Texting cut off times?

NeptunesMoon

I run a small service business with no fixed schedule for jobs. i use contractors but know them well. I text one guy about work stuff including some notes for the next day at 22:15 off the pc, I never got a reply and wasn't sure if it worked from the pc so sent him a text at 23:45 asking if he got it and if everthing was ok for the morning and he went mad at me telling me not to be texting him at that time.

I asked my brother what he thought and he said you shouldn't text people about work past 6 or 8pm (where do these rules come from?) and it doesn't matter if he can put his phone on silent, that he shouldn't have to. I asked him does he have the same opinion on email and he said no that's different because you dont expect immediate response to email but you do to sms, but to me its the same given that phones can wake you with a new email just the same as they could with a text.

the work i give these guys is at all different times and some jobs will need special instructions and for them to be aware of certain things before setting off, or it could be something like me asking if they are free for another job that I just got confirmation of, or something as simple as me saying I've updated the job description with info.

So what's the view here, these are contractors, it's not like im texting employees saying they HAVE to come in at 9am the next morning when they thought they had a day off and if they don't they are fired. They know it's not a 9-5 job they are doing and know i don't operate that way and that I can work late into the night doing all the organisation. They can refuse jobs no problem if they are busy.

Is it a bit sensitive to be getting worked up about me texting late and should i listen to my brother that i shouldn't be texting these guys after 6 or 8 pm that sounds pretty molly coddling to me so thought i'd ask you folk :pac:

mikemac1

I'm with your brother, I would not be happy with texts past 8pm

If an employer was texting me at 23:45 looking for a reply I'd be hopping

The guys are contractors and rely on their phone for work so I'm sure then have a good one. Any decent phone can link to email and give a notification. Just put all the job details in an email and let the guys work from that.

If you need confirmation the guys are going to work tomorrow or the customer will be let down then call them, don't text and follow up for replies

NeptunesMoon

thansk for the reply. are you saying you'd be ok with an email and a phone call after 8pm but not a text? I'm not seeing the difference between email and text myself when it comes to disturbance and would consider a phone call far more disturbing myself, but maybe if others are agreeing with my brother, I'm missing something.

mikemac1

An email doesn't need a reply if the job is on and the instructions are clear

A phone call is you ringing up a self employed guy and offering him work, they will take the call

A text is you looking for a reply at a late hour, not everyone will be happy about it. Also ye could be texting like table tennis players back and forward about instructions. A 30 second phone call can solve what multiple texts cannot sometimes. Not saying you do this but sometime a quick phone call is better.

Maybe I'm wrong too, just my opinion also

pedronomix

Should this not be in After Hours?

cabla

I think the difference is that sending a TXT is like putting an urgent and read receipt on an email. If it was urgent perhaps it was justified but usually an email would go out after hours I'd imagine as it's something people can look at the next day, not immediately. There's more of an urgency with a txt and I feel like moving towards your personal time if it's after hours.

Having said that my boss emails up to 1 or 2AM and is back on them at about 5AM but these he isn't expecting to be answered until the morning. A txt is more like, please answer me now and almost impatient if something can wait.

It personally wouldn't bother me that much but I can see for others it would. People like to switch off especially at that time of night and an email would suffice even if it wakes them like a txt. Txt is moving into personal time as you're expecting a response, email isn't so much as it can wait.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Outside of physical emergencies, getting a text or a call - business or personal - after 10pm is not acceptable in my opinion

Whether you agree or not is fine, but, sorry, texting someone at nearly midnight chasing up the original text, is incredibly rude

Gloomtastic!

Had to check this wasn't a zombie thread from 2007!!

If a contractor was giving out to me about texting them about work, I'd be looking for a new contractor!

I'm self-employed, I'm on call 24/7. So are you!

Esterhase

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Had to check this wasn't a zombie thread from 2007!!

If a contractor was giving out to me about texting them about work, I'd be looking for a new contractor!

I'm self-employed, I'm on call 24/7. So are you!

If an employer was nagging me for text replies at midnight I wouldn't be long looking for a new employer.

Not every self employed person is happy to respond to work messages way outside their normal working hours. It is rude and intrusive to assume that someone will be ready to respond immediately to messages at all hours IMO, unless it has been agreed beforehand that 24/7 contact is OK.

