MKIV Set visits Connolly

The_Wanderer

Evening all,

As part of the project to clear MKIV sets for the Belfast Line, set 4001 was sent over to Connolly on Wednesday evening to Gauge Test Drumcondra and Platforms 2, 3, 4, 5 at Connolly. This upload also has a few images from Portarlington & Heuston earlier in the evening.

Click http://smu.gs/1zoFzvW to view.

The Wanderer.

Hungerford

I am a little confused - surely the MKIV sets can't cross the border due to the lack of TPWS? And it's hardly likely that Louth will trouble Croke Park soon. What's the point of this exercise?

goingnowhere

GAA + concert specials

Now cleared for Tralee, Limerick also

Captain Chaos

Thought the Mk4s were cleared into all Connolly platforms years ago during bogie the ride modifications carried out at the Vallet plant?

Captain Chaos

Hungerford wrote: »

I am a little confused - surely the MKIV sets can't cross the border due to the lack of TPWS?

Once a 0310 201 is hauling the set it has TPWS at the loco end anyway. Just the DVT needs the system installed. Looking at how quick they fitted it to 6 ICR cabs it does not seem to be a big job.

GM228

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Once a 0310 201 is hauling the set it has TPWS at the loco end anyway. Just the DVT needs the system installed. Looking at how quick they fitted it to 6 ICR cabs it does not seem to be a big job.

Drumcondra and Connolly were cleared years ago for empty sets but never for passenger use which requires distance between train and platform/carriage step height measured.

A set will be gauged to/from Malahide later this week with Dundalk to follow in due course.

GM228

end of the road

good. they should have been cleared years ago so the ICRS could stay on galway/limerick/westport/waterford/rosslare/sligo/tralee routes where they belong

Rashers72

Any updates on progress along the Northern Suburban line? Also will she be pulled in at the sidings at Malahide, additional platform at Clongriffen, and Skerries? Would be great if any of running was in daylight.

GM228

Rashers72 wrote: »

Any updates on progress along the Northern Suburban line? Also will she be pulled in at the sidings at Malahide, additional platform at Clongriffen, and Skerries? Would be great if any of running was in daylight.

All gauging will be done at night, Malahide tonight and next week will see Pearse, Docklands and Drogheda cleared (yes that's correct Docklands will be cleared).

GM228

dowlingm

end of the road wrote: »

good. they should have been cleared years ago so the ICRS could stay on galway/limerick/westport/waterford/rosslare/sligo/tralee routes where they belong

That's funny because there is an observation/opinion here which I long suspected before the DD refit began: 22s are suited to the Belfast run from a performance standpoint - http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/reply/59783/Enterprise-Watch#reply-59783

It will be interesting to see if the reason for this course change comes out. After all, Mark 4s could have been the call from day one saving the need to do the 22 requalification runs a year ago. Between this and Tralee there has clearly been a disturbance in the Force.

end of the road

dowlingm wrote: »

That's funny because there is an observation/opinion here which I long suspected before the DD refit began: 22s are suited to the Belfast run from a performance standpoint - http://irnirishrailwaynews.yuku.com/reply/59783/Enterprise-Watch#reply-59783

It will be interesting to see if the reason for this course change comes out. After all, Mark 4s could have been the call from day one saving the need to do the 22 requalification runs a year ago. Between this and Tralee there has clearly been a disturbance in the Force.

oh definitely. i think they have finally realized they should be clearing their diesel trains for as much of the network as possible. in saying that, they won't be down the WRC, the sligo line, or the bottom of the pile lines like rosslare/lj waterford, not that they would be needed anyway, at this stage.

GM228

end of the road wrote: »

oh definitely. i think they have finally realized they should be clearing their diesel trains for as much of the network as possible. in saying that, they won't be down the WRC, the sligo line, or the bottom of the pile lines like rosslare/lj waterford, not that they would be needed anyway, at this stage.

Don't speak too soon, more routes are on the cards.

GM228

end of the road

GM228 wrote: »

Don't speak too soon, more routes are on the cards.

GM228

201s aren't allowed go south of arklow or longford though i thought.

GM228

end of the road wrote: »

201s aren't allowed go south of arklow or longford though i thought.

