FWVT wrote: »

You don't see Catalans, Galicians, etc. only using their language in these contexts. It is used as an everyday tool and as such is absorbed into everyday contemporary life by everyone. Irish could be that way too if the media and especially the school structure used it this way.

Catalan is spoken by about five million people including about half the population of one of Europe's great cities. In fact, it has more speakers than many national languages e.g. Danish and Estonian. Galician also has many more speakers than Irish. The comparison leaks. Irish needs a city where the language is current. Galway filled that space 50 years ago ( Connemara people shopping etc. ) but less so today. You have a point about the way in which the schools have treated Irish in the past.

Iwasfrozen

aindriu80 wrote: »

learning irish broadens the mind and helps communication and is part of your culture (if you lived here for a while) that you can dig into.

1. Learning any language broadens the mind.
2. It doesn't help communication unless the other person also speaks Irish, and doesn't speak another mutual language (usually English)
3. It was part of pre famine Irish culture but since then it has been usurped by English. English is much more part of our culture than Irish.

Gaelgangnuis

obsidianclock wrote: »

Anyone who thinks the Irish language is a vital part of their culture, out of interest in what language did Wilde, Shaw, Beckett, Joyce and Swift write?

Beckett is something of an exception in that many of his plays were penned in French. Anyone who wants to learn French, I'm happy to give lessons!

Does the fact that five Irish writers happened to write in English/French somehow reduce the relevance of Irish as part of my culture? There were and are plenty of writers in Irish too you know.

I'm not claiming that English or 'an striapach allúrach' as one of our poets referred to it is irrelevant to our culture, but its not the only show in town either.

aindriu80

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

1. Learning any language broadens the mind.
2. It doesn't help communication unless the other person also speaks Irish, and doesn't speak another mutual language (usually English)
3. It was part of pre famine Irish culture but since then it has been usurped by English. English is much more part of our culture than Irish.

1) Yip !
2) You can understand the gaeilgoir, one language usually leads to another.
3) Nonsense, American is more part of our lives than English.

Iwasfrozen

aindriu80 wrote: »

1) Yip !
2) You can understand the gaeilgoir, one language usually leads to another.
3) Nonsense, American is more part of our lives than English.

2) The gaeilgoir probably speaks English though.
3) Agreed, but Americans speak English. I was talking language here rather than culture.

Iwasfrozen

Anyway to answer the thread topic, No. There aren't really any benefits of learning Irish specifically unless you're trying to impress a girl who's into it!

Insect Overlord

Learning the language opens up a huge trove of literature, philosophy and entertainment. I know not everyone is into poetry or prose or short films, but they're missing out on some amazing works of art in Irish.

shayno90

FWVT wrote: »

Nothing, if it's balanced with other content that is not linked to our culture. Some programme on say world events, countries, etc. If you're not into a lot of what's on TG4 and R na G then why would you watch/listen to it? Variety is the spice of life.

I did love the series they had a few years back with one guy who travelled through many countries of the world, a bit like Michael Palin. More of that sort of thing, not just things related to the Gaeltachtaí. The clue is in the name...

Hector Amú sa(n) ".." was the travel series where he went to every continent and did a travel review in the main cities. Last one was in Canada.

Another good series is "Woofáil", Worldwide Opportunities on Organic Farms, good blend of Donegal and Connemara gaeilge between the 2 presenters.

dubhthach

Woofáil is a good show, beats the hell out of the dreaded Man(a)chán and his pontificating. I see Ronan mac Aodha Bhuí has a new show where he's travelling around Africa, he's a gas character going off his radio show.

FWVT

shayno90 wrote: »

Hector Amú sa(n) ".." was the travel series where he went to every continent and did a travel review in the main cities. Last one was in Canada.

Another good series is "Woofáil", Worldwide Opportunities on Organic Farms, good blend of Donegal and Connemara gaeilge between the 2 presenters.

No, it was another older guy, around 4 years ago. I remember him in one case being in the mountains in Iran living with local people. A very interesting series, but I can't for the life of me remember the name.

lulu1

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

Your last sentence is very true because even though we all spent 12 years learning irish going to school no one could ever speak fluent irish just from learning it in school.

Dont know about that my son did his leaving cert last year. After the oral irish exam the examiner asked him were either of his parents fluent irish speakers, because his irish was outstanding. He got top marks in irish. But would he keep it up in collage. No way couldn't be bothered :mad:

shayno90

FWVT wrote: »

No, it was another older guy, around 4 years ago. I remember him in one case being in the mountains in Iran living with local people. A very interesting series, but I can't for the life of me remember the name.

Might it be a repeat of this travel series by Manchán Magan

http://www.manchan.com/pb/wp_250aa098/wp_250aa098.html

The Global Nomad: Middle East

davwain

When it comes to learning the East Slavic language, there is a benefit, at least for foreigners looking to naturalize as Ukrainian citizens. There may be benefits to learning Irish, and I still believe the language shouldn't be allowed to die out.

shayno90

davwain wrote: »

When it comes to learning the East Slavic language, there is a benefit, at least for foreigners looking to naturalize as Ukrainian citizens. There may be benefits to learning Irish, and I still believe the language shouldn't be allowed to die out.

Focus is on promoting Irish language learning rather than Irish versus another language.

As SNAG is swing at the moment, great opportunity to make the effort as many free resources made available for learning.

To echo some great reasons by other posters to learning Irish are appreciating literature written in Irish, enjoying radio and tv documentaries through Irish, passing on the language to your kids, family, being bilingual broadens your mode of thinking.