Gloomtastic!

Esterhase wrote: »

If an employer was nagging me for text replies at midnight I wouldn't be long looking for a new employer.

Not every self employed person is happy to respond to work messages way outside their normal working hours. It is rude and intrusive to assume that someone will be ready to respond immediately to messages at all hours IMO, unless it has been agreed beforehand that 24/7 contact is OK.

But they're not your employer, they're your client. Big difference!

Graham

What did your contractors say when you asked them?

They probably have a much better idea about what's acceptable to them than a bunch of randoms on the interwebs.

Dog of Tears

NeptunesMoon wrote: »

so sent him a text at 23:45 asking if he got it and if everthing was ok for the morning and he went mad at me telling me not to be texting him at that time.

Fair dues to him,

Astounding that some people are so lacking in self-awareness that they both thought that to be acceptable in the first place or indeed need to start a thread, to have strangers on the internet tell them so.

Esterhase

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

But they're not your employer, they're your client. Big difference!

That's true. Still, a client that insisted on hassling me in the middle of the night is one I'd personally reconsider working with in future, unless they very much made it worth my while. Again, in an ideal situation acceptable contact hours would be agreed upon at the start of the relationship and stuck to.

Graham is right OP, find out what your own contractors think. They might all have different ideas about it.

Graham

Dog of Tears wrote: »

Fair dues to him,

Astounding that some people are so lacking in self-awareness that they both thought that to be acceptable in the first place or indeed need to start a thread, to have strangers on the internet tell them so.

That's rather a sweeping statement, I've known plenty of contractors who would be only too happy to get a text if it meant they had work the following day.

The only thing you can assume is every contractor is likely to have a different opinion so the best thing to do is ask them.

Riesen_Meal

I would have an issue if my boss texted my phone anytime after 9pm, but that's just me....

NeptunesMoon

to expand on it a bit more, I asked him for all invoices that he owed me as I needed them for my accountant so collected them that day, was speaking to him around 6pm and said I'd put the job details in the calendar later. About 5 invoices he owed me were missing so I text him at 22:10 saying the details for tomorrows job were updated to the calendar and that some invoices were missing and the invoices needed his address too and if he could bring them tomorrow and I'd see him in the morning and that was that. I never heard back so text him at 23:42 asking if he got it and was ok for the job tomorrow and he sent an angry text back but apologised in the morning.

anyway, that's all been dealt with, I'm just asking opinions on what people deem a fair time to text or not, mainly after hearing my brother's 6pm/8pm opinion, which certainly wasn't mine as I don't really see texts as intrusive and if I don't want to be disturbed I'll have my phone on silent, but like Gloomtastic, I'm pretty much on call 24/7 but if others deem it rude or intrusive I'll definitely take it on board, hence the thread

Slideways

Texting is for social communications.

IMO it is NOT acceptable in any way shape or form for business. Email or phone calls is what you should be doing

Graham

Slideways wrote: »

Texting is for social communications.

IMO it is NOT acceptable in any way shape or form for business. Email or phone calls is what you should be doing

Regardless of your opinion, plenty of businesses rely on text messages as a form of communication.

NeptunesMoon

Slideways wrote: »

Texting is for social communications.

IMO it is NOT acceptable in any way shape or form for business. Email or phone calls is what you should be doing

I get sms reminders for appointments from hospitals, physio clinics, confirmations from nct, parcel motel notifications usually around midnight and all other sorts of non social communication. It's only recently that more people (I'm not going to say most as I don't know the stats and I wouldn't be sure most people is correct) have a data connection and smart phone capable of receiving email, sms seems a perfectly reasonable form of communication for non urgent informative texts and besides this late night one, I text this contractor a lot with job info and he texts me back with job progress info etc too.

I'm conscious of not texting so late now but would have thought 8pm is still fair game to text someone until my brother mentioned definitely no later than 8, or maybe even 6 :eek:

Gloomtastic!