201s are cleared to Sligo and one visited Sligo two years ago.

GM228

end of the road

GM228 wrote: »

201s are cleared to Sligo and one visited Sligo two years ago.

GM228

oh right i never knew that. i know one did apparently visit rosslare via wellington bridge with severe restrictions and i think another went south of arklow under restrictions

GM228

end of the road wrote: »

oh right i never knew that. i know one did apparently visit rosslare via wellington bridge with severe restrictions and i think another went south of arklow under restrictions

Only one 201 as far as I know operated to Rosslare (Strand) whilst working a Waterford-Dublin cement a few years ago when there was engineering works affecting the normal route, as far as I know special dispensation was given as the 201 was required back in Dublin. Not sure of any other occassion.

A few years ago a 201 Push-Pull was allowed to operate between Waterford-Limerick Jnc on a Knock special, perhaps that is what you are thinking of.

GM228

end of the road

GM228 wrote: »

Only one 201 as far as I know operated to Rosslare (Strand) whilst working a Waterford-Dublin cement a few years ago when there was engineering works affecting the normal route, as far as I know special dispensation was given as the 201 was required back in Dublin. Not sure of any other occassion.

A few years ago a 201 Push-Pull was allowed to operate between Waterford-Limerick Jnc on a Knock special, perhaps that is what you are thinking of.

GM228

no not that as i didn't know about the waterford lj operation. did that 201 from rosslare go back to dublin via the DSE?

GM228

end of the road wrote: »

no not that as i didn't know about the waterford lj operation. did that 201 from rosslare go back to dublin via the DSE?

It did indeed, Waterford-Rosslare Strand-Dublin. 227 on 17.9.05.

GM228

SpaceTime

Knowing Irish Rail's history of using inappropriate vechicles on routes, they'll probably use it to supplement DART services...

GM228

GM228 wrote: »

It did indeed, Waterford-Rosslare Strand-Dublin. 227 on 17.9.05.

GM228

I'm reliably informed that 227 was on the Rosslare line twice, it worked a passenger train to the Europort late 90s/early 00s due to an 071 failure (it was at Shelton off an Ammonia), and also 234 worked a gauging run mid 90s hauled by a 141.

GM228

bg07

GM228 wrote: »

201s are cleared to Sligo and one visited Sligo two years ago.

GM228

http://www.irrs.ie/Journal%20171/171%20Drumsna.htm

Think the Drumsna bridge replacement a few years ago now allows for 201s on the Sligo line

John Denver

GM228 wrote: »

It did indeed, Waterford-Rosslare Strand-Dublin. 227 on 17.9.05.

GM228

GM228 would you take offence if I queried that?
Very trivial of me I know...

John Denver

GM228 wrote: »

It did indeed, Waterford-Rosslare Strand-Dublin. 227 on 17.9.05.

GM228

GM228 would you take offence if I queried that date?
Very trivial of me I know...

GM228

John Denver wrote: »

GM228 would you take offence if I queried that date?
Very trivial of me I know...

There was engineering works at Thomastown viaduct and also on Waterford-Limerick Jnc line so 227 was used to work the 15.20 Cement via Rosslare Strand (vice 2x141) as the 201 was required in Inchicore.

Just realised I have 17.9.05, that should be 17.9.04.

GM228

John Denver

GM228 wrote: »

There was engineering works at Thomastown viaduct and also on Waterford-Limerick Jnc line so 227 was used to work the 15.20 Cement via Rosslare Strand (vice 2x141) as the 201 was required in Inchicore.

Just realised I have 17.9.05, that should be 17.9.04.

GM228

I thought it was late 2003/early 2004 when the 201 crossed the South Wexford line due to the Cahir viaduct crash in Oct 2003 and CTC being rolled out and commissioned on the Waterford line early 2004 hence the 2 lines were closed.

I could be totally wrong now.

John Denver

During this period the Beet traffic went via Kildare in late 2003 and the cement traffic for Waterford came from Platin instead of Castlemungret down the DSE and across the South Wexford line in early 2004.

