Rathsallagh Closing?

Whyner

Heard this was due to close today bar a miracle

Smashing course, one of my favourites

Anyone know anything more?

Kevinmarkham

Whyner wrote: »

Heard this was due to close today bar a miracle

Smashing course, one of my favourites

Anyone know anything more?

Say it isn't so!
I agree, a lovely course... and Hooked 3 went to print on Friday, with Rathsallagh included.
I heard the members bought it early last year - where did you hear this, Whyner?

Benicetomonty

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Say it isn't so!
I agree, a lovely course... and Hooked 3 went to print on Friday, with Rathsallagh included.
I heard the members bought it early last year - where did you hear this, Whyner?

Brendan McDaid posted as much on FB. Unless a last minute deal done with the bank, the golf course is closing. Lovely track, a real shame.

shabalala

Last day was Sunday by all accounts?

ArielAtom

As Monty says Brendan McDaid posted it on his FB page. He was there on Sunday and said a last minute deal was all that would save it. Sad day, great track.

stitcheddepin

very sad day indeed. lovely design of a course, very picturesque too.

slave1

Damn, never got to play it, had it in mind for this year, sad to see

allybhoy

Very sad day, absolutely stunning course, had the pleasure of playing it half a dozen times. Wasnt hard to see though how they ran into trouble, Ive played it regularly in "peak hour" traffic, Saturday and Sunday mornings, and it was always relatively quiet, I can only imagine the maintenance costs associated with running the place.

Whyner

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Say it isn't so!
I agree, a lovely course... and Hooked 3 went to print on Friday, with Rathsallagh included.
I heard the members bought it early last year - where did you hear this, Whyner?

Same source as the lads, was chatting to Brendan last night

Unglika Norse

allybhoy wrote: »

Very sad day, absolutely stunning course, had the pleasure of playing it half a dozen times. Wasnt hard to see though how they ran into trouble, Ive played it regularly in "peak hour" traffic, Saturday and Sunday mornings, and it was always relatively quiet, I can only imagine the maintenance costs associated with running the place.

The fact that Tulfarris went into NAMA on it's doorstep, but continued to trade at greatly reduced rates on both the course and hotel fronts, is what caused the biggest problems for Rathsallagh and it's owners.

shamco

Unglika Norse wrote: »

The fact that Tulfarris went into NAMA on it's doorstep, but continued to trade at greatly reduced rates on both the course and hotel fronts, is what caused the biggest problems for Rathsallagh and it's owners.

Very true that's two courses very near to Tulfarris that have closed now but Tulfarris ploughs along paid for by the taxpayer. Nice course but unfair competition.

Golfgraffix

That is a shame, only played it once but liked it and found the staff really nice.

Kingswood Rover

Sad to see, i wonder how many members they had at the end, i can see some of the M 5O e rs heading for similar tracks Lisheen, Tulfarris and Royal Curragh and the more local members possibly to Baltinglass

Golfgorfield

A good few went to Palmerstown Stud, id imagine that might be the case again, but there is ample options in the Kildare/wicklow area.

downthemiddle

A genuine loss to the Irish golf scene. Rathsallagh was a genuine test of golf owned by a family who always tried to run their business in a fit and proper manner.
This is a double blow to some of the members who joined after Kilkea Castle closed. There was a sale agreed but the buyer pulled out and left the owners in an impossible position.
It's a shame to see such a good course fall by the wayside. You can only wish the members well and home they find new homes which they enjoy and bring them stability.

Unglika Norse

Golfgorfield wrote: »

A good few went to Palmerstown Stud, id imagine that might be the case again, but there is ample options in the Kildare/wicklow area.

Another one that shouldn't be there.

neckedit

Unglika Norse wrote: »

Another one that shouldn't be there.

may I ask why so?

Unglika Norse

Because it to was kept going by Nama, until sold.

neckedit

Unglika Norse wrote: »

Because it to was kept going by Nama, until sold.

Ok, but it has been bought and is now holding its own, employing people and putting money back into the countries coffers, through VAT and taxes.
I understand your point but, I'm glad its still open and the facility is being used as designed.

Unglika Norse

All the likes of these places are doing in the main are recruiting golfers from other clubs, there are very few new golfers coming into the game. If these courses had been closed the existsing players would have stayed in there own clubs such as Rathsallagh, who would have continued to employ people, pay VAT and their taxes without having had to deal with the hugely unfair advantage that these clubs got.