NeptunesMoon wrote: »

to expand on it a bit more, I asked him for all invoices that he owed me as I needed them for my accountant so collected them that day, was speaking to him around 6pm and said I'd put the job details in the calendar later. About 5 invoices he owed me were missing so I text him at 22:10 saying the details for tomorrows job were updated to the calendar and that some invoices were missing and the invoices needed his address too and if he could bring them tomorrow and I'd see him in the morning and that was that. I never heard back so text him at 23:42 asking if he got it and was ok for the job tomorrow and he sent an angry text back but apologised in the morning.

anyway, that's all been dealt with, I'm just asking opinions on what people deem a fair time to text or not, mainly after hearing my brother's 6pm/8pm opinion, which certainly wasn't mine as I don't really see texts as intrusive and if I don't want to be disturbed I'll have my phone on silent, but like Gloomtastic, I'm pretty much on call 24/7 but if others deem it rude or intrusive I'll definitely take it on board, hence the thread

Unbelievable! Why are you even thinking of using this guy again?

Mrs OBumble

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Had to check this wasn't a zombie thread from 2007!!

If a contractor was giving out to me about texting them about work, I'd be looking for a new contractor!

I'm self-employed, I'm on call 24/7. So are you!

But these so-called contractors are getting €12 per hour. You won't find many willing to do that.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/rct/determining-the-correct-employment-status-of-a-worker.html

From this and your other thread where you describe yourself as a boss, not a client.

Have a look at the above link and see where your drivers would fall according to revenue.

I wouldn't be impressed if my employer was texting me at midnight looking for paperwork.

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't be impressed if my employer was texting me at midnight looking for paperwork.

You might be ok with it if the paperwork was missing invoices preventing you getting paid when you expected.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

You might be ok with it if the paperwork was missing invoices preventing you getting paid when you expected.

The whole point of the thread was that the employee (contractor) wasn't ok with it...

Graham

Deleted User wrote: »

The whole point of the thread was that the employee (contractor) wasn't ok with it...

And none of us can speak for each of the contractors as clearly demonstrated by the diversity of opinion. That brings me neatly back to my original suggestion; ask the contractors.

NeptunesMoon

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/rct/determining-the-correct-employment-status-of-a-worker.html

From this and your other thread where you describe yourself as a boss, not a client.

Have a look at the above link and see where your drivers would fall according to revenue.

I wouldn't be impressed if my employer was texting me at midnight looking for paperwork.

They fit into the self employed category. I may give them work and tell them what times I'd like them to start, but they can refuse it just as easy as they can accept it depending on their schedule, I have a few guys and use whoever is free, it's far from an employer/employee relationship.

Fair enough - I reread the OP - and he should ask each person what they prefer.

The OP is showing a lack of social awareness though wondering if the contractor has a right to be annoyed.

He could have woken him up twice at that point for all we know.

NeptunesMoon

Graham wrote: »

And none of us can speak for each of the contractors as clearly demonstrated by the diversity of opinion. That brings me neatly back to my original suggestion; ask the contractors.

Given the diversity of opinions so far, I think this is the best choice. one thing I admit to is lack of preparation and information and agreements and dare I say it "contracts" :pac: I need to be clearer on what I expect and how I like things to be handled. Bear in mind the guys I use are friends so communication isn't always on a professional level either.

super_furry

You should be more organised so that you're not texting someone details for a job the next day at 10:15pm.

NeptunesMoon

he should be more organised that I'm not following up missing invoices he was meant to give me

Anyway, that's all been dealt with and I was just looking for what people thought were acceptable times.

In the same vein, I think 09:00 is too early to call a customer so don't do it, but plenty of people seem to think 09:00-17:00 is ok.

Idbatterim

Texting is for social communications.

IMO it is NOT acceptable in any way shape or form for business. Email or phone calls is what you should be doing

I deal with several hundred people in work at times, texting is absolutely critical. Not all people check their email frequently and there is more urgency to a text. Op in relation to your question, it depends entirely on the circumstance IMO, he didnt give you 5 invoices, you have to go chasing him up (while yourself under pressure due to meeting the accountant) tough s**t IMO, you might get people saying you should have contacted him earlier in the day or a day or two before, which you might in an IDEAL world, in an ideal world you shouldnt have to go chasing him up for invoices that he should be sending you.

He should have had the courtesy to reply to the text you sent around 10pm if he had seen it, you dont generally go texting at that time unless it is fairly urgent and you want to get an issue sorted...