GM228

John Denver wrote: »

I thought it was late 2003/early 2004 when the 201 crossed the South Wexford line due to the Cahir viaduct crash in Oct 2003 and CTC being rolled out and commissioned on the Waterford line early 2004 hence the 2 lines were closed.

I could be totally wrong now.

The Cahir collapse had no affect on the Cements as they ran via Kilkenny as normal, they did run via Rosslare Strand during the mini-CTC work early 2004 and again a few months later for the Thomastown Viaduct work, the Thomastown Viaduct closure is when 227 was used.

GM228

GM228

GM228 wrote: »

All gauging will be done at night, Malahide tonight and next week will see Pearse, Docklands and Drogheda cleared (yes that's correct Docklands will be cleared).

GM228

Drogheda will be cleared for MkIVs this Sunday night I believe and I'm reliably informed that a daytime test run to Dundalk will operate some day next week enabling some photographic opportunities.

GM228

The_Wanderer

Evening all,

Last Wednesday, a MKIV set made another visit to Connolly and down the Newcomen Branch to Docklands.
Click http://smu.gs/1FH9MtO to view.

The Wanderer.

Captain Chaos

I see there are using a full 8 piece set for the testing, looked like a tight fit in Docklands station. Compared to other Mk4 set that returned to traffic last week or so that is a 7 piece.

The_Wanderer

2x8pce and 3x7pce sets currently operating.

As 8 is the standard formation all testing should be carried out with an 8 car set. Half a coach and loco off platform at Docklands.

Hungerford

The_Wanderer wrote: »

As 8 is the standard formation all testing should be carried out with an 8 car set. Half a coach and loco off platform at Docklands.

I wonder does this mean that the platform at Docklands will be extended or whether MKIV operations to that station will be limited to 7 car sets?

L1011

Docklands temporary planning permission is up soon so I doubt they'll do anything infrastructure wise for it

end of the road

L1011 wrote: »

Docklands temporary planning permission is up soon so I doubt they'll do anything infrastructure wise for it

they went for permenant planning permission for it i thought?

The_Wanderer

If Docklands ever sees a MKIV set again it be for stabling purposes only if it was on a Special into Connolly.

end of the road

no harm in making stations to be able to take them anyway. for the purposes of flexibility, something that seems to be lacking on todays railway in my opinion

SpaceTime

Is this the end of the "Cork Dublin Express" concept?

It was pretty good to have consistency on what is Irish Rail's busiest route.

end of the road

SpaceTime wrote: »

Is this the end of the "Cork Dublin Express" concept?

It was pretty good to have consistency on what is Irish Rail's busiest route.

god knows. it goes without saying i agree with you

Captain Chaos

SpaceTime wrote: »

Is this the end of the "Cork Dublin Express" concept?

It was pretty good to have consistency on what is Irish Rail's busiest route.

What do you mean is it the end. It ended years ago when the Mk4 sets began being put into storage and ICRs stared to take over the off peak Cork services.

It's only now recently that there are 5 Mk4 sets back and only 2 are at full strength, still down from 7 full sets that once operated every day.

SpaceTime

The main issue with them on the Cork services is a lack of power points at the seats and that they're starting to look quite tatty on board and need carpets replaced and some of the upholstery re-done.

I think the choices of materials inside are poor. The carpet are too light colour and wore remarkably quickly and the seats haven't really survived all that well either.

Hopefully, they get a bit of a 1st spruce up sometime in the near future or they'll start to look nasty.

Also none of the internal doors work anymore which is quite bizarre. The MK3s were similar, they managed to break all the internal doors somehow.

Jamie2k9

SpaceTime wrote: »

The main issue with them on the Cork services is a lack of power points at the seats and that they're starting to look quite tatty on board and need carpets replaced and some of the upholstery re-done.

I think the choices of materials inside are poor. The carpet are too light colour and wore remarkably quickly and the seats haven't really survived all that well either.

Hopefully, they get a bit of a 1st spruce up sometime in the near future or they'll start to look nasty.

Also none of the internal doors work anymore which is quite bizarre. The MK3s were similar, they managed to break all the internal doors somehow.

and the windows.