I would estimate that if every golf club in the country had no debt or had it's debts written off it would probably survive comfortably enough as it would then have to cut it's cloth to suit.

Anyway this argument has been probably done to death and is not going to change.

PARlance

neckedit wrote: »

Ok, but it has been bought and is now holding its own, employing people and putting money back into the countries coffers, through VAT and taxes.
I understand your point but, I'm glad its still open and the facility is being used as designed.

And it wasn't taking members from other clubs, thus forcing others to lose out big, while in Nama. It was just a green course.

neckedit

Unglika Norse wrote: »

All the likes of these places are doing in the main are recruiting golfers from other clubs, there are very few new golfers coming into the game. If these courses had been closed the existsing players would have stayed in there own clubs such as Rathsallagh, who would have continued to employ people, pay VAT and their taxes without having had to deal with the hugely unfair advantage that these clubs got.

I would estimate that if every golf club in the country had no debt or had it's debts written off it would probably survive comfortably enough as it would then have to cut it's cloth to suit.

Anyway this argument has been probably done to death and is not going to change.

Again I hear what your saying, But the Brothers who bought the site, entered a market at a very volatile time and adopted an aggressive pricing strategy to get the hold in the local market, and by all account are still improving the course and the surrounds. hopefully will keep it running and running successfully. BTW I am sad to hear of Rathsallaghs closure.

Unglika Norse

Yes, but it was being kept open at artificially low rates or whatever, which afforded it the oppourtunity to take from other clubs when it was picked up for what was probably a greatly reduced price compared to investment. Tullfarris incidentialy continues to trade not having been sold.

Unglika Norse

Yep, I am sorry to hear about Rathsallagh, They didn't invest huge money I believe, Just a family trying to improve their circumstances, to be caught in a crossfire.

downthemiddle

neckedit wrote: »

Again I hear what your saying, But the Brothers who bought the site, entered a market at a very volatile time and adopted an aggressive pricing strategy to get the hold in the local market, and by all account are still improving the course and the surrounds. hopefully will keep it running and running successfully. BTW I am sad to hear of Rathsallaghs closure.

Is it true that there has been a 50% increase in the annual sub this year?

neckedit

downthemiddle wrote:

Is it true that there has been a 50% increase in the annual sub this year?

sorry man I have no idea, I'm not a member. .......probably should of said that at the start.

yettie1701

Very sad to see Rathsallagh closing. I was a good course and well worth playing any day. I feel very sorry for the owners who will loose out massively. Also the staff who now find themselves out of a job. Lastly and not least the members who have stayed loyal to the club. They must be very frustrated to see other clubs trading in the area that if left to the market would have closed and Rathsallagh would have stayed open. If clubs close we will all see a jump in our annual sub and green fees because of reduced choice. What sort of price was the place for sale for?

Kingswood Rover

The whole NAMA thing while a pain in the arse for member owned clubs in that they have to compete against low price offerings as they kept these concerns going, it may well be the case that NAMA is going to save money for all of the citizens of the country as it may actually get back all of the money that the taxpayer has put in. As Spock says "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and i say this as a member of a club that is 7 fields away from one of these resorts.

Golfgorfield

downthemiddle wrote: »

Is it true that there has been a 50% increase in the annual sub this year?

Sub this year is €1000 for existing members.

New members paid €1500 for 2015.

Sub in 2016 is set at €1250.

Considering the amount of work being done on the course its good value.

bailey99

Rathsallagh was an absolutely cracking course, I played it twice and found it to be one of the best and most enjoyable parkland tracks I've played. Took a week holidays there with 3 buddies a few years back and played Moyvalley, Tulfarris, Rathsallagh, Esker Hills, Mount Wolseley and Macreddin and thought Rathsallagh was the best of the bunch. Fantastic course and very disappointing to see it gone.

dixiefly

shamco wrote: »

Very true that's two courses very near to Tulfarris that have closed now but Tulfarris ploughs along paid for by the taxpayer. Nice course but unfair competition.

What is the other course that closed?