Arbiter of Good Taste

NeptunesMoon wrote: »

to expand on it a bit more, I asked him for all invoices that he owed me as I needed them for my accountant so collected them that day, was speaking to him around 6pm and said I'd put the job details in the calendar later. About 5 invoices he owed me were missing so I text him at 22:10 saying the details for tomorrows job were updated to the calendar and that some invoices were missing and the invoices needed his address too and if he could bring them tomorrow and I'd see him in the morning and that was that. I never heard back so text him at 23:42 asking if he got it and was ok for the job tomorrow and he sent an angry text back but apologised in the morning.

anyway, that's all been dealt with, I'm just asking opinions on what people deem a fair time to text or not, mainly after hearing my brother's 6pm/8pm opinion, which certainly wasn't mine as I don't really see texts as intrusive and if I don't want to be disturbed I'll have my phone on silent, but like Gloomtastic, I'm pretty much on call 24/7 but if others deem it rude or intrusive I'll definitely take it on board, hence the thread

Was it absolutely crucial for you to have these Invoices? If not, then that's even worse. I could see if you were giving him job details and maybe weren't sure that he was even going to show up, but to text him about paperwork at a time when most people are asleep.....

cabla

I think it depends on the line of business also what is acceptable. An office job I think emails are the norm and acceptable. Txting is invasive of personal space. However by the nature of your work I'm not sure what the issue is with the guy. To be fair you probably should have given him the benefit of the doubt or else called him or txt him first thing in the morning to remind him. A txt at 11:45PM is a bit much to remind them about something that you could have done when he was up.

If he doesn't use emails well not sure how else you would communicate? Phone call isn't great either at that time.

Terri26

in my opinion there is a big difference between email and text. Firstly I don't always look into my email but I do texts. I have my email notifications always set to silent whereas my texts are not on silent.
why should my texts be set to silent when I use it personally in my own personal time. I would be annoyed too if someone did that to me but if it was for my own benefit (like you claim it was -getting paid) perhaps I'd be a little less annoyed. you should have contacted him earlier about it.

jimmii

With email a lot of people wouldn't get notifications for their business email and its expected that responses may only be during business hours with a text you are clearly trying to get the message to them as urgently as possible. I normally turn my data off over night so I can't get any emails but texts/calls will still come through in case of emergency.

Its a shame its taken a thread like this to get some activity round here!

doopa

NeptunesMoon wrote: »

I run a small service business with no fixed schedule for jobs. i use contractors but know them well. I text one guy about work stuff including some notes for the next day at 22:15 off the pc, I never got a reply and wasn't sure if it worked from the pc so sent him a text at 23:45 asking if he got it and if everthing was ok for the morning and he went mad at me telling me not to be texting him at that time.

Nevermind the timing of the mails - I'd be annoyed that someone checked in to make sure I got an email. That in itself seems unnecessary. Its hard to avoid the subtext - I don't trust you to have actually done the thing.

If we believe you that you weren't sure that it worked why didn't you text him immediately? Unless what you mean by 'not sure it worked' is 'he didn't reply instantly'. Again out of curiosity what made you think that the email didn't send?

cabla

doopa wrote: »

Nevermind the timing of the mails - I'd be annoyed that someone checked in to make sure I got an email. That in itself seems unnecessary. Its hard to avoid the subtext - I don't trust you to have actually done the thing.

If we believe you that you weren't sure that it worked why didn't you text him immediately? Unless what you mean by 'not sure it worked' is 'he didn't reply instantly'. Again out of curiosity what made you think that the email didn't send?

Doopa - no offense but maybe re read the OPs original remark. He didn't send any email firstly and secondly he sent a txt off the PC so therefore may have thought there was a technical issue.

BnB

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Unbelievable! Why are you even thinking of using this guy again?