LXFlyer

Captain Chaos wrote: »

What do you mean is it the end. It ended years ago when the Mk4 sets began being put into storage and ICRs stared to take over the off peak Cork services.

It's only now recently that there are 5 Mk4 sets back and only 2 are at full strength, still down from 7 full sets that once operated every day.

To be fair we are now back to a situation where the majority of trains on Dublin/Cork are Mark 4 operated. Indeed, all of the Dublin/Cork services that connect at Mallow to/from Kerry are Mark 4 operated.


Out of a total of 14 daily services, 8 are Mark 4 operated Monday-Thursday, 9 on Friday, and 10 on Saturday.


On Sundays, out of 10 services, 7 are Mark 4 operated.

Captain Chaos

lxflyer wrote: »

To be fair we are now back to a situation where the majority of trains on Dublin/Cork are Mark 4 operated. Indeed, all of the Dublin/Cork services that connect at Mallow to/from Kerry are Mark 4 operated.

Out of a total of 14 daily services, 8 are Mark 4 operated Monday-Thursday, 9 on Friday, and 10 on Saturday.

On Sundays, out of 10 services, 7 are Mark 4 operated.

Except last Saturday when all Cork services bar one were all 8 piece ICRs.:pac:

IE management: "Alright lads, they are doing a bit of work on the track so put those heavy ass 201s away for the day to look good."

LXFlyer

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Except last Saturday when all Cork services bar one were all 8 piece ICRs.:pac:

IE management: "Alright lads, they are doing a bit of work on the track so put those heavy ass 201s away for the day to look good."

Given that there was a train every two hours rather than every hour, maximising capacity by using 8 piece ICRs seems like a sensible move to me.

end of the road

time for them to hurry up and put more cork services back to mark 4 so the ICRS can go back on the long distance routes they were intended for. no doubt though, they will end up on maynooth and m3 parkway services rather then capacity for waterford, and to fully operate sligo and rosslare services

end of the road

lxflyer wrote: »

Given that there was a train every two hours rather than every hour, maximising capacity by using 8 piece ICRs seems like a sensible move to me.

well, if they had enough to operate all long distance services without having to use the 29s half way across the country, then fine, use away

Jamie2k9

Except last Saturday when all Cork services bar one were all 8 piece ICRs.

IE management: "Alright lads, they are doing a bit of work on the track so put those heavy ass 201s away for the day to look good."

I can't really disagree with lxflyer on this one, 8 coach 22's delivered an additional 160 seats than Mark IV's operating excluding FC capacity.

As 8 is the standard formation all testing should be carried out with an 8 car set. Half a coach and loco off platform at Docklands.

On a general note, would IE allow Mark IV's operate in service if the loco or the DVT were off the platform at any station or does the full train have to fit?

SpaceTime

Question:

Were the MK4s not specifically EU funded for Dublin-Cork? i.e. high spec, full service intercity rail between the two main cities and the Dublin-Cork-Belfast route is marked down as a TEN (Trans European Network) priority route.

I'm a little confused about how IE seems to start moving fleet around like this when they're EU funded sometimes for certain key routes.

Jamie2k9

SpaceTime wrote: »

Question:

Were the MK4s not specifically EU funded for Dublin-Cork?

I'm a little confused about how IE seems to start moving fleet around like this when they're EU funded sometimes for certain key routes.

Yes but unless the EU paid 100% the costs which they didn't I don't they can dictate where they operate I expect or there will be some legal loop found if it was challenged.

Captain Chaos

lxflyer wrote: »

Given that there was a train every two hours rather than every hour, maximising capacity by using 8 piece ICRs seems like a sensible move to me.

I'm not knocking the use of ICR when they are the right capacity for the time, it was an in jest comment that the Mk4s were not used just cause.

Captain Chaos

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

On a general note, would IE allow Mark IV's operate in service if the loco or the DVT were off the platform at any station or does the full train have to fit?

The loco off the platform is fine, the DVT would be an issue with it being used to store bikes.

This is another issue of selective door opening not being spec'ed for or installed.

For example an 8 piece 29k just fit into platform 1 in Connolly and is used in service but the very last door is over the platform ramp so it can't be used. An unsuspecting passenger could have an unexpected drop if not paying attention.