Really sorry to see this, played the summer before last and it was a great course. It was so big that at times you felt that you had the course to yourself which is probably not a good aspect in a financial way.

newport2

shamco wrote: »

Very true that's two courses very near to Tulfarris that have closed now but Tulfarris ploughs along paid for by the taxpayer. Nice course but unfair competition.

The golf course and hotel in Tulfarris are making a profit and are not paid for by the tax-payer. I expect it'll be sold in the next 12 months or so. Different business model to most surrounding courses in that the hotel subsidises the course, as the course attracts guests to the hotel.

The only thing really paid for the tax-payer were the previous owners debts, which would have been the case whether Tulfarris closed or not.

Very sad to see Rathsallagh close though, it was a nice course.

shamco

South County went bust and the land reverted back to landlords

shamco

newport2 wrote: »

The golf course and hotel in Tulfarris are making a profit and are not paid for by the tax-payer. I expect it'll be sold in the next 12 months or so. Different business model to most surrounding courses in that the hotel subsidises the course, as the course attracts guests to the hotel.

The only thing really paid for the tax-payer were the previous owners debts, which would have been the case whether Tulfarris closed or not.

Very sad to see Rathsallagh close though, it was a nice course.

Yes but nearly every course that is in trouble would be viable if the government freed them from any debt they have

Timbertop

newport2 wrote: »

The golf course and hotel in Tulfarris are making a profit and are not paid for by the tax-payer. I expect it'll be sold in the next 12 months or so. Different business model to most surrounding courses in that the hotel subsidises the course, as the course attracts guests to the hotel.

The only thing really paid for the tax-payer were the previous owners debts, which would have been the case whether Tulfarris closed or not.

Very sad to see Rathsallagh close though, it was a nice course.

Sorry not true and misleading. Tulfaris is operated on behalf of / under contract to NAMA by a Hotel Operating Company. However rates certain insurances , major repairs, investments ( the Bank put in €100k worth of drainage in the first year ! ) are covered by NAMA / The Banks. Operators claim it makes an EBITA profit on Hotel operations.

newport2

Timbertop wrote: »

Sorry not true and misleading. Tulfaris is operated on behalf of / under contract to NAMA by a Hotel Operating Company. However rates certain insurances , major repairs, investments ( the Bank put in €100k worth of drainage in the first year ! ) are covered by NAMA / The Banks. Operators claim it makes an EBITA profit on Hotel operations.

What you say is true regarding initial investment in the drainage and possibly other things at the time, but that's no longer the case. Any money required for the course now comes from the hotel's expenses.

EBITA including the interest of the previous owners debts that are saddled to it? (Not being smart, I genuinely don't know this)

Timbertop

newport2 wrote: »

What you say is true regarding initial investment in the drainage and possibly other things at the time, but that's no longer the case. Any money required for the course now comes from the hotel's expenses.

EBITA including the interest of the previous owners debts that are saddled to it? (Not being smart, I genuinely don't know this)

The Hotel providing funds for the course is just a back channel from NAMA / the receivers.

newport2

Timbertop wrote: »

The Hotel providing funds for the course is just a back channel from NAMA / the receivers.

Seeing as NAMA own it, then you could definitely phrase it like that. Or it could just make business sense for the hotel to keep the course open, ie it would make less without it.

downthemiddle

yettie1701 wrote: »

Very sad to see Rathsallagh closing. I was a good course and well worth playing any day. I feel very sorry for the owners who will loose out massively. Also the staff who now find themselves out of a job. Lastly and not least the members who have stayed loyal to the club. They must be very frustrated to see other clubs trading in the area that if left to the market would have closed and Rathsallagh would have stayed open. If clubs close we will all see a jump in our annual sub and green fees because of reduced choice. What sort of price was the place for sale for?

1,500,000 euro apparently.

dwd

Very sad to hear it's gone, really enjoyable course in a beautiful setting but I'm not surprised to hear it either. There are so many courses in north Kildare / east Wicklow region which it had to compete against, most of which have much better access and a large population center near at hand to support a membership base. I think it was just that to bit far from Dublin, ~50 mins from the Red Cow to have members from the city and even without the pressure of a subsidized Tulfaris 15 mins up the road it would have struggled to survived with the number of people playing the game declining the way it is at the moment, I'm afraid we're probably going to see more courses go this way over the next few years.