Ahh to be fair - I would have agreed with you except for the fact that he apologised in the morning. You have to cut a fella a bit of slack for being a bit cranky at close to midnight

RE the overall point, anyone that thinks it is not ok to send a contractor a quick text at 10 or 11 o clock at night to remind them of something you need in the morning is not living in the real world. It would be different if he was ringing him expecting a half hour conversation but a text is very un-intrusive (if that's a word..!!!). And while close to midnight is very late, the OP wouldn't have been texting him again if he had sent a quick one word reply to the first text

doopa

cabla wrote: »

Doopa - no offense but maybe re read the OPs original remark. He didn't send any email firstly and secondly he sent a txt off the PC so therefore may have thought there was a technical issue.

Ok - I assumed he meant to say email since it was from the computer. Still it should be possible to turn on delivery reports (something I recommend the OP does) so one can tell if the message was received. Still - have there been technical problems in the past? At what time did the technical problem become apparent? The point stands - the second text feels unnecessary.

NeptunesMoon

I was using a pc app/program to send an sms that I hadn't really used before as I was copying text from a spreadsheet, a long text I sent describing what invoices were missing (had the details of the invoices) was split into about 6 different texts for some reason, it didn't give a delivery report and the first time I sent it, it didn't come out right, I sent him a message after saying "sorry that didn't come out right" and then sent it again and it didn't come out right, but it was more legible this time but still not formatted perfectly and I sent another message after saying I'd see him in the morning. None of which I heard back from so I sent another message later asking him if he got the other messages as I wanted to make sure he knew he still owed me the invoices as these were the last bits of paperwork I needed before handing in my 2014 books to the accountant.

Gloomtastic!

BnB wrote: »

Ahh to be fair - I would have agreed with you except for the fact that he apologised in the morning.

Missed that bit, but my opinion still stands.....

cabla

NeptunesMoon wrote: »

I was using a pc app/program to send an sms that I hadn't really used before as I was copying text from a spreadsheet, a long text I sent describing what invoices were missing (had the details of the invoices) was split into about 6 different texts for some reason, it didn't give a delivery report and the first time I sent it, it didn't come out right, I sent him a message after saying "sorry that didn't come out right" and then sent it again and it didn't come out right, but it was more legible this time but still not formatted perfectly and I sent another message after saying I'd see him in the morning. None of which I heard back from so I sent another message later asking him if he got the other messages as I wanted to make sure he knew he still owed me the invoices as these were the last bits of paperwork I needed before handing in my 2014 books to the accountant.

Is this not something you could have called him about in the morning? I thought you had sent one txt and that was it. No wonder he was a bit aggitated getting so many. You were conduction business at that time by the sounds of it rather than sending a reminder and probably thought the messages would keep coming if he responded.

All in all, to me sending a message is fine but time wise I'd look at the urgeny to be honest. Was it so urgent it couldn't have waited till the morning, do you think at 10:30 at night he was going to organize them if he hadn't done so already. A txt "hey sorry late message, job on x location x time" would have been ok, not "hey so x y and z invoices need to get to me" x 7 or 8 messages.

seventeen sheep

NeptunesMoon wrote: »

I was using a pc app/program to send an sms that I hadn't really used before as I was copying text from a spreadsheet, a long text I sent describing what invoices were missing (had the details of the invoices) was split into about 6 different texts for some reason, it didn't give a delivery report and the first time I sent it, it didn't come out right, I sent him a message after saying "sorry that didn't come out right" and then sent it again and it didn't come out right, but it was more legible this time but still not formatted perfectly and I sent another message after saying I'd see him in the morning. None of which I heard back from so I sent another message later asking him if he got the other messages as I wanted to make sure he knew he still owed me the invoices as these were the last bits of paperwork I needed before handing in my 2014 books to the accountant.

Ah seriously. No wonder he was píssed off.

You sent him a load of data split into six texts (and god knows what the formatting was like), followed by another text, followed by the first six texts again, followed by another text, followed by another text. That's fifteen text altogether, late at night!

As regards the job, you should have sent him an e-mail with all the details (way more suitable and user-friendly than sending large amounts of data via SMS) and you should have texted him apologising for contacting him so late, but letting him know that you'd e-mailed him, and could he please reply to confirm receipt. Or even ring direct to his voicemail to leave a message asking to confirm receipt.

As regards the paperwork - it's your own fault if you left it too late to get things together for your accountant. In future, I'd suggest that you don't pay until you've received a valid invoice, and keep your filing up to date as you go along.

pedronomix

Poor Pet!!