If they were looking for 1.5m for the course it's hard to see how you could make a return on your investment when you take into account the running costs of the course, considering the whole of Palmerstown estate was sold for the price of farmland in North Kildare, with a golf course, club house and estate house thrown in for free, and it's 25 mins closer to Dublin, any course saddled with a large debt or which doesn't have a big local population could be in serious trouble.

BigChap1759

Very sad news, used to play it regularly when I was a nomad with an open fairways card in my pocket - lovely course

tigerwood1

Absolutely devastated to see this course close, it must be the 1st really top grade course to close, will really mis playing the 10th and the 12th which was a unique hole. unfortunately the writing was on the wall for a while now with no membership offer forcoming at end of last year i toke the opportunity to play it knowing that it would be possibly be the last.

It was my favorite parkland course and being only 20mins drive away was a bonus. I think a big downfall for this course was a lot of people seem to think it was further away from dublin than it actually was (only 40mins from red cow) but also the catchment area has too many courses for a relatively small population. I believe with closure of kilkea castle a few years back it helped there membership a little but is hard to believe this magical place is finished as golf course, i still think there is a possibility of this course being resurected if the wright person with lots of cash takes a shine to it. Anybody got samuel l jacksons number ?.

buttercup1608

is it gone for good or will there be a revival of the course under the original owners?

Shiraz 4.99

Once upon a time there was Rathsallagh, Tulferris, Kilkea Castle, Killerig & Mount Wollsley all withing a 30 minute drive of each other.
Baltinglass, Carlow & Athy weren't far away either.
Too much competition for a small enough population.
These places needed green fees & societies to survive, just not enough to go around, simple supply & demand.

Shiraz 4.99

buttercup1608 wrote: »

is it gone for good or will there be a revival of the course under the original owners?

and what of the restaurant & the hotel, are these still trading ?

Timbertop

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

and what of the restaurant & the hotel, are these still trading ?

Rathsallagh House Ltd is a separate entity to Rathsallagh Golf Club Plc with its own separate lands etc., it has a right of way through the Golf Course. The House has been in business since 1984 ( the Club since 1995 ) is unaffected by the closure of the Golf Club and continues to trade normally etc

tigerwood1

Great news I hear(via rathsallagh house Facebook page) that rathsallagh gc has been sold and the new owners expect to reopen as a golf course early next year.


Attached is couple of pictures back in early July of the 2nd fairway looking bk at tee from road and the 2nd green which was still being cut and 6th par 5. :rolleyes:

First Up

tigerwood1 wrote: »

Great news I hear(via rathsallagh house Facebook page) that rathsallagh gc has been sold and the new owners expect to reopen as a golf course early next year.


Attached is couple of pictures back in early July of the 2nd fairway looking bk at tee from road and the 2nd green which was still being cut and 6th par 5. :rolleyes:

I can see no such information on Facebook. Can you paste?

It would be good news.

Rackstar

First Up wrote: »

I can see no such information on Facebook. Can you paste?

It would be good news.

It's on the Ratsallagh country house page.

sydneybound

Yes it's on their Facebook page now. Can't believe someone is willing to pay over €1.5m for the land to make it back into a golf course. That's a lot in these times.

Thanks for posting the pictures Tiger. Wonder how long it will take the course to go back to normal, it looks like pretty rough farmland in the photos.

rrpc

Here's the statement from that facebook page:

Rathsallagh Golf Club ( a separate entity to Rathsallagh House ) - has been sold by tender to a private buyer. Located next to Rathsallagh House , the Golf course is set in beautiful parkland with thousands of mature tress, streams and lakes. The course was designed by Christy O’Connor Jnr and Peter McEvoy OBE and officially opened by Peter Thomson OBE in 1995.

The O’Flynn family who have been running the neighboring Rathsallagh Country House for the past 30 years are absolutely delighted with the sale, Joe O’Flynn said “we are really looking forward to working with the new owners of the Golf Club , it is hugely complementary to our own business at the House and is an integral part to the local economy, social life and tourism infrastructure here in West Wicklow “.

The sale was negotiated by Paddy Jordan of Jordan Estates and Ross Shorten of Lisney. The price was not disclosed but is known to have exceeded €1.5m. The new owner who lives in the County expects to reopen the course next year.

It's not just the land of course (although it's very sizeable at 274 acres) but there's a substantial clubhouse and presumably all the course equipment